102 réponses à ce sujet

[super_gamer]

Why didnt Sovereign use the Collectors in Mass Effect 1. Why go thought all the trouble of getting new a new army of slaves when the Reapers already had one?

[Mister Mida]

Some possible explanations:

1: Bioware didn't create the Collectors until after ME (1)

2: Collectors were never a fighting force, but were forced in that position because Sovereign failed

3: There was no concensus between Sovereign and Harbinger in bringing in the Collectors

[CroGamer002]

^That.

[Katamariguy]

In order to have as many slaves as possible.

[Ryryk]

Mister Mida wrote...

2: Collectors were never a fighting force, but were forced in that position because Sovereign failed

They used the collectors to research the other races. They traded some technology for slaves (it was mentioned, but I don't know where exactly)
-> They first came up as Souvereign failed, to avenge him, or not?

[TheMiroHa]

I think it's explanation 1. in Mister Mida's post. Same reason why we didn't see any Drell or Vorcha in ME1.

Modifié par TheMiroHa, 25 décembre 2010 - 09:54 .

[Dionkey]

The collectors vs the Citadel would be a joke. One remade Alliance frigate took out their flag ship, they would get the floor mopped with them. The geth have a way larger fleet.

[adam_grif]

A better question is why Sovereign bothered with the entire plot of the ME series, because nobody would have ever realized he was even hostile if he never attacked Eden Prime. There are a million subtle ways he could have achieved his goals, and most of them didn't require waiting hundreds of years.

I mean, for all anybody else knew, he was just an in-tact Prothean battleship.

Modifié par adam_grif, 25 décembre 2010 - 10:16 .

[NocturnalStillness]

as people have already said it is because they weren't created when ME1 was released.



However if you'd prefer a logical story based reason;



The Collectors were Harbingers troops, each reaper is supposed to be a nation so they probably weren't availble for Sovereign. Don't forget they believed mankind and the other races to be no threat to them, so if Sovereign asked Harbinger to let him use the collectors it would have been seen as a weakness.

[caradoc2000]

I dont get why Sovereign went though all trouble?

Of course you don't. Sovereign explains it himself: "We are beyond your comprehension".

Modifié par caradoc2000, 25 décembre 2010 - 10:21 .

[ResidentNoob]

They didn't use the Collectors in ME1 because they were just sticking to 'Plan A': Open the Citadel Relay, bring in every other Reaper, destroy all organic life.



However, Shepard threw a spanner in the works, which (for lack of a better word) 'impressed' the Reapers. Since humanity was the only species to kill a Reaper in God-knows-how-long, the Reapers decided that they had to have humanity in their ranks, instead of wiping out such a useful species.



Hence, ME2 begins.

[super_gamer]

 I understand that Bioware didn't come up with the idea for the Collectors in Mass Effect 1, but it just bugged me that they never addess it in Mass Effect 2. Thanks for the great answers guys!

[abnocte]

adam_grif wrote...

A better question is why Sovereign bothered with the entire plot of the ME series, because nobody would have ever realized he was even hostile if he never attacked Eden Prime. There are a million subtle ways he could have achieved his goals, and most of them didn't require waiting hundreds of years.

I mean, for all anybody else knew, he was just an in-tact Prothean battleship.

Uh?

Well, he needed Saren to use the beacon to find out why the keepers didn't respond to his call. And since the Council already knew about it, and they sent Nhilus and not Saren, any stealthy approach was doomed from the very begining.

May be Sovereign should have chosen someone else, but Saren makes sense since his Spectre status gave him access to information that would ease the search of the Prothean beacons.

[282xvl]

A second game was requested by fans. It was therefore written and produced. Profit was had.

[adam_grif]

abnocte wrote...

Uh?

Well, he needed Saren to use the beacon to find out why the keepers didn't respond to his call. And since the Council already knew about it, and they sent Nhilus and not Saren, any stealthy approach was doomed from the very begining.

May be Sovereign should have chosen someone else, but Saren makes sense since his Spectre status gave him access to information that would ease the search of the Prothean beacons.

Sovereign already knew why the keepers weren't responding by the events of ME1, he was searching for the conduit so he could do a sneak attack on the Citadel and upload the data file. The issue with the plot is that he wouldn't have needed to do a sneak attack + siege the citadel with a fleet of Geth if he had simply found a more subtle way to get the file there. For instance, using the council's star spectre (SAREN, who had a spotless record and was loved by all until he went rogue and attacked Eden Prime) to simply upload the file, since the terminal he needs to upload it at is about 2 feet away from the place where people adress the council when they arrive in person.

So, Sovereign knew what the Conduit was ahead of time (otherwise he couldn't have known it was a back door into the Citadel), knew that the Beacon on Eden Prime would lead him there, and knew he would need it. Except, he only needed it because he went after it in the first place... This is a confusing circular motivation that appears to me to be an enormous plot hole.

Now, it seems almost certain that the Reaper indoctrination was what "soured the songs of the Rachni queens" and forced them to start the Rachni wars, to gain entrance to the Citadel, presumably so he could work out what was going on and activate the citadel manually. This happened more than 1000 years prior to the events of the game, closer to 1800 years. So, in all this time, he sat around waiting to be discovered by people... for what purpose? 

In ME3, we see that the Reapers have arrived, so they actually didn't need the Citadel. So why did they wait until 2185 to start returning home? Why did they give galactic civilization ~2000 years to prepare that they could have avoided? For the sake of argument, I'll give ME3 the benefit of the doubt, and assume that they somehow find another way into the universe that could not have happened sooner (lets say Haestrom's sun, just as an example). Why didn't the Collectors do anything for the thousands of years they've been sitting there? Mordin states that their progress turning into the cybernetic bugs they are today happened generationally, i.e. that they breed. It stands to reason that they breed to replace losses from old age and battle, so lets assume they can reproduce. Why didn't the Collectors establish themselves as some kind of enigmatic civlization, a non-council race that just kind of keeps to itself on the fringes of space. They could have built up a fleet of Reaper-tech assault vehicles and blitzkreiged the Citadel a thousand years before the events of ME1. Or heck, they could BECOME a council race, and then get their "ambassador" to walk up to the console and manually trigger the Reaper invasion.

Or heck, even pretending the Collectors can't be used for whatever reason, why didn't Sovereign just indoctrinate the first poor sap it came across, then steer itself into council space and present itself as a recovered Prothean battleship. They would send teams of scientists and engineers over to study it... who would all get indoctrinated, give the ship the All-Clear, and if they're fortunate... bring the council on board for a tour of this amazing prothean relic

Ok, lets assume this can't work too. The fact remains, Sovereign had open access to get the council's bestest Spectre to run around on the Citadel for more than a decade. Lets pretend that he didn't know why the Keepers weren't responding, he didn't know what the Conduit was, and he really wanted to find out. Why didn't he just open up the Citadel relay manually, have the other Reapers come through... and worry about that later?

I dunno.

[LorDC]

Best explanation has already been posted in the first reply of this thread. Collectors are not fighting force. They only have one ship and this ship cruiser-class at best.

[UKJackMan]

Taking control of the Citadel was always option 1...the easiest and quickest way...and would almost secure success...

If that failed then the Collectors are option 2 a long and drawn out battle with less chances for success...

Maybe the Collectors would have been unleashed after taking control of the Citadel...So option 1 and 2 would of been the plan anyway...

[Bourne Endeavor]

Probably because the Collectors operated in the Terminus system with only a single ship and would be reduced to ash the moment they so much as sniffed Citadel space.

[Lt.Romic]

Well we know theyve been around for a while cause of the Prothean Beacon vision in one of the exploration missions.

[282xvl]

Collectors had no military relevance. Their tech was arbitrarily declared as "advanced" but beyond questionably useful biochemistry (can build terminators) and questionably valuable ability to detect stealth ships (of which there was ONE) they were never shown to have super tech powers.

They possessed one ship. Size vs SR2 suggests CA or at very best BC class. Yes it had a Thanix cannon main gun - but it was structurally ****** poor. You could argue that with a CA or BC weight Thanix main gun it might be able to stand toe-to-toe against a single DN. But there are many more than 1 DN... and SR2 took it down with a frigate-size thanix (or with some little blue pew-pew - accelerators? gardians lasers? phasers? wizard rays? - if you don't install the Thanix - so its armor is pathetic compared to a DN.

The collector base itself has some occulus thingies but SR2 stomped them with minimal effort. It appeared to be otherwise unarmed.

All this leads me to conclude that sans Omega-4 separation the collectors were irrelevant in a military sense. Kind of like a 5-man navy seal team in darkest Africa. They can beat the everliving hell out of any numerically reasonable force but if they are surrounded by 20,000 zulu they are screwed.

Collectors were not a viable option for taking and holding any defended territory. If the Alliance could have used the Omega-4 relay Hackett could have easily just kicked the door in with 4 DNs and pounded them to scrap.

Modifié par 282xvl, 25 décembre 2010 - 01:52 .

[AlexXIV]

282xvl wrote...

Collectors had no military relevance. Their tech was arbitrarily declared as "advanced" but beyond questionably useful biochemistry (can build terminators) and questionably valuable ability to detect stealth ships (of which there was ONE) they were never shown to have super tech powers.

They possessed one ship. Size vs SR2 suggests CA or at very best BC class. Yes it had a Thanix cannon main gun - but it was structurally ****** poor. You could argue that with a CA or BC weight Thanix main gun it might be able to stand toe-to-toe against a single DN. But there are many more than 1 DN... and SR2 took it down with a frigate-size thanix (or with some little blue pew-pew - accelerators? gardians lasers? phasers? wizard rays? - if you don't install the Thanix - so its armor is pathetic compared to a DN.

The collector base itself has some occulus thingies but SR2 stomped them with minimal effort. It appeared to be otherwise unarmed.

All this leads me to conclude that sans Omega-4 separation the collectors were irrelevant in a military sense. Kind of like a 5-man navy seal team in darkest Africa. They can beat the everliving hell out of any numerically reasonable force but if they are surrounded by 20,000 zulu they are screwed.

Collectors were not a viable option for taking and holding any defended territory. If the Alliance could have used the Omega-4 relay Hackett could have easily just kicked the door in with 4 DNs and pounded them to scrap.

Yeah but if they had shot the Normandy out of the sky over Ilos like they did later at the very start of ME2 then there wouldn't have been an ME2. In essence, for being so much advanced and beyond comprehension, Reapers are pretty dumb.

[Lt.Romic]

Reapers arent dumb theyre just...short sighted and over their heads. They never anticipated the cycle being broken. Despite them leaving a Vanguard(Nazara).

Modifié par Lt.Romic, 25 décembre 2010 - 02:03 .

[Encarmine]

haha i just thought about this, Sovreign should of just acted all cuddly and freindly, and Saren should of been like



'hello Councle, ive founds a freindly Prothean Ship, they wants to dock and say hello, you can trust me im your best spectre, if you dont belive me, Matriach Benizia also can confirm this amazing thing!!'



'hmm ok, lets meet the Prothean Ambassidor, hooray Protheans have returned' - Councle



Sovreign Docks with the Citadel



'I LIED LOL'



Reapers zzap into Citadel. Universe over

[Sajuro]

AlexXIV wrote...

282xvl wrote...

Collectors had no military relevance. Their tech was arbitrarily declared as "advanced" but beyond questionably useful biochemistry (can build terminators) and questionably valuable ability to detect stealth ships (of which there was ONE) they were never shown to have super tech powers.

They possessed one ship. Size vs SR2 suggests CA or at very best BC class. Yes it had a Thanix cannon main gun - but it was structurally ****** poor. You could argue that with a CA or BC weight Thanix main gun it might be able to stand toe-to-toe against a single DN. But there are many more than 1 DN... and SR2 took it down with a frigate-size thanix (or with some little blue pew-pew - accelerators? gardians lasers? phasers? wizard rays? - if you don't install the Thanix - so its armor is pathetic compared to a DN.

The collector base itself has some occulus thingies but SR2 stomped them with minimal effort. It appeared to be otherwise unarmed.

All this leads me to conclude that sans Omega-4 separation the collectors were irrelevant in a military sense. Kind of like a 5-man navy seal team in darkest Africa. They can beat the everliving hell out of any numerically reasonable force but if they are surrounded by 20,000 zulu they are screwed.

Collectors were not a viable option for taking and holding any defended territory. If the Alliance could have used the Omega-4 relay Hackett could have easily just kicked the door in with 4 DNs and pounded them to scrap.

Yeah but if they had shot the Normandy out of the sky over Ilos like they did later at the very start of ME2 then there wouldn't have been an ME2. In essence, for being so much advanced and beyond comprehension, Reapers are pretty dumb.

and if Saren hadn't used bombs that could be disarmed by crouching in front of them for twenty seconds, there wouldn't have been a mass effect 1

[Winterfly]

If everything was logical in games, we would not sit here now with a game in our hand.



Remember, Sovereign needed to open the relay, He couldn't. Reapers to me seem rather arrogant so they just dont "do it". I also believe the reaper aimed to remove possible threats, like billions of hungry Krogans, Rachni, Geths, Very very angry Turians and Humans. Maybe Sovereign suddenly got cold feets when Turians and Humans suddenly built a high tech ship and called it a prototype. He had to hurry, no more waiting.



A few hundred thousand Normanyd with thanix cannons. Add on to that if we think ME2, Krogans united, Rachni returning, Geth reunited as a "legion" and a council we do find this threat really big and we prolly have one hell of a big battle coming that the reaper are afraid of losing so they fly, fly from dark space. Which will seemingly take god damn long time.



After Sovereign fails, Harbringers collectors fails, I presume they see their only option left. A invasion by "foot".



Reapers, are not to be comprehended by mere humans. Their actions reason are only known by them and I am pretty sure they grown arrogant and flawed, thinkin they are invurnable after so many cycles of mass destruction of organics.



Also, they are so deep into routine that now when the citadel mass relay didn't open they clearly gone a bit "What now?" which proves they do fear, they are too used to how they always done and dont really know what to do.



Hacket, Turians, Ascension or whatever could prolly take out the collector base but no one really felt it was a big threat. No one cared for Cerberus or Shepard.



Im the new guy here, but I dont think we should be so picky on why the reapers didnt do this or that. It's like asking why the villians in Bond never just shot him instead of saying their whole masterplan or why Sauron never just massed his armies more properly and used some proper logic sense.



Hell, Mass effect 1 was even one of the first movies or games I seen where they say "Make sure his dead" and damn was that smart thinking? Sadly reapers can use the dead for possession.