392 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

joriandrake wrote...

I myself also saw some action and I would also shoot anyone commaning the troops who I consider a jerk or moron which endangers the people and the mission for no reason.

Dude, statements like this is the only reason a commanding officer should need to send your to your death on the first possible occasion.

joriandrake wrote...

it is better to keep grudge inside until the perfect time to act.

Or until someone on a gaming forum makes up a story about his Grandpa.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 27 décembre 2010 - 04:04 .

[Mako Zalos]

I thank you and your Grandpa for this post.

[Aidoru Kami]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

I myself also saw some action and I would also shoot anyone commaning the troops who I consider a jerk or moron which endangers the people and the mission for no reason.

Dude, statements like this is the only reason a commanding officer should need to send your to your death on the first possible occasion.

joriandrake wrote...

it is better to keep grudge inside until the perfect time to act.

Or until someone on a gaming forum makes up a story about his Grandpa.

Why do you believe it's made up? He himself defended Renegade Shepard and said that he doesn't have a problem with it. It would take a helluva lot of effort to make up an entire story like that just to say "I don't like Renegade Shepard" on a video game forum. The OP seems smart enough to know that opinions won't change anything.

Anyway, it was a good and interesting read.

[thetruefreemo]

I kinda wish that my grandfathers were still alive to see what I like about ME.

[joriandrake]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

joriandrake wrote...

I myself also saw some action and I would also shoot anyone commaning the troops who I consider a jerk or moron which endangers the people and the mission for no reason.

Dude, statements like this is the only reason a commanding officer should need to send your to your death on the first possible occasion.

joriandrake wrote...

it is better to keep grudge inside until the perfect time to act.

Or until someone on a gaming forum makes up a story about his Grandpa.

Many major events started or ended with the death of a commander/ruler killed by its own troops for good reasons, say what you want but this fact doesn't change, actually if it weren't true USA would still be british which may not even be bad.

People like you make me wish we wouldn't be in NATO and EU would be more independent with a proper, own army.

Aidoru Kami wrote...

The OP seems smart enough to know that opinions won't change anything.

Yep, unlike Zulu

As it seems he is adamant in thinking he is the expert on knowing what is made up or true. Also, only his opinion matters obviously.

[joriandrake]

thetruefreemo wrote...

I kinda wish that my grandfathers were still alive to see what I like about ME.

Heh, mine liked fantasy games, he loved Baldur's Gate and Jade Empire, but was no fan of Sci-Fi

[Zulu_DFA]

Aidoru Kami wrote...

Why do you believe it's made up?

I don't say that every word there is made up. It's quite possible that OP's Grandpa is indeed a WWII veteran, who landend at Juno Beach on the D-Day and has a few war stories to tell, including some comparing good COs to bad COs. And maybe these days he even enjoys watching recorded ME playthroughs...

But it all simply does not connect together. Mostly because even the "worst"renegade Shepard does nothing that a "bad" CO would do, which would include, but would not necessarily be limited to:

1. Using expletive and slur words while addressing his subordinates.
2. Physically abuse them.
3. Busy them with drills, physical exercise and pointless work just to make sure they are busy.

And in any case, such mean officers usually have their own appeal among the troops, unless they demonstrate some sort of incompetence in the war trade per se. Especially when the enemy is real and dangerous.

[Legbiter]

Cool story. Thanks for sharing.

[Conestoga Joe]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Mort Walker, James Arness, Charles Durning, Mel Brooks, Hal Holbrook, Ed Koch and George Bush Sr. are all over 80, WWII Veterans and are still active. Even Hugh Hefner was a writer in WWII and look at what he's still doing.
Gene Roddenberry and James Doohan were also WWII vets and were involved in Sci Fi, before they passed away.
So why can't Hathur's grandpa have an opinion on Sci Fi?
I'm confused.

You seem a little confused, dude. No one said old people can't enjoy sci-fi. That has nothing to do with them being interested in and understanding hours of recorded video game conversations. Nice strawman, though.

[Zulu_DFA]

joriandrake wrote...

Many major events started or ended with the death of a commander/ruler killed by its own troops for good reasons,

Many major events never came to be because a commander/ruler pushed on despite all the dissent among his troops. Unless you count the executions of dissenters as "major events", of course.

joriandrake wrote...

People like you make me wish we wouldn't be in NATO and EU would be more independent with a proper, own army.

Though luck. There was the US and the SU. They had the Cold War going between them. The US won and took spoils.

[Praetor Knight]

@ Conestoga Joe, I'm confused about your tone and intent from your other posts. And you have been attacking the OP.

Instead you could have easily wrote: I don't believe Hathur, I want proof that his Grandpa exists and that his "Grandpa" is not being used in an argumentum ad verecundiam.

And you seem to be arguing from reductio ad ridiculum, here are select examples:

Conestoga Joe wrote...

as cool as it would be if this story was true, it clearly isn't. Some fanboy is just trying to justify his opinions of the game by going "My grandfather says paragon is better than renegade and he was in World War II so he's right!"

Do you all honestly believe an 80-year-old man is watching recorded RPG conversations and not only enjoying it but understanding it thoroughly enough to discuss the same points 20-something video game nerds argue about on the Internet?

These aren't movies, people, no matter how cinematically they're presented. If you have no experience with video games, you're going to have very little interest in these characters, especially if your only connection to them is recorded gameplay footage of a third party exploring their dialogue trees. Do you really think someone in his eighties would be so intellectually engaged by watching cartoons with a handful of preset body motions and facial expressions talk at each other for hours?

Do any of you have any experience interacting with people from this age group?

That's not how old people talk. That's how young people imagine they talk.

Like I said, it'd be a cool story if it was true, but you people are acting as if this something so profound and awesome when it's just some guy taking you for a ride.

the OP is a faceless nobody. In my experience, when a stranger on the Internet tells you something that common sense says probably didn't really happen, most people don't decide to believe it anyway just because it would be cool if it was true. It's cool if you can read his posts and then honestly say to yourself, "Yeah, this probably did really happen," but it seems like most of the people in this thread are just posting kneejerk responses without any critical thought and could use a little perspective.

I raised a number of reasoned points why I believe the OP's story to be untrue. Do you dispute them? If not, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing, or because you don't want to accept that the story probably isn't true. Either way, what you've been saying has no bearing on any of the points I brought up.

I ask for a little perspective, please.

Thanks in advance.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 27 décembre 2010 - 06:56 .

[didymos1120]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Gene Roddenberry and James Doohan were also WWII vets and were involved in Sci Fi, before they passed away.

What's more, anyone with a passing familiarity with SF should know that the 1930s to early/mid 1950s (I think there was this one pretty famous war that happened somewhere in there too...) are considered the Golden Age of Science Fiction, and saw the invention of the space opera, a genre which Mass Effect very much is an example of.  It should hardly surprise anyone (with said passing familiarity) that a man of who grew up in that period and who read a lot of that stuff when it was all brand new would see a lot of it in Mass Effect, and would appreciate the story and worldbuilding as a result. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 27 décembre 2010 - 08:14 .

[Fates end]

interesting read. Thanks for sharing : )

[Inquisitor Recon]

How is renegade Shepard supposed to translate into stupid CO Shepard? I don't recall any "Commissar Shepard" renegade options ordering suicidal human wave attacks, I don't recall punching my crew for no reason. Shepard never freezes in combat or when he needs to make a command decision.

If anything renegade Shepard is closer to Patton than what the OP describes. This seems like a feel-good, renegade bash paragon topic.

The only clearly stupid renegade decision I can think of would be killing Wrex. Smart renegade Shepard understands Wrex is essentially a mercenary following him, not somebody under his command.

[The Smoking Man]

ReconTeam wrote...

I don't recall any "Commissar Shepard" renegade options ordering suicidal human wave attacks,

Actually...
A real renegade wouldn't do the loyalty missions, which causes the "suicide mission" to actually be a suicide mission.

Also, pure paragon and pure renegade are both equally stupid. Pure paragon has some kind of psychological disorder causing him to be too willing to trust someone/be too blindly optimistic (I'm positive there is such a disorder but the name of it escapes me), and pure renegade fits all definitions of a sociopath. However, when we have ME2 coming along that takes out the charm/intimidate skills and shoehorns you down the pure paragon or renegade paths, then we have a problem. I actually always give myself some extra paragon and renegade points whenever I start a new game so I can play the way I actually want to play, meaning making the most logical decision for the situation, not mindlessly going for the upper or bottom right options just so I can keep on top of my charm/intimidate ability.

Modifié par The Smoking Man, 27 décembre 2010 - 09:43 .

[J0HNL3I]

i just cant be renegade/evil on anything i just cant be the bad guy for some reason

[Karlojey]

Long post but worth it. If you're grandpa hates Renegade Shepard then that means the writers did a fine job.

[ObserverStatus]

A lot of renegade Shepard's decisions made sense to me, but this didn't seem necessary.

[Phaedon]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
But it all simply does not connect together. Mostly because even the "worst"renegade Shepard does nothing that a "bad" CO would do, which would include, but would not necessarily be limited to:

1. Using expletive and slur words while addressing his subordinates.
2. Physically abuse them.
3. Busy them with drills, physical exercise and pointless work just to make sure they are busy.

Sorry, we are not trying to retake Stalingrand here. 

Modifié par Phaedon, 27 décembre 2010 - 12:40 .

[Volband]

Jesus, I feel sad for some of the people here. Some started with a low profile, telling that ren shep shouldn't be bashed, etc. Then the OP firmly explained that a.) he personally likes renshep, b.) his grandpas' opinion is about renshep handling his/her team, not the whole concept of the renegade.



That's one thing that some of you can't even understand his explanation and keep saying "ooooooow, leave my renshep aloneeeeeeee, why does everyone agaiiinst rensheeep, noooo". But when a short-sighted guy starts calling the OPs story made-up, and the "leavemyrenegadealoneee" guys/girls immidietly joins, that's really sad... And now I'm not talking about Weskerr, because he mentioned this possibility earlier, so I accept his thoughts.





And some irony at the end:



TS2Aggie said "I agree; this is just another example of someone lying to other people in order to force their own opinion onto others whilst trying to give it an 'air of authenticity' that is completely untrue.", quoting a post that tries to force his own opinion onto others, while it might be completely untrue. Riiiiiiiiight.



But yeah, I guess she doesn't mind it, so long the forced, untrue opinion serves her beloved renshep. Seriously, how cheap is that? Do we REALLY have to sink that deep? :/ Especially after the OP said he likes renshep. Should he tattoo on his chest that "I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH RENEGADE" to understand?



Anyways, thanks for the story, it gives an interesting perspective to the game, whether it's true or not. And the only one who knows the truth is the OP, so stop saying things about some other people lives for 100% sure.

[Bigdoser]

I think people are still missing the point of the post its not the decisions of renshep its how renshep handles the team. Gosh is it that hard to understand people are turning this into a whole different disscusion and how they hell do you know he is not making it up?

[The Smoking Man]

Volband wrote...

Jesus, I feel sad for some of the people here. Some started with a low profile, telling that ren shep shouldn't be bashed, etc. Then the OP firmly explained that a.) he personally likes renshep, b.) his grandpas' opinion is about renshep handling his/her team, not the whole concept of the renegade.

That's one thing that some of you can't even understand his explanation and keep saying "ooooooow, leave my renshep aloneeeeeeee, why does everyone agaiiinst rensheeep, noooo". But when a short-sighted guy starts calling the OPs story made-up, and the "leavemyrenegadealoneee" guys/girls immidietly joins, that's really sad... And now I'm not talking about Weskerr, because he mentioned this possibility earlier, so I accept his thoughts.


And some irony at the end:

TS2Aggie said "I agree; this is just another example of someone lying to other people in order to force their own opinion onto others whilst trying to give it an 'air of authenticity' that is completely untrue.", quoting a post that tries to force his own opinion onto others, while it might be completely untrue. Riiiiiiiiight.

But yeah, I guess she doesn't mind it, so long the forced, untrue opinion serves her beloved renshep. Seriously, how cheap is that? Do we REALLY have to sink that deep? :/ Especially after the OP said he likes renshep. Should he tattoo on his chest that "I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH RENEGADE" to understand?

Anyways, thanks for the story, it gives an interesting perspective to the game, whether it's true or not. And the only one who knows the truth is the OP, so stop saying things about some other people lives for 100% sure.

This.

This got turned into Generic Paragon Vs. Renegade Flame War #835725321.5. What a shame. The discussion was pretty interesting at first.

[Bigdoser]

This was an interesting topic until people had to come in and say their opinion is the correct one! Can't we save the paragon vs renegade for another time? and actually discuss the topic at hand.

[The Smoking Man]

Bigdoser wrote...

This was an interesting topic until people had to come in and say their opinion is the correct one! Can't we save the paragon vs renegade for another time? and actually discuss the topic at hand.

"Save for another time"? No, it's not that it should be saved for later; the paragon vs. renegade discussion is a horse that has already been beaten to death^2. And somehow that didn't stop anybody from derailing this thread.

Modifié par The Smoking Man, 27 décembre 2010 - 02:00 .

[Computron2000]

I think most failed to understand why the pure renegade's action showed poor leadership from the grandad's viewpoint. The issue is down time. During downtime, you get to speak with your team members, interact a bit. If you had someone keep giving you **** and treating your concerns as stuff for morons, well do that in a marriage and see how it goes

"But its about the army and the "cause", not about being married to Shepard!" you say? Sorry but the "cause" is pretty far from your mind when you're trying to stay alive.

In my country, a two year stint in the army is mandatory and in the platoon, there has been loose talk about various officers during downtime, some of which refers to getting so and so incompetent officer shot (including a major who cancelled a soldier's day leave for his father's funeral). Fantasy talk of course, but if we ever needed to go to war, things are hard to say.

Modifié par Computron2000, 27 décembre 2010 - 02:19 .