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Mass Effect 3---Less shooting, more exploring?


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#51
Iakus

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PoliteAssasin wrote...

@SSV ferros has quite a few sidequests if I recall correctly. Noveria had some too but not as much. I remember at least 2. The citadel was the main place to be in me1. In me2 all of the hub worlds are the equivalent if ferros and noveria. What made these places interesting and enjoyable was the approach they took with the story. In me1 you had more story to go along with the pew pew in noveria. Anolais, lorik Quinn, etc.... It had meaning. In me2 it's just walk straight pew pew. Make a left turn. Pick up some eezo. Turn around. Make a right turn. Pew pew. Mission complete.

That ruined the whole immersion in addition to exploration. The levels in me2 are far more linear than in me1. It becomes dull and repetitive after a while. I just got finished a me1 playthrough and imported to me2. I'm bored. It's the same exact thing whereas in me1 you had more freedom. It felt open, endless. Me2 feels too constrained.

-Polite

-Polite


Don't forget the ME 2 "side quests" mostly involved going to someone, who in most cases were in the same room as the questgiver, chatting them up, then returning to the first person for a reward.  I can think of two whole sidequests that involved actually leaving the quest hub.  

 This is exploration?.

#52
Jaron Oberyn

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@timj2011 - and here I was about to say that I was proud of the fact that we could have an intellectual debate without resorting to childish rants and personal insults. By the way, your response is basically a copy of what the bungie fanboys say to the bungie fans who dislike halo: reach. What you fail to comprehend are 2 things. One, there are way more than 5 rpg fans who are worried about where the trilogy is headed. And two, what were doing is not out of hatred for Bioware but out of loyalty. We know the quality of work they're capable of, the standards each if their greatest games were held to, even if they've forgotten it. Were simply trying to get them to resort to their high standards if quality when making the last game of the trilogy we've supported them with since me1 which was the definitive game of the trilogy.



-Polite

#53
Jaron Oberyn

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@schneidedand - no. As I stated before compare the citadel in me1 to the citadel in me2. That alone refutes your argument. Me1's citadel had a lot mire variety and places to explore than me2's 3 floors of zakera ward.



-Polite

#54
sympathy4saren

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Actually, I believe you also mentioned something about the Citadel, and how since none of the things you did there in the original Mass Effect affected the story branch, it was less of an RPG.

To start with that...when did it become mandatory that things must directly affect storyline to be considered aspects of role playing? The Citadel was much more massive in the original. The Presidium itself was larger than the entire area in Mass Effect 2. BioWare's implementation of actions influencing story is a revolutionary mechanic, but it certainly doesn't mean it is less rpg in nature if it ends up having no influence.

Now, you are correct in the fact that level designs such as Eden Prime and others had a linear feel. However, not to the extent ME2 was. I didn't see near as many boxes placed neatly in formation for cover, nor do I remember as many narrow corridors. If I wanted to, I could run to the opposite side of the room and flank. Areas were generally more spacious, and, combined with the fact there wasn't as much shooting, I could actually walk around and check stuff out.

You also falsely make the assumption and implication I thought that ME1's exploration was perfect, or that there were not flaws with it. I believe you inferred that we just wanted ME1's planet exploration cut and pasted. What text made you think that? The simple fact I stated I liked that exploration better? That's a large assumption indeed. To the contrary, I believe there are massive improvements to be made. It was open, but indeed too barren. With four years to make improvements, and I do believe it is fact they have been working on ME3 for years, that they need to make environments more detailed, similar to detail in Red Dead Redemption. With more to do. Openess also is a subconscious factor when perceiving how "big" a game is.

It's a general fact inventory was gutted in ME2. Nice additions were made, like the computer station, but I didn't like how I had to block together attributes and didn't have as many upgrade choices on my weapons. Those elements are critical to RPGers...it helps us focus in on how our powers are being implemented, and for optimal control, attributes must be as refined as possible. I might want to add just a little to warp, a little to pistol ability. But what...I can only add to warp by adding 3 points? Why can't I add two to warp and one to pistol?

But they wanted to give the shooting crowd literally the ability to play the game...so much got ripped out.

Modifié par sympathy4saren, 25 décembre 2010 - 05:53 .


#55
AllenShepard

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I would normally agree but this is ME3. We're blowing **** up.

#56
SSV Enterprise

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PoliteAssasin wrote...

@SSV ferros has quite a few sidequests if I recall correctly. Noveria had some too but not as much. I remember at least 2. The citadel was the main place to be in me1. In me2 all of the hub worlds are the equivalent if ferros and noveria. What made these places interesting and enjoyable was the approach they took with the story. In me1 you had more story to go along with the pew pew in noveria. Anolais, lorik Quinn, etc.... It had meaning. In me2 it's just walk straight pew pew. Make a left turn. Pick up some eezo. Turn around. Make a right turn. Pew pew. Mission complete.


Feros had 3 sidequests techically.  But they basically amounted to the same thing -- talk to a bunch of people, go into the tunnels, hit a few buttons, go back and tell those people you did it and get some credits.  The sidequests on ME2's hub worlds were more varied.  Helping out/tormenting Conrad Verner, Ratch's pyjak shooting minigame, the anti-human batarian bartender on Omega, etc., etc.

Anoleis and Lorik Quinn don't really count as sidequests; they were part of the main mission.  And all games with combat in them can be characterized like you just did, ME1 included.  That doesn't make it an accurate characterization.  If you're going to insist that ME2's missions had very little meaning and story, you're being idiotic.

That ruined the whole immersion in addition to exploration. The levels in me2 are far more linear than in me1. It becomes dull and repetitive after a while. I just got finished a me1 playthrough and imported to me2. I'm bored. It's the same exact thing whereas in me1 you had more freedom. It felt open, endless. Me2 feels too constrained.

-Polite


The linearity of the level design helped the shooter gameplay feel tighter.  With regards to story, ME2 was still nonlinear in the order you could go on loyalty missions and N7 missions.  What linearity there was -- the missions the Illusive Man would give you actually helped immersion by giving the game a genuine sense of urgency that ME1 never had..  As Atmosfear3 has said, it doesn't really make sense to go around exploring every little corner of the galaxy when the galaxy on whole needs saving.

Modifié par SSV Enterprise, 25 décembre 2010 - 05:51 .


#57
sympathy4saren

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Did somebody really say BioWare doesn't care if their "5 rpg fans" leave?



That is the most hilarious thing I have read in months. It is exactly as logical as me saying "Bungie doesn't care if their 5 first person shooter fans leave".



BioWare is a company that makes....wait for it!!!!!!.....RPGs!



Lol...sigh

#58
Jaron Oberyn

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Alright guys, I'd like to continue but it's getting late over here and I'm about to catch some z's. Good night to you all and merry Christmas. I'll be back to discuss tomorrow night, and SSV I'll have those links for you.



Good night.



-Polite

#59
timj2011

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@politeassasin



i was not insulting you on a personal level, i was simply stating(in a grossly exaggerated way), that yes, you, and many such as yourself who are wonderfully loyal rpg and bioware fans, will abandon the franchise, if not bioware, and that these events would not even slightly hider the sales or historical remembrance of the Mass Effect franchise

#60
Aglazzboi

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AllenShepard wrote...

I would normally agree but this is ME3. We're blowing **** up.

Thank you! Each game had a different goal/angle.

Me1 fit great with exploration beacause the galaxy was just being introduced. Me2 was about stoppin the collectors aka gathering a team to take on the suicide mission. The only places we needed to go involved recruiting a piece to help in the mission. In me3 the reapers are here. The only exploration we should be doing is inside a ripped in half *** Reaper. If the planet doesnt have a weapon to destroy the reapers there is no need. I know rpg fans want that me1 experience back, but if its like the mako explorations, dead it.

#61
timj2011

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@sympathy4saren



yeah... last time i checked bioware chose to cater to the general gaming audience for ME2, and i am pretty sure 99% of the people i know that played ME2 aren't rpg fans, they just played it because it was awesome.



But, you seem to have some false sense of entitlement and never ending knowledge about everything that exists, so you must be correct, i apologize.

#62
sympathy4saren

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No problem, Timj2011...I forgive you.

#63
Iakus

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timj2011 wrote...

@politeassasin

i was not insulting you on a personal level, i was simply stating(in a grossly exaggerated way), that yes, you, and many such as yourself who are wonderfully loyal rpg and bioware fans, will abandon the franchise, if not bioware, and that these events would not even slightly hider the sales or historical remembrance of the Mass Effect franchise


I am reminded of a quote here from The Fellowship of the Ring (the book, not the movie):

Saruman: "White!  It serves as a beginning.  White cloth may be dyed.  White pages may be overwritten; and the white light can be broken"

Gandalf: "In which case it is no longer white.  And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom"

Basically, if Bioware goes in such a direction that it utterly alienates its rpg fans to the point that we (yes "we") look elsewhere for our rpg fix, Bioware may survive, but it would no longer be the Bioware of old.  It would be something else.  Broken, if you will.  And put back together into something far more common, it's identity gone.

I am not so pessimistic as to say something like that is taking place right now.  But I am seeing signs that concern me a little.   ME 2 merely being the most prominent sign.

#64
sympathy4saren

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Yes, we are indeed seeing the signs (awesome quote, love Lord of the Rings). But we care enough and are loyal enough to BioWare to see the signs and speak up.



We need less shooting and more exploration in Mass Effect 3. Shooters have their games. Let us have ours, please.

#65
archurban

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NO. I want more shooting, more exploration. that's much better. yes?

#66
Nashiktal

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While I whole heartedly support more exploration, but the reapers have touched down on earth man. I expect lots of pew pew.

Modifié par Nashiktal, 25 décembre 2010 - 07:35 .


#67
Encarmine

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I would love more side missions if that counts as exploration, like when you go and collect those packages for the dude on Omega, was really hoping that lead to some shooting.



I really really hope they re-merge the vehicle missions with the main missions, the hammerhead was a quality vehicle, shame it felt so disconnected with the main game. LotSB was awesom, the way it mixed in a vehicle chase, and also alternate locations, I would love the game to have that kind of feel the whole way through.



I would also love larger hubs, Citadel on me1 was awesom, citadel on ME2 was shiney, yet felt hollow.

#68
Nashiktal

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I never really felt that there was a hub world in ME2.

#69
femio18

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no more rpg from bioware after this thanks to ea......lol

#70
marshalleck

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femio18 wrote...

no more rpg from bioware after this thanks to ea......lol

You mean thanks to Bioware, since the doctors are now executives within EA and are still making decisions regarding what Bioware does. If you don't like what Bioware is doing these days, it's the fault of Bioware, not EA.

#71
Lumikki

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I would want more exploration or missions what are not just shooting.

How ever, this ME1 vs ME2, what some people does is just pure BS. It's 95% just what players them self want's from game. That 5% left out is actual game design problems, what exist in every game, one way or other, what most of players can actually agree.

Modifié par Lumikki, 25 décembre 2010 - 12:01 .


#72
DOGGEH84

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sympathy4saren wrote...

I sincerely hope there is less shooting and more exploring, non-linear exploring, in Mass Effect 3. How about you?


I think an even balance would be good.

Or even the game could adapt to your gaming style.  I really don't know how this could be implemented.  Even if it just gave you alot of both and you just choose.


:ph34r:

#73
Dune01

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Guys,chill out.

Would you play a same RPG over and over again?What Bioware did with Mass Effect 2 was trying to make the game better....Some didn't like it, some did.Every game developer is constantly improving.

You are actually arguing about the same thing since January 26th. So please, relax and wait for Mass Effect 3 BEFORE you start raging (that you will).

#74
fmsantos39

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sympathy4saren wrote...

I sincerely hope there is less shooting and more exploring, non-linear exploring, in Mass Effect 3. How about you?

I'm hoping for more shooting and more exploring :)

#75
Sparda Stonerule

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So in Mass Effect 3, when the Reapers are invading the Galaxy, you don't want to shoot stuff? You want to go off and explore some planet and discover wide open areas with some lootable debris while the Galaxy is dying? Yeah sure that obviously makes tons of sense. Let's not shoot the Reapers. Let's just go for a drive on this nice planet. Then when the Reapers come here we can just go to a new one. I mean there are plenty right?



Sorry but a climax without an emphasis on fighting the main threat is silly. In fact I've never seen a climax that didn't focus on fighting the main antagonist.