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What is the best outcome for Alistair &/or Ferelden?


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#226
ejoslin

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Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Anora lets Alistair live if solo queen or married to the warden provided he renounces all claims to the throne.  the only time there's an uprising is if he's a drunk.  There's just no indication anywhere that she calls for Alistair's execution except in that one circumstance, and in that circumstance he is refusing to renounce his claim.  And even when he refuses to renounce his claim, Anora will still let him live if the warden requests it.  There is no reason to think that she would kill him -- nothing in game suggests that -- provided he does renounce it.

That's not really true.  He's just saying he wants to leave, and as Anora well knows, he never wanted the throne to begin with.  She never even gives him a chance to renounce his claim in that instance.  It's just my guess, but I'd say Anora would prefer to execute Alistair in any case but that is the only case where she feels politically secure enough to do it.  Otherwise she assumes the Warden would back Alistair over her, but in this case she sees the Warden taking Loghain's side.  The game sort of plays with this idea by having her say "they've taken her to Fort Drakon" (in the case of a female Warden) and Eamon corrects her, saying they need to get Alistair out, too.

Edit: I also don't think a political marriage has anything to do with love.  That doesn't mean an empty, soulless existence, however.  Alistair as solo king will also have to marry someone he doesn't love -- someone who may not be nearly as good an administrator as Anora.  

Not necessarily.  At least when he's made solo king, he'll have a chance to pick someone he likes better than Anora.  It will always have to be a political choice, but doesn't have to be a woman he dislikes and who doesn't respect him.


There is nothing in game to indicate that Anora wants to execute Alistair if he relinquishes his claim to the throne.  And he makes it very clear that he wants the throne, IF you spare Loghain, to execute him.

Edit: Look at it this way.  Anora doesn't give Alistair a chance to renounce his claim to the throne, because IF he ever gets it, he will execute her father.  No matter what your view is on Alistair's reaction there (and i am NOT debating that, just trying to clear up some misinformation regarding WHEN Anora calls for his execution), if you kill Loghain, Alistair will renounce his claim to the throne, hardened or not.

second edit: I'm looking up the line where he says he wants to be king so he can kill Loghain. 

yes, it's only if you spare Loghain that he demands the throne.

Hardened: I see I need to take matters into my own hands. I demand justice, and that means I take the throne. I will be king.
Unhardened: I didn't want to be king. I still don't. But... if that's what it takes to see Loghain get justice, then I'll do it. I'll take the crown.

But really, this is aside from the point I was trying to make.  It's ONLY if you spare loghain that Anora calls for Alistair's execution.  If you kill Loghain, Alistair being executed is never brought up.  At all.  He continues to be a gray warden.  presumably happily.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 janvier 2011 - 05:09 .


#227
Addai

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Right, I forgot about that. However, Anora doesn't ask him to swear an oath of fealty as she otherwise does. She could have done that.

#228
ejoslin

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Addai67 wrote...

Right, I forgot about that. However, Anora doesn't ask him to swear an oath of fealty as she otherwise does. She could have done that.


No, she does not.  Again, I did not want to get into a discussion regarding Alistair's behavior after you spare Loghain.  I was just trying to clear up when Anora calls for Alistair's execution.  It's only if you spare Loghain.  

#229
KnightofPhoenix

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ejoslin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Right, I forgot about that. However, Anora doesn't ask him to swear an oath of fealty as she otherwise does. She could have done that.


No, she does not.  Again, I did not want to get into a discussion regarding Alistair's behavior after you spare Loghain.  I was just trying to clear up when Anora calls for Alistair's execution.  It's only if you spare Loghain.  


Probably because Alistair, quite astutely, decided to throw his last ace in the hole (beign a Warden and fighting the Blight) down the sink.

#230
ejoslin

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Right, I forgot about that. However, Anora doesn't ask him to swear an oath of fealty as she otherwise does. She could have done that.


No, she does not.  Again, I did not want to get into a discussion regarding Alistair's behavior after you spare Loghain.  I was just trying to clear up when Anora calls for Alistair's execution.  It's only if you spare Loghain.  


Probably because Alistair, quite astutely, decided to throw his last ace in the hole (beign a Warden and fighting the Blight) down the sink.


honestly, I think Anora is just worried that Alistair will not give up the fight of trying to get her father killed.  He cannot take the throne then, but what's to stop him from trying in the future?  I certainly wouldn't trust an oath of fealty from someone who has made it clear that he would become king for the sole purpose of executing my father who has as strong of a claim as Alistair does.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 janvier 2011 - 05:24 .


#231
KnightofPhoenix

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Obviously that's her intent. But it's Alistair leaving that allows her to act on those intents (because she doesn't kill him if Loghain is killed, not even after the Blight is finished), and he solely is to be blamed for that. Just like Bhelen probably wanted to dissolve the Assembly anyways, but only did so after the Assembly decided to assassinate him several times. Like they gave Bhelen the pretext he needed, so did Alistair give Anora the pretext because clearly he wasn't thinking properly.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 01 janvier 2011 - 05:31 .


#232
jpdipity

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ejoslin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Right, I forgot about that. However, Anora doesn't ask him to swear an oath of fealty as she otherwise does. She could have done that.


No, she does not.  Again, I did not want to get into a discussion regarding Alistair's behavior after you spare Loghain.  I was just trying to clear up when Anora calls for Alistair's execution.  It's only if you spare Loghain.  


Thanks for the clarification.  I've never killed Loghain myself with a hardened Alistair and put Anora on the throne.  I thought she still asked him to relinquish his rights in that case. 

Another Wiki error - what a shocker Image IPB or maybe I just read the tables wrong...  Wiki states that under those conditions, he has to renounce his rights.