66 réponses à ce sujet

[Spartas Husky]

was so so... could have been a lot better

[CroGamer002]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Fantastic expansion game.

How did you come out of 30+ hours game with completely different engine to be expansion to 15+ hours game?

Weak sequel.

Story wise, kinda.
Gameplay wise, definitely not.

The general consensus by word of the Internet is while the Recruitment/Loyal missions are some of the best in gaming. The main plot of ME2 is relatively weak and inferior to its predecessor.Gameplay wise, ME2 is the superior product but could use a little more customization, specifically in upgrades.

OK you just killed "Weak sequel" statement.

Oh and no helmet toggle sucks.

Don't wear helmet then?

[Phaedon]

kmcd5722 wrote...
Sound pretty damn arrogant  yourself.  Just because some people prefer ME1 doesn't make all of them haters.  And there is also a small fraction of those within those who preferred ME1 more that see themselves being outvoiced by the overwhelming majority of praise for ME2, and thus refuse to back down.  This is often interpreted as hating, and I can see why.  But not all of it is, as some just prefer the original, and offer their criticism constructively to see a positive change for ME3, versus simply "hating on ME2" because they have nothing better to do but to be snobs, as you so infer.  Next time, watch the generalities, and be open to criticism if you want to dish it.

Except that you don't disagree with him so far. You basically make a good sounding title for the vocal minority, and say that not everyone who prefered ME1 is like that, while he states:

and arrogant users still won't admit anything.

It looks pretty clear to me. I can't understand how you were able to make the connection between people who like ME1 better with the arrogant elitists, who troll their way around BSN posting stuff like 'Awesome, lol no (insert link to their own thread here)'. 

Again, the general consensus is pretty clear, any evidence that you are looking for is there, from memes and general acceptance in gaming forums to user ratings on stores and choice awards. 

As for the people who try to pull the 'but, but, not everyone played me1' card, don't even go there. Pleeeeeease.. 

Modifié par Phaedon, 27 décembre 2010 - 12:18 .

[Babli]

Phaedon wrote...
As for the people who try to pull the 'but, but, not everyone played me1' card, don't even go there. Pleeeeeease.. 

Why? It´s a FACT that 50% of people who played ME 2 didn´t play first ME.
And dont make me start about shooter fans who skips all dialogues. You know there are a lot of them

[Phaedon]

Babli wrote...

Why? It´s a FACT that 50% of people who played ME 2 didn´t play first ME.
And dont make me start about shooter fans who skips all dialogues. You know there are a lot of them

But if you take the 'Most shooter fans skip the dialogue' as a fact -while it's not- then your own point collapses. No shooter fan would like to play ME1, which mainly relied on it's story.

Except if I am missing your point. Who are the 50% people who only played ME2? 

And why is it that everywhere I go I see ME2 praised for it's 'Great story, Great characters, Great epic atmosphere'?

[Da_Lion_Man]

Phaedon wrote...

And why is it that everywhere I go I see ME2 praised for it's 'Great story, Great characters, Great epic atmosphere'?

I know, it's kind of ridiculous IMO how ME2 gets so much praise.
Then again what is "everywhere"? If it's a place like NeoGAF or Gamefaqs then I won't bother with their opinions.

[Phaedon]

Nah, not gaming forums, mainly sites with user reviews and sites that host awards.

[Babli]

Phaedon wrote...
No shooter fan would like to play ME1, which mainly relied on it's story.

Exactly...

Phaedon wrote...
Except if I am missing your point. Who are the 50% people who only played ME2?

Phaedon wrote...
And why is it that everywhere I go I see ME2 praised for it's 'Great story, Great characters, Great epic atmosphere'?

Because it´s far more mainstream oriented game then first ME.

[AlexXIV]

I guess the general consensus is that it is a good game but could have been a better game. Not a big surprise, or is it?

Modifié par AlexXIV, 27 décembre 2010 - 01:59 .

[Phaedon]

Babli wrote...

You do know that these count multiple Sheps, right? So yes, I did skip Jacob/TIM/etc's dialogue as well. And I still don't see your point, are 'shooter fans' not worthy of making a consensus? The general consensus is that people liked ME2, I don't see what's your problem with it.

Because it´s far more mainstream oriented game then first ME.

Ah yes, being mainstream is a bad thing, we have dismissed that claim. And before you use music as an example, let me remind you that quality music did use to be mainstream.

[Archereon]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

I'm guessing the general consensus is that it's a great game. Notice how nearly everyone likes or loves the game outside of these forums. The forums here can be a bit harsh towards ME2 but then again, that's pretty typical for a developer forum.

     Many people playing this game outside the forums are shooter fans, evidenced by the fact that male soldier Shepards who played through 1 time only or less make up more Shepards than every other Shepard combined.  Not that there's anything wrong with that, just noting that shooter fans tend to care more about gameplay than story (which is why most shooter games, even if they have an elaborate backstory (such as Halo) tend to go light on stortytelling). 
     In my opinion, the latter was made absolutely horrendous, despite the fact that, paradoxially, the game's writing was far better,  (Writing being the induvidual line, story being the overall plot, or lack of (lack of a strong one anyway) in this case.) by certain events near the beginning, the end, and the middle of the game...
(Shepard's ressurection, the collectors are Protheans, ITS A HUMAN REAPER!!1!!1!!!1!)

Perhaps that's just me nitpicking on minor parts of the story, but really, the game felt much more like a TV show, and a rather episodic show at that, with strong writing in the induvidual episodes, but a weak continuity and a forced Myth Arc, rather than a continuous, highly planned story you expect from movies/books.


Now as to why I think its horrendous, rather than "merely average", that would be because I'm still of the opinion that anyone who can die in Mass Effect will be dummied out of the game and given an email with a poor explanation, or a brief cameo.  Technology just isn't advanced enough to give us all our squaddies back without making the game 5 hours long, or giving it a price tag higher than Avatar.  With the exception of an MMO guranteed to take down WoW, I don't think EA would shell out 600 million for any game, even their big cash cow franchises like Mass Effect.

While there's the third option of making dialogue with killable characters largely linear and giving them only a few lines, I do hope Bioware doesn't even consider that.

And if the squaddies are gone, the game's story will have been retroactively ruined...Forever...

Modifié par Archereon, 27 décembre 2010 - 03:00 .

[Da_Lion_Man]

Archereon wrote...

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

I'm guessing the general consensus is that it's a great game. Notice how nearly everyone likes or loves the game outside of these forums. The forums here can be a bit harsh towards ME2 but then again, that's pretty typical for a developer forum.

     Many people playing this game outside the forums are shooter fans, evidenced by the fact that male soldier Shepards who played through 1 time only or less make up more Shepards than every other Shepard combined.  Not that there's anything wrong with that, just noting that shooter fans tend to care more about gameplay than story (which is why most shooter games, even if they have an elaborate backstory (such as Halo) tend to go light on stortytelling). 
     In my opinion, the latter was made absolutely horrendous, despite the fact that, paradoxially, the game's writing was far better,  (Writing being the induvidual line, story being the overall plot, or lack of (lack of a strong one anyway) in this case.) by certain events near the beginning, the end, and the middle of the game...
(Shepard's ressurection, the collectors are Protheans, ITS A HUMAN REAPER!!1!!1!!!1!)

Perhaps that's just me nitpicking on minor parts of the story, but really, the game felt much more like a TV show, and a rather episodic show at that, with strong writing in the induvidual episodes, but a weak continuity and a forced Myth Arc, rather than a continuous, highly planned story you expect from movies/books.

I understand what you mean and I agree, but I'm not sure if what you say about shooter fans is true. This game is pretty much universally loved on sites such as Gamefaqs and NeoGAF. Two of the biggest gaming communities on the internet. Even though I don't really trust those sites because those communities can be really selective and are a bit of a hive mind, I think it still says something.

[CroGamer002]

@Archereon

Do you have a problem with shooter fans?<_<

[Archereon]

Mesina2 wrote...

@Archereon

Do you have a problem with shooter fans?<_<

No.  But if you look at shooter games, they have a different approach to storytelling than most RPGs.

Storytelling is generally light, and avoids long sequences where the action is interrupted.  While nothing is wrong with that style of storytelling, particularly in games like Half Life, where the lack of cutscenes, music, and the like add to the atmosphere and help immerse the player, it just doesn't appeal to me personally when its applied to an RPG.
In Mass Effect 2, most mandatory conversations were extremely short (compared to long winded conversations such as Vigil and Sovereign in ME1), and many missions had almost no dialogue in them (Purgatory, Grunt's recruitment mission and his loyalty mission to a lesser extent), something more in line with shooter game storytelling than RPG storytelling (Bioware RPG storytelling at least.)

Modifié par Archereon, 27 décembre 2010 - 03:27 .

[Jonathan Shepard]

Melindil wrote...

Babli wrote...

General concensus is, that ME 2 is awesome game.

...but not so awesome sequel.

My thoughts exactly.

Consensus reached. 

[GodWood]

Great game.

Lots of flaws.

[Babli]

Phaedon wrote...
You do know that these count multiple Sheps, right? So yes, I did skip Jacob/TIM/etc's dialogue as well. And I still don't see your point, are 'shooter fans' not worthy of making a consensus? The general consensus is that people liked ME2, I don't see what's your problem with it.

I know but there are still many players who didn´t play first ME. And about consensus..now I dont see your point. Let me quote myself from this very thread.

Babli wrote...

General concensus is, that ME 2 is awesome game.

...but not so awesome sequel.

Ah yes, being mainstream is a bad thing, we have dismissed that claim. And before you use music as an example, let me remind you that quality music did use to be mainstream.

I´m going to use movies. That´s appropriate. Look at original Star Wars Trilogy and new. If you don´t see it then it´s not my problem.

Modifié par Babli, 27 décembre 2010 - 04:05 .

[JamieCOTC]

Babli wrote...

General concensus is, that ME 2 is awesome game.

...but not so awesome sequel.

I'll add a ditto here. 

Gameplay = fantastic
Mini Stories = Meh to great
Main Plot = suck
ME2 as a sequel to ME1 = Commander Shepard who? 

Modifié par JamieCOTC, 27 décembre 2010 - 04:11 .

[CroGamer002]

JamieCOTC wrote...

Babli wrote...

General concensus is, that ME 2 is awesome game.

...but not so awesome sequel.

I'll add a ditto here. 

Gameplay = fantastic
Mini Stories = Meh to great
Main Plot = suck
ME2 as a sequel to ME1 = Commander Shepard who? 

Ha?

[darth_lopez]

I'd guess that the general consensus is that it's amazing.

now if you're talking about the forum's general consensus. My guess is most feel it lacks a "Bioware Standard" story and is bad at being a sequel.

my opinion it's a decent sequel but a better Prequel to ME 3 and a fun enjoyably awesome game with a decent, though occasionally lacking story, but that could be my personal preferrence and just the way the main missions were presented to me. However after taking my time this last playthrough and not speeding through i'm finding it's not that bad though.

i do miss my ME 1 menus though substantially....i miss the stores i miss the inventory i miss squad management v.v i sorely want those things back in ME 3, the upgrade system is perfect, give us about as many guns as there are in ME 2 now(dlc included) default in ME 3 and just as many armors(dlc included) by default and i think it will be a fine RPG. But for now ME falls into the area of Pseudo RPG. having just enough RPG elements in game play to barely qualify as an RPG but taking a much more TPS combat oriented style thus a pseudo rpg.

but yeah ....ME 2 could'a been a bit better.

Ah yes, being mainstream is a bad thing, we have dismissed
that claim. And before you use music as an example, let me remind you
that quality music did use to be mainstream.

I´m going to
use movies. That´s appropriate. Look at original Star Wars Trilogy and
new. If you don´t see it then it´s not my problem.

Weak argument. sorry but any decent star wars fan knows that the problems occuring today from star wars aren't from it being main stream, granted it's been a main stream sci-fi since abotu the time it came out and until now (pick your poison Prequels or Clone Wars for me it's the clone wars) it had been going just fine in the EU and it's still going pretty good in the EU. However George Lucas's money lust has lead him to attempt to kill the franchise....it is unfortunate to say the least but the Clone Wars attrocity on Cartoon network best exemplifies this as you can clearly tell it was scripted for children much like a candy cigarette it's designed to catch'em and keep'em. This isn't becaus it's Main stream this is because George wants to keep the series going and keep making money. Something he'll soon find out he can't do with his current methods.

Being Main stream isn't a flaw it exemplifies how well written you are. Lest you want ME to be not mainstream that would mean it would most likely fail as a series/trilogy and it's respective sequels would never be made. Halo is a perfect example of how mainstreaminess works. You have an awesome game Halo one that leads to Halo 2 which is awesomer and continues the story then you have halo 3 which sorta sucked. The company owns up to it and bungie is all like we're sorry please forgive us. They then produce Halo Reach which is arguably Slightly better than Halo CE and much better than Halos 2 and 3. Halo Being Main Stream Did not affect the quality of the game out of 4 games it was bound 1 would be the lesser than the others unfortunately that one was the game that was supposed to end the series. For ME lets hope that's ME 2 and ME 3 will continue on with Bioware Tradition of Being Epic not just good.

and lets face it if BW wasn't a mainstream RPG maker known for their epic sotries you'd have never bought the first game. and if it hadn't gone mainstream, as almost all BW games do eventually, you'd probably not have bought ME 2.

Modifié par darth_lopez, 27 décembre 2010 - 04:41 .

[Teknor]

The game is a good RPG shooter. I like it.

[azerSheppard]

Consus achieved;

Needs moar reapers/

[Phaedon]

Babli wrote...
I know but there are still many players who didn´t play first ME. And about consensus..now I dont see your point. Let me quote myself from this very thread.

So, you base "The not so awesome sequel" on the fact that no so many people who reviewed positively ME2 have played ME1? 

I´m going to use movies. That´s appropriate. Look at original Star Wars Trilogy and new. If you don´t see it then it´s not my problem.

But the original trilogy was what I'd call popular/mainstream as well. I don't see how  being mainstream and popular is a bad thing.

[Babli]

Phaedon wrote...
So, you base "The not so awesome sequel" on the fact that no so many people who reviewed positively ME2 have played ME1?

]
That´s just a fact that many people didn´t play first ME. I dont know why you refuse to accept it. And there are more reasons why it isn´t so great sequel. But I believe there are a lot of threads about this.

Phaedon wrote...
But the original trilogy was what I'd call popular/mainstream as well. I don't see how  being mainstream and popular is a bad thing.

As you said with music, mainstream was different back then. Mass Effect 2 follows mainly what is popular today. A lot of action, less exploration and rpg elements, simple story, even music... It definitely isn´t so deep experience as was ME1.

Modifié par Babli, 27 décembre 2010 - 06:13 .

[shnizzler93]

Babli wrote...

That´s just a fact that many people didn´t play first ME.

As I recall, several million people bought (and played) the first ME...Also, the reviewers wouldn't have been so excited for Mass Effect 2 if they hadn't played the first one, because many were anticipating how their decisions from the first would affect the game world of the second.