392 réponses à ce sujet

[Zaxares]

A very fascinating story, Hathur. Thank you, and your grandfather, for sharing it.



To echo another poster though, I would also love to know your grandfather's opinion of Ronald Taylor (a man who wasn't suited to leadership and abused his power) and Zaeed.

[didymos1120]

Schneidend wrote...

All due respect to your war veteran grandfather, that's moronic.

Why is that whenever someone says  "with all due respect" they really mean....

[didymos1120]

What I wanna know: what did Gramps think of Kirrahe and his "Hold the Line" speech?

[ObserverStatus]

I can't believe your grandpa thinks that the prize is "just there" though...

[Hathur]

Bio-Boy 3000 wrote...

Quite the entertaining read if I do say so. Was it just FemShep that you showed your grandfather or did you mix any of the MaleShep in there as well? Why I am asking is because I found that Jennifer Hale gives a much stronger performance that Mark Meer and I enjoyed playing with my Paragon FemShep considerably more.

He only saw femshep paragon, not male paragon.. but I showed him male shep renegade (at his request he wanted to see the male version). I chose to show him femshep since it was my preferred voice actor version... I didn't want to go through a full version of male paragon shepard again when I strongly preferred femshep paragon's acting.

My renegades are mostly male though... Mark Meer sells mean bastard really well 

[JG The Gamer]

Awesome story. Puts a lot in perspective the view of Paragon Shepards.

Love the line 'Honour Before Reason'. Another reason not to give The Illusive Man the Collector Base or to try and save the Council. The Allies won World War II last I checked.

That said, I have a gut feeling Paragon Shepard would defeat Renegade Shepard if two identical teams went head to head. Sure Renegade Shepard sounds like a badass, but if you could choose, which Shepard would you want leading you into battle. The one who inspires, or the one who threatens?

Even in my own workplace, my bosses have changed over time. The bosses who were nice, everyone could rally behind him/her. They were tough at times, but caring and compassionate when necessary. Other managers, everyone wanted them gone, even in other departments. Had their moments, but nobody could stand to be around them.

[upsettingshorts]

None of my Renegades were mean bastards at all. And by Renegade, I mean Paragade leaning Renegade. Because I cheated (see previous posts)

[Knoll Argonar]

Wow, Thanks for the story. Tell your grandpa I respect him. Great post!

[TMZuk]

That was an interesting story, thanks for sharing.



I find it amusing that some of the posters here uses the term moronic, because OP's granddad has an opinion. It's a video-game, a fictional tale. An interactive space-opera flick. If it was an ordinary movie with a Sheperd being either renegade or paragon, we would have an opinion about him/her, as we do with Han Solo, Captain Picard, Darth Vader, and whomever else you can think off.



If someone feels differently than you about Han Solo, that doesn't really make them moronic. If someone dislikes renegade Shep, because they think he/she is an *******, it doesn't make them moronic either.

[Costin_Razvan]

Love the line 'Honour Before Reason'. Another reason not to give The Illusive Man the Collector Base or to try and save the Council. The Allies won World War II last I checked.

And you completely missed the whole point.

[Hathur]

bobobo878 wrote...

I can't believe your grandpa thinks that the prize is "just there" though...

LOL, he actually never saw any romances except for Femshep + Kaidan in Me1... stayed faithful in Me2 so he only saw that quiet moment shep has with the photo (which he approved of... I knew he'd hate the character if she was unfaithful hehe, my grandfather has been married to my grandmother since '51).

[upsettingshorts]

JG The Gamer wrote...

The Allies won World War II last I checked.

The Allies also firebombed Dresden and Tokyo (US and UK).  The Allies also used atomic weapons (US).  The Allies also used human wave tactics (The Soviets).  The Allies matched the Axis (US to Germany) in unrestricted submarine warfare - something the former found abhorrent enough in World War I to use as at least a partial justification to enter the conflict.  The Allies (US) also interned people on the basis of ethnicity.   The Allies (UK) also did nothing to stop the bombing of their own city as to protect the knowledge that they had cracked the German communication codes.

That just goes to what I'm saying about the false dichotomy Mass Effect 1-2 forces on the player.  Taking the example to an extreme, Paragon Shepard wouldn't have done a single thing listed above.  Renegade Shepard would have done all of those things, plus executed prisoners and participated in ethnic cleansing.  That's why the system is flawed.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 décembre 2010 - 01:53 .

[Schneidend]

TMZuk wrote...
I find it amusing that some of the posters here
uses the term moronic, because OP's granddad has an opinion. It's a
video-game, a fictional tale. An interactive space-opera flick. If it
was an ordinary movie with a Sheperd being either renegade or paragon,
we would have an opinion about him/her, as we do with Han Solo, Captain
Picard, Darth Vader, and whomever else you can think off.

If
someone feels differently than you about Han Solo, that doesn't really
make them moronic. If someone dislikes renegade Shep, because they think
he/she is an *******, it doesn't make them moronic either.

Again, the intention was not to call the OP's supposed grandfather or his opinion "moronic."
The OP's attempt to use his grandfather's purely subjective opinion as some kind of objective fact to propose that Renegade Shepard is wrong/stupid/poor leadership material/etc. is what I was referring to as "moronic."

Modifié par Schneidend, 25 décembre 2010 - 01:54 .

[Aggie Punbot]

Encarmine wrote...

Interesting, i dont want to sound evil, but your not that Creative Writer are you? About two weeks ago, somone with a similer name posted a long story about how Thane and His son reminded this person about his father and his own life, and how his father had since passed away, it got allot of responces, but then turned out to be a fictional story. Are you that same person?

Yeah, I'm getting the whole 'This story is made up' vibe from this thread as well.

But if it's not, I wonder how grandpa would respond to a renegade Shepard that was ruthless to his enemies and humane and kind to his allies (which is not what you showed him). Making tough choices doesn't make you bad or "incompetant"; in the ME universe it makes you pragmatic. What's at stake in ME is far, far beyond the fate of one nation or several; it's the entire glaxy at stake. Trillions upon trillions of lives will be affected by the choices you make. It's not a bad thing to play it safe rather than risk everyone's safety on the naive hope that no one ever lies to you about their intentions.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:18 .

[Eradyn]

I believe the OP has made it sufficiently clear already that his grandfather's opinion of renegade Shepard is in regard to R.Shep's ability to successfully lead his/her team on a suicide mission while being a complete **** to them. In his grandfather's stated opinion, while comparing to his life experiences in the military during WWII (and I thank your grandfather, sincerely, for his sacrifices for the world), such an individual would not be able to effectively gain the loyalty of, rally, and empower his troops to a victory and would likely risk getting shot in the back by said troops for such behavior. This based upon his own experiences and witnessing while serving in WWII.

Modifié par Eradyn, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:17 .

[Hathur]

Schneidend wrote...

Again, the intention was not to call the OP's supposed grandfather or his opinion "moronic."
The OP's attempt to use his grandfather's purely subjective opinion as some kind of objective fact to propose that Renegade Shepard is wrong/stupid/poor leadership material/etc. is what I was referring to as "moronic."

I should point out I repeatedly defended the renegade.. I like that it exists in game.. the post wasn't about bashing Renegade... the post was about simply sharing the thoughts of my extremely old grandfather (who can barely read text anymore, let alone type).. who happens to love the ME franchise... who happens to have shared his thoughts and opinions on Leadership... and why he personally found 1 type of leader in the game believable, and not the other.

His story enthralled me, so I shared it because I assumed like-minded gamers of my generation and younger would be semi-interested. I personally think Renegade Shep is fine.... the game is fiction... weird stuff works in fiction.

My grandfather can accept weird aliens and do-hicky science terms and concepts... but he couldn't cope with 1 fundamental aspect of the renegade shepard... I can.. you can... most people can.

He can't. But then again, none of us had to serve under cruel officers who shout at you "Get up and take that hill, don't stop until you take it or until you're dead!"... so I think we can forgive him perhaps this once if he can believe in super space monsters out to take the galaxy.... but not accept that men would willingly fight and die for a bully

[Aggie Punbot]

JG The Gamer wrote...

I have a gut feeling Paragon Shepard would defeat Renegade Shepard if two identical teams went head to head. Sure Renegade Shepard sounds like a badass, but if you could choose, which Shepard would you want leading you into battle. The one who inspires, or the one who threatens?

My Shepard is a Renegade and he inspires his squad through his determination and ruthlessness to his enemies (and not towards them). I expect my Renegade Shepard would win.

Also, any soldier that deliberately gets their CO (or fellow troops) killed simply because they didn't like them doesn't deserve to wear the uniform and is just as bad as any despot I can think of.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:08 .

[RAF1940]

You have the coolest grandpa ever.

[Chala]

The best OP I saw in a forum in all my life, coherent, interesting, intelligent, and with a morale. If you play as renegade you can see that everything is leading to this: "the history books don't tell you of CO's who were mysteriously left alone in enemy territory", if you do the renegade path all the time, you'll be alone, no support from the other 3 mayor species (council dead) not enough krogan, no geth support (legion is sold) few quarians from the possible conflict between them and the geth, etc

[Aggie Punbot]

I'd actually be interested in hearing your grandpa's opinion of the renegade decisions and not just the renegade options with how he treated his crew.

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

If you play as renegade you can see that everything is leading to this: "the history books don't tell you of CO's who were mysteriously left alone in enemy territory", if you do the renegade path all the time, you'll be alone, no support from the other 3 mayor species (council dead) not enough krogan, no geth support (legion is sold) few quarians from the possible conflict between them and the geth, etc

Untrue; my renegade Shepard saved the Rachni Queen, saved Wrex, rewrote the geth and advised the quarians not to go to war. And I restate my opinion that any soldier that deliberately leaves their comrades to die (when it's not absolutely necessary like it was on Virmire) is not someone to be admired.

A lot of people seem to think that Renegade Shepard means doing EVERYTHING in the worst possible way. It's not. In fact, in ME1 it is possible (given the right circumstances) to make every major paragon decision and still max out your renegade meter (including letting Balak go).

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:17 .

[sinosleep]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Untrue; my renegade Shepard saved the Rachni Queen, saved Wrex, rewrote the geth and advised the quarians not to go to war. And I restate my opinion that any soldier that deliberately leaves their comrades to die is not someone to be admired.

+ 1 You can get the "paragon" solution through renegade means in nearly every decision. It's just that instead of saying "Are you really sorry? Do you promise to never do this again? Ok be on your way" you wind up saying "Get the hell out of here before I shove this gun where the sun don't shine." 

Honestly I think that full renegade Shep is an ass and full paragon Shep is INCREDIBLY naive. A mix of paragon and renegade choices (mostly paragon for crew, mostly renegade for other's is my preferred method, with quite a bit of paragon solution by renegade means type choices thrown in there) is the only believable way to go IMO.

Modifié par sinosleep, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:20 .

[upsettingshorts]

TS2Aggie wrote...

A lot of people seem to think that Renegade Shepard means doing EVERYTHING in the worat possible way. It's not. In fact, in ME1 it is possible (given the right circumstances) to make every major paragon decision and still max out your renegade meter (including letting Balak go).

It's possible with a lot of metagaming and foreknowledge of decisions yet to come, even if all you're doing is simply managing your Charm/Intimidate or Paragon/Renegade scores optimally.

My issue is that, given normal first playthrough conditions if the player does not want to miss out on potential options they must remain consistent, therefore Paragon and Renegade actions should reflect that consistency.  They do not, and Renegade is the worst offender because it marries Shepard the killer, to Shepard the coldly expedient problem solver, to Shepard the ruthless and determined, to Shepard the human supremecist, to Shepard the jerk who just doesn't like people, to Shepard the impatient.   There's a term for the kind of person who would share all the traits of a consistently Renegade Shepard: a sociopath. 

sinosleep wrote...

 full paragon Shep is INCREDIBLY naive. Some where in the middle is the only way to go.

I agree completely.  Full Paragon Shepard has its share of problems as well.  I cheat so I can play Paragade so I don't have to deal with either full route.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:21 .

[Aggie Punbot]

sinosleep wrote...

+ 1 You can get the "paragon" solution through renegade means in nearly every decision. It's just that instead of saying "Are you really sorry? Do you promise to never do this again? Ok be on your way" you wind up saying "Get the hell out of here before I shove this gun where the sun don't shine." 

Honestly I think that full renegade Shep is an ass and full paragon Shep is INCREDIBLY naive. Some where in the middle is the only way to go.

Exactly. The OP's grandpa didn't get a full look at not only what a renegade is but how it can come about.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

*awesome post*

Yup, I agree. It's more about game mechanics than anything else, really.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:25 .

[Schneidend]

Hathur wrote...
"Get up and take that hill, don't stop until you take it or until you're dead!"

That just sounds like standard grunt chest-pounding to me. I'd rather hear that than have a sergeant tell me to "take that hill, but it's totally okay if your attempt is unsuccessful, you're special and great either way."

Did your grandfather manage to get through his military career without ever being under the tutelage of a drill sergeant?

So, according to your grandfather, a Shepard telling his squad to kick more ass is about to get shot in the back? That sounds strangely whiney for a military man.

TS2Aggie wrote...
My Shepard is a Renegade and he inspires his squad through his determination and ruthlessness to his enemies (and not towards them). I expect my Renegade Shepard would win.

Also, any soldier that deliberately gets their CO (or fellow troops) killed simply because they didn't like them doesn't deserve to wear the uniform and is just as bad as any despot I can think of.

I agree on both points. My Shepard's much the same. If the crew isn't inspired when Darius Shepard goes toe-to-toe and shotgun-to-shotgun with a krogan warrior, then the crew is one tough crowd.