176 réponses à ce sujet

[Nohvarr]

sympathy4saren wrote...

us true rpgers.

Meaning what? What are the criteria for a 'true rpger' and why should Bioware cater to them alone?

[Khayness]

The comic will never be as awesome as fighting on the outer hull of the Citadel, kiting Thorian Creepers and asari commando clones while the Thorian shrieks, having Wrex besides you delivering witty punchlines, or bouncing off cliffs in the Mako while two burning suns light up the horizon.

Modifié par Khayness, 25 décembre 2010 - 12:41 .

[sympathy4saren]

The rpgers who helped establish BioWare, and those who enjoy the deep rpg elements we do. The ones being cast aside for a new crowd.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Khayness wrote...

The comic will never be as awesome as fighting on the outer hull of the Citadel, kiting Thorian Creepers and asari commando clones while the Thorian shrieks, having Wrex besides you delivering witty punchlines, or bouncing off cliffs in the Mako while two burning suns light up the horizon.

I don't believe the comic was ever meant to substitute for ME1's awesomeness; it's merely a mechanic that makes the import feature present for PS3 users, by allowing them to make a few select decisions while also providing them with some perspective on "the story so far". It's really no different than you tweaking the save editor in accordance to your preferences, except the PS3 users get to actually experience some context in the process.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 25 décembre 2010 - 12:52 .

[Bourne Endeavor]

Lumikki wrote...

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

I do not believe anyone is expecting nor demanding Bioware devs openly slam portions of the game even if they themselves feel it was lackluster. It is evident from a marketing standpoint that such a statement would be detrimental to the integrity of the game. There is a difference between acknowledging certainly aspects will be improved and opening a dialogue with the community to slamming one's product.

I agree, but what if developers don't agree with you as what is the aspect what requires improvements?

Do, you accept that they don't agree or do you accuse them as not acknowledging as what you known as been aspect what requires improvements?

My point here is, don't assume that they will agree with you. Even we players here have major disagreements as what are those stuff what requires improvements.

I do not assume anything and in fact made such a statement in my post. If they were to disagree on an aspect I thought could use a tweak here or there. I would be curious as to why but not beat the issue into the ground. That said I do concede I am in the minority when it comes to things like this as I imagine there would be many far more willing to argue. That is where the discussion would and should end. It is still unfortunately because of some, others simply seeking information suffer but it is not wholly unexpected.

Nohvarr wrote...

2. They did explain the changes from ME 1 to ME 2, and some portions of the fanbase dragged that argument up again and again. Had the game not been as well recieved their arguments might have held more weight, but has been established, Bioware did an excellent job in expanding ME fanbase, and a significant portion of that fanbase is seemingly very happy with the games current direction. So what's the point in reopening old wounds for a portion of the fanbase.

The first point was more or less covered above, so I shall move along. We or at least I, am not asking them to reopen old wounds. Even a game people adore is not immune to criticism nor is that significantly larger portion claiming ME2 is flawless. Admittedly, I was not active during ME's run. Thus, I do not know the backlash discussing with the fans had but it cannot be surprising that the devs suddenly being quiet has sparked speculation and drawn ire.

3. As the DA 2 team has said repeatedly, Bioware is going to do what they think is best for what the game is trying to accomplish. They can not please everyone, and engaging in long multi-page debates over a portion of a game is waste of time they could put to better use, say making the game. This is why they likely designed the game to tell them how people played it. That information is unbiased, it has no preconceptions, baggage or an agenda. That information 'is what it is' and that makes it more valuable in some respects than the feedback they get on these forums.

Once again, you presume we desire a long thorough debate. I answered this with Lumikki and would happily settle with a dialogue of any kind. The fact the DA2 team talks openly is an appreciated touch. Even if Bioware were to announce MP. I would like to hear why they feel it would improve the experience .I am disagree completely but my curious is settled. Remaining quiet gas the discomforting sense the devs may be apprehensive of the backlash. Who knows, perhaps I could be convinced to like MP. I am doubtful of this however who knows? I do know that nothing means I am approaching ME3 more meticulously.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 25 décembre 2010 - 12:55 .

[hawat333]

It does.

[Tony Gunslinger]

sympathy4saren wrote...

The rpgers who helped establish BioWare, and those who enjoy the deep rpg elements we do. The ones being cast aside for a new crowd.

ME1 wasn't even all that deep. When it came out, the people who didn't like it dismissed it as RPG lite. "True RPGers" still play Traveller and never cared about Bioware, Mass Effect, or have the audacity to call themselves by that name.

[marshalleck]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Me too. There are a lot of us that feel that way...us true rpgers. But it seems like we are the ones being attacked and ostracized. I'm trying to tell it how it is without being too rude. I've been a fan of BioWare ever since Jade Empire

I've been a fan of Bioware since Baldur's Gate 1 & 2. Does that make me more of an RPG fan than you? Does that make my opinion count more than yours?

[sympathy4saren]

Yeah it does. Of course, I played Chrono Trigger and the original The Legend of Zelda. Same boat as me, actually. Go ahead, try and team up on me. I have dozens and dozens on here that feel the same as me. Have some pride and a spine and tell it how you see it. I'm giving genuine, authentic feedback.



And I have individual liberty...I don't care what others say or don't say. Or what they do or don't call themselves.



Mass Effect has the deepest story in fiction. Ever. Anyone who says it isn't that deep is either blind, deaf or dumb.

[Nohvarr]

sympathy4saren wrote...

The rpgers who helped establish BioWare, and those who enjoy the deep rpg elements we do. The ones being cast aside for a new crowd.

So you claim ownership over Bioware because you bought their games. So did I, I've been playing Bioware games since Baldur's gate 2. I think ME 2 is possible one of the best game made by Bioware to date. Judging by the awards, a lot of people agree with my point of view. Bioware is growing, evolving the way they design games in direct response to how their customers play them. 

I find this attitude of 'I was here first they should do what I want and to heck with everyone else' disturbing. Bioware got where they were because of hard work, and producing a superior product, not because you stretched forth your hand and granted them success. Your cash does not grant you any special priviledges, say, or consideration. Your suggestions will be taken underadvisment but not taken as law.

sympathy4saren wrote...

Yeah it does. Of course, I played Chrono Trigger and the original The Legend of Zelda. Same boat as me, actually. Go ahead, try and team up on me. I have dozens and dozens on here that feel the same as me. Have some pride and a spine and tell it how you see it. I'm giving genuine, authentic feedback.

And there are far more fans of ME 1 & 2 that would likely disagree witha ll of you, do you really want to play a numbers game?

Mass Effect has the deepest story in fiction. Ever. Anyone who says it isn't that deep is either blind, deaf or dumb.

A. You're wearing rose colored glasses.

B. Your lashing out saying anything you can to pump up a game you like.

C. You haven't read, or watched that many fantastic tales by other authors.

Either way it's obvious there no reasoning with you, especially after that last statement.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:24 .

[sympathy4saren]

I find it disturbing that the shooting genre is forcing its ugly face into a franchise I love and care for.



You have your opinion.



I have mine.



Just know you're in the minority.

[marshalleck]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Yeah it does. Of course, I played Chrono Trigger and the original The Legend of Zelda. Same boat as me, actually. Go ahead, try and team up on me. I have dozens and dozens on here that feel the same as me. Have some pride and a spine and tell it how you see it. I'm giving genuine, authentic feedback.

And I have individual liberty...I don't care what others say or don't say. Or what they do or don't call themselves.

Mass Effect has the deepest story in fiction. Ever. Anyone who says it isn't that deep is either blind, deaf or dumb.

Chrono Trigger and Legend of Zelda? So did I. Big deal. Also played Dragon Warrior, the very first Final Fantasy, and Ultima series on computer before them. Oh and the gold box SSI RPGs were classics of their time.

As for Mass Effect being "the deepest story in fiction" well, now I don't think anyone can take you seriously. I don't think you're taking yourself seriously. Which is fine with me by the way, I don't see the harm in a little trollololing.

Modifié par marshalleck, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:32 .

[Nohvarr]

sympathy4saren wrote...

I find it disturbing that the shooting genre is forcing its ugly face into a franchise I love and care for.

You have your opinion.

I have mine.

Just know you're in the minority.

Right....so all those awards including this one www.gametrailers.com/video/top-10-screwattack/708821 based off gamers voting, are just an accident.

I've seen this argument before, the belief that 'the true fans' agree with you and shall rise up in righteous anger. Hasn't happened, support for ME 2 was wide spread as has been established. Your suggestions and critcism will be taken under advisment.

Also, you never did say why Bioware should pay attention to you alone?

Anyways, I don't think I'll respond to anymore of your posts, since, as you've already made up your mind, and I have no desire to beat my head against a brick wall.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:32 .

[Babli]

Nohvarr wrote...
Judging by the awards, a lot of people agree with my point of view.
 

Yeah, Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber also won plenty of mainstream awards just like Mass Effect 2.
I mean, awards means almost nothing in terms we are discussing.

[Nohvarr]

Babli wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...
Judging by the awards, a lot of people agree with my point of view.
 

Yeah, Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber also won plenty of mainstream awards just like Mass Effect 2.
I mean, awards means almost nothing in terms we are discussing.

So...you get evidance that contradicts your point of view and immediatly throw it out? Gotcha, I will keep that in mind for future discussion.

[marshalleck]

Nohvarr wrote...

Babli wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...
Judging by the awards, a lot of people agree with my point of view.
 

Yeah, Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber also won plenty of mainstream awards just like Mass Effect 2.
I mean, awards means almost nothing in terms we are discussing.

So...you get evidance that contradicts your point of view and immediatly throw it out? Gotcha, I will keep that in mind for future discussion.

Well he's got a point. McDonald's has sold billions of hamburgers, but that doesn't mean their food is good.

[Morty Smith]

sympathy4saren wrote...

I find it disturbing that the shooting genre is forcing its ugly face into a franchise I love and care for.

You have your opinion.

I have mine.

Just know you're in the minority.

Seems like you just don´t care about opinions when they differ from yours Mr. Majority.

When it was about top down group management didn´t the ugly RTS genre force it´s face into RPGs?

I thought RP in RPG comes from Role-Playing, when did Office-Exel come into play?

[Nohvarr]

marshalleck wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...

Babli wrote...

Nohvarr wrote...
Judging by the awards, a lot of people agree with my point of view.
 

Yeah, Lady Gaga and Justin Bieber also won plenty of mainstream awards just like Mass Effect 2.
I mean, awards means almost nothing in terms we are discussing.

So...you get evidance that contradicts your point of view and immediatly throw it out? Gotcha, I will keep that in mind for future discussion.

Well he's got a point. McDonald's has sold billions of hamburgers, but that doesn't mean their food is good.

Most people aren't asked to pay $50 for McDonalds.

In general things recieve awards because they'ev earned them. They fulfill some need or want of their customers, and are recognized for doing that. ME 2 recieved critical and fan acclaim, so forgive me if your attempt to discount those awards strike me as hollow.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:38 .

[marshalleck]

Winning an award when your competition is garbage also rings hollow when trying to cite it as an accomplishment. And I say that as a person who thought ME2 was a pretty good game. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:39 .

[sympathy4saren]

Hahahahahaha. Final Fantasy???? A huge piece of festering crap.



Go browse through all of the forums of Mass Effect and DA and pound your head an additional 9 dozen times, then. Did I ever say they should listen to me alone? YOU are the minority. A false assumption, then spun into an argumentative device. Very weak.

[Gibb_Shepard]

sympathy4saren wrote...

I find it disturbing that the shooting genre is forcing its ugly face into a franchise I love and care for.

You have your opinion.

I have mine.

Just know you're in the minority.

Mass Effect was always supposed to be a shooter/RPG hybrid. Don't kid yourself, ME was never a true RPG, or even a deep RPG at that. 

And what do you have against shooters? The only people i've meant who truely despise shooters are the ones that suck nuts at them.

[sympathy4saren]

Look!!! The first "troll" ad hominem. I'm stunned it took so long

[Nohvarr]

marshalleck wrote...

Winning an award when your competition is garbage also rings hollow when trying to cite it as an accomplishment. And I say that as a person who thought ME2 was a pretty good game. 

Ah yes the, 'competition was weak' attempt at discarding evidance. Again Mass Effect 2 beat out games like Star Craft 2, God of War 3, Black Ops and Halo Reach. We KNOW those game series are obscenly popular and likely should've won on fanboy/girlism alone. Yet ME 2 is the one holding the crown.

[Cyberfrog81]

I find I can't blame devs for wanting to spend their free time far away from here.



Seriously, I bet a lot of ME2 "haters" will still get ME3 and then play it with a "look for things to hate and then rant about" mindset. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

[marshalleck]

Discarding evidence? What is this, a trial or a video game forum?