93 réponses à ce sujet

[Ulous]

GodWood wrote...

 RPG-lite/'action RPG' variety.

Well that is just opinion based and getting into a debate over what an RPG is would be bad, like it or not all the games I mentioned had been sold, bought and categorized as RPG's, all they are is "modern western RPG's".

[Bryy_Miller]

JRPGs are what introduced me to RPGs, and to game design. I'm not of the mind that one is greater (JRPG, WRPG) than the other, but they were a huge influence on my growth as a gamer and a game maker.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 26 décembre 2010 - 09:24 .

[slimgrin]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

JRPGs are what introduced me to RPGs, and to game design. I'm not of the mind that one is greater (JRPG, WRPG) than the other, but they were a huge influence on my growth as a gamer and a game maker.

You make games? 

Do tell....

[Bryy_Miller]

slimgrin wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

JRPGs are what introduced me to RPGs, and to game design. I'm not of the mind that one is greater (JRPG, WRPG) than the other, but they were a huge influence on my growth as a gamer and a game maker.

You make games? 

Do tell....

We're creating a small horror-comedy RPG for the smart phone platform right now. Ideally, the plan is to eventually get to PC and XBL, but that's a year or so off.

[thegreateski]

I dislike the art style. That's as far as my opinion of JRPGs goes.

[Busomjack]

JRPG's are too pretentious. They take themselves way too seriously and I think the people who make them think they're making a far better game than what they eventually deliver.



Final Fantasy XIII was in development for SO friggin long and once it finally came out it became clear that all that time was spent just creating flashy, overly-elaborate cutscenes and dazzling special effects. It was insulting, they clearly think that we're stupid enough to forgive the absence of a worthwhile game provided they can dazzle us enough with pretty graphics.



A well polished turd is still a turd. It seems that as the graphics in JRPGs get better, the gameplay and sense of adventure gets worse. Final Fantasy X I think is what started the trend.

[Silentmode]

I haven't played many, but those I have played I find odd, weak stories, inconsistent characters, exagerated, overly dramatic, over sexualized, and the list goes on. I suppose it could be a product of me being from a different culture or because I was exposed to WRPGs first, but I have yet to play a JRPG I liked.

[Busomjack]

Silentmode wrote...

I haven't played many, but those I have played I find odd, weak stories, inconsistent characters, exagerated, overly dramatic, over sexualized, and the list goes on. I suppose it could be a product of me being from a different culture or because I was exposed to WRPGs first, but I have yet to play a JRPG I liked.

You should try Demon's Souls.  It's a JRPG but you would never be able to tell had I not told you.  It feels like a Western RPG and it's one of the most fun, challenging RPGs I have ever played.

[Ghost Lightning]

Busomjack wrote...
Final Fantasy XIII was in development for SO friggin long and once it finally came out it became clear that all that time was spent just creating flashy, overly-elaborate cutscenes and dazzling special effects. It was insulting, they clearly think that we're stupid enough to forgive the absence of a worthwhile game provided they can dazzle us enough with pretty graphics.
.

Well...XIII still sold over 6 million copies and for the mot part critics reviewed it pretty highly. I think the five years it took to make it was well worth the wait.

But besides the FF series I do think JRPG' are kinda getting a bit worse, but then again besides Final Fantasy I really don't pay much attention to other JRPG's.

Modifié par Ghost Lightning, 27 décembre 2010 - 04:34 .

[C9316]

It seems to me that it's not just JRPGs the entire Japanese Gaming industry as a whole is in decline. I guess people just don't like overly dramatic, sterotypical stories and characters anymore.

[Busomjack]

Ghost Lightning wrote...

Busomjack wrote...
Final Fantasy XIII was in development for SO friggin long and once it finally came out it became clear that all that time was spent just creating flashy, overly-elaborate cutscenes and dazzling special effects. It was insulting, they clearly think that we're stupid enough to forgive the absence of a worthwhile game provided they can dazzle us enough with pretty graphics.
.

Well...XIII still sold over 6 million copies and for the mot part critics reviewed it pretty highly. I think the five years it took to make it was well worth the wait.

But besides the FF series I do think JRPG' are kinda getting a bit worse, but then again besides Final Fantasy I really don't pay much attention to other JRPG's.

Final Fantasy XIII sold well on the merit of it being part of the prestigious Final Fantasy franchise. 
While critical response has been good I think fan reviews of the game have been much more polarizing.  I see Final Fantasy XIII on the used game store shelf more than any other game.  As well as this game sold, I think it has tarnished the franchise and it will take more than the Final Fantasy name for future titles to sell as well.

[Ulous]

Ghost Lightning wrote...

Well...XIII still sold over 6 million copies and for the mot part critics reviewed it pretty highly. I think the five years it took to make it was well worth the wait.

But besides the FF series I do think JRPG' are kinda getting a bit worse, but then again besides Final Fantasy I really don't pay much attention to other JRPG's.

Five years to make? How much did the development cost then? how many copies of the game would they have to sell just to break even? A game that takes that long to make should be contending for the best game ever made, but instead the response has been luke warm at best.

I pretty much gave up on FF after number 10, my girlfriend however continued playing the games and even played 11 (MMORPG one), but it was quite evident to me just how bad 13 was when even she couldn't be bothered to play through it.

As I said earlier in the thread the FF series and JRPG's in general need to move with the times, they need some fresh and innovative ideas.

[Busomjack]

I think the whole Fabula Nova Crystallis thing was extremely pretentious and overly-ambitious. It's seems Square/Enix was setting out to create the ultimate, epic, multi-part saga and they just were totally unprepared and completely blew it.

Final Fantasy XIII's fan response has been polarized and Final Fantasy Versus XIII and Agito XIII are nowhere in sight.

[Busomjack]

I also heard that Final Fantasy Versus XIII is going to be absent yet again from the Tokyo Game Show and E3.



What is worse about all of this is that you know they're using all of this development time to create super-flashy, pretentious cut-scenes. Final Fantasy Versus XIII will be just as bad as Final Fantasy XIII.

[Ghost Lightning]

Busomjack wrote...

I also heard that Final Fantasy Versus XIII is going to be absent yet again from the Tokyo Game Show and E3.

What is worse about all of this is that you know they're using all of this development time to create super-flashy, pretentious cut-scenes. Final Fantasy Versus XIII will be just as bad as Final Fantasy XIII.

Actually they are showing it at the Fabula Nova Crystallis Conference and they are working on a new combat system so it might be at TGS or E3 (but I doubt it). But still it looks great IMO.

[Alexine]

One of the problems I found with Final Fantasy XIII is its game development. I was a FF fangirl back in the days, so I was pretty excited when they announced it for PS3. However, what made me slowly turned off is the lack of creativity or experimentation with the game. Studying creative arts, I know that it is a good thing for designs to evolve from process to process. They seemed to rely on the fact that they need to finalise the character design before the story just for the sake of fangirl fodder. In comparison, most good Western game developers (emphasis on good) would know that character design would go through many stages of development (if you look at art books from video games, you'll be surprised at how much revision they go through character design. you sometimes wonder why such games as FF don't produce art books). I know that in Japan, businesses run autocratically rather than as a team (you wonder that it took 5 years to make this game, and no sight in when Kingdom Hearts 3 will come out), but I think FFXIII would have been a better product if more expertise and collaboration. I'm not looking very eager for Versus to be honest, despite looking rather cool. 

Silentmode wrote...
I haven't played many, but those I have played I find odd, weak stories, inconsistent characters, exagerated, overly dramatic, over sexualized, and the list goes on. I suppose it could be a product of me being from a different culture or because I was exposed to WRPGs first, but I have yet to play a JRPG I liked.

I would agree that it is a cultural thing usually. Coming from an Asian background, I understand and am quite used to this kind of humour (however, I can't tolerate very crude and perverted Japanese humour). But in the end of the day, some parts of Asian culture go too far a lot, which is probably the turning-off factor for most people outside of the culture.

Modifié par Alexine, 28 décembre 2010 - 10:02 .

[zx2781]

I am western but my wife is from China. She does not seem to grasp sarcasm at all but will laugh at things I did not think funny. I wonder how much is 'Lost  in Translation' when it comes to the dialouge in JRPGs.







[quote]Alexine wrote...

I would agree that it is a cultural thing usually. Coming from an Asian background, I understand and am quite used to this kind of humour (however, I can't tolerate very crude and perverted Japanese humour). But in the end of the day, some parts of Asian culture go too far a lot, which is probably the turning-off factor for most people outside of the culture. 

Modifié par zx2781, 28 décembre 2010 - 11:06 .

[slimgrin]

C9316 wrote...

It seems to me that it's not just JRPGs the entire Japanese Gaming industry as a whole is in decline. I guess people just don't like overly dramatic, sterotypical stories and characters anymore.

Sadly this is true. Japanese gaming has less appeal to non Japanese gamers because they're making the same games over and over. They're in a rut, or perhaps too comfortable with formula.

[Busomjack]

Japanese culture isn't willing to try out different templates because they have a culturally inherent fear of failure. In Japanese culture, failure is viewed similarly to death, to fail is to die. In Western culture we view failures as something to learn from since a failed product can serve as a reference point as to what to avoid in the future.
As such, Western games often take more risks by trying out new things, some of them work and some of them don't.

Japanese games often just recycle past ideas and even good ideas can get stale after a while.  I think Japanese developers realize this and it's why many Japanese developers like Shinji Mikami and Goichi Suda have tried making their games feel more Western.

Modifié par Busomjack, 29 décembre 2010 - 04:55 .

[Lord_Caledore]

Silentmode wrote...

I haven't played many, but those I have played I find odd, weak stories, inconsistent characters, exagerated, overly dramatic, over sexualized, and the list goes on. I suppose it could be a product of me being from a different culture or because I was exposed to WRPGs first, but I have yet to play a JRPG I liked.

Pretty much this. Maybe I haven't had enough exposure (and my few forays have pretty much kept me from trying new ones), but those I have encountered all shared those traits.

[Ryzaki]

@Silntmode:Wow. You just said most of my problems with WRPGs with the exception of BW and Bethesda.

Though honestly I enjoy most JRPGs (with the exception of the FF games. I dislike most of them...very strongly). WRPGs to me are just bland and for the most part uninteresting. They lack a vibrancy that I find in most JRPGs.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 décembre 2010 - 08:40 .

[Faust1979]

 All Bioware games stories are pretty linear and go from point A to point B. side quests are just filler really they are just there to help you boost your levels. It's like griding to get to the next level in JRPGs. 

[Faust1979]

 Some JRPS have great stories it's because they focus on the story instead of filling them with sidequests

Shadow Hearts

Xenosaga trilogy

Final Fantasy 12

some of them can give you a better story oriented experience. 

[Thiefy]

Er I still wouldn't reccomend those games. Personally, I couldn't get into Xenosaga at all and hated the 1st ones extremely long tutorial =/



For a Japanese game with great gameplay, try Katamari Damacy.



For a JRPG/series with a really good storyline and a few side quests that will keep you occupied throughout the entire game try the Suikoden series. 2 and 5 are the general favorites, though #2 will set you back a hundred bucks or so.1 and 3 are also great and 4 is good but the main gripe with that is how ling it takes to get from point a to point b in real time (though it's still a solid game)



For something that is a mix, try Okami which is more of an action-rpg style game.

[Faust1979]

Thief-of-Hearts wrote...

Er I still wouldn't reccomend those games. Personally, I couldn't get into Xenosaga at all and hated the 1st ones extremely long tutorial =/

For a Japanese game with great gameplay, try Katamari Damacy.

For a JRPG/series with a really good storyline and a few side quests that will keep you occupied throughout the entire game try the Suikoden series. 2 and 5 are the general favorites, though #2 will set you back a hundred bucks or so.1 and 3 are also great and 4 is good but the main gripe with that is how ling it takes to get from point a to point b in real time (though it's still a solid game)

For something that is a mix, try Okami which is more of an action-rpg style game.

I have Suikoden 5 awesome storyline! but I got increasingly annoyed with the bad strategy elements that just annoyed me the more they increased in frequency they were fun at first but they became rather tedious for me before I got bored and just gave up.