139 réponses à ce sujet

[MerinTB]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
pro-DA2-change folks inadvertently end up lumping in fans who wish DA2 was more like Baldurs Gate with fans who wish DA2 was more like DAO.

Particularly annoying for me as I DON'T want DA2 anymore like BG2 (save 6 party members, sure, and choosing your own name and race - but those are hardly defining qualities of BG2)...

I'd rather have it more like DA:O, sure...
but I am not someone with BG2 up on a pedestal.   Far from.

[Da_Lion_Man]

_Loc_N_lol_ wrote...

kingthrall wrote...

I highly doubt its most antipated game next year, consider the massive compeitition

1. Witcher 2 (my personal choice)
2. Duke nukem forever
3. Starcrat 2 (expansion)
4. Announced next year Elder scrolls 5 Skyrimm
5. Diablo 3
6. Mass effect 3
7. Dawn Of war 2 Retribution
8. Shogun II total war

Is it just me, or is this list entirely made up of sequels ?

What's so bad about that?
There aren't many new IPs coming next year I think. 

[In Exile]

tmp7704 wrote...
How are you when it comes to variety of your meals, though? I.e. are you perfectly content to have pancakes every day, or does it get boring after a while, and you'd rather something different though equally tasty?

This is what gets affected by getting your options limited, the ability to break the monotony. Granted, it doesn't affect everyone hence question about your personal take on it.

I think the problem is that I don't actually like variety. One of the ways my friends make fun of me is that I almost quite literally eat about 10 different things. That isn't quite true, but if I like something, I don't want anything more than a slight change to the formula.

So I wouldn't like the same identical pancake every day, but would like pancakes every day. Put another way, I would get bored of DA:O eventually, but even the same game with content (same dialogue system, combat, etc.) like an expansion, would keep me into it more or less forever.

MerinTB wrote...
Just think of something you DO like variety
in?

This is where you get into difficulty. I'm just not big on variety. There are things I like, in which case I don't care. And there are things I dislike, in which case I avoid them. There really isn't a middle ground.

I can get why variety is good. But I am indifferent between variety or not. I can't think of a good way to explain it. If I find something I like more than something previously (PC VO over silent VO), I want it to replace all possible instances.

MerinTB wrote..
You honestly don't understand people wanting
variety, and being upset when they lose variety despite how much they
may normally love what they are left with as an option?

Quite honestly. Because I am one of those "more of the same" type people. So long as I like something, constantly getting the thing I like works for me. Small variations (like new plot content in a video-game, or new stories in the same genre) are good enough.

There is a reason I like those things, after all.

ETA:

Let me put it this way: the probability is quite high I will be a tax lawyer in three years time and that it will be something I enjoy. To give you a sense for my position on what most people consider monotony.

Modifié par In Exile, 27 décembre 2010 - 07:07 .

[MerinTB]

In Exile wrote...

MerinTB wrote..
You honestly don't understand people wanting
variety, and being upset when they lose variety despite how much they
may normally love what they are left with as an option?

Quite honestly. Because I am one of those "more of the same" type people. So long as I like something, constantly getting the thing I like works for me. Small variations (like new plot content in a video-game, or new stories in the same genre) are good enough.

There is a reason I like those things, after all.

Ok then.

You DO understand liking something, and wanting to stick with it, and not needing that something to change?

Am I understanding that correctly?

So...

you CAN understand when people like feature or a style of game and DON'T want that changed, right?

Or are you just being obtuse to disagree?

If you are

one of those "more of the same" type people. So long as I like something, constantly getting the thing I like works for me.

then you DO understand people not wanting their game changed from what they like, are used to, are comfortable with... to something else.

You CAN understand those people with those sentiments, then?

[FreezaSama]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

"DA2 sucks because they got rid of the origins TW2 will be much better" is an argument that has been made fairly often - though perhaps not as crudely - at least enough that we're commenting on it, and that's a position that really doesn't make a lot of sense when taken at face value.

I have no faith that Two Worlds II will be any good. Better than the original? Probably. But the first game was so abysmal, that doesn't really mean much.

[upsettingshorts]

Considering we've been talking about folks who don't like the changes made to DA2 and then point to TW2 as the game that is better I think that rules out that argument Merin.

It's one thing to argue that DAO is being changed into something you don't like because X, Y, Z and you want to see more of those things. It's entirely different to then go on to say you're looking forward to TW2 over DA2, despite the fact it doesn't provide X, Y, Z either. In that case, we have to address the issues of expecations and the value in variety - not consistency itself.

In Exile is simply explaining that he doesn't particularly value variety for its own sake.

FreezaSama wrote...

I have no faith that Two Worlds II will be any good. Better than the original? Probably. But the first game was so abysmal, that doesn't really mean much.

TW2 in this case means The Witcher 2:  Assassin of Kings.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 décembre 2010 - 07:15 .

[In Exile]

MerinTB wrote..

Ok then.

You DO understand liking something, and wanting to stick with it, and not needing that something to change?

Am I understanding that correctly?

So...

you CAN understand when people like feature or a style of game and DON'T want that changed, right?

Or are you just being obtuse to disagree?

I don't think you appreciate what we are debating.

We talked about how some will say The Witcher 2 is going into the right direction, but DA2 is going into the wrong direction.

I said that I never understood the complaint, because the features are quite close, and where TW2 diverges from DA2, it is to have even more of a predefined character or action-RPG features.

So I ended with a statement that I was confused, because if such features as in TW2 are good, and DA2 has them, then why is DA2 not good as well?

I can understand liking DA2 less than DA:O because you might like those features less. So DA:O > DA2/TW2 makes sense. DA2 = TW2 > DA:O makes sense. But otherwise?

If you are

one of those "more of the same" type people. So long as I like something, constantly getting the thing I like works for me.

then you DO understand people not wanting their game changed from what they like, are used to, are comfortable with... to something else.

You CAN understand those people with those sentiments, then?

Sure. But that leads to the problem that DA:O was really nothing like the Witcher. So in that case, I would be even more confused about why the Witcher 2 is going in the "right" direction, and DA2 is in the "wrong" direction.

It comes back to me to either liking features like PC VO, paraphrases, action-oriented combat  or not. If you do, then both TW2 and DA2 are good. If you don't, then both are bad.

But one being good, and the other being bad, in virtue of the same features?

That's where I don't see it.

Modifié par In Exile, 27 décembre 2010 - 07:21 .

[tmp7704]

In Exile wrote...

I think the problem is that I don't actually like variety. One of the ways my friends make fun of me is that I almost quite literally eat about 10 different things. That isn't quite true, but if I like something, I don't want anything more than a slight change to the formula.

Ahh, i see. In this case yes, can understand how you could not consider it really a problem if the variety of available products becomes narrowed

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

MerinTB wrote...

In Exile wrote...

MerinTB wrote..
You honestly don't understand people wanting
variety, and being upset when they lose variety despite how much they
may normally love what they are left with as an option?

Quite honestly. Because I am one of those "more of the same" type people. So long as I like something, constantly getting the thing I like works for me. Small variations (like new plot content in a video-game, or new stories in the same genre) are good enough.

There is a reason I like those things, after all.

Ok then.

You DO understand liking something, and wanting to stick with it, and not needing that something to change?

Am I understanding that correctly?

So...

you CAN understand when people like feature or a style of game and DON'T want that changed, right?

Or are you just being obtuse to disagree?

If you are

one of those "more of the same" type people. So long as I like something, constantly getting the thing I like works for me.

then you DO understand people not wanting their game changed from what they like, are used to, are comfortable with... to something else.

You CAN understand those people with those sentiments, then?

I've learned something about Exile over the last couple months, he's obtuse for the sake of having something to debate about.

[upsettingshorts]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

I've learned something about Exile over the last couple months, he's obtuse for the sake of having something to debate about.

I've learned something about CoS Sarah Jinstar over the last couple months, she doesn't so much as follow entire arguments as wait until she can isolate a specific post or comment and ignore the context.

Seriously, Merin's raising questions of an argument In Exile isn't really making - we've been talking about something else.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 décembre 2010 - 07:26 .

[Dave of Canada]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

I've learned something about Exile over the last couple months, he's obtuse for the sake of having something to debate about.

I've learned something about CoS Sarah Jinstar over the last couple months, she doesn't so much as follow entire arguments as wait until she can isolate a specific post or comment and ignore the context.

*can't resist*
i learned something about halo, eh kills aliens and doesnt afraid of anything

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 27 décembre 2010 - 07:27 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

I've learned something about Exile over the last couple months, he's obtuse for the sake of having something to debate about.

I've learned something about CoS Sarah Jinstar over the last couple months, she doesn't so much as follow entire arguments as wait until she can isolate a specific post or comment and ignore the context.

When the same content has been rehashed a dozen times over whats the point at that junture? Really? It tends to just get old. Basically people that call themselves RPG fans, want the game to be so over simplified and stripped down of any complexity that to be honest imo makes the title hardly an RPG at all at that point to begin with.

[Dave of Canada]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

When the same content has been rehashed a dozen times over whats the point at that junture? Really? It tends to just get old. Basically people that call themselves RPG fans, want the game to be so over simplified and stripped down of any complexity that to be honest imo makes the title hardly an RPG at all at that point to begin with.

So... "What is an RPG"? Seriously? What does that have to do with the discussion?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 27 décembre 2010 - 07:29 .

[upsettingshorts]

Which is of course, not what we're talking about. Unless you want to dispute that:

"I dislike the changes being made from DA:O to DA2"
isn't different from
"I dislike the changes being made from DA:O to DA2, I'm going to preorder The Witcher 2 instead."

The former is what Merin is talking about, and you commented on. The latter is what In Exile and I were talking about.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 décembre 2010 - 07:29 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

When the same content has been rehashed a dozen times over whats the point at that junture? Really? It tends to just get old. Basically people that call themselves RPG fans, want the game to be so over simplified and stripped down of any complexity that to be honest imo makes the title hardly an RPG at all at that point to begin with.

So... "What is an RPG"? Seriously? What does that have to do with the discussion?

Not really, was kinda trying to avoid that, considering we've hashed that out a dozen and a half times already.

[Bigdoser]

I can't see why some people can't just be happy that the fact that DA 2 got the most anticipated game of 2011. Anyway why does some people need to compare their games and just enjoy what they have? I believe that both games will be really good and I will have two rpgs that will last me a few months.

[In Exile]

Upsettingshorts wrote..

I've learned something about CoS Sarah Jinstar over the last couple months, she doesn't so much as follow entire arguments as wait until she can isolate a specific post or comment and ignore the context.

ETA:

Unless it's hex based turn-based combat. But that is a feature I will likely never see outside of a Heroes of Might and Magic game again. 

Seriously, Merin's raising questions of an argument In Exile isn't really making - we've been talking about something else.

The problem is that because I like some of the features of DA2 (particularly PC VO and non-customizable armour) and don't really care about all the other features so long as they're well-executed, people just attribute views to me I don't have.

Case in point:

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

When the same content has been
rehashed a dozen times over whats the point at that junture? Really? It
tends to just get old. Basically people that call themselves RPG fans,
want the game to be so over simplified and stripped down of any
complexity that to be honest imo makes the title hardly an RPG at all at
that point to begin with.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the last 2 pages.

Modifié par In Exile, 27 décembre 2010 - 07:34 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Which is of course, not what we're talking about. Unless you want to dispute that:

"I dislike the changes being made from DA:O to DA2"
isn't different from
"I dislike the changes being made from DA:O to DA2, I'm going to preorder The Witcher 2 instead."

The former is what Merin is talking about, and you commented on. The latter is what In Exile and I were talking about.

Thats really what it all boils down to tho AngryPants, the people who are all for DA2 and generally trumpet it like its the next coming, want the stripped down customization, they want the ME2 treatment. That's the crux of any disagreement on the DA2 forum, whether ya want to admit it or not.

[upsettingshorts]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Thats really what it all boils down to tho AngryPants, the people who are all for DA2 and generally trumpet it like its the next coming, want the stripped down customization, they want the ME2 treatment. That's the crux of any disagreement on the DA2 forum, whether ya want to admit it or not.

Which is one part of the issue.  For someone who says they don't like less customization, the voiced protagonist, or actiony combat to then go on to say they are going to buy The Witcher 2 instead makes no sense because it has all of those features relative to DAO as well.

The crux of this disagreement is actually over the value of variety.  Not the relative merits of DAO, DA2, Mass Effect, or The Witcher 1-2.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 décembre 2010 - 07:35 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Thats really what it all boils down to tho AngryPants, the people who are all for DA2 and generally trumpet it like its the next coming, want the stripped down customization, they want the ME2 treatment. That's the crux of any disagreement on the DA2 forum, whether ya want to admit it or not.

Which is one part of the issue.  For someone who says they don't like less customization, the voiced protagonist, or actiony combat to then go on to say they are going to buy The Witcher 2 instead makes no sense because it has all of those features relative to DAO as well.

The crux of this disagreement is actually over the value of variety.  Not the relative merits of DAO, DA2, Mass Effect, or The Witcher 1-2.

Fair enough. I actually tried multiple times to get into The Witcher myself, but that "click click click" action combo combat drove me up a damnable wall.

[upsettingshorts]

It definitely wasn't my favorite part of the game, but I do think it got better later on as it became more important to mix stances/styles and signs in order to be effective. Coming from Conan's combo system though the whole experience struck me as overly simplistic. On the face of it, they're both basically a "Simon Says" kind of quicktime mechanic, but there was far less variety in The Witcher so it was almost too easy. I don't think I ever mistimed a swing.

But yeah, the conversation was basically about variety and expectations.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 décembre 2010 - 07:44 .

[Addai]

In Exile wrote...

Right. People who tend to bring up the Witcher tend to bringing up as an example of how to build a PC-only RPG right. But it has the same features as DA2. So that is where I am confused.

If you liked The Witcher to begin with, you're not likely to have problems with such things as voiced protagonist, twitchy combat and a fixed character.

I liked TW for what it was.  The price point is also nicer for the sequel than DA2's.  I see TW2 on sale for $45.  I haven't pre-ordered that, either, but haven't seen that price anywhere for DA2.

[In Exile]

Addai67 wrote...
If you liked The Witcher to begin with, you're not likely to have problems with such things as voiced protagonist, twitchy combat and a fixed character.

I liked TW for what it was.  The price point is also nicer for the sequel than DA2's.  I see TW2 on sale for $45.  I haven't pre-ordered that, either, but haven't seen that price anywhere for DA2.

Sure, I get that. But would you say that if you're dissapointed in DA2, then you're going to get TW2 because that's the way an RPG should be? That's basically my wtf moment.

[Gavinthelocust]

Wonderful to see that no matter what the topic is before it will soon become an argument thread about the "missing features" of DA2 and how the Witcher series isn't a generic horrible menu mess with a fine layer of misogyny and cliche over it. It's like a less fun version of Godwin's Law.

Modifié par Gavinthelocust, 27 décembre 2010 - 08:15 .

[Cyberfrog81]

In Exile wrote...
Sure, I get that. But would you say that if you're dissapointed in DA2, then you're going to get TW2 because that's the way an RPG should be? That's basically my wtf moment.

My WTF moment comes when not hating on DA2 becomes "you are not a true RPG fan".