392 réponses à ce sujet

[sinosleep]

Also, as a fellow veteran, I'd like to thank your grandfather for his service. And it's cool as hell of you to fraps your gameplay and put it on disc for him. Really cool way to expose people who missed out on our generation of gaming to the story telling that's possible through games these days.

[joriandrake]

Weskerr wrote...

Hathur wrote...

Encarmine wrote...

Interesting, i dont want to sound evil, but your not that Creative Writer are you? About two weeks ago, somone with a similer name posted a long story about how Thane and His son reminded this person about his father and his own life, and how his father had since passed away, it got allot of responces, but then turned out to be a fictional story. Are you that same person?

most certainly not... I'm not even a writer, I'm a municpal waste management worker (or the less glorified term "garbage man".. but it pays well).

Maybe you should quit your day job and become a writer.

Actually, go sign up at Bioware or Obsidian.

[ShaggyWolf]

Thanks for sharing Hathur. Makes me appreciate my Shepard more. Say hi and tell him thanks for the story and his service in the war

[Aggie Punbot]

I think we can all agree on one thing, though: we wouldn't necessarily make the same decisions in the real world as we do in a video game.

[joriandrake]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

A lot of people seem to think that Renegade Shepard means doing EVERYTHING in the worat possible way. It's not. In fact, in ME1 it is possible (given the right circumstances) to make every major paragon decision and still max out your renegade meter (including letting Balak go).

It's possible with a lot of metagaming and foreknowledge of decisions yet to come, even if all you're doing is simply managing your Charm/Intimidate or Paragon/Renegade scores optimally.

My issue is that, given normal first playthrough conditions if the player does not want to miss out on potential options they must remain consistent, therefore Paragon and Renegade actions should reflect that consistency.  They do not, and Renegade is the worst offender because it marries Shepard the killer, to Shepard the coldly expedient problem solver, to Shepard the ruthless and determined, to Shepard the human supremecist, to Shepard the jerk who just doesn't like people, to Shepard the impatient.   There's a term for the kind of person who would share all the traits of a consistently Renegade Shepard: a sociopath. 

sinosleep wrote...

 full paragon Shep is INCREDIBLY naive. Some where in the middle is the only way to go.

I agree completely.  Full Paragon Shepard has its share of problems as well.  I cheat so I can play Paragade so I don't have to deal with either full route.

My main Shepard is a paragon, but in ME1 he made some "bad" decisions, in ME2 it was nearly always easy to pick only the paragon choices. I still loved to be as much diplomatic as one can be, with full persuation. I persuated Saren to shot himself, and the "female mafia boss" to change her life and become good.

I only did two renegade actions in ME2, I don't remember one but the other one was to kill the technician who worked on that "Helicopter" to minimalize enemy armament power, and while I was shocked on how the renegade option handled it I didn't feel sorry after it, especially as how Garrus got shot afterwards.

I only have a single paragon action that I regret, that is letting the mercenary chick flee that claimed she just recently joined and was innocent, still, I probably would do it again as at that time Shepard has no evidence against her, you can't lock her up anywhere (sadly no option for that), and shooting her just feels too wrong at that time.


Here are some images of my main Shep btw if anyone is interested.

social.bioware.com/44707/albums/889010

Modifié par joriandrake, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:39 .

[Chala]

TS2Aggie wrote...

I'd actually be interested in hearing your grandpa's opinion of the renegade decisions and not just the renegade options with how he treated his crew.

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

If you play as renegade you can see that everything is leading to this: "the history books don't tell you of CO's who were mysteriously left alone in enemy territory", if you do the renegade path all the time, you'll be alone, no support from the other 3 mayor species (council dead) not enough krogan, no geth support (legion is sold) few quarians from the possible conflict between them and the geth, etc

Untrue; my renegade Shepard saved the Rachni Queen, saved Wrex, rewrote the geth and advised the quarians not to go to war. And I restate my opinion that any soldier that deliberately leaves their comrades to die (when it's not absolutely necessary like it was on Virmire) is not someone to be admired.

A lot of people seem to think that Renegade Shepard means doing EVERYTHING in the worst possible way. It's not. In fact, in ME1 it is possible (given the right circumstances) to make every major paragon decision and still max out your renegade meter (including letting Balak go).

I said: renegade path ALL THE TIME. {smile} with this I'm implying being a douchebag in EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING

[Da_Lion_Man]

Great OP.

Modifié par Da_Lion_Man, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:56 .

[joriandrake]

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

I'd actually be interested in hearing your grandpa's opinion of the renegade decisions and not just the renegade options with how he treated his crew.

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

If you play as renegade you can see that everything is leading to this: "the history books don't tell you of CO's who were mysteriously left alone in enemy territory", if you do the renegade path all the time, you'll be alone, no support from the other 3 mayor species (council dead) not enough krogan, no geth support (legion is sold) few quarians from the possible conflict between them and the geth, etc

Untrue; my renegade Shepard saved the Rachni Queen, saved Wrex, rewrote the geth and advised the quarians not to go to war. And I restate my opinion that any soldier that deliberately leaves their comrades to die (when it's not absolutely necessary like it was on Virmire) is not someone to be admired.

A lot of people seem to think that Renegade Shepard means doing EVERYTHING in the worst possible way. It's not. In fact, in ME1 it is possible (given the right circumstances) to make every major paragon decision and still max out your renegade meter (including letting Balak go).

I said: renegade path ALL THE TIME. {smile} with this I'm implying being a douchebag in EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING

"with this I'm implying being a douchebag in EVERYONE"   ...  

[Bigdoser]

I think his grandpa means that he does not like the way renegade deals with his squad not the actual choices of renegade and vice versa. Personally i am paragon with a slight mix of renegade.

[Lord Zeuss]

@OP: Great read for this Christmas Eve. It's easy, so very easy, for gamers to lose track of what their games are supposed to be representing. Please give your Grandpa my thanks for this reminder and for his sacrifices.

[DarkSeraphym]

Bigdoser wrote...

I think his grandpa means that he does not like the way renegade deals with his squad not the actual choices of renegade and vice versa. Personally i am paragon with a slight mix of renegade.

I'm glad his grandpa didn't get to see the end of Mass Effect 2 for ReneShep when has has to decide whether or not to give up a potential helping hand during the Suicide Mission to make sure that the crew gets back safely.

[Chala]

joriandrake wrote...

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

I'd actually be interested in hearing your grandpa's opinion of the renegade decisions and not just the renegade options with how he treated his crew.

El_Chala_Legalizado wrote...

If you play as renegade you can see that everything is leading to this: "the history books don't tell you of CO's who were mysteriously left alone in enemy territory", if you do the renegade path all the time, you'll be alone, no support from the other 3 mayor species (council dead) not enough krogan, no geth support (legion is sold) few quarians from the possible conflict between them and the geth, etc

Untrue; my renegade Shepard saved the Rachni Queen, saved Wrex, rewrote the geth and advised the quarians not to go to war. And I restate my opinion that any soldier that deliberately leaves their comrades to die (when it's not absolutely necessary like it was on Virmire) is not someone to be admired.

A lot of people seem to think that Renegade Shepard means doing EVERYTHING in the worst possible way. It's not. In fact, in ME1 it is possible (given the right circumstances) to make every major paragon decision and still max out your renegade meter (including letting Balak go).

I said: renegade path ALL THE TIME. {smile} with this I'm implying being a douchebag in EVERYONE AND EVERYTHING

"with this I'm implying being a douchebag in EVERYONE"   ...  

ooops, my bad!! I speak spanish jajajja

[Hathur]

Schneidend wrote...

Hathur wrote...
"Get up and take that hill, don't stop until you take it or until you're dead!"

That just sounds like standard grunt chest-pounding to me. I'd rather hear that than have a sergeant tell me to "take that hill, but it's totally okay if your attempt is unsuccessful, you're special and great either way."

Did your grandfather manage to get through his military career without ever being under the tutelage of a drill sergeant?

So, according to your grandfather, a Shepard telling his squad to kick more ass is about to get shot in the back? That sounds strangely whiney for a military man.

You have a very movie-like understanding of warfare... you put too much faith into cinema if you believe the cliched screaming drill sergeant is the same man leading men on the field of war.

Drill Sergeants break men down.. that's their job - it needs to be done to re-condition men into how they think.

On the field of battle, that same screaming barking drill sergeant would have no hope of getting his men to move out of prone positions after their position was strafed with enemy fire... he'd sound no different than the young men who themselves are now screaming or shouting in fright, not knowing for certain what to do at that moment.

Calm, collected officers will issue orders to their men while under fire. The men will listen because what they want is a semblance of normalcy... they instinctually want to follow someone who looks like they know what they're doing and has a grip on the situation.... An officer screaming "Get your asses up and move to that cover!" is less likely to get an ideal response than the CO who calmly tells explains to his men what they're going to do. "Boys, we're not sitting here to get picked off or encircled, alright? Let's pickup shop and move to those rocks for cover."

If you think men under fire listen to a raving lunatic screaming at them, then you've seen to many films.

Drill sergeants are NOT commanding officers in wartime. (These type of people sadly exist in wartime.. and they have a habit of getting their men killed at a dispproportionate rate to that of a calm office).

Fear has a habit of breaking men in battle.... drill sergeants just instill more fear.. and that won't get a frightened soldier out of his foxhole to fight. A confident leader who remains calm will soothe some of that fear the soldier feels and give him enough confidence to do as he's told and fight back.

Modifié par Hathur, 25 décembre 2010 - 03:20 .

[HBC Dresden]

Thanks for the interesting read. I am a World War II buff and love hearing the information that is usually left out of the history books, information like this. Not only did you combine two of my passions: Mass Effect and real history, your grandpa did too. Love it when other generations can appreciate a good story, no matter the medium. Thank him for me for his service and insight and I thank you for the post and going the extra mile so he can appreciate the series. Also, Femshep FTW!

[AntiChri5]

Did you show him the red renegade option on Tali's loyalty mission?

[Hathur]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Did you show him the red renegade option on Tali's loyalty mission?

No, he lost interest in renegade shep before I could get to it.. though I think he may have actually liked that scene because it was a case where Renegade shep was sticking up for and strongly defending a member of Shepard's team, and doing it with as much conviction as the paragon would (I personally loved that scene as much or maybe even a tad more than paragon version).

[Aggie Punbot]

I really do wish that the renegade bashing on this forum would stop.

[Schneidend]

Hathur, nowhere did you state that the hypothetical squad leader in question was "raving" like a "lunatic." You are adding that context after the fact. You previously implied only that a bad CO was offering an "or die trying" ultimatum, not that they were threatening to do the killing themselves, losing their cool, or anything of the sort.



Further, how is a commander supposed to be heard over the din of battle if they don't raise their voice? There's a reason a large percentage of veterans have PTSD, and it isn't because somebody didn't calmly whisper a suggestion of an order to their sensitive, virgin ears.

[Bigdoser]

No one is bashing renegade, people are just stating their opinion on some of the responses. 

Modifié par Bigdoser, 25 décembre 2010 - 03:44 .

[upsettingshorts]

Indeed, to be clear, if I was "bashing" anything it's the coercion mechanic that creates and enforces a false dichotomy.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 décembre 2010 - 03:45 .

[Xilizhra]

TS2Aggie wrote...

I really do wish that the renegade bashing on this forum would stop.

And I wish that Paragon bashing would stop. Except I don't, really, because this is the Internet and if either one did, it'd be a major sign of the Apocalypse.

Anyway, interesting read, with predictable reactions.

[Aggie Punbot]

Also, hard ass != incompetent; kind and understanding != perfect. Believe it or not, it is possible for a tough-as-nails commander to be just as (or more so) efficient as a gentle and kind one.

In addition, the whole idea of troops deliberately abandoning their COs to be killed in combat really disturbs me on a visceral level. I may have to reconsider my stance about soldiers being admirable in their service.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 25 décembre 2010 - 03:49 .

[upsettingshorts]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Also, hard ass != incompetent; kind and understanding != perfect.

And coldly rational != anti-alien human supremecist.

But the Paragon/Renegade system of Mass Effect says that they are the same. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 25 décembre 2010 - 03:50 .

[Bigdoser]

A tough as nails commander can still respect their troops, also why is it suprising that a soldier would abadon their CO when they treat them as cannon fodder?War is not sunshine and rainbows you expect soldiers to have 0 fears not doubts on the battlefield? I admire the fact that they can register for army to fight knowing full well that they may die.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 25 décembre 2010 - 03:53 .

[Xilizhra]

Wouldn't it be better if all of us here who don't have military experience leave the theorizing to people who do? Just in general, I'm not attacking anyone's arguments specifically or anything.