132 réponses à ce sujet

[sympathy4saren]

Yeah, I did see. Fortunately, until now, BioWare has been an rpg company. If you shooters infect them to the point they are too Bungie-esk, we will put our heads down and curse this cancer in gaming, then jump ship.



Luckily, you are in the minority. If things get too bad in the future, the Dragon Age crowd will wake up and start screaming.



Wait...aren't they doing that now?

[SSV Enterprise]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

It's not a threat. It's a guarantee. People do not like where Bioware is heading with the trilogy after seeing me2. Bioware's greatest hits were rpg's. Now they want to make action slash/shooter games. That's going to Pisa off their current fanbase, especially those who had me1 and da:o looking at me2, da2, and what's to come in me3. They have a chance to redeem themselves in me3. Depending on how they handle it in terms of rpg elements and me1 decisions they will either rise or fall. Mark my words. The pressure is on.

-Polite

Riiiiiiiight.  And your basis for saying "People don't like" is...what now?  Your own opinion?  Because according to both professional and user reviews, ME2 scored higher.

[Schneidend]

And? A bunch of Fed-Ex quests doesn't make ME1 non-linear or a better game than ME2. None of the optional Citadel content has any affect on the unfolding of the game's other events or even the ending of the game. If we're simply comparing volume, then is ME2 not the superior game for having a great deal more voice-over dialogue?

[MassEffect762]

Seems like ME3 has little choice in the matter seeing as to how it's "Go-time". (The Reapers at our doorstep)



They could touch up on exploration/discovery/revelation early come ME3 but wish they would've given us more meat and potatoes during ME2.



While I understand the frustration in this regard I don't see too much space to work with unless Bioware gives us an exceptionally long story/game.

[sympathy4saren]

Haha. Really? Lay out arguments, and I will systematically counter-argue. I've been simply defending ad hominems with ad hominems of my own.

[sympathy4saren]

Yeah, it scored higher...an appeasement to the shooter fans.



Plus, graphics and overall frame rates were better.



Let's just ignore that, though.

[Jaron Oberyn]

@ssv enterprise - no not my opinion, but various sources which I stated I would post tomorrow as I'm on my iPhone at the moment and don't have the links on me. I provide evidence to support all of my arguments. If you look at my previous debates with the infamous smudboy you will learn this. I regret to inform you that I don't have access to the supporting evidence at this time, but previously stated that I will post them tomorrow.



-Polite

[Atmosfear3]

Seeing as how the fate of the galaxy hangs in the balance this time around, I doubt Shepard has time to go wandering around BARREN planets, looking for crates.



Mass Effect isn't an MMO. If you want to play a game where you can free-roam looking at the pretty digital sights, there are plenty of alternatives. Theres a reason exploration was largely scrapped in ME2.

[Jaron Oberyn]

And what was that reason? Please do share.



-Polite

[sympathy4saren]

No, shooters, it was scrapped to appease you. You aren't happy unless...well...you mindlessly shoot at stuff.

[Jaron Oberyn]

And how dud the fate of the galaxy not hang in the balance in me1 again? Please explain that also.



-Polite

[SSV Enterprise]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@ssv enterprise - no not my opinion, but various sources which I stated I would post tomorrow as I'm on my iPhone at the moment and don't have the links on me. I provide evidence to support all of my arguments. If you look at my previous debates with the infamous smudboy you will learn this. I regret to inform you that I don't have access to the supporting evidence at this time, but previously stated that I will post them tomorrow.

-Polite

I'll hold you to that, Polite.

[Schneidend]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Haha. Really? Lay out arguments, and I will systematically counter-argue. I've been simply defending ad hominems with ad hominems of my own.

You have yet to explain how levels like Eden Prime or Therum are any less linear than the Omega Slums or Dantius Towers. I appear to have missed whatever branching path through Eden Prime you yourself experienced.

You have yet to explain how, exactly, ME1's exploration was superior to ME2. In ME1, I found a dozen identical merc bases and several dozen identical mountainous regions with resource nodes. In ME2, on the other hand, I found a shipwreck teetering on the edge of a cliff - with no combat whatsoever I might add -, a space station turned into a nightmarish den of "accidental" murder by a rogue AI, etc. I found a number of different events when I explored the ME2 map, while most of the ME1 map was more of the same.

You have not elaborated as to how your precious "immersion" was lost, or why the way ME2 handles its RPG elements like leveling up, skills, and inventory is somehow "not RPG" because it does things differently than ME1.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Don't worry. This is the first time I'm at this disadvantage. I usually prefer to respond when on my pc since I have all of my sources archived there. I couldnt resist responding unfortunately.



-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

@schneidedad - as I said earlier, compare me1's citadel me2's citadel in regards to size and sidequests. That alone refutes your argument.



-Polite

[Atmosfear3]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

And what was that reason? Please do share. 

-Polite

The reason it was scrapped was because it was a largely useless component of the game. The environments were barren and the bunker layouts were all identical, proving to us that very little thought was put into exploration from the devs. It was more a distraction than anything.

PoliteAssasin wrote...

And how dud the fate of the galaxy not hang in the balance in me1 again? Please explain that also.

-Polite

And this is where I tell you that ME1, as amazing and critically acclaimed as it was, was a flawed game. Despite all the people who have said they did not like ME2, it was the more refined game out of the series so far. Bioware doesn't strike me as a bad company and I doubt they would purposely make a sequel to be worse than the first.

[SSV Enterprise]

@Polite:  Compare the total amount of hub worlds and the content offered by them on average. In ME1, we had the Citadel, which had a lot available to do. But Noveria and Feros? Hardly anything to do. ME2 had Omega, the Citadel, Tuchanka, and Ilium. Each with a variety of character missions and side missions to pursue.

Modifié par SSV Enterprise, 25 décembre 2010 - 05:24 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

You still never answered how the fate if the galaxy wasn't hanging in the balance in me1.



-Polite

[Atmosfear3]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

You still never answered how the fate if the galaxy wasn't hanging in the balance in me1.

-Polite

Then perhaps you failed to see my point. Exploration is a distraction. When the fate of the galaxy is at stake, roaming around on a barren planet is a waste of time. This was a reason that made ME1 flawed in that the pacing was rather lethargic.

[timj2011]

@ politeassasin



yeah, last time i checked, bioware cares about telling a story over the course of a trilogy, not delivering garbage rpg nonsense, yeah, they changed ME2 so they could make more money, but im pretty sure they still told their story.

oh yeah, bioware doesn't give a **** about you and your 5 rpg fans, if you guys leave, i think they will be ok, if you really want to wander around and collect items, just go and play a buggy bethesda game.

[Schneidend]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@schneidedad - as I said earlier, compare me1's citadel me2's citadel in regards to size and sidequests. That alone refutes your argument.

-Polite

The vessel that conveys Kirk and Piccard's bad asses around the galaxy has basically answered this already.

SSV Enterprise is one smart starship, I'll tell ya what.

[Jaron Oberyn]

@SSV ferros has quite a few sidequests if I recall correctly. Noveria had some too but not as much. I remember at least 2. The citadel was the main place to be in me1. In me2 all of the hub worlds are the equivalent if ferros and noveria. What made these places interesting and enjoyable was the approach they took with the story. In me1 you had more story to go along with the pew pew in noveria. Anolais, lorik Quinn, etc.... It had meaning. In me2 it's just walk straight pew pew. Make a left turn. Pick up some eezo. Turn around. Make a right turn. Pew pew. Mission complete.



That ruined the whole immersion in addition to exploration. The levels in me2 are far more linear than in me1. It becomes dull and repetitive after a while. I just got finished a me1 playthrough and imported to me2. I'm bored. It's the same exact thing whereas in me1 you had more freedom. It felt open, endless. Me2 feels too constrained.



-Polite



-Polite

[Fiery Phoenix]

I thought ME2 had too much shooting for an RPG, just as I thought ME1 had the perfect balance between shooting and exploration.

[Art3m]

^ Agree! I liked shooting system in ME1. I don't know why, but i think it totally suits th game. And the game was based not only on shooting, but on exploratins. In ME2 you just rush n' shoot

[Schneidend]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

@SSV ferros has quite a few sidequests if I recall correctly. Noveria had some too but not as much. I remember at least 2. The citadel was the main place to be in me1. In me2 all of the hub worlds are the equivalent if ferros and noveria. What made these places interesting and enjoyable was the approach they took with the story. In me1 you had more story to go along with the pew pew in noveria. Anolais, lorik Quinn, etc.... It had meaning. In me2 it's just walk straight pew pew. Make a left turn. Pick up some eezo. Turn around. Make a right turn. Pew pew. Mission complete.

That ruined the whole immersion in addition to exploration. The levels in me2 are far more linear than in me1. It becomes dull and repetitive after a while. I just got finished a me1 playthrough and imported to me2. I'm bored. It's the same exact thing whereas in me1 you had more freedom. It felt open, endless. Me2 feels too constrained.

-Polite

You're clearly just comparing the hub areas of ME1 to the combat areas of ME2 in order to skew things in favor of ME1.

Obviously, the offices area of Noveria is less linear than fighting your way through a cell block of a linear prison ship.

By that same token, wandering around the bar area and merchant square of Omega is less linear than driving along the Prothean Superhighway on Feros.