25 réponses à ce sujet

[Desukan]

Does he change much? I don't want him to become a depressing tyrant like person....the term I've heard "Hardened" is a bit unclear.

I've heard that he only becomes king if you harden him though?

As a female Dalish elf.....I don't suppose there is a happy ending for my character and Alistair, is there? I heard only a female human noble can become queen.  

Modifié par Desukan, 24 décembre 2010 - 11:19 .

[IanPolaris]

A hardened Alistair is in most respects a much more well adjusted person. He keeps his quirky humor, and is still very much a nice person, but he is willing to stick up for himself more and make difficult stands and he whines much, much less.



I strongly recommend hardening Alistair if you can stomache the (badly written) line. He becomes IMO a much nicer and well adjusted person if you do and much easier to deal with oddly enough.



-Polaris

[Jon Jern_]

Trust me, there is absolutely no change in his personality. He's still goofy and fun loving, and on top of that, he's more assertive and independent. I really wished Bioware expanded on this idea because the only changes in Hardened Alistair is the landsmeet situation and agreeing to a threesome with Isabela.

[Desukan]

Wow, that's not what I was expecting.



I was considering not doing it because I thought he'd become all moody and cynical. I might do it then....



If you don't harden him does he chicken out of becoming king?

[IanPolaris]

Yeah, the landsmeet change is the biggie really (although the threesome is fun). Also in the epilogs, a hardened Alistair makes a much better king than an unhardened one.



-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Desukan wrote...

If you don't harden him does he chicken out of becoming king?

He does his level best to chicken out and if you make him king anyway, he's not a very good one.

-Polaris

[Desukan]

On a side note...



That Goldanna is one poisonous, evil, cruel harpy of a woman. I'm just sorry the "cut your tounge out" dialogue option was just a figure of speech.

[IanPolaris]

Desukan wrote...

On a side note...

That Goldanna is one poisonous, evil, cruel harpy of a woman. I'm just sorry the "cut your tounge out" dialogue option was just a figure of speech.

Oh yeah.  The demons didn't have to put on much an act to mimic her in Alistair's fade dream, that's certain.

-Polaris

[Desukan]

IanPolaris wrote...

Desukan wrote...

On a side note...

That Goldanna is one poisonous, evil, cruel harpy of a woman. I'm just sorry the "cut your tounge out" dialogue option was just a figure of speech.

Oh yeah.  The demons didn't have to put on much an act to mimic her in Alistair's fade dream, that's certain.

-Polaris

The demon version of her in the fade seemed absolutely delightful compared to the actual Goldanna.

Maybe Alistair should have stayed after all.

[Reika]

Agreed with the others, "hardened" Alistair is still a good guy, he's more willing to stand up for himself. Besides the landsmeet, threesome, and epilogue, for the non HNF female wardens romancing Alistair can take the mistress ending if he's hardened. If he's not hardened, he kicks them to the curb if made king.



And the real Goldanna was quite a shocker after doing the Fade the first time.



As for the line that hardens him, you may want to consider getting IRS-A, not only did cme restore dialogue, she put in a couple of lines for the hardening that works far better than what's in the game.

[Shinobu]

Before I knew about hardening Alistair I didn't choose the correct line because I hated it, so it's nice to know there is an alternate version!

Once I found out about "hardening" I loaded a prior save game and did it. I haven't played through with unhardened Alistair but have seen some YouTube videos  -- he stays sweet but sort of sad. Once he is hardened, as Polaris said, he seems much more well adjusted. Still funny and sweet but he will occasionally refuse to do what you ask unless you have a good reason for asking. ("Because I said so" doesn't work as well on hardened Alistair.) If you have a low persuade and choose some really counterintuitive dialog options this can turn into a problem in one specific instance, but I doubt you'll fall into it.

As for Goldanna, I feel sorry for her. She was utterly used by Eamon. Who wouldn't be bitter in her situation? There's a nice gap-filler fanfic about it here.

As for your Dalish ending up with Alistair, it is possible! You can't be queen, but you can still remain in a romantic relationship with him. I won't spoil it unless you want directions, though. (My first playthrough I cheated and did all the "correct" things to get him to stay with my CE, but wonder if I missed out by not playing "blind.") Good luck!

[testing123]

 I'll offer a differing opinion I suppose.  I never harden Alistair.  As the others have stated, for the most part Alistair remains the same glib smart ass you met at the beginning of the game, but the changes that do occur are mostly unsavory for me.  Basically, when you harden Alistair you are warping his idealistic frame of mind into a more 'me first' personality.  The advantage is he actually gains a spine and shows some assertiveness.  However, this comes at the price of some of his... chivalry?  From the mostly minor changes that occur you can see that he has become more indulgent and more willing to participate in activities he would previously have thought... less than honorable.  

The 'hardening' situation as it's presented to me as a player feels like manipulation.  Obviously, that may not be a big deal to most people.  It is probably worth noting that an unhardened King Alistair runs the tremendous risk of becoming a puppet.  Alistair absolutely needs the assertiveness you can give him if you plan to put him on the throne.  Since I have no ambition to king Alistair, I also don't feel the need to shatter his charming little ideal world.  

What is most interesting to me is how hardening Alistair can change the way a player perceives some of his 'default' actions.  The most notable instance is at the Landsmeet, should you choose to spare Loghain.  When an unhardened Alistair objects, presumably for the first time ever in his entire life, his motives might be interpreted as more pure.  The player might think that Alistair truly believes that Loghain is deserving of justice.  However, if you take a hardened Alistair to the Landsmeet, it colors his objections in a new light.  He has already shown himself to be more indulgent and assertive in taking whatever he wants; the player has plenty of reason to believe that Alistair is only out for revenge.

Modifié par jvee, 25 décembre 2010 - 08:08 .

[gethslayer7]

not sure

[White_Buffalo94]

He is better almost all the way around. If you want the throne for yourself as a male noble however, you shouldn't harden him.

He is still sarcastic and funny and a devoted friend in all resoects. He is just not willing to bend over and take peoples crap after that.

[White_Buffalo94]

Well Alistair does admit he doesn't mind marrying a beautiful woman, BUT I also remember him saying that he isn't going to just move out of the way of Anora and Loghain (Who he considers tyrants), so he wants to be King to make everything better. If he marries Anora, that's more support for him. I however got them to agree to marry, let Al cut Loghains head off, then made him the sovereign ruler

[Merilsell]

Desukan wrote...
As a female Dalish elf.....I don't suppose there is a happy ending for my character and Alistair, is there? I heard only a female human noble can become queen.

Oh there is, believe me *snickers*

Just don't let Alistair duel Loghain at the Landsmeet and do it yourself. Then you have still the choice who will rule Ferelden. Just  wave and grin sweetly at Anora, then shove the crown to her and you are ready to go for a happy life as Wardens with Alistair. Well...almost, considering there is still an archdemon to fight.

He will even indirectly thank you afterwards for jumping the bullet that the kingship is. Even hardened.

[ejoslin]

Desukan wrote...

Does he change much? I don't want him to become a depressing tyrant like person....the term I've heard "Hardened" is a bit unclear.

I've heard that he only becomes king if you harden him though?

As a female Dalish elf.....I don't suppose there is a happy ending for my character and Alistair, is there? I heard only a female human noble can become queen.  

You can always make Anora solo queen...  THEN Alistair can really have the life he wants -- as a gray warden by the side of the woman he loves.  Why should a dalish elf care about a bloodline that no one but Ferelden nobles care about? Especially since most of them don't really care about it.

Or you can make him the king he never wanted to be and settle for being his mistress if you harden him.

Hardening him doesn't make him more selfish so much as more confident.  he is more practical if he's hardened as well and doesn't put as much stock into dreams.  He rules more with his head than with his heart.  It's easier for him to accept a political marriage of any kind if he's hardened.

now, you will never get him to marry a non-HNF, hardened or no.  But anyone can get a ride-off-into-the-sunset happy ending with him.

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:37 .

[errant_knight]

Mezzil wrote...

It takes a lower level of persuade in some cases to get hardened Alistair to do what you want. Like when you get him to marry Anora. How does that show he is more likely to do what he wants?

I'd say it shows how much more he wants to be king than he used to. He's even willing to consider marrying Anora to cement the deal. Not that he wouldn't prefer a different approach.

Or that the writer's wanted the option to be possible for the majority of PC builds. One or the other.

Modifié par errant_knight, 25 décembre 2010 - 04:04 .

[testing123]

Mezzil wrote...

It takes a lower level of persuade in some cases to get hardened Alistair to do what you want. Like when you get him to marry Anora. How does that show he is more likely to do what he wants?

What I said was he becomes more self indulgent.  He learns to protect his own interests.

Do you think that an unhardened Alistair wants to dump his love interest when he becomes king?  Hardening Alistair simply removes the obstacle of his 'honorable ethics.'  You tell him that everyone is out for themselves and he might as well be too.  So that is exactly what he does.  He starts to look out for number one since he realizes no one else will.

It is easier to persuade a hardened Alistair to marry Anora because he can see past the political calculation and into what being king would mean for him.  As I said earlier, it makes him less of an idealist and more of a pragmatist, though you cannot change his nature completely.

 

[ashliij]

Well, I always prefer hardening Alistair because he doesn't change his personality, but seems to have more of a clear head throughout dialogue and plot events.



You can't become queen, no, because of race differences. But making Anora queen on her own, not wed to Alistair let's you two stay together regardless.

[Fyre Fry]

I've been looking for any information regarding a bug that may make Alistair seem unwilling to be King, even though you did choose the right responses to ensure he becomes Hardened... apparently that is not the case in regards to what I'm seeing. I'm still on my 1st play through of Origins, and I've been following the guides (at least I think I have) to ensure he's Hardened, so I can have him be king, become queen alongside him (my Warden is Human Noble Female) and also have Leliana along with me as my mistress.

However, I am nearing the end of this play through (I only have the Landsmeet and Final Battle to do) and he seems reluctant to take the thrown... I'm guessing somewhere I either said something wrong in the Follow-up conversation, or I perhaps never got it due to his approval being too high or something.

Anyone able to shed some light on my situation? Is it possible that him having a high-approval rating can cause the follow-up conversation back at camp not trigger?

[GSSAGE7]

You don't NEED Alistair to be hardened to enter into a political marriage to him, I think that just means you need lower approval/persuasion (I forget which) than if he's unhardened.

[theskymoves]

Fyre Fry wrote...

Anyone able to shed some light on my situation? Is it possible that him having a high-approval rating can cause the follow-up conversation back at camp not trigger?

I find Alistair's plot dialogue triggers can be wonky when his approval is really high. I had a game where the firing sequence was: Goldannna visit w/ follow-up convo to harden him/Alistair instigated tent-time/here's a rose. But I never got the second hardening convo (starts with "You know, I've been thinking..."), so when I kinged A @ the Landsmeet, he dumped my Elf-y Warden, even though she was @ Love/100 approval; apparently the hardened flag isn't set until the Warden reinforces the choice w/ him.

W/ reference to the original topic, I vacillate between whether 'tis better to harden or no. When I do harden the boy, I really miss the unspeakably sweet declaration of love in the second post-Goldanna dialogue, but I hate hate HATE how easy it is to convince unhardened Alistair to sex it up with Morrigan... if ever there's a time he needs a spine, that's it!

~tsm