392 réponses à ce sujet

[HiddenKING]

I've been following this thread for awhile and I have to say your Gramps is cool. Is there any other games that you have shown him? Also have you shown him the DLC?

[JackhammerGR]

My grandpa was in the WWII too(May the ground that lays upon him is soft).

But things were different for small countries, like mine, Greece. When all the major forces had tanks, jeeps, airplanes, trucks, we had donkeys . And yet, we managed to stop the Italian forces and messing with Hitler's plans.

In my grandpa's opinion, if the leaders of our troops would be like "renegades", I highly doubt that I could be able to write this as a Greek. People get a different strength, when they are relieved. My grandpa himself, almost got killed from the frostbites that almost everyone were having in the mountains separating Greece from Albania.

And if it wasn't for that one CO, my grandpa would never meet grandma. I remember him saying that "It's amazing how much strength a couple of words can give you. They give you hope and power, even when there none, and they can change the outcome, even if it was impossible".

I think that I was somewhat inspired from grandpa, and all I can say is that from 15 playthroughs, only 1 of them is a renegade.

Sorry for the big post, I just thought of my grandpa too...

Thank you for sharing this with us...

Modifié par JackhammerGR, 25 décembre 2010 - 01:17 .

[The Narrator]

Very nice, Thanks for sharing.



Never playing as renegade shepard :\\

[Schneidend]

Pacifien wrote...

How is it moronic that someone would create an opinion off the information he's been given? Blame the information for being limited, I suppose.

His grandfather's opinion isn't moronic, but the idea the OP is attempting to convey by saying "my grandfather thinks Renegade Sheps are douches, and he was totally in the army" certainly is moronic.

[TomY90]

Thanks for sharing your story



never played renegade shepherd tried to but resorted back to paragon shepherd.



It is nice to see/hear someone enjoying Mass Effect not for it being a fantastic story and i do agree with everything he has said especially the horizon scene that was definitely out of character for the alliance soliders.

[Khayness]

Schneidend wrote...

His grandfather's opinion isn't moronic, but the idea the OP is attempting to convey by saying "my grandfather thinks Renegade Sheps are douches, and he was totally in the army" certainly is moronic.

Well I saw this thread, and immediately thought "This will have some army reference in it for sure!".

Wish I had this level of clairvoyance at the poker table aswell.

[StowyMcStowstow]

marshalleck wrote...


Except I am specifically referring to Superman the comic book character as representing a juvenile world view where such nonsense heroics are not only possible, but commonplace. Personally I find the Paragon playthroughs to be unrealistic and downright insulting to my intelligence. 

 Why? Is it unrealistic to believe than a person is capable of not being a complete douche to everyone? I love being a paragon commander, because it's the route I would, and hopefully will, take in real life. 

[Encarmine]

Interesting, i dont want to sound evil, but your not that Creative Writer are you? About two weeks ago, somone with a similer name posted a long story about how Thane and His son reminded this person about his father and his own life, and how his father had since passed away, it got allot of responces, but then turned out to be a fictional story. Are you that same person?



Not everyone can be a noble hero, and not every 'non freindly' Officer was a bad one, you cant generalise like that, there were good and bad on both sides of WW2, dont buy into the propaganda of the heroic Allies defeating the worse than Satanic Social Workers Party or Imperial Japan. Life simply isnt that black and white.

[Schneidend]

All "ass" dialogue options are Renegade, but not all Renegade Shepards are asses.



Much like Kung-Fu is a martial art, but not all martial arts are Kung-Fu.



Much like an assault rifle is a gun, but not all guns are assault rifles.

[Costin_Razvan]

This was....interesting to say the very least. None of it is really new information for me since most of it I did already know already.



OP: From my perspective by reading your post it seems to me your grandfather wasn't so much against the major choices of a Renegade but how a Renegade treats his squadmates. Not exactly surprising either. I am all for the ends justifying the means and doing whatever it takes but I cannot fathom how that equals to being an utter **** just for the sake of it.



I would ask though: What does he think of some Renegade choices. Namely killing Vido, Balak, Dr. Heart, giving TIM the Collector Base and giving David to Cerberus.

[Hathur]

Schneidend wrote...

So...because you showed your grandfather a narrow view of Renegade Shepards by just picking every dickbag option the game offers, and your grandfather didn't like it...Renegade is bad?

All due respect to your war veteran grandfather, that's moronic.

I showed him 3 hours worth of renegade dialogue with squad members / ship mates. By Renegade, I mean anything that either awarded renegade points, or was marked as "red text" in the dialogue options... hence, Renegade Shepard, yes?

As a man who knows what constitutes good leadership, he objected to how Renegade shepard derides, dismisses, belittles or oppresses his squad members any time you select a Renegade dialogue choice (I.e. dealing with the fight between Jack & Miranda... Renegade is a jerk how he handles it and exerts dominance to handle it... Paragon diffuses the situation carefully to maintain morale).

My Grandfather's objection was that nobody would follow a Renegade Shepard to near certain death -- his actions did not, in his opinion of leadership, do anything that would instill confidence and determination into his or her troops.

He's qualified to say what kind of man (or woman) it takes to lead others into battle.... I doubt you are (unless you've either lead in actual combat, or followed as a soldier)... his opinion is a Paragon Commander instills confidence into his troops sufficiently to earn their trust and ensure they'll fight their hardest.... Renegade Shepard would be left to die on most fields of battle.... or shot in the back at the first opportunity.

[Pacifien]

Schneidend wrote...
His grandfather's opinion isn't moronic, but the idea the OP is attempting to convey by saying "my grandfather thinks Renegade Sheps are douches, and he was totally in the army" certainly is moronic.

His grandfather is conveying why he dislikes renegade Shepard using his own experience in the military for comparison. How that is moronic escapes me other than perhaps you dislike the fact that someone with military experience could dare put the comparison in a bad light.

Some people in the military will find renegade Shepard to be distasteful and a poor leader. Others will disagree. As much as people would like to think that the people in the military have a hive mind, I know that they do not. They are renegades and paragons still.

Modifié par Pacifien, 25 décembre 2010 - 01:32 .

[Weskerr]

Encarmine wrote...

Interesting, i dont want to sound evil, but your not that Creative Writer are you? About two weeks ago, somone with a similer name posted a long story about how Thane and His son reminded this person about his father and his own life, and how his father had since passed away, it got allot of responces, but then turned out to be a fictional story. Are you that same person?

I'm glad I'm not the only one who is suspcious of the OP''s honesty. The way he presented his story seemed to have all the nuances that a writer employs to tell a good story, not a true story. The way he described how his grandfather spoke to him came off as cliche and hackneyed to me. I don't believe this is a true story.

[StowyMcStowstow]

Schneidend wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

How is it moronic that someone would create an opinion off the information he's been given? Blame the information for being limited, I suppose.

His grandfather's opinion isn't moronic, but the idea the OP is attempting to convey by saying "my grandfather thinks Renegade Sheps are douches, and he was totally in the army" certainly is moronic.

The idea he was trying to convey is that no one treats people the way a renegade Shepard does. In real life, if you disrespect your troops, they disrespect you, which could get you, them, or everyone killed. It would be like not doing any of the loyalty missions, or getting the ship upgrades.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Schneidend wrote...

So...because you showed your grandfather a narrow view of Renegade Shepards by just picking every dickbag option the game offers, and your grandfather didn't like it...Renegade is bad?

All due respect to your war veteran grandfather, that's moronic.

With all due respect, you seem to think this is a "Renegade is bad" thread when it is clearly a "Gramps disapproves of Renegade" thread. big difference.

Modifié par Homey C-Dawg, 25 décembre 2010 - 01:32 .

[Schneidend]

A Renegade Shepard doesn't have to deride his crew to be a Renegade Shepard. I maxed out the Renegade meter in both games without being xenophobic/racist or a jerk to the crew. Picking every Renegade option you can get your hands on is not the essence of being a Renegade Shepard.



And, as for you grandfather, I don't doubt his veteran status, but being a soldier does not make him the arbiter of video game ethics.

[Hathur]

Encarmine wrote...

Interesting, i dont want to sound evil, but your not that Creative Writer are you? About two weeks ago, somone with a similer name posted a long story about how Thane and His son reminded this person about his father and his own life, and how his father had since passed away, it got allot of responces, but then turned out to be a fictional story. Are you that same person?

most certainly not... I'm not even a writer, I'm a municpal waste management worker (or the less glorified term "garbage man".. but it pays well).

Modifié par Hathur, 25 décembre 2010 - 01:34 .

[Pacifien]

Hathur wrote...
most certainly not... I'm not even a writer, I'm a municpal waste management worker (or the less glorified term "garbage man".. but it pays well).

Thanks for taking my trash out, man!

What? You try living without someone taking away your trash for awhile and see how you like it.

But I suppose someone suspecting you are trying to spin a tale for the emotional response of the readers should be a compliment to the story being well told.

[Hathur]

I'd also like to add... despite what my gradfather thinks, I don't dislike the Renegade.. I've played Renegade a lot as well and find it fun... it's science fiction, this stuff for me is easy to swallow.



I was simply sharing how it was amusing to hear grandfather's take on leadership (which plays a significant role in ME)... He can't abide by the notion of a commander like Renegade Shepard saving the galaxy because of his horrific experiences in the war...



I on the other hand can, because I've never had to deal with it... nevertheless, it was utterly fascinating to hear his perspective on the subject since it's not something I (or frankly many of us) could ever relate to or conceive.



I'm cool with mean Shep saving the galaxy - I want mean shep in ME3.... Gramps doesn't

[upsettingshorts]

Great post OP - it touches on I think a major problem with Renegade Shepard's writing: He just isn't a consistent character.



I think it'd be interesting - though your grandfather probably wouldn't enjoy being used as an experiment, maybe it'd work for ME3 - if you recorded a playthrough that used cheats to unlock all the options and then mixed and matched. Say you take the Renegade options that are limited to ones that don't opt for unnecessary if principled risks or maybe just use the Renegade options when dealing with criminals, mercenaries, psycopaths and other bad guys. Stow the rest and see how he feels then.



My problem with Shepard - both of them really - is that it's a false dichotomy. If you label every decision as Paragon or Renegade often very different motivations and very different outcomes and very different approaches will blend together in ways that aren't consistent and don't make sense. This wouldn't be a problem at all if the player was given freedom to choose either angle at any given time, using his own idea of what Shepard's thinking in a given situation, as opposed to simply trying to accumulate points towards some gameplay mechanic.

[Schneidend]

Pacifien wrote...
His grandfather is conveying why he dislikes
renegade Shepard using his own experience in the military for
comparison. How that is moronic escapes me other than perhaps you
dislike the fact that someone with military experience could dare put
the comparison in a bad light.

Some people in the military will
find renegade Shepard to be distasteful and a poor leader. Others will
disagree. As much as people would like to think that the people in the
military have a hive mind, I know that they do not. They are renegades
and paragons still.

His grandfather is free to think whatever he likes. That IS NOT what I am objecting to. What I am finding questionable is the tone through which we are told his grandfather's supposed opinion.

The grandfather says "I don't like Renegade Shepard. He's a jerk." That's fine, as that is his supposed grandfather's opinion which he is perfectly entitled to.

"Renegade is bad because my grandfather was in the army and he said so," is what the OP is actually saying himself.

Just look at an excerpt of his recent response to me:

Hathur wrote...

He's qualified to say what kind of man (or woman) it takes to lead others into battle.... I doubt you are (unless you've either lead in actual combat, or followed as a soldier)... his opinion is a Paragon Commander instills confidence into his troops sufficiently to earn their trust and ensure they'll fight their hardest.... Renegade Shepard would be left to die on most fields of battle.... or shot in the back at the first opportunity.

[Weskerr]

Hathur wrote...

Encarmine wrote...

Interesting, i dont want to sound evil, but your not that Creative Writer are you? About two weeks ago, somone with a similer name posted a long story about how Thane and His son reminded this person about his father and his own life, and how his father had since passed away, it got allot of responces, but then turned out to be a fictional story. Are you that same person?

most certainly not... I'm not even a writer, I'm a municpal waste management worker (or the less glorified term "garbage man".. but it pays well).

Maybe you should quit your day job and become a writer.

[Hathur]

Pacifien wrote...

Hathur wrote...
most certainly not... I'm not even a writer, I'm a municpal waste management worker (or the less glorified term "garbage man".. but it pays well).

Thanks for taking my trash out, man!

What? You try living without someone taking away your trash for awhile and see how you like it.

But I suppose someone suspecting you are trying to spin a tale for the emotional response of the readers should be a compliment to the story being well told.

If I had the creativity to make up the stuff my grandfather told me about, then I sure as hell picked the wrong profession

[adam_grif]

Hathur wrote...

most certainly not... I'm not even a writer, I'm a municpal waste management worker (or the less glorified term "garbage man".. but it pays well).

Not really sure why, but I just thought about some story from ages back where a character chastized someone for putting broken class in their garbage bin, because "What if the garbage man cuts his hand?"

Maybe you should quit your day job and become a writer.

Some people enjoy having money too much to be a professional writer.

Modifié par adam_grif, 25 décembre 2010 - 01:41 .

[ObserverStatus]