Also note that in ME2 specifically, you can occasionally do paragon actions in a renegade way. There are times when you select the paragon option and then you get a second choice where you can go full renegade. For an example of this sort of thing from ME1, see the final confrontation with Saren. If you have enough Charm/Intimidate, you can actually alternate between paragon and renegade speech. I love that option.
My Grandpa disapproves of renegade Shepard
Débuté par
Hathur
, déc. 24 2010 06:30
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#352
Posté 12 janvier 2011 - 02:38
A Killing Sound
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This is one of the more interesting posts I've read on the forums. Cool story, thanks for sharing OP. I hope your grandfather enjoys Mass Effect 3 come the holidays 
#354
Posté 12 janvier 2011 - 06:27
Ozzyfan223
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Maybe I'm reading in to it wrong, but, I think its a pretty dick move to leave a fellow soldier for dead in enemiy teritory. No matter how big of an a-hole he is.
Modifié par Ozzyfan223, 12 janvier 2011 - 06:34 .
#355
Posté 12 janvier 2011 - 06:42
jmp087
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Which renegade moments did your grandpa see?
#356
Posté 12 janvier 2011 - 04:25
MaaZeus
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Ozzyfan223 wrote...
Maybe I'm reading in to it wrong, but, I think its a pretty dick move to leave a fellow soldier for dead in enemiy teritory. No matter how big of an a-hole he is.
Yes but unfortunately war isn't pretty...
#357
Posté 12 janvier 2011 - 04:31
GodWood
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My renegade bar is completely full and my Shepard doesn't act like a 'd-bag' to anyone.Ozzyfan223 wrote...
In ME2, renegade shepard is just a d-bag, to everyone. And your gramps is right.
So no, you are wrong.
#358
Posté 12 janvier 2011 - 06:04
mineralica
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Finished "bottom-right" playthrough several days ago and really was concerned if my crew is going to run away before SM started. And now I finally read this story. Is it a fate?
Excellent story, OP. Thanks for sharing
Excellent story, OP. Thanks for sharing
#359
Posté 12 janvier 2011 - 06:33
biomag
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... while I love to hear stories from people who made the real experience, I will judge them as any other: subjective.
Don't get me wrong, I ain't saying your grandfather is wrong, but after spending enough time reading about leadership, tactics, history,... I guess I can say: Its not that simple.
Paragon Shepard is made to be perfect and he/she can't fail. That's BW's story. Renegade Shep is an total a** and can't fail either (but BW makes you pay, as you loose content for the next games). Truth is, and even your grandfather said it (according to your post), the best leaders give you hope, but they are firm too. You can't run a bigger force without discipline. Best example? Look at Alexander the Great and what was left without him. Fantastic officers that followed him to hell and back, obeyed to each of his orders, but once he was dead and they left without a clear leadership, a person with the right to rule them, they started a horrible "civil" war hunting each other down as they all thought they know best and deserve to lead.
Also watching my boss at the office (I am new to this company) I see how much complaints he is willing to take from his employees. While on the one hand its good to show them respect and to listen to their opinion, I also see how much time is wasted in those complaints and how often they don't take him serious enough to just shut up and go back to work. Now, in a office the worst that can happen is that you will sit a few extra hours to get the job done, but on a battlefield contradiction and lack of discipline will cost lives and not just the ones of those who are the cause of it.
Long story short: Leadership, like most things in live, is complex. It's a walk on a very thin line between giving your troops room to do their thing and forcing them to do things they don't want to. Both paragon and renegade Shepards are BS and absolutely no realistic human beings, even less commanders. So while for sure troops like a nice commander more, there were enough officers that were nice and just ****ed up themselves, their troops and many others that had the bad luck of getting caught in that mess. Same with jackasses.
Don't get me wrong, I ain't saying your grandfather is wrong, but after spending enough time reading about leadership, tactics, history,... I guess I can say: Its not that simple.
Paragon Shepard is made to be perfect and he/she can't fail. That's BW's story. Renegade Shep is an total a** and can't fail either (but BW makes you pay, as you loose content for the next games). Truth is, and even your grandfather said it (according to your post), the best leaders give you hope, but they are firm too. You can't run a bigger force without discipline. Best example? Look at Alexander the Great and what was left without him. Fantastic officers that followed him to hell and back, obeyed to each of his orders, but once he was dead and they left without a clear leadership, a person with the right to rule them, they started a horrible "civil" war hunting each other down as they all thought they know best and deserve to lead.
Also watching my boss at the office (I am new to this company) I see how much complaints he is willing to take from his employees. While on the one hand its good to show them respect and to listen to their opinion, I also see how much time is wasted in those complaints and how often they don't take him serious enough to just shut up and go back to work. Now, in a office the worst that can happen is that you will sit a few extra hours to get the job done, but on a battlefield contradiction and lack of discipline will cost lives and not just the ones of those who are the cause of it.
Long story short: Leadership, like most things in live, is complex. It's a walk on a very thin line between giving your troops room to do their thing and forcing them to do things they don't want to. Both paragon and renegade Shepards are BS and absolutely no realistic human beings, even less commanders. So while for sure troops like a nice commander more, there were enough officers that were nice and just ****ed up themselves, their troops and many others that had the bad luck of getting caught in that mess. Same with jackasses.
#360
Posté 12 janvier 2011 - 07:28
Drowsy0106
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Thanks for sharing OP, great read. Sounds like u have a awesome grandfather!
#361
Posté 12 janvier 2011 - 08:56
Matt251287
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I read up to page 10 in one go, I want to say that the OP was a great read, and apologize for everyone who has been douchy in this thread,
"It's not okay to compare videogames and real life, blarrgh" - What are you supposed to compare them with?
I wanted to hear more of the old gents thoughts on ME's situations but there's been some massive derrailing.
"It's not okay to compare videogames and real life, blarrgh" - What are you supposed to compare them with?
I wanted to hear more of the old gents thoughts on ME's situations but there's been some massive derrailing.
#362
Posté 12 janvier 2011 - 10:20
Raanz
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Nice story. Tell your grandfather next time you see him, Thanks for his service during WW2.
#363
Posté 12 janvier 2011 - 10:35
7th_Phoenix
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@Hathur: Great post. It was a very enlightening (and touching) read.
It's great that you're close to your grandfather and are able to entertain him with recorded gameplay and such, and that he takes an interest in you and what you enjoy. Thank him for his service, and thank you for the post.
It's great that you're close to your grandfather and are able to entertain him with recorded gameplay and such, and that he takes an interest in you and what you enjoy. Thank him for his service, and thank you for the post.
#364
Posté 12 janvier 2011 - 11:03
Urazz
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@Hathur: Did your grand father find all the renegade choices disgusting or did he find the whole entire renegade choice disgusting? I would ask him about that because I felt some of the renegade choices or neutral choices were actually more realistic choices alot of us would make.
#365
Posté 13 janvier 2011 - 01:11
-Jaren-
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Hathur: Thank you so much for posting this. Your Grandfather sounds like a helluva guy. Be proud you share his blood.
#366
Posté 13 janvier 2011 - 01:53
Mabase
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I've just finished all 15 pages of this thread and have a few things to add.
First thanks to the OP. Whether true or false, I do enjoy seeing the story from a different perspective. Thank you for telling us about your grandfather and his very personal connection with the actions of Shepard.
Second, I usually tend to lean towards the Paragon end of the spectrum while playing through games where I am given a choice. My meters at the end of my last playthrough where a full Paragon, 50-75% Renegade. I, like many, found taking a hardline to either end to be stupid in most instances. I tried to put myself into the shoes of Shepard and tried to reflect as closely as I could the choices I would make. I took many "Renegade" actions out of practicality. When faced with an enemy of unknown strength, I chose to bring all the force to bear on it, rather than save the council. On the colony where there is an impending missile strike, I allowed the residential area to be destroyed rather than let the colony be destroyed completely by getting its infrastucture demolished. I gave the Illusive Man control of the Collector base, because I would rather have access to whatever technologies we can develop from it than not. The fact that I was putting it in the hands of Cerberus did give me pause, but in a fight for galactic survival I believe that was the correct option.
Playing this way did get me earn me one non-loyal squadmate, though I later managed to regain the lost loyalty. I do think the system needs a significant overhaul, as the present system lacks flexibility.
I would also like to see what your grandfather thinks of a more tempered playthrough, as opposed to a black/white view you presented, as there are merits to both Paragon and Renegade options in some situations are equal.
I
First thanks to the OP. Whether true or false, I do enjoy seeing the story from a different perspective. Thank you for telling us about your grandfather and his very personal connection with the actions of Shepard.
Second, I usually tend to lean towards the Paragon end of the spectrum while playing through games where I am given a choice. My meters at the end of my last playthrough where a full Paragon, 50-75% Renegade. I, like many, found taking a hardline to either end to be stupid in most instances. I tried to put myself into the shoes of Shepard and tried to reflect as closely as I could the choices I would make. I took many "Renegade" actions out of practicality. When faced with an enemy of unknown strength, I chose to bring all the force to bear on it, rather than save the council. On the colony where there is an impending missile strike, I allowed the residential area to be destroyed rather than let the colony be destroyed completely by getting its infrastucture demolished. I gave the Illusive Man control of the Collector base, because I would rather have access to whatever technologies we can develop from it than not. The fact that I was putting it in the hands of Cerberus did give me pause, but in a fight for galactic survival I believe that was the correct option.
Playing this way did get me earn me one non-loyal squadmate, though I later managed to regain the lost loyalty. I do think the system needs a significant overhaul, as the present system lacks flexibility.
I would also like to see what your grandfather thinks of a more tempered playthrough, as opposed to a black/white view you presented, as there are merits to both Paragon and Renegade options in some situations are equal.
I
#367
Posté 13 janvier 2011 - 02:45
Vena_86
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Good story. Awesome grandpa.
What would interest me is how he reacts to the combat. Is it too abstract to create an emotional response or actually somewhat relateable?
What would interest me is how he reacts to the combat. Is it too abstract to create an emotional response or actually somewhat relateable?
#369
Posté 13 janvier 2011 - 04:19
Radwar
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Great read, OP and great thread, well until a few morons hijacked it.
#370
Posté 13 janvier 2011 - 06:25
Schneidend
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GodWood wrote...
My renegade bar is completely full and my Shepard doesn't act like a 'd-bag' to anyone.
So no, you are wrong.
This.
#371
Posté 13 janvier 2011 - 06:31
sinosleep
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I'm curious as to exactly what it is so many poster's are considering hijacking. I would hope it was when things devolved into name calling and not simply the fact that some people decided to voice their disagreement with what the OP's Grandad's opinion was. I don't really see how discussing something like whether full paragon Shep is or isn't any more or less idiotic than full renegade Shep is out of bounds when the OP is discussing something right along those lines.
Is everyone replying supposed to simply type "awesome story" and bounce? I thought this was a forum where people partake in discussions.
Is everyone replying supposed to simply type "awesome story" and bounce? I thought this was a forum where people partake in discussions.
#372
Posté 13 janvier 2011 - 08:40
Aggie Punbot
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Don't be absurd; this is a forum where if people don't agree with you*, you insult, mock and pester them while degrading their choices at every opportunity, obvious or not.
* General 'you' not *you* specifically.
* General 'you' not *you* specifically.
#373
Posté 13 janvier 2011 - 10:01
SkittlesKat96
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I can't blame him, people usually wonder why people who have been through war take things so seriously but that is just how war is, it changes people and stuff.
Some things renagade Shepard can do is for the greater good though, like killing Vido Santiago at the cost of a bunch of dock workers, I do that in my renegade/whatever the cost playthrough.
Some things renagade Shepard can do is for the greater good though, like killing Vido Santiago at the cost of a bunch of dock workers, I do that in my renegade/whatever the cost playthrough.
#374
Posté 13 janvier 2011 - 10:04
Element_Zero
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Wow saw some horror-id posts in this one. Um where to begin, some folks can see more than you think just by reading up on your posts or taking a look at the actions people make. Rather or not the OP was 'feeding his ego' or something else doesn't seem like something one would do, course then again. . I guess anything is possible, and I've seen people say anything to get their way.
I tend to believe the poster however, since I've know folks that have served on ships or other branches of the military from the past. And have heard some of their stories they have stated about the various wars or peace time deployments. So it doesn't seem that far fetched to me and I really do think the old guy loves his grandson quite a bit. I know some of you out there are not that lucky and are dealing with crap from your guardians too.
I'm not going to delve into my past but for those interested in reading up on management might want to take a peek at 'It's Your Ship' by Captain D, Michael Abrashoff. There are other titles out there too I would suggest you read up as far as history goes and separate ones concerning management. Should you feel you are having issues in this area.
And yes some officers who treated their solders like they were disposable robots were 'left behind' in various wars depending on the country you are in. Honestly you should also read up on Maj Richard 'Dick' Winters book too he was in Co E 506th Regiment 101st Airborne Division if memory serves me right he had some issues with his CO (well his whole Company did) weeks / days before the D-Day invasion. Sadly he passed away fairly recently.
Course there are others who despise / hate anything to do with solders or even public service folks too. I know of a few bars I couldn't go into and I'm sure if I clipped my hair and walked back into a few of them, they would ask me to leave or taunt to try to get a fight.
If you don't value their lives out there folks you can end up with some enormous problems later on. Treating GSW's and the shock from explosions isn't that much fun, well never mind. It doesn't seem to matter to many of you anyway.
I guess I will say this, don't feel guilty with which ever route you took to the end. Paragon - Renegade the pixels don't care about being hurt.
I do caution those that try to use this stuff in real life though, you could find yourself face down in the muck. You will be much better prepared to go though some sort of leadership class or reading up on management techniques if that is what you aspire to be!
I tend to believe the poster however, since I've know folks that have served on ships or other branches of the military from the past. And have heard some of their stories they have stated about the various wars or peace time deployments. So it doesn't seem that far fetched to me and I really do think the old guy loves his grandson quite a bit. I know some of you out there are not that lucky and are dealing with crap from your guardians too.
I'm not going to delve into my past but for those interested in reading up on management might want to take a peek at 'It's Your Ship' by Captain D, Michael Abrashoff. There are other titles out there too I would suggest you read up as far as history goes and separate ones concerning management. Should you feel you are having issues in this area.
And yes some officers who treated their solders like they were disposable robots were 'left behind' in various wars depending on the country you are in. Honestly you should also read up on Maj Richard 'Dick' Winters book too he was in Co E 506th Regiment 101st Airborne Division if memory serves me right he had some issues with his CO (well his whole Company did) weeks / days before the D-Day invasion. Sadly he passed away fairly recently.
Course there are others who despise / hate anything to do with solders or even public service folks too. I know of a few bars I couldn't go into and I'm sure if I clipped my hair and walked back into a few of them, they would ask me to leave or taunt to try to get a fight.
If you don't value their lives out there folks you can end up with some enormous problems later on. Treating GSW's and the shock from explosions isn't that much fun, well never mind. It doesn't seem to matter to many of you anyway.
I guess I will say this, don't feel guilty with which ever route you took to the end. Paragon - Renegade the pixels don't care about being hurt.
I do caution those that try to use this stuff in real life though, you could find yourself face down in the muck. You will be much better prepared to go though some sort of leadership class or reading up on management techniques if that is what you aspire to be!
Modifié par Element_Zero, 13 janvier 2011 - 10:05 .
#375
Posté 13 janvier 2011 - 10:17
Deathwurm
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SkittlesKat96 wrote...
I can't blame him, people usually wonder why people who have been through war take things so seriously but that is just how war is, it changes people and stuff.
My late Grandfather was an Ambulance driver in WW2 in Europe and up until the day he passed away he had terrible Nightmares almost every time he fell asleep...
