392 réponses à ce sujet

[Simonnize]

Firstly, I would like to thank you for sharing this with us. Secondly, I really hope your grandpa has read the Mass Effect Novels? They are a must for every Sci-fi fan!

[expanding panic]

I never thought of it that way. Your absolutely right you never learn about that in the history books. Thanks gave me a new way to look at something. Great post

[Archereon]

I don't see why everyone has to accuse this guy of being a dirty liar...Does it really matter whether or not his Grandfather actually has seen Mass Effect, he makes a valid point. His "grandfather" wasn't complaining about renegade Shepard's military strictness, he disliked the times Shepard reaches outright sadism in his renegade actions. A strict CO is not a bad thing in my opinion, but a sadistic one, such as a full renegade Shepard, definitely is not a guy you would want to work for if you had a choice.

[Colin651]

This kind of thing needs to be in history books, at least the good CO part. Personally I love listening to the veterans' war stories and this one was a treat.



And second, Neutral or Renegade is usually my choice, as long as it get's the job done. As soon as renegade shows a path that I don't want to go down (Like letting a person with valued intel die), I go paragon.

[Conestoga Joe]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

@ Conestoga Joe, I'm confused about your tone and intent from your other posts. And you have been attacking the OP.

I have not attacked the OP. I've attacked his story for its obvious gaps in reality, and I've attacked people's propensity to blindly accept the word of a stranger on the Internet. If you had read all my posts, you'd know that I enjoyed the OP's story and fully support his right to make up and post whatever stories he likes.

Instead you could have easily wrote: I don't believe Hathur, I want proof that his Grandpa exists and that his "Grandpa" is not being used in an argumentum ad verecundiam.

I could have said that, but I didn't because I know it's impossible to prove something like that over the Internet. So instead of saying I didn't believe the OP and using unnecessary Latin terminology to demand that he do the impossible, I said I didn't believe the OP and then explained why.

And you seem to be arguing from reductio ad ridiculum, here are select examples:

Conestoga Joe wrote...

as cool as it would be if this story was true, it clearly isn't. Some fanboy is just trying to justify his opinions of the game by going "My grandfather says paragon is better than renegade and he was in World War II so he's right!"

Do you all honestly believe an 80-year-old man is watching recorded RPG conversations and not only enjoying it but understanding it thoroughly enough to discuss the same points 20-something video game nerds argue about on the Internet?

These aren't movies, people, no matter how cinematically they're presented. If you have no experience with video games, you're going to have very little interest in these characters, especially if your only connection to them is recorded gameplay footage of a third party exploring their dialogue trees. Do you really think someone in his eighties would be so intellectually engaged by watching cartoons with a handful of preset body motions and facial expressions talk at each other for hours?

Do any of you have any experience interacting with people from this age group?

That's not how old people talk. That's how young people imagine they talk.

Like I said, it'd be a cool story if it was true, but you people are acting as if this something so profound and awesome when it's just some guy taking you for a ride.

the OP is a faceless nobody. In my experience, when a stranger on the Internet tells you something that common sense says probably didn't really happen, most people don't decide to believe it anyway just because it would be cool if it was true. It's cool if you can read his posts and then honestly say to yourself, "Yeah, this probably did really happen," but it seems like most of the people in this thread are just posting kneejerk responses without any critical thought and could use a little perspective.

I raised a number of reasoned points why I believe the OP's story to be untrue. Do you dispute them? If not, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing, or because you don't want to accept that the story probably isn't true. Either way, what you've been saying has no bearing on any of the points I brought up.

I ask for a little perspective, please.

Next time you want to use your ten-dollar words, you might want to make sure you know what they mean first. None of your select examples restate the OP's argument in a ridiculous way. The OP didn't even make a straightforward argument; he told a story, and I pointed out why it was unlikely. None of your select examples even exaggerate anything the OP said. If you find them ridiculous, it's because what the OP said was ridiculous.

Volband wrote...

But when a short-sighted guy starts calling the OPs story made-up, and the "leavemyrenegadealoneee" guys/girls immidietly joins, that's really sad...

quoting a post that tries to force his own opinion onto others, while it might be  completely untrue. Riiiiiiiiight.

If you have a problem with something I say, don't be afraid to call me out on it. Hiding ambiguous, veiled insults in a response to another poster doesn't really accomplish anything.

Since you seem to have a pretty binary perspective on things, let me just say that I don't care if you believe the OP or not. All I ask is that you use a little critical thought and actually look at and comprehend the unlikelihood of his claims before you blindly accept the word of a stranger.

Modifié par Conestoga Joe, 27 décembre 2010 - 06:00 .

[Pacifien]

I suggest that if you people have a problem with each other, you take it to PM now.

[Volband]

Conestoga Joe wrote...
If you have a problem with something I say, don't be afraid to call me out on it. Hiding ambiguous, veiled insults in a response to another poster doesn't really accomplish anything.

Since you seem to have a pretty binary perspective on things, let me just say that I don't care if you believe the OP or not. All I ask is that you use a little critical thought and actually look at and comprehend the unlikelihood of his claims before you blindly accept the word of a stranger.

You have quite an imagination (which is not a bad thing, but can lead you to wrong tracks). I didn't call your name because *drumroll* I was not criticizing you. I'm more irritated by people who doesn't have their own opinion and only adapts someone others', because that offends someone who (they think) bashed on someone\\something they like. And the one, whom I quoted was just like that. If you read how she changed throughout this thread, you can see what I'm talking about. 

Sure, I don't agree with your style, because you state something you can NOT (n-o-t) know for SURE, which is not wise. But at least you don't do this, because the OP hurt your feelings, but because you are confident that he's lying, and it annoys you how he manipulates us. I can understand that, but in that case you should try to convince us, not saying "omg, it's a lie, i'm sure, i know, i know everything, if you don't think it's a lie you are idiots!". If you are right eventually he'll make a mistake, but the method you are presenting your opinion with is kinda has the opposite result that you wanted. "Who should I believe, the kind OP, or the bigheaded guy? Hmmm...".

So I'm not afraid of calling you out (that's why I called you short-sighted in my post, maybe you missed it), but the thing you quoted from me is (mainly) a critic of someone else. And I did NOT say if I believed the OP or not. To be honest, if a gun was pointed to my head and my life was depending on my guess whether the story is true or not, I'd probably say it's not. Howewer I still don't judge over him, because history proved that many people who were right was killed, just because others were confident that he\\she was lying. ( "The Earth isn't flat??? Oooohhh, we have dismissed that claim!") 

Modifié par Volband, 27 décembre 2010 - 06:53 .

[Dune01]

Thank you for this nice share OP.Probably the longest text on forum that I read.It was worth it.

[Aggie Punbot]

Bigdoser wrote...

This was an interesting topic until people had to come in and say their opinion is the correct one! Can't we save the paragon vs renegade for another time? and actually discuss the topic at hand.

Sorry, that's not going to happen as long as people continue to find innovative ways to disguise [alignment] bashing in seemingly unrelated topics. Personally, I wish people would simply accept the fact that not everyone plays the game in the exact same manner and leave it at that, but I doubt that's going to happen either.

In response to the original post, however, my initial thought was as follows:

"My Renegade Shepard disapproves of your grandpa."

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 27 décembre 2010 - 09:23 .

[cannedcream]

If true, then a damn good story.

[Detha]

I really like gramps. Thanks for sharing.

[PiEman]

Tell your grandpa I'm in love with him.



And that I mean that in the most platonic and non-homosexual way possible. And that he's Canadian Superman.

[PauseforEffect]

OP, it was an honor to read that story. I offer the deepest respect that is your grandfather's right.

Please tell him it is a relief to know that valuing other people's lives is not just a foolish ideal.

[SufferingTormentDarkness]

Epic Trilogy, Bretheren.

[PsychoWARD23]

That's a great story, thanks for sharing.

[Jibbed34]

I don't care if this is true or not.

Great post, thoroughly enjoyed the read.

[The Snow Dog]

Interesting.

[goatman42]

As always I feel the best way to describe a person's Shepard is by using the 9 point alignment system.

Renegade Shepard is funny but I've always considered him/her to be unrealistic. They fit the category of "Lawful Evil." Acting like that in real life is only going to end you up in a ditch.

Doesn't mean Paragon Shepard is completely realistic ether. They fit "Lawful Good" with a bit of "Neutral Good." The problem with a full Paragon is that in real life you can't always make the "good" choice, sometimes you have to do the messy things to get the job done. 

Thats why my Shepard is somewhere between "Neutral Good" and "Chaotic Good." I'm kind and caring to those around me and always try to find the peaceful situation, but if your getting in my way I won't hesitate to shoot. I feel that this is the most realisic.

But really it all comes down to your personal choice. There is no wrong way to play your Shepard and don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

Modifié par goatman42, 03 janvier 2011 - 03:07 .

[Darth_Ravor]

goatman42 wrote...

As always I feel the best way to describe a person's Shepard is by using the 9 point alignment system.

Renegade Shepard is funny but I've always considered him/her to be unrealistic. They fit the category of "Lawful Evil." Acting like that in real life is only going to end you up in a ditch.

Doesn't mean Paragon Shepard is completely realistic ether. They fit "Lawful Good" with a bit of "Neutral Good." The problem with a full Paragon is that in real life you can't always make the "good" choice, sometimes you have to do the messy things to get the job done. 

Thats why my Shepard is somewhere between "Neutral Good" and "Chaotic Good." I'm kind and caring to those around me and always try to find the peaceful situation, but if your getting in my way I won't hesitate to shoot. I feel that this is the most realisic.

But really it all comes down to your personal choice. There is no wrong way to play your Shepard and don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

there's no way i could type all that but i agree completely. ive always been full paragon till i realised that when jack called me a pus, i agreed with her!

[ChuckNorris18]

You should show him what happens to renegade shep in mass effect 2 because of his insolence, I'm sure he'd agree with how it works out for them.

[kill_switch_423]

ChuckNorris18 wrote...

You should show him what happens to renegade shep in mass effect 2 because of his insolence, I'm sure he'd agree with how it works out for them.

This.  I think he'd like to know that said Shepard would not gain any loyalty and ultimately die, showing that the story reflects his own experiences.

Very interesting read, and unlike others I do find it plausible.  My own grandparents enjoy watching me play certain games, Mass Effect included.  An interesting story is an interesting story, and what form it is in does not really matter as much as people assume it does for anyone of any age who enjoys a good story.  To claim that ME is too complicated for that generation to follow is to insult the intelligence of senior citizens as a whole, in my opinion.

[GodWood]

kill_switch_423 wrote...

ChuckNorris18 wrote...
You should show him what happens to renegade shep in mass effect 2 because of his insolence, I'm sure he'd agree with how it works out for them.

This. I think he'd like to know that said Shepard would not gain any loyalty and ultimately die, showing that the story reflects his own experiences.

Failing the suicide mission has nothing to do with being renegade.

[kill_switch_423]

GodWood wrote...

kill_switch_423 wrote...

ChuckNorris18 wrote...
You should show him what happens to renegade shep in mass effect 2 because of his insolence, I'm sure he'd agree with how it works out for them.

This. I think he'd like to know that said Shepard would not gain any loyalty and ultimately die, showing that the story reflects his own experiences.

Failing the suicide mission has nothing to do with being renegade.

I apologize, I should have clarified.  I'm 90% certain that, as a pure Renegade, Shep dismisses every squadmember's loyalty request.  Accepting that quest afterwards contradicts "pure Renegade", IMO, at least if not metagaming.