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My Grandpa disapproves of renegade Shepard


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#1
Hathur

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(Long story.. don't read if you're not interested in the real-life story of a WWII vet).

Some context:

1) My Grandfather has loved early science fiction since he was a kid.. and even to this day he still enjoys reading sci-fi novels (awesome grandpa) - though he gets them on audio version since his eyes are too old to read comfortably.

2) He's not a gamer, never played a game in his life.

3) He likes Mass Effect 1 & 2... I made FRAPS recordings of my playthroughs as a paragon and put them on dvds so he could watch them like a movie... he absolutely loves the universe and characters... he's seen the Mass Effect story through the eyes of a female Shepard (as that was my primary character).

4) He's always asking me "When's the next one coming?" (ME3) .. and when will I record / edit all the videos, lol (I edit out the combat, he doesn't care about gameplay stuff.. only dialogue and story).

5) He served as a private during WWII, he fought during the D-day invasion and landed on Juno Beach where nearly 1/2 his unit was slaughtered by German machine guns... lotta good Canadians died that day. He fought in no less than 42 seperate combat engagements during the whole war, he shipped home at the end of the European theater, after the Americans & Russians took Berlin and destroyed the **** regime.

So.... on to the story... I visit my grandfather for the holidays and bring my PC... he was urging me to show him some of the "other Shepard" in ME1 & ME2 (he meant Renegade Shepard, since he's only seen Paragon).

Gramps is quiet and watching intently as I go through several key and pivotal moments of ME1 and ME2, but this time showing him the Renegade paths instead... this goes on for a good 3 hours before he pats my shoulder and says "that'll do boy."

Looking back over my shoulder to him, I see a look of discontent on his face... I know that look of disapproval as well... knowing better, I remain silent while he quietly ponders, his gaze seemingly distant now.

He shakes his finger at the paused game, his tone now firm and lecturous. He seemed... pissed.

"We had ****s like that in the war, boy." He says to me angrily (whilst pointing at renegade Shep). "Commanding officers who behaved like that in the field often found themselves inexplicably alone in a field... your history books only tell you about the so-called 'glory', boy... they don't tell you that these soldiers were humans... with morale.. and fear... and when you treated free men like cattle, not all would take it quiet... the history books don't tell you of CO's who were mysteriously left alone in enemy territory... or found a bullet in the ass from an 'accidental' rifle discharge."

I listened on and on... Gramps was reliving some dark moments of the war.. he's often told me of the realities of war, how the men of the allied forces were far from noble and honorable like our history likes to portray them as... that evil men often lead our troops and not all troops put up with it... not all men were able to cope with being treated as cannon fodder (which is what our heroes in WWII were often used as).

He went on to explain how very few free-willed man would ever follow a commanding officer like Renegade Shepard... his casual dismissal of those around him, his borderline cruelty to others... his belief he is better than everyone and that everyone has to fall in line or be crushed under his boot.... Gramps always emphasized that the good leaders in the second Great War inspired their men - treated them like a good father would... firmly, but with care.

He said a CO never dismissed his troops' opinions, their fears... he encouraged them, listened to his men, always gave them hope they'd live to see 1 more day.

My Grandfather served first under a CO who was an utter tyrant.. treated his men like garbage, like cannon fodder and was incompetent. No surprise most of the men under his command died in various battles - gramps got lucky and survived, one of only 8 remaining men who he landed with on Juno Beach (he was merged with a new unit when his original unit suffered over 90% casualties later on and he and a few men were all that were left).

His new commanding officer was night and day difference. Young (at the time), but bright... quiet, calm and collected. Gramps said he was a soft-spoken man who spoke reassuringly with his men during camp when he wasn't huddled over maps or on radio planning out the next day's actions or engagement. The men often voiced concerns, and the CO listened. He sat with his men during camp - listening to them... their fears, their hopes, their personal lives.... he got to know his men as people, not weapons.... and to the men, their CO felt like a human being - someone who cared whether or not they'd get turned to pink mist the next day (hit by artillery).

And gramps and the other troopers fought hard because they were inspired by their CO to do so... When they were given the order to hit a position - they did it with determined resolve and confidence that their CO wasn't sending them to die for nothing.. that their CO was looking out for them as best he could.

So when Gramps saw Renegade Shep, he was pulled back to a time where he saw leaders like that... and those leaders often got their men slaughtered... morale was always low, men didn't fight hard under that leadership... morale would break under those kinds of leaders (and this isn't documented in most war history either... that our troops were human, not superhumans who weren't capable of fleeing the field of battle when morale broke).

Gramps said good leaders who inspired the men under their command and treated them humanely, almost never ever had their units suffer morale failure even under severe casualties... they fought on, they fought hard.

He says that units in WWII that were labelled "lazy" or "troublemakers" were those that were lead by "jackasses"... leaders who knew nothing of motivating and inspiring men.... troopers turned "lazy" or into "troublemakers" because they were afraid of dying and didn't have any confidence they'd live to see another day if they went out into battle.... good leaders instilled hope and confidence even into the most cowardly of men.

When Gramps sees Renegade Shep... he sees those jackass leaders in WWII who did little more than get their men slaughtered.

Suffice it to say, he has no interest in watching any more of Renegade Shep heh.... he loved Paragon Shep because it reminded him so much of what the good commanders were like in the War... how important it was to have hope and inspiration in your darkest hour... and that hope came from good leadership.

Anyhow... sorry for the novel... but it was an emotional experience for me listening to his story... thought I'd share since it was ME related :)

(and no this is not a bashing on Renegade Shep... it's a game.. renegade shep is fine in a game... it was just interesting to hear from someone who knows what leadership means found the paragon Shep believable as a great leader, but not the renegade shep)

Modifié par Hathur, 24 décembre 2010 - 06:57 .


#2
marshalleck

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Who doesn't enjoy the good guy who always does everything right and saves everyone and always gets the best possible outcome from even the most impossible situations? Paragon Shep is basically Superman.

Modifié par marshalleck, 24 décembre 2010 - 06:35 .


#3
Loup Blanc

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Excellent post.

#4
DaewaNya

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Nice share. Thanks

#5
Hathur

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Oh.. on a related note... Gramps (a man who served in an all-male military, where female soldiers and leaders did not exist), found female Shepard totally believable... he had no trouble suspending disbelief that a woman could lead men into battle.



I personally find that very cool... since most people of his generation are stubbornly old-fashion in their thinking as to the role of women.

#6
Mister Mida

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Interesting read.

#7
Sashimi_taco

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I liked that input, gives me a new perspective on my paragon shep.

#8
Hathur

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marshalleck wrote...

Who doesn't enjoy the good guy who always does everything right and saves everyone and always gets the best possible outcome from even the most impossible situations? Paragon Shep is basically Superman.


Except Superman is real.... Superman was / is every leader who lead their men in war with competence, grace and compassion for their men. It's no coincidence those are the fighting men who won those wars, because they were spurred by good leadership to fight hard enough to win it.

The "bad guys" were the tyrants who lead their men, whipped them like dogs and treated them like expendable ammunition.... these men only cared about survival - living to see another day... they had no reason to care about victory and only to pray to live to see home... nobody wants to fight if their leader doesn't care they're alive and just as likely to shoot them for insubordination as they are to order them to run into a hail of bullets.

#9
marshalleck

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Hathur wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Who doesn't enjoy the good guy who always does everything right and saves everyone and always gets the best possible outcome from even the most impossible situations? Paragon Shep is basically Superman.


Except Superman is real.... Superman was / is every leader who lead their men in war with competence, grace and compassion for their men. It's no coincidence those are the fighting men who won those wars, because they were spurred by good leadership to fight hard enough to win it.

The "bad guys" were the tyrants who lead their men, whipped them like dogs and treated them like expendable ammunition.... these men only cared about survival - living to see another day... they had no reason to care about victory and only to pray to live to see home... nobody wants to fight if their leader doesn't care they're alive and just as likely to shoot them for insubordination as they are to order them to run into a hail of bullets.

Superman is a comic book character.

#10
Sammuthegreat

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Your grandpa sounds awesome. Interesting stuff, that. I prefer the paragon options for the most part myself - usually I only choose renegade options on my main Shep when the person I'm talking to is just being a rude ass and it seems the best way to deal with it.

#11
Arken

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Cool story.

Edit: So...if you played as female Shepard...did you romance Kaidan or Liara?:whistle:

Modifié par Arken, 24 décembre 2010 - 06:51 .


#12
Guest_Ms. Lovey Dovey_*

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Your Grandpa is one of my heroes :3

#13
SSV Enterprise

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Hah, that was an entertaining and insightful read. Quite interesting to see an opinion of the Renegade/Paragon system from a World War II veteran. What he says makes sense, both in real life and in the game -- after all, Renegade Shepard's service background is supposed to be taking out the pirate base on Torfin, where he got most of his unit killed.

On a side note -- my great-grandfather was a World War II veteran.  A good man, and he had some fine stories of his own while he was here on Earth.  It will be a sad day when there are no more of that noble generation left.

Modifié par SSV Enterprise, 24 décembre 2010 - 06:49 .


#14
Zall

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It's one of those stories you remember for the whole life. Thank you.

#15
Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams

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Hathur wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Who doesn't enjoy the good guy who always does everything right and saves everyone and always gets the best possible outcome from even the most impossible situations? Paragon Shep is basically Superman.


Except Superman is real.... Superman was / is every leader who lead their men in war with competence, grace and compassion for their men. It's no coincidence those are the fighting men who won those wars, because they were spurred by good leadership to fight hard enough to win it.

The "bad guys" were the tyrants who lead their men, whipped them like dogs and treated them like expendable ammunition.... these men only cared about survival - living to see another day... they had no reason to care about victory and only to pray to live to see home... nobody wants to fight if their leader doesn't care they're alive and just as likely to shoot them for insubordination as they are to order them to run into a hail of bullets.


That may be true of men who value their own survival over the cause. Some men understand that they are expendable.

#16
Hathur

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marshalleck wrote...

Superman is a comic book character.



Superman is just a manifestation what it means to be a hero... you don't need comic books to find heroes... any hero can be called a "superman" (or "superwoman")... the comic book character doesn't hold a monopoly on the term :)

Modifié par Hathur, 24 décembre 2010 - 06:54 .


#17
NvVanity

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Very interesting perspective on Renegade Shepard. You're grandfather must be a great man.

#18
marshalleck

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Hathur wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Hathur wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Who doesn't enjoy the good guy who always does everything right and saves everyone and always gets the best possible outcome from even the most impossible situations? Paragon Shep is basically Superman.


Except Superman is real.... Superman was / is every leader who lead their men in war with competence, grace and compassion for their men. It's no coincidence those are the fighting men who won those wars, because they were spurred by good leadership to fight hard enough to win it.

The "bad guys" were the tyrants who lead their men, whipped them like dogs and treated them like expendable ammunition.... these men only cared about survival - living to see another day... they had no reason to care about victory and only to pray to live to see home... nobody wants to fight if their leader doesn't care they're alive and just as likely to shoot them for insubordination as they are to order them to run into a hail of bullets.

Superman is a comic book character.


Superman is just a manifestation what it means to be a hero... you don't need comic books to find heroes... any hero can be called a "superman" (or "superwoman")... the comic book character doesn't hold a monopoly on the term :)


Except I am specifically referring to Superman the comic book character as representing a juvenile world view where such nonsense heroics are not only possible, but commonplace. Personally I find the Paragon playthroughs to be unrealistic and downright insulting to my intelligence. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 24 décembre 2010 - 06:53 .


#19
The King of Dust

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Even on my renegade playthrough, I'm always nice to my squad. Only have a single renegade character, and she always ends up with her paragon bar at least half-filled. I can't stand leaders who treat their men like crap either.

#20
Ryoko

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Your grandpa sounds almost as cool as MY grandpa! :P

#21
C9316

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Epic Grandpa is Epic.

#22
RinpocheSchnozberry

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Good stuff, OP!

#23
Guardsman234

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I agree with C9's statement

#24
HappyHappyJoyJoy

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Great story.

Thank your grandfather for serving for me.

#25
Arken

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marshalleck wrote...

 Personally I find the Paragon playthroughs to be unrealistic and downright insulting to my intelligence. 


Why not play a mix of the two? Be nice when it's appropriate and mean when it's appropriate.