172 réponses à ce sujet

[Feraele]

I just want to state here..that not ALL people were unhappy with the unvoiced protagonist in DA:O.. I was quite fine with it, and I do recall others stating the same thing. If Bioware were to return to the unvoiced protagonist..as per the norm PRIOR to Mass Effect, I would be quite pleased. But of course thats not gonna happen as they ..seem to be going with voiced for now and the future. It kind of cuts into my roleplay and immersion...frankly, as I was used to my character not having a voice, that voice ran in my head, not in scripts. But it seems that nothing can be left to the imagination with the current crowd of gamers...roleplay..using your imagination, is no longer in vogue, it must be that everything is done for you;

[slimgrin]

RussianSpy27 wrote...

DA:O is less linear.

In ME 1, the only thing that changes with the whole paragon/renegade is your attitude. You're either a jerk who gets what he wants or a nice guy and with very few exceptions (death of the insect queen for example or an extra party companion) is there anything different in regard to the game world. You still fight off the geth. (oh yea the council in a one decision move at the very end)

In DAO, yes you still fight off the Darkspawn, but you change entire kingdoms, fate of an entire village, races, circle tower, sacred ashes and so on and so forth...your actions impact the world in NUMEROUS ways, as reflected by numerous finalles you can potentially have (not to mention the fate/rulers of Ferelden as it's the second main storyline).

I have to agree with this. DA:O had many surprises in store for me: kill the guard, or let the desire demon have him and leave unharmed; fight Loghain's right-hand officer, or get locked up in jail with nothing but your undies. ME2 just didn't have the same level of interactivity.

Bioware in general does make linear rpg's, but I thought DA:O offered more choices, more paths to explore. 

Modifié par slimgrin, 26 décembre 2010 - 09:25 .

[upsettingshorts]

Feraele wrote...
the current crowd of gamers...roleplay..using your imagination, is no longer in vogue, it must be that everything is done for you;

This is really the only position on the issue I find at worst insulting, at best it's simply ignorant.  Of course, no-one could possibly prefer a voiced protagonist unless they were part of some vague "current crowd" who don't understand one approach - of several - to "roleplaying" and need things "done for them."

I just get really sick of reading it.  It's like it's pasted from the same source or something.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 décembre 2010 - 09:30 .

[Maria Caliban]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Feraele wrote...
the current crowd of gamers...roleplay..using your imagination, is no longer in vogue, it must be that everything is done for you;

This is really the only position on the issue I find insulting.  Of course, no-one could possibly prefer a voiced protagonist unless they were part of some vague "current crowd" who don't understand one approach - of several - to "roleplaying" and need things "done for them."

You're probably one of those mouth breathers who goes to the symphony and listens to music instead of just reading the sheet notes and hearing the instruments in your head.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 26 décembre 2010 - 09:33 .

[Addai]

Piecake wrote...

Well, Shepard wasnt a terribly interesting character, more like your stock hero/soldier/leader type(still found him better than the warden since I could view him as an actual person, not just an avatar).  I found his companions in ME2 a lot more interesting (also disagree with you on character interaction being superficial) 

Seriously?!  I had more conversation with Alistair before Lothering than with ME2 companions the whole game.  And the "romances" consisted of "hey, we're probably gonna die on this big mission, wanna boink first?"  I trust the DA writers to be a little more nuanced, but if they're trying to appeal to the same shooter/ action crowd, they may not have a free hand.

[Cutlasskiwi]

Feraele wrote...

I just want to state here..that not ALL people were unhappy with the unvoiced protagonist in DA:O.. I was quite fine with it, and I do recall others stating the same thing. If Bioware were to return to the unvoiced protagonist..as per the norm PRIOR to Mass Effect, I would be quite pleased. But of course thats not gonna happen as they ..seem to be going with voiced for now and the future. It kind of cuts into my roleplay and immersion...frankly, as I was used to my character not having a voice, that voice ran in my head, not in scripts. But it seems that nothing can be left to the imagination with the current crowd of gamers...roleplay..using your imagination, is no longer in vogue, it must be that everything is done for you;

That's quite the overreaction in my opinion. What do you mean by the current crowd of gamers? Are we not all part of the current crowd of gamers? Or do you mean new to games or the genre? 

I have played most of BioWares games and liked them for different reasons. I think it's refreshing that they are changing it up every once in a while instead of sticking to just one thing. 

[In Exile]

Addai67 wrote...
Seriously?!  I had more conversation with Alistair before Lothering than with ME2 companions the whole game.  And the "romances" consisted of "hey, we're probably gonna die on this big mission, wanna boink first?"  I trust the DA writers to be a little more nuanced, but if they're trying to appeal to the same shooter/ action crowd, they may not have a free hand.

DA:O had more companion content than ME, but it's unfair to talk about when you had the conversations because the DA:O ones are not triggered based on progression. You can exhaust both Alistair and Morrigain's conversation trees before Lothering.

The romances in ME2 suffer from the same problem - they trigger based on where you are in the game so they have the culmination tied to the plot instead of randomly like in DA:O.

The problem comes from trying to space out the content.

[upsettingshorts]

Alistair is integrated into the story in a way no ME1-2 character can really match. But compared to others like Sten or Zevran, a ME2 character matches up well because in addition to the conversations on the Normandy they have their own recruitment and loyalty quests which add to the relationship because - let's say in the case of Jack's - you are given the opportunity to interact with them in an emotionally charged location.

Edit: Plus In Exile's point.  They're not really 1:1 comparisons, and the relationships, LIs included aren't any "shallower" than DAO's.  With one obvious exception (Morrigan).  Though Liara is important in her own way as well.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 décembre 2010 - 09:59 .

[Addai]

@InExile and Angrypants:

What??  You don't consider talking with Alistair about Goldanna or Sten about Asala an emotionally charged situation?  There are events- and location-triggered interaction as well.  Redcliffe for Alistair, Denerim Landsmeet for Alistair and Zevran, etc.

The romances still have barely any content to them at all compared to DAO.  You can exhaust all there is and there still isn't much.

I don't expect DA2 to be that paltry, but my guess is that it will be in between DAO and ME2.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 décembre 2010 - 10:04 .

[TMZuk]

OP's post is an amusing read indeed. Thanks for posting.



Anyway, while I find all the origins different in DA:O, and just love the subtle differences in the playthroughs, Shepard is always the same, no matter what class you pick. A curse on voiced protagonists!

[Nighteye2]

Some people may have complained, but there are also a lot of people who prefer a silent protagonist. Enough that it's very well feasible to make more games with silent protagonists. Especially if those games have more dialogue because of the lack of VO.

[upsettingshorts]

Addai67 wrote...

@InExile and Angrypants:

What??  You don't consider talking with Alistair about Goldanna or Sten about Asala an emotionally charged situation? 

I specifically excluded Alistair as being unique to DAO.  And Sten?  Not really.  Don't get me wrong, I liked that quest and liked Sten a lot.  But that was a sidequest.  The companion quests in ME2 were the A-plot of the game.

Addai67 wrote...

The romances still have barely any content to them at all compared to DAO.  You can exhaust all there is and there still isn't much.

Which is why in my first reply to you I said that it might involve less content, but the idea that one is more superficial than the other didn't ring true for me.  But I suppose that's subjective.  To be honest I wish at least one of the relationships in ME2 was more superficial as it would have been more believable for me (Miranda).

Nighteye2 wrote...

Some people may have complained, but
there are also a lot of people who prefer a silent protagonist. Enough that it's very well feasible to make more games with silent protagonists. Especially if those games have more dialogue because of the lack of VO.

There are pros and cons for both approaches.  Personally I'll never favor a silent protagonist unless every other character is equally mute (like say, Baldur's Gate).  Though given that I'd still prefer fully voiced to fully text.  But I definitely prefer both to a silent protagonist by him or herself.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 décembre 2010 - 10:10 .

[Brockololly]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Edit: Plus In Exile's point.  They're not really 1:1 comparisons, and the relationships, LIs included aren't any "shallower" than DAO's.  With one obvious exception (Morrigan).  Though Liara is important in her own way as well.

Subjective to be sure, but you'd have to add Alistair in there alongside Morrigan as being a more plot-centric LI what with potentially being King and all. I just found the  ME  "relationships" horribly shallow and game-y where you just  pick blue a couple times then be treated to epic End of the World sex scene and "Achievement Unlocked." Thrilling stuff. Truly.

[upsettingshorts]

Alistair and Morrigan are more important to DA:Os story than any Mass Effect character has ever been, with the potential exception of Liara - but that would depend quite a bit on her involvement in ME3.

Though obviously the player has the freedom to sideline any of them for huge parts of the game.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 décembre 2010 - 10:12 .

[Addai]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

@InExile and Angrypants:

What??  You don't consider talking with Alistair about Goldanna or Sten about Asala an emotionally charged situation? 

I specifically excluded Alistair as being unique to DAO.  And Sten?  Not really.  Don't get me wrong, I liked that quest and liked Sten a lot.  But that was a sidequest.  The companion quests in ME2 were the A-plot of the game.

Ok, but you then had a combination of integrated companion interaction and more "side quest" interactions like Sten, Leliana, Oghren etc.  All in all, it's more.  A lot more.  Not sure how you can call the loyalty quests in ME2 A-plot.  Very few had at all to do with the Collectors.

I don't want to dis ME2 too much.  My femShep romanced Garrus and for what it was, it was very sweet.  I also was pleasantly surprised by liking Jack, Mordin and Miranda more than I expected to.  Nevertheless the resemblance to Awakening and comparisons between DA2 and ME2 confirm what I already was gleaning, that we are going to get a lot less game in DA2.

[lv12medic]

I think I am going to stick with buying one copy of DA2.  I'm now guilty of owning two copies of DA:O though, ended up getting a copy of Ultimate Edition for Christmas.  But I'll pressure and bully[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]  suggest nicely :innocent: to my Friends to get a copy.

[upsettingshorts]

Addai67 wrote...

Not sure how you can call the loyalty quests in ME2 A-plot.  Very few had at all to do with the Collectors.

Easy.   The Collectors are a MacGuffin.  ME2 is about the Collectors in the same way The Maltese Falcon is about a small statue.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 décembre 2010 - 10:16 .

[Snoteye]

Addai67 wrote...

Not sure how you can call the loyalty quests in ME2 A-plot. Very few had at all to do with the Collectors.

The collectors were more of a meta-plot in ME2. Without them there would be no incentive to play ME3, but ME2 really doesn't revolve around them at all.

[Cyberfrog81]

Heh, Goldanna. What a ridiculous "quest".

Say what you like about ME2 romances, at least with the loyalty quests you have to work a bit to have your shot at romance... as opposed to showering your intended with gifts and telling them what they want to hear.

No, frankly... The DAO way isn't inherently better or worse, just different. But that's just IMHO.

[Mike2640]

Yeah I think not buying DA2 would be the better way to get back to more Origins style DA, would it not? In the OP David Gaider is quoted in saying they'll go back to the drawing board if this game does not do well. That makes way more sense to me.

I'm still undecided about whether i'll get it or not. VO and the crappiness that was Witch Hunt has put me on the fence when it comes to the DA team.

Also i'm gonna have to agree with Addai when it comes to companion interaction. The DAO companions felt much more fleshed out than the ME2 ones. The loyalty missions were helpful but for the most part all they did was give some background information. The characters never actually "developed" in ME2 (With the exception of Jack if you romance her and maybe Miranda). You learn their histories, they clam up, and character growth ceases. They become static, only there to fill up spaces on the squad.

Admittedly this was also the same in Dragon Age, but the fact that there were many more conversations that, if spaced out properly, made everything feel much more organic, and they still managed to change and rediscover themselves, if you let them (Such as Morrigan becoming a much warmer person, or Leliana embracing her killer instinct).

Modifié par Mike2640, 26 décembre 2010 - 10:19 .

[RussianSpy27]

There has been so much talk of how DA2 is borrowing from ME and is losing its original form that I thought it would be interesting for people to read respective reviews of the largest Russian game site - AbsoluteGames.ru - just for fun as one perspective - the reviewers are obviously not "gods" and I don't necessarily agree with everything they said myself. I looked over Google's translation and while it missed some humor and clarity, it does a descent job. I started translating the reviews myself, but it may take a bit more time.

Mass Efffect - score - 79% - http://www.ag.ru/reviews/mass_effect
Dragon Age - score - 92% - http://www.ag.ru/rev...gon_age_origins

Google Translator - http://translate.google.com/#

I welcome questions to clarify translations.

Modifié par RussianSpy27, 26 décembre 2010 - 10:32 .

[upsettingshorts]

Metacritic would be better, if you're citing critical opinion.



However if you're just trying to draw attention to a review whose takes on both games you endorse or appreciate, that's fine.

[Piecake]

Why did you link the review of ME1 when you are talking about ME2?

[RussianSpy27]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Metacritic would be better, if you're citing critical opinion.

However if you're just trying to draw attention to a review whose takes on both games you endorse or appreciate, that's fine.

Yes, the latter....as I say in the paragpraph before the citations

Modifié par RussianSpy27, 26 décembre 2010 - 10:33 .

[RussianSpy27]

Piecake wrote...

Why did you link the review of ME1 when you are talking about ME2?

My mistake...changed to ME1...their ME2 got an even worse mark.