392 réponses à ce sujet

[Aggie Punbot]

Element_Zero wrote...

And yes some officers who treated their solders like they were disposable robots were 'left behind' in various wars depending on the country you are in.

This thread has definitely made me lose nearly all respect I had for the Canadian and US military.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 13 janvier 2011 - 10:58 .

[sinosleep]

TS2Aggie wrote...

This thread has definitely made me lose nearly all respect I had for the Canadian and US military.

No man left behind is what I was taught when I was in the US army.

[Element_Zero]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Element_Zero wrote...

And yes some officers who treated their solders like they were disposable robots were 'left behind' in various wars depending on the country you are in.

This thread has definitely made me lose nearly all respect I had for the Canadian and US military.

Well TS2Aggie, I don't think this happens at all these days. . I'm not saying it's not possible, but if you want to a good compairison what the Russians did to their solders and officers while taking Stalingrad from the Germans in 1942? or 43? is a hundred times worse. Most of those poor guys got maybe 1 stripper clip between two solders with Mosin Nagets rifles, told to advance, and the machine guns were placed at their backs should they decide to retreat. Infact the sub officers that failed to take the city were expected to shoot themselves in the head. (again if memory serves me right) Hell what both sides did to each other and the civilians there. . . The Russians were desperate to stop the German advance at the time. And the Germans were desperate to take the city since winter rolled in overtop of em.

Oh and TS2Aggie read up on Winter's and how they delt with the problem. . . It wasn't 'in field' with this guy. . . Although later on they did have a LT freeze up during a advance and had to pull his tail off the line.

Actually now that I think of it watch 'Band of Brothers' I believe that was the HBO series, and I think Winter's made comments about these things. I had totally forgotten about that.

Modifié par Element_Zero, 13 janvier 2011 - 11:14 .

[Element_Zero]

Sinosleep I think you said you were a Sergeant on one of your posts. (Yes I have a deep memory) Did you have any issues with oppressive officers?

[Element_Zero]

Ah found it! . . .

Here's a good discussion concerning 'No Man Left Behind'

http://boards.straig...ad.php?t=502180

Modifié par Element_Zero, 13 janvier 2011 - 12:02 .

[sinosleep]

Element_Zero wrote...

Sinosleep I think you said you were a Sergeant on one of your posts. (Yes I have a deep memory) Did you have any issues with oppressive officers?

Yeah, I was Sergeant, and while I knew some guys in the chain of command that were shady (overheard a discussion about "losing" terminal leave paperwork in order to force soldiers to deploy since their paperwork wouldn't be done before deadline) or irritating (singling people out for crap details) but never anything to kill a man over.

[Element_Zero]

Yea, well I had at one time did some research on it . . For some paper I had to write up, but I think the most recent one was in Vietnam? it might have been Korea? It's been over 10 years since I wrote the paper, so I don't remember all of the details. Edit: The more I think about it, I think it was in a eariler war, WW 1? at least within the US anyway.

Edit 2!: Now that I got a couple hours sleep, it was about a Fragging incident that occured in WWI Grenade down the pants of some poor soul, had to write up the paper for a leadership class. We all drew scraps of paper on different leadership issues, some got Private CEO - business management stuff, others got different incidents in the military.

I haven't heard of anything happening since then though. Most guys are just Court Marshaled these days at least in the US.

Dictatorships however are a much different story though, and scuttlebutt from them shows something totally different.

Oh and I didn't mean to imply that Winter's did this for those that might have misread it. . or that it is a common thing. I'm a tad tired!

Modifié par Element_Zero, 14 janvier 2011 - 02:50 .

[Ariq007]

Thank you for sharing this with us, Hathur. Your grandfather sounds like a great man. My grandfather also served in WWII in the Canadian army and i wish i would have had a chance to talk to him about his experiences in the war, but he died when i was very young. You're lucky to have his influence in your life

[close2myheart]

Hi Hathur, I have a granddad who took up arms defending my country's independence so your story really hits home for me. He used to tell me stories of how it was during those days and how he couldn't forget his youngest brother (a Lt) who volunteered to stay behind and help civilians in a plague infested town. Most of the men survived, but his brother did not.



Anyhow, thank you for sharing your story in this forum =)

[Lunatic LK47]

Element_Zero wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

Element_Zero wrote...

And yes some officers who treated their solders like they were disposable robots were 'left behind' in various wars depending on the country you are in.

This thread has definitely made me lose nearly all respect I had for the Canadian and US military.

Well TS2Aggie, I don't think this happens at all these days. . I'm not saying it's not possible, but if you want to a good compairison what the Russians did to their solders and officers while taking Stalingrad from the Germans in 1942? or 43? is a hundred times worse. Most of those poor guys got maybe 1 stripper clip between two solders with Mosin Nagets rifles, told to advance, and the machine guns were placed at their backs should they decide to retreat. Infact the sub officers that failed to take the city were expected to shoot themselves in the head. (again if memory serves me right) Hell what both sides did to each other and the civilians there. . . The Russians were desperate to stop the German advance at the time. And the Germans were desperate to take the city since winter rolled in overtop of em.

Oh and TS2Aggie read up on Winter's and how they delt with the problem. . . It wasn't 'in field' with this guy. . . Although later on they did have a LT freeze up during a advance and had to pull his tail off the line.

Actually now that I think of it watch 'Band of Brothers' I believe that was the HBO series, and I think Winter's made comments about these things. I had totally forgotten about that.

Just to add to Element Zero's post, the problematic officer in question was Herbert Sobel, who while his training regimen may have helped Easy Company survive the live battles, had problems with basic military tactics (i.e. reading maps being one crucial skill) and was considered a liability to everyone in the company, forcing the men to willingly demote themselves or risk court-martials just to avoid serving with Sobel. Of course, he also fit the bill of "considering the soldiers as disposable robots"

[Volband]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Don't be absurd; this is a forum where if people don't agree with you*, you insult, mock and pester them while degrading their choices at every opportunity, obvious or not.

* General 'you' not *you* specifically.

Yeah, for instance I know some1 who called the OP story fake, cuz she doesn't agree with the views of his grandpa. 
Don't get my wrong, I think it's totally obvious that if someone thinks that paragon shep treats his squad better and would have better survivability in real life, and in the top of everything this person is OLD (jesus christ, old ppl don't exist! we know that, I mean COME ON!), then it is safe to say that he is fake and photoshopped and whatnot. 

I lied. And you should stop being such a renegade fan-girl. That should be respected that ypu think his grandpa is wrong. That should be respected that you think the OP is forging stories. But being such a ... well, saying things you can not absolutely sure about to be sure is kinda offensive and only generates flame. You are not stupid, because you perfectly describe your (and many other people's) attitude, you might just haven'T recognized it in yourself.

I hope I weren't too offensive. 

Modifié par Volband, 13 janvier 2011 - 08:05 .

[Schneidend]

Volband wrote...

Yeah, for instance I know some1 who called the OP story fake, cuz she doesn't agree with the views of his grandpa. 
Don't get my wrong, I think it's totally obvious that if someone thinks that paragon shep treats his squad better and would have better survivability in real life, and in the top of everything this person is OLD (jesus christ, old ppl don't exist! we know that, I mean COME ON!), then it is safe to say that he is fake and photoshopped and whatnot. 

I lied. And you should stop being such a renegade fan-girl. That should be respected that ypu think his grandpa is wrong. That should be respected that you think the OP is forging stories. But being such a ... well, saying things you can not absolutely sure about to be sure is kinda offensive and only generates flame. You are not stupid, because you perfectly describe your (and many other people's) attitude, you might just haven'T recognized it in yourself.

I hope I weren't too offensive. 

It was posited that the story might be fake because Hathur's grandfather has very scripted sounding dialogue. The whole thing sounds like it was written as part of the script for a made-for-TV-movie or short fiction.

Hathur is not above reproach or skepticism simply because his grandfather, who may not even be alive or even real, happened to supposedly be a WW2 vet.

[Volband]

Schneidend wrote...
It was posited that the story might be fake because Hathur's grandfather has very scripted sounding dialogue. The whole thing sounds like it was written as part of the script for a made-for-TV-movie or short fiction.

Hathur is not above reproach or skepticism simply because his grandfather, who may not even be alive or even real, happened to supposedly be a WW2 vet.

Yes, that's why I accept other opinions. Bot other opinions does not = "OMG, THIS IS FAKE. 100000000% CANT U SEE IT???". 

[Aggie Punbot]

Volband wrote...

Yeah, for instance I know some1 who called the OP story fake, cuz she doesn't agree with the views of his grandpa.

Really? Which one was that? Sure wasn't me since I called the story fake because I believe it is fake. *shocked gasps erupt from crowd!*  I know! It's impossible to believe that someone could actually be upfront about their positions, but here we are.

And you should stop being such a renegade fan-girl.

Again, who are you talking to? I am not a renegade fangirl; I am someone that wishes people would stop demeaning other players simply because they choose to play differently and make different choices (this goes for both renegade and paragon players). That is what ticks me off about the original post: someone concocted a very well-crafted piece of fiction and posted it as a subtle attack on renegade players because they didn't want to deal with the backlash of flat-out bad-mouthing the renegade playstyle and people are swallowing it hook-line-and-sinker.

Point of fact, I would actually be rather supportive (not entirely) of this made-up grandfather if I thought this was a genuine anecdote, but I don't so it doesn't matter.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 14 janvier 2011 - 02:34 .

[PARAGON87]

This was a great story. Thanks OP for making my night.

[TheBoss1138]

Even I knew grewing up, a good leader respects and listens to his *or her* men. They are your friends, your buddies, your allies, and ultimately your brothers. Your gramps, he sounds like a good man, hes served his time and now he can relax for the rest of his days.

Men like your grandpa and the leaders he served with are what ive always admired in history and I myself do know about the "history we dont know", the things that arent in the history books. Your grandpa has earned the highest prestige and honor in my eyes, I know he will be greatly welcomed in the hall of heroes , Hooah!

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

I understand where the OP's grandpa is coming from, and I overall think in a real life scenario a renegade Shepard might not work out in the end, however... he might in the sense of Shepard is supposedly the only one who can get the job done. His crew might think he's an ass, but they realize that if they "frag" him, nobody else is going to be able to step up to the plate and stop the *insert big bad enemy of ME series here*. and the whole universe is doomed.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I have heard legends about this thread



Tales that have spanned many continents and generations