176 réponses à ce sujet

[Nohvarr]

marshalleck wrote...

Discarding evidence? What is this, a trial or a video game forum?

You have to be able to back up your statements. You claimed that Bioware's awards weren't good enough, and I pointed out why that line of thought was flawed. I don't mind people making constructive criticism but this argument that 'True RPG fans' are entitled to more than your average Bioware customer strikes me as a tad elitiest.

[sympathy4saren]

Yeah, screw the customers who pay money for a product.



How many game of the year awards are there? Which one is the definitive one? I saw one where Red Dead Redemption won. I saw one where Star Craft 2 won.



For somebody talking about evidence, its convenient to have that "evidence" be so variable...

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Chris Priestly wrote...

I'd also suggest that people who complain about a "dumbed down" story, check out the recent awards ME2 has won like best RPG of the year, best story of the year, best character of the year, GAME of the year, etc.

With all due respect, "dumbed down" doesn't necessarily mean that the story isn't good, but rather it lacks the depth and intracrises that the predecessor had in order to target a wider audience.  Metal Gear Solid 3's story could be considered dumbed down from the story in MGS2, but that doesn't mean that the story wasn't fanastic or deep.

Not that I'm saying that's what ME2 was though, and not that it matters since a story doesn't need to be deep and meaningful to be enjoyable.

[marshalleck]

Nohvarr wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Discarding evidence? What is this, a trial or a video game forum?

You have to be able to back up your statements. You claimed that Bioware's awards weren't good enough, and I pointed out why that line of thought was flawed. I don't mind people making constructive criticism but this argument that 'True RPG fans' are entitled to more than your average Bioware customer strikes me as a tad elitiest.

It's both elitist and preposterous, why do you think I endorse it? Did you not read the exchange I had with sympathy4saren, the guy who actually presented it?

[Gibb_Shepard]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Look!!! The first "troll" ad hominem. I'm stunned it took so long

Way to completely avoid the question. I'm guessing you can't shoot to save your life.

[Nohvarr]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Yeah, screw the customers who pay money for a product.

Which is exactly what you said about a page back to the people who bought and enjoyed ME 2 more than you.

For somebody talking about evidence, its convenient to have that "evidence" be so variable...

I'm looking at the one voted on by actual gamers, however considering the sheer number of awards ME 2 gained from various sights, I'd argue that it suggest a positive consensue on the game itself.

Anyways, I think I'll leave things at this point with you, as your statement about ME 1 having the deepest plot ever in any work of ficition makes it hard for me to take your arguments seriously.

Modifié par Nohvarr, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:59 .

[Nohvarr]

*double post*

Modifié par Nohvarr, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:58 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

[quote]Nohvarr wrote...

[quote]sympathy4saren wrote...

Yeah, screw the customers who pay money for a product.[/quote]

Which is exactly what you said about a page back to the people who bought and enjoyed ME 2 more than you.

itself.
[quote[For somebody talking about evidence, its convenient to have that "evidence" be so variable...[/quote]

I'm looking at the one voted on by actual gamers, however considering the sheer number of awards ME 2 gained from various sights, I'd argue that it suggest a positive consensue on the game itself.

Anyways, I think I'll leave things at this point with you, as your statement about ME 1 having the deepest plot ever in any work of ficition makes it hard for me to take your arguments seriously.
[/quote]

It may not be the deepest plot ever, but it's 10x deeper than ME2's.

[Sparda Stonerule]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Hahahahahaha. Final Fantasy???? A huge piece of festering crap.

Go browse through all of the forums of Mass Effect and DA and pound your head an additional 9 dozen times, then. Did I ever say they should listen to me alone? YOU are the minority. A false assumption, then spun into an argumentative device. Very weak.

Oh you poor fool. Most people who liked Mass Effect 2 don't get on the forums because if you are just happy about something it won't drive you to the forums to talk about it. Being unhappy and dissatisfied does. So while he may be the minority on the forum, in reality he's in the vast majority. Awards may be a bit shallow, but they do show one thing. The more awards you get the more well received your game is in general. It's not an exact gauge but an overwhelming number of people love the heck out of Mass Effect 2.

Your arguments are thinly veiled at best. It just harps on "we are the true fans" "we built Bioware" "we want this why won't you listen". Those arguments are shallow and childish. Some people have valid concerns and they usually lead to high quality discussions about how things evolve. Complaining that this isn't what you wanted gets no one anything and just makes you seem like an entitled elitist who thinks he's better than everyone because they hold the very flawed idea of a majority.

Merry Christmas Bioware, keep making great games.

[sympathy4saren]

Actually, I crush at shooting. It's just mindlessly boring.



Again, an argument based on a false assumption....although I will give you the benefit of the doubt on this one....



The entirety of Mass Effect (1 & 2).

[Nohvarr]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

It may not be the deepest plot ever, but it's 10x deeper than ME2's.

A matter of opinion. I personally find the main plots treatment of the characters in ME 2 much more interesting. I also think ME 2's plot gave a better reason for what side trips you did take than in ME 1. ME 2 also gave us new information about the Geth, the Collectors, hinted at what the Reapers do with all the various races they've harvested, a better understanding of Cerberus (more than, evil rogue military organization. Still amoral but at least I can understand their motivations now), and more.

To me that makes it the better overall game, especially since ME 1 just kind of felt like an extended chase, where your trying to catch up to Saren. Here the final battle is more of a dark looming presence on the Horizon that you'll have to face, and the only way to win is to 'Earn your happy ending'.

[sympathy4saren]

Side stories....codex info....the whole works. What is it for you?



Of course, an argument on that would be moot because it is opinionated and purely speculative to objectivism.

[Sith Reaper]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Me too. There are a lot of us that feel that way...us true rpgers. But it seems like we are the ones being attacked and ostracized. I'm trying to tell it how it is without being too rude. I've been a fan of BioWare ever since Jade Empire

Sir, we are all true RPGers here. I have been here since Knights of the Old Republic, does that mean anything? The point is that we all have our own opinions on the game, and these posts that attempt to put yourself over others does not help whatsoever. Let's stick to debate of the features, shall we?

[sympathy4saren]

Yep, I'm a fool. Great one!!! Good work!!



Any more ad hominems? That all you guys have? And you sound so articulate otherwise!!!

[88mphSlayer]

i think it's obvious that ME1 was ditched already by ME2 regardless of the PS3 port or interactive comic, the choice of council made no difference thus undercutting the entire "hard decisions" point of ME1



that said, i'm not sure if this is strictly about ME1, as i believe the entire setup and scenario of ME3 will undercut ME2's hard decisions as well, i just don't think Bioware's promise of hard decisions having a major impact throughout the trilogy is feasible given the nature and general linearity of the Mass Effect trilogy as a whole



we'll still get a great trilogy of games, no doubt, but the concept of a trilogy of open ended games just isn't going to materialize

[fmsantos39]

MajesticJazz wrote...


Here is the link to the article: http://www.gamezenith.com/?p=1042


Thoughts?

I think ME2 is the one who will matter less since Yvone (Miranda) posted on her twiter she's not doing ME3, I'm just hoping she just don't know yet she's doing the game voice cause Miranda and Illusive man are the most important chars of ME2, are the ones that shows that ME2 really happened.

[Yenkaz]

I think I will just keep using http://www.masseffectsaves.com/ and my own savegame to preserve side quest choices and effects.

But, at least for xbox360 who have lost their savegames and PS3 gamers, this is fantastic.

How many choices will you have?

Modifié par Yenkaz, 25 décembre 2010 - 03:17 .

[Sparda Stonerule]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Actually, I crush at shooting. It's just mindlessly boring.

Again, an argument based on a false assumption....although I will give you the benefit of the doubt on this one....

The entirety of Mass Effect (1 & 2).

I like reading, it just isn't very active. Sure it's interesting but it doesn't take a lot of thought to read. I like driving around copy pasted maps that have about 6 things on them, it's just mindlessly boring. I love stat crunching, it's just mindlessly boring. I love walking everywhere where there is nothing between me and my goal, it's just mindlessly boring. 

See, I can do what you just did too. It isn't very hard to make terrible points.

Modifié par Sparda Stonerule, 25 décembre 2010 - 03:16 .

[Sith Reaper]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Side stories....codex info....the whole works. What is it for you?

Of course, an argument on that would be moot because it is opinionated and purely speculative to objectivism.

Actually, I need to see this - what makes Mass Effect 1 so special in terms of atmosphere? Mass Effect 1 and 2 have side stories, they both have codex information, they both have branching dialogue and quest lines. What is the difference, exactly, besides gameplay? Because if the gameplay is what made Mass Effect 1 so special, I am glad to see it gone. And this comes from someone who loves the Mass Effect 1 and 2.

[The-Person]

fmsantos39 wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...


Here is the link to the article: http://www.gamezenith.com/?p=1042


Thoughts?

I think ME2 is the one who will matter less since Yvone (Miranda) posted on her twiter she's not doing ME3, I'm just hoping she just don't know yet she's doing the game voice cause Miranda and Illusive man are the most important chars of ME2, are the ones that shows that ME2 really happened.

She didn't say she was not going to be in ME3, she said she was not allowed to say.

[Sith Reaper]

The-Person wrote...

fmsantos39 wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...


Here is the link to the article: http://www.gamezenith.com/?p=1042


Thoughts?

I think ME2 is the one who will matter less since Yvone (Miranda) posted on her twiter she's not doing ME3, I'm just hoping she just don't know yet she's doing the game voice cause Miranda and Illusive man are the most important chars of ME2, are the ones that shows that ME2 really happened.

She didn't say she was not going to be in ME3, she said she was not allowed to say.

Good - I was worried for a moment!

[Bourne Endeavor]

sympathy4saren wrote...



Hahahahahaha. Final Fantasy???? A huge piece of festering crap.



Go browse through all of the forums of Mass Effect and DA and pound your head an additional 9 dozen times, then. Did I ever say they should listen to me alone? YOU are the minority. A false assumption, then spun into an argumentative device. Very weak.

So... you condemn Bioware for your apparent belief they are ignoring you and the RPG crowd than subsequent insult one of the most celebrated RPGs in the history of the genre? Not the most effective approach. Final Fantasy may be a different take on the genre but it is still that and your disregard of it as "festering crap" somewhat hurts your creditability.



Frankly, you are doing a disservice to those of us were desire open discussion with the developers. Spewing this jazz and self-imposed entitlement only accentuates the belief they are liable to have that a thread discussing say Biotics would be a disaster. I may disagree with Nohvarr and his opinion of ME2's storyline in comparison to ME's but I respect his opinion all the same. You evidently do not and come across as a troll.

[Nohvarr]

The-Person wrote...

fmsantos39 wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...


Here is the link to the article: http://www.gamezenith.com/?p=1042


Thoughts?

I think ME2 is the one who will matter less since Yvone (Miranda) posted on her twiter she's not doing ME3, I'm just hoping she just don't know yet she's doing the game voice cause Miranda and Illusive man are the most important chars of ME2, are the ones that shows that ME2 really happened.

She didn't say she was not going to be in ME3, she said she was not allowed to say.

Journalist: *Looking Yvone over, noticing she's wearing an ME 3 Ballcap, N7 T-shirt and an ' Shepard Backpack* "Riiiight....can't say....gotcha"

[Sparda Stonerule]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

sympathy4saren wrote...

Hahahahahaha. Final Fantasy???? A huge piece of festering crap.

Go browse through all of the forums of Mass Effect and DA and pound your head an additional 9 dozen times, then. Did I ever say they should listen to me alone? YOU are the minority. A false assumption, then spun into an argumentative device. Very weak.

So... you condemn Bioware for your apparent belief they are ignoring you and the RPG crowd than subsequent insult one of the most celebrated RPGs in the history of the genre? Not the most effective approach. Final Fantasy may be a different take on the genre but it is still that and your disregard of it as "festering crap" somewhat hurts your creditability.

Frankly, you are doing a disservice to those of us were desire open discussion with the developers. Spewing this jazz and self-imposed entitlement only accentuates the belief they are liable to have that a thread discussing say Biotics would be a disaster. I may disagree with Nohvarr and his opinion of ME2's storyline in comparison to ME's but I respect his opinion all the same. You evidently do not and come across as a troll.

I would also like to throw something in here. I respect people and their desire to talk to the developers about what they'd like to see and what they think would be good for the series. I'm all for improving the series in whatever way possible. Unfortunately I'm not very creative so I can't help much in that regard. What helps no one though is ME 1 fans who steadfastly say that Mass Effect 2 is dumbed down and bad. I don't mind at all when people say they weren't too happy with it and they would have preferred something a little different. 

Only with people like you helping out will we make any real progress in evolving the series and making it the best it can possibly be. I thank you for your level headed, rational input. It's desperately needed in these times of knee jerk reactions and wild speculations.

[sympathy4saren]

Sparta stonerule...you're funny. I must have your blood boiling right now. Relax bud....and make sure you follow forum guidelines....