48 réponses à ce sujet

[Wolf Northwind]

Archery is noticably weaker than melee and magic options for the reasons stated by posters above. I had originally intended to build an archer but swapped to dual wield after making it through a few significant encounters.



Though I'm sure some of the high end abilities are devastating none the less, you can't rely on these making up for a weak showing in general. I'll be happy when the tweak is patched in.

[simpatikool]

I find that the Archer talents help set up the battle.Pinning Shot, Crippling Shot, Scattershot all own, and help dictate the flow of battle.



Having an Archer behind your line of tanks, picking off stragglers, or going ahead and gunning down a mage is just too good not to have in your party tool set.

[Kathila]

Well, my question is, how do warrior class talents affect archery? I could wear stronger armor with a warrior, but would that help? Does Bravery work? How does the game decide how many enemies you have engaged? And, do Precise and Perfect Striking work? Do they stack with archery specific talents? It's hard to actually decide what to do with such limited information, except by trial and error. I think my main concern is that if I made an archery rogue, I'd have to take lockpicking to make Leliana redundant or else have to drag two archery rogues everywhere in order to fulfill my ob-com desire to pick all locks.

[Crackseed]

hunharibo wrote...

I played through my first game with a human warrior archer.
Warriors make better archers than rogues for the simple fact that warriors gain more attack/damage per level than rogues. Plus you cant backstab or poison with an arrow, so the 2 main selling points of a rogue are non-existent for archers.
Scattershot is one of the best CC abilities in the game. Arrow of slaying is awesome. Shattershot actually knocks your target down, although this effect is not mentioned in the description.
I was using the named/unique longbow from the werewolf dungeons (i think thats where if found it) that has a base damage of 9.6.
I was doing about 40 damage a shot with rapidshot and suppressing fire sustained (rally activated too, since i was a champion as well).
Compared to this, my second attempt with a dual-weapon elf rogue was much much harder.
Mage owns all tho

I will dispute this. While the warrior gets a bit nicer scaling, nothing compares to combat stealth + guaranteed slaying crits. Being able to control your hate AND fade in and out of battle to repeatedly get guaranteed crits is a ludicrously powerful ability that the rogue-archer gets, plus the potency of having ranger/assassion [for mark]/duelist specs powers over any of the warrior specs.

As for someone doubting slaying arrow hits for 800ish, I don't disbelieve it. I'm level 14 atm using the Falon'Din bow and landing 400 crits on lighter armored foes. Heavy armor reduces it ALOT so I usually try to soften it up with shattering before going for a slaying arrow after combat stealth.

[Kathila]

crackseed wrote...

hunharibo wrote...

I played through my first game with a human warrior archer.
Warriors make better archers than rogues for the simple fact that warriors gain more attack/damage per level than rogues. Plus you cant backstab or poison with an arrow, so the 2 main selling points of a rogue are non-existent for archers.
Scattershot is one of the best CC abilities in the game. Arrow of slaying is awesome. Shattershot actually knocks your target down, although this effect is not mentioned in the description.
I was using the named/unique longbow from the werewolf dungeons (i think thats where if found it) that has a base damage of 9.6.
I was doing about 40 damage a shot with rapidshot and suppressing fire sustained (rally activated too, since i was a champion as well).
Compared to this, my second attempt with a dual-weapon elf rogue was much much harder.
Mage owns all tho

I will dispute this. While the warrior gets a bit nicer scaling, nothing compares to combat stealth + guaranteed slaying crits. Being able to control your hate AND fade in and out of battle to repeatedly get guaranteed crits is a ludicrously powerful ability that the rogue-archer gets, plus the potency of having ranger/assassion [for mark]/duelist specs powers over any of the warrior specs.

As for someone doubting slaying arrow hits for 800ish, I don't disbelieve it. I'm level 14 atm using the Falon'Din bow and landing 400 crits on lighter armored foes. Heavy armor reduces it ALOT so I usually try to soften it up with shattering before going for a slaying arrow after combat stealth.

Oh, I can believe that there are 800 damage crits.  I just don't believe that he soloed the game.

[Seipherwood]

What kind of gear are you guys using for your archers to do so well?

[ruttlemucker]

I just finished a game with a ranger/duelist archer and the highest i hit for was 400 something. What do you have to do to hit for 800? I'm impressed.

[lordhugorune]

I'm actually rather tempted to play a party of archery-focused characters with a supporting mage just for kicks.

[Crackseed]

ruttlemucker wrote...

I just finished a game with a ranger/duelist archer and the highest i hit for was 400 something. What do you have to do to hit for 800? I'm impressed.

Softening the target up with shattering arrow can help to spike the crits higher. Depends on supporting gear too. Aka alot of + crit damage % items like the Backhand gloves, etc.

[grayfenix]

All these people talking about their insane damage, is this with the supposed "hotfix" installed? I read that it changes game balance by making enemy archers hit like trucks too.

[Crackseed]

grayfenix wrote...

All these people talking about their insane damage, is this with the supposed "hotfix" installed? I read that it changes game balance by making enemy archers hit like trucks too.

I am using the hotfix and yes, Archer heavy enemy fights are scary xD

I got a random attack with about 15 Darkspawn archers and oh my god that was scary hahaha. Thank goodness for mass paralysis and force field.

[Dragonsword18]

Well .. i have to says that Archery is not weak...



i play archery now... and i`m lvl 9 and most crit i hit was 300+

and i dont have any special gear or so... i still waiting i do quest for dragon scale to make armor

and get some good weapon

[Raxxman]

the problem you have is an archer in no way shape or form can compare to a well designed mage.



It essentially becomes a pointless debate, You're arguing over minor details.



archery is fine if you use it for what it is, but to try to power game with it is pointless. Even with the killing power of arrow of death, a decent mage can spike down any target on nightmare about 3 seconds slower, but can also chug a potion and be ready to do it again in about 3 seconds after the fact.

[Default137]

Raxxman wrote...

the problem you have is an archer in no way shape or form can compare to a well designed mage.

It essentially becomes a pointless debate, You're arguing over minor details.

archery is fine if you use it for what it is, but to try to power game with it is pointless. Even with the killing power of arrow of death, a decent mage can spike down any target on nightmare about 3 seconds slower, but can also chug a potion and be ready to do it again in about 3 seconds after the fact.

Really now.

I've played both a Mage and a Archer, or well, am playing an Archer now, on Nightmare, and I have to say, the Archer is far better for this then the Mage was, on the higher difficulties, the Mage heals are just not powerful enough, and their CC doesn't last long enough to matter, and considering the damage is just as good, I'd much rather take my Stealth/InstaCrit/3l AoE 10 second stuns/All attacks are crits for the next x seconds Ranger over my Mage

[ComTrav]

Those who are playing an archer--how do you spend your points?



It seems like you'll be near the end of the game by the time you get everything that makes archers good. It seems hard to balance Ranger/Bard, Scattershot, Arrow of Slaying, and Master Archer (and if you want stealth/lockpicking...)

[Kathila]

ComTrav wrote...

Those who are playing an archer--how do you spend your points?

It seems like you'll be near the end of the game by the time you get everything that makes archers good. It seems hard to balance Ranger/Bard, Scattershot, Arrow of Slaying, and Master Archer (and if you want stealth/lockpicking...)

If it comes down to it you can always spend lots of money to make up the shortfall in talent points.

[fallingseraph]

Darviathar wrote...

I've long made a living starting and restarting games, and have probably done the origin story + ostragar 10 times.  One of my current games is an elven rogue with archery specialization.  So far, she seems to be the weakest character I've played.  Even with rapid shot, almost all "points" put into dex, and using a short bow (for better rate of fire) she seems to be pretty low in the DPS department.  Archery itself doesn't seem to be nearly as useful as melee.  The arrows themselves don't do much damage, and the rate of fire (even with rapid shot) seems to be so low that there is really no reason not to break out the dagger and enter melee as a backstabber.  Will archery get better later on, or am I really just better off dual wielding daggers and backstabbing the entire combat?

Just deleted my saved games on my rogue archer.

Love opening locks and picking pockets, however, can't take much down.

Another thing, I didn't realize I can't use poisons for ranged combat....  >.<


about to start it again for the 4th time.

[themaxzero]

Once the new patch comes through and shortbows become 100% dex based Archery will prob be damn near OP.



http://dragonage.gul...rity_hotfix_101

[JemmaProphet]

I made my first character having no idea what I was doing, so she's a Dalish warrior archer. And I actually have a great time, though I always need a good tank in my party and often add a little off-tank melee DPS as well as mage healing (Wynn). I find I run out of stamina in long fights.



It helps to have good armor - I'm in Shadows of the Empire from that vendor in Orzammar and it's fantastic, though very light for a warrior. I might switch to the warden commander's set for the final fight though because it's got some nice resistances. I'm about half strength/half dex. I'm probably playing all wrong by the numbers but I'm having fun, so I guess that matters most.

[Varenus Luckmann]

The real issue for me isn't that Archery is weak (it somewhat is, for a multitude of reasons) but that the rogue skills and rogue specializations show a distinct lack in support for archery, wheras it shows no such lacking in relation to melee at all.

[Riot Inducer]

Varenus Luckmann wrote...

The real issue for me isn't that Archery is weak (it somewhat is, for a multitude of reasons) but that the rogue skills and rogue specializations show a distinct lack in support for archery, wheras it shows no such lacking in relation to melee at all.

gotta agree with this, some abilities work with ranged attacks but for the most part rogue and specialization abilities focus on melee attacks and those that do work with ranged are typically in a line with several abilities that don't work with ranged attacks. 

btw I've been playing with the hotfix and I haven't actually encountered any situation in which the change to bows made enemy archers unreasonable. They are more of a threat now, but honestly I'm finding that's a good thing as I could almost completely ignore them before. 

[Ajyk]

What archer specific bonus does Ranger give (besides RP)? It seems to me that Assassin/Duelist would be better.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Playing on hard before, enemy archers was annoying as hell. With the hotfix, enemy archers are annoying as hell. There's not much of a difference, really. Nor did my own damage change overly much. I've got just below 30% of the damage done in my party, which is average, but it's mainly due to me abusing pulling mechanics at long range. It's not really a valid measurement.

Is there, for example, any real reason why we've (rogues) got "Deadly Strike" as melee? Is there any real reason it can't be ranged? And why isn't "Below the Belt" a generic attack aswell (aside from the fact that it's supposed to be a kick to the nads)? Is there a reason I can't aim a shot at a crotch? Why doesn't Coup de Grace effect ranged weapons, even if ranged doesn't have any or full backstab bonuses?

All of these are very easy fixes that, yes, would increase damage for rogue archers, but more importantly help fix the desperately lacking rogue-archer skillset.

[Varenus Luckmann]

Ajyk wrote...

What archer specific bonus does Ranger give (besides RP)? It seems to me that Assassin/Duelist would be better.

Aside from only the first ability in Assassin, it's completely useless. Even the first ability (Mark of Death) is extremely short range (relatively speaking, from an archery standpoint). Duelist also has you trudge through two (arguably three, but that's a matter of opinion) useless talents to get to Pinpoint Strike. Duelist is also, from an RP standpoint, very melee-centric.

Ranger gives no real benefit for only archers, but is a well-rounded specialization that works well for anyone. And that's the point. We shouldn't be demanding or asking for buffs to archers or rogue archers. We should be asking for all talents and specializations to be useful for all established archetypes. Ranger is simply a preferred (rogue) archer specialization because it's full skillset is useful.

Bard also fall into this category, as far as specializations go. They're simply all-around useful. As opposed to Duelist, Assassin and the majority of rogue-specific talents (not counting Deft Hands and Stealth, that, again, is useful to anyone).