74 réponses à ce sujet

[Troizei]

What do you guys think of the parallels? I love the references in the game (superman! for one) and the Andraste lore being reflective of myths/tales existing in our own world seems pretty cool to me, especially considering the presence of the Chantry, TEMPLARS, the knights of a castle running off in search of the 'holy grail' (Arthurian lore! come on!), and those stories of how Andraste was betrayed in the codex =p Ahh I love this game hehe

[marshalleck]

I think the parallel is quite obvious, to be honest.

[Krenmu]

yep..and there are MANY MANY more

[Troizei]

marshalleck: surely! I wasn't questioning that =) just wondering how peeps feel about the references in general, should have probably specified that before i got carried away!

Modifié par k1ck, 13 novembre 2009 - 05:30 .

[Sharpe_116]

hmmm i would disagree, she seems more similiar to joan of arc to be honest. claims to have visions of jesus and god give her orders, besieged the evil british, achem, tevinter empire, was creamated, joan of arc was burned etc etc

[Fudzie]

She sounded more like Mohammed the Prophet to me. Jesus never went on a war to bring the word of god to the heathens, while that particular historical figure did. It's interesting to me, considering how closely the Chantry follows the Catholic church.

EDIT: Actually, it would make sense that Andraste had inspiration from Joan d'Arc, Mohammed, AND Jesus. Enough of the world is an amalgamation of real world people, places, and things, why should the Bride be any different?

Lelianna seemed like the Joan d'Arc expy when I first met her, but... yeah, that parallel fell away some time after I really started chatting it up with her.

Modifié par Fudzie, 13 novembre 2009 - 05:34 .

[BucMan55]

I would need son/daughter of the maker or some kind of being a saviour of all to make that connection. Other than a figurehead apparently right under the maker and some persecution, not a lot in common.

[gelfie]

I thought of Joan of Arc but didn't take it as more than a nod in her general direction.

In answer to the question about religious references in general, I am wholly unhappy with the notion of any real-world religious references in my non real-world computer games.

[marshalleck]

gelfie wrote...

I thought of Joan of Arc but didn't take it as more than a nod in her general direction.
In answer to the question about religious references in general, I am wholly unhappy with the notion of any real-world religious references in my non real-world computer games.

Genuinely curious: why?

Modifié par marshalleck, 13 novembre 2009 - 05:44 .

[Xover]

gelfie wrote...

I thought of Joan of Arc but didn't take it as more than a nod in her general direction.
In answer to the question about religious references in general, I am wholly unhappy with the notion of any real-world religious references in my non real-world computer games.

Why are you unhappy about it.

I am not a religious person, but I love to study religions because it is the best way to find out about people is through there beliefs.  I think games putting in religious references helps bridge a large part of the population of the world to the games content.  Something they can relate too and have a passion for.

[Krenmu]

Whether you like it or not..Religion is bar none the biggest influencing factor on the planet..love it or hate it..its the truth, it would be quite hard to have any form of Religion in a video game without real world references.

[gelfie]

Because this is a fantasy game about a world that is supposed to be separate and different to our own. Real-world religion belongs in the real world where if you wish to know more about it you can seek it out in your own time.

[LaztRezort]

There are parallels to many religions and other mythologies in the game. The Maker/chantry angle, I believe, is there to set the world up as a strong medieval europe type of setting (where, historically, Christianity was a prominent force).

Of course, anthropologists can tell you that here seems to be certain religious themes that persistently occur in disparate groups of humans; so it kind of all makes sense, in a way, that religions of Ferelden wouldn't be too alien from our own.

[gelfie]

Krenmu wrote...

Whether you like it or not..Religion is bar none the biggest influencing factor on the planet..love it or hate it..its the truth, it would be quite hard to have any form of Religion in a video game without real world references.

I disagree: plenty of genuinely creative authors manage to do this if you take the time to look. Of course it's easy - and natural, for a reader (or gamer) well-versed in a particular religion to super-impose their own beliefs upon another's tale.

[Fudzie]

The Chantry itself isn't quite a real-world religion, though it holds many parallels to some of the bigger ones. Even then, it'd be tough to create a fantasy religion that doesn't have any parallel to any real world religion at all, as even the basic tenets of any fake religion will be similar or the same as at least one real-world religion.

Even then, there is the option to ignore, disavow, and/or spite the Chantry in Dragon Age, though you can't get around it as it's a pretty big part of Fereldan society, like the real-world Church was with medieval Europe, which Ferelden is based pretty heavily on.

EDIT: This is ignoring the Ancestral worship practices of the dwarves and the tribal animism/classical polytheism mix of the Dalish Elves.

Modifié par Fudzie, 13 novembre 2009 - 05:59 .

[Lukertin]

I find more Andraste -- Joan of Ark parallels than I do Andraste -- Jesus parallels.

[Warrusu]

gelfie wrote...

Because this is a fantasy game about a world that is supposed to be separate and different to our own. Real-world religion belongs in the real world where if you wish to know more about it you can seek it out in your own time.

That would be true if the world was fully and wholely seperate from influences of the real world, but in this particular setting, it isn't. It uses a lot of real world mythological allusions, and names for that matter. In the real world almost all mythology was influenced by some religion, and as such religion influenced almost all fiction and will continue to, especially in worlds where many real world midieval influences lay as the foundations.

Back on topic though, I don't think so, no. I think Andraste is Andraste, with mixtures of Jesus, Mohammed, Joan of Arc, and several others in her. I specifically see the 'Spirit of Britannia', and the old Briton tribes, in reference to her ways of acting, if one considered the Tevinter Imperium Ancient Rome, and Fereldan and Orlais Gaul (France) and Britannia (Britain), as it seems they culturally seem to have some basises in. I only think this though from the multiple celtic names I've noticed characters within the game having. The Real world queen who inspired 'Britannia' is said to have died leading her own tribe's men into battle after her husband and sons died.

But that's just my two sense. 

[Fudzie]

I admit I know next to nothing about Britannic folklore, would you care to talk specifically about the "Spirit of Britannia"? I am assuming that's a mythic figure.



And yes, yes I am far too lazy to use google or wikipedia. It's often more rewarding to hear someone else share their knowledge directly than look information up in a database.

[rilzic]

Real world religions and their analogues are so common in fantasy that i am bored of it to be honest. I want something more original. Still a good story and i enjoyed it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Fudzie wrote...

She sounded more like Mohammed the Prophet to me. Jesus never went on a war to bring the word of god to the heathens, while that particular historical figure did. It's interesting to me, considering how closely the Chantry follows the Catholic church.

EDIT: Actually, it would make sense that Andraste had inspiration from Joan d'Arc, Mohammed, AND Jesus. Enough of the world is an amalgamation of real world people, places, and things, why should the Bride be any different?

Lelianna seemed like the Joan d'Arc expy when I first met her, but... yeah, that parallel fell away some time after I really started chatting it up with her.

Indeed, you are quite correct. Politically, she seems to be inspired by Prophet Muhammad, who was known to be a very charismatic figure and a capable military leader. In terms of religion however, she is inspired by Christianity the most. Bride of God is like son of God, or mother of God. Concepts that do not exist in Islam (It's actually heresy to appoint partners to God in Islam). Furthermore, "Templar", "Chantry", "Revered mother" sound mostly Christian.
And obviously Joan of D'Arc is an inspiration.

[Cade Darkspear]

I rather enjoy them drawing ideas off of the real world considering the realistic nature of the characters personalities' and world (constant politics, many different religions, etc..).

Also another one, Dumat the Dragon of Silence=Duma the Angel of Silence from Jewish folklore.

[Fudzie]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Fudzie wrote...

She sounded more like Mohammed the Prophet to me. Jesus never went on a war to bring the word of god to the heathens, while that particular historical figure did. It's interesting to me, considering how closely the Chantry follows the Catholic church.

EDIT: Actually, it would make sense that Andraste had inspiration from Joan d'Arc, Mohammed, AND Jesus. Enough of the world is an amalgamation of real world people, places, and things, why should the Bride be any different?

Lelianna seemed like the Joan d'Arc expy when I first met her, but... yeah, that parallel fell away some time after I really started chatting it up with her.

Indeed, you are quite correct. Politically, she seems to be inspired by Prophet Muhammad, who was known to be a very charismatic figure and a capable military leader. In terms of religion however, she is inspired by Christianity the most. Bride of God is like son of God, or mother of God. Concepts that do not exist in Islam (It's actually heresy to appoint partners to God in Islam). Furthermore, "Templar", "Chantry", "Revered mother" sound mostly Christian.
And obviously Joan of D'Arc is an inspiration.

I'd forgotten about that part, my bad.

[Flamin Jesus]

I liked the references, but what I found quite hilarious (I'm vile that way) was that the only direct bible quotes I could recognize didn't come from any chantry member, but from the chantry-hating Morrigan when she tried to scare the prison guards into letting her through in her trademark ironic way (Try the prison scene with Wynne and Morrigan and have Wynne do the talking to see what I mean, it's wonderful).

It's how a character who considers the chantry a murderous, suppressing organization and tries to act like a member begins to sound like a real world 17th century priest when she half copies, half caricaturizes the chantry.

Modifié par Flamin Jesus, 13 novembre 2009 - 06:50 .

[conan.cimmerian99]

I definitely saw the parallel of Andtrastate = Jesus, and maker = God reference in the game. There was even a very interesting theological discussion from Leliana that reminds me of Christian theology.. I think the reference couldn't be more clearer.

[dannythefool]

Of course there are parallels, do you expect them to make up everything from scratch? There are plenty of parallels to other religions too, remember even Morrigan is the name of a goddess in our lore.