172 réponses à ce sujet

[silentassassin264]

You know you could just give Bioware a giant donation so they could hire 12 voice actors. I am pretty sure they would appreciate it.

[Ansa]

Basically we discussing "plz Bioware, get Jennifer Hale to voice that female Hawke, or there gona be blood", etc

Yeah yeah I'm a fan

But really, Jennifer's VO simply illuminates any kind of stiff characters introduced by Bioware with each passing year

[RussianSpy27]

silentassassin264 wrote...

You know you could just give Bioware a giant donation so they could hire 12 voice actors. I am pretty sure they would appreciate it.

Hey I'm not exactly a Russian mob boss to have that much $, but if I were one, I'd buy 10,000 copies of DA2 and give em out to kids in foster homes/hospitals as charity. 

[Jzadek72]

Addai67 wrote...

 You have very little interaction with the squad members.

Yes, only an ENTIRE MISSION devoted to each one.

[ladydesire]

Jzadek72 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

 You have very little interaction with the squad members.

Yes, only an ENTIRE MISSION devoted to each one.

Yes, but that's really the only interaction you have with them; in DAO, you can talk to your companions at any time.

[upsettingshorts]

ladydesire wrote...

Yes, but that's really the only interaction you have with them

I must have imagined all those chats on the Normandy.

ladydesire wrote...

in DAO, you can talk to your companions at any time.

Like In Exile said, in DAO you can exhaust the conversations at any time because there are only a few plot flags that trigger new dialogue - like Flemeth's Grimoire, Goldanna, Marjolaine... in Mass Effect 1-2 you have to advance the plot and then you get the next bit of conversation.  So interaction with companions is more staggered.

Sure, there's less overall on account of it being a shorter game - but it's not dramatically less, and the nature of the relationships aren't necessarily superficial as a result.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 décembre 2010 - 12:14 .

[In Exile]

Addai67 wrote...

@InExile and Angrypants:

What??  You don't consider talking with Alistair about Goldanna or Sten about Asala an emotionally charged situation?  There are events- and location-triggered interaction as well.  Redcliffe for Alistair, Denerim Landsmeet for Alistair and Zevran, etc.

I'm confused. I didn't say DA:O lacked for emotionally charged moments, or even that it had more companion content than ME. Just that we can't hold the pacing of the content as proof of it, because ME is built differently.

The romances still have barely any content to them at all compared to DAO.  You can exhaust all there is and there still isn't much.

I don't think the difference is dramatic. In ME2, you had 2 distinct romance conversations + the encounter. This is about as many ''major'' romance moments you had in DA:O as well.

The reason why ME2 fails on the romance angle compared to DA:O is all the 'little' romance moments you have. A good example is Alistair & Goldanna, where a female PC gets to say the ''I care about you line''. ME1/2 just has no comparable situation.

[In Exile]

Brockololly wrote...
Subjective to be sure, but you'd have to add Alistair in there alongside Morrigan as being a more plot-centric LI what with potentially being King and all. I just found the  ME  "relationships" horribly shallow and game-y where you just  pick blue a couple times then be treated to epic End of the World sex scene and "Achievement Unlocked." Thrilling stuff. Truly.

The DA:O romances are the same. Just pick the one with care or love until your achievement. Then you can even repeat!

It isn't the complexity of the conversaton that made DA:O romances better because you really had a dead-end sex track with Morrigain or Zevran and then True Wuv Forever. It is how you could say such things that made DA:O deeper.

[Altima Darkspells]

RussianSpy27 wrote...

Conclusion:

1. Legitimate financial concerns prevented DA:O to have a voiced Warden (hence the FAQ's "significantly limit" line      - because of resources, not that it's impossible for VO to theoretically imitate, if afforded)...
2. ME, first of its kind, had fewer dialogue options than the Warden
3. Hence, A compromise was made for more player/dialogue options
4. DA2 is improving in this regard and Hawke will not have fewer options
5. Future Origins with silent PC very unlikely. 
6. Same quality for 12 actors in a potential Origins would cost much more, but has not been ruled out as possible.
7. Hence, BioWare needs to accumulate as much $ as possible to invest in a 12 voiced PC future title.
8. Therefore, let's mass order DA2

1. Yes, and all the funds not sent into VA turned DAO into a 50+ hour game.  ME1/2 tops out--if you do EVERYTHING--at maybe 30 hours.  BioWare has stated many other options of theirs that they wished to do in DA2, but funding was too strict to pursue.

2. ME2, the second of its kind, had fewer dialogue options than the warden.

4. Hawke will have fewer dialogue options.  The wheel o' choices is happily set up for the vast majority of choices to be made with three different wedges--nice®, douche, and neutral.

Because of ME's paragon/renegade system, each choice gave a bit of an impact in the form of those points.  DA2 (hopefully) doesn't have a morality system.  So the extra 'pointless' options that give the same result will not really affect DA2 in any real way.

5. DA2 was in development before Awakening shipped (supposedly).  Likely, DA2 was in development before Origins was released when they realized how bad the engine would perform on consoles.  With all the changes made--and the seeming floundering back and forth--it seems that DAO doing so well was a complete surprise.

As said, if DA2 tanks, BioWare would have to re-examine the chages made.

6. Yeah, well, BioWare is doing the whole 12+ VA thing--for TOR.  Which drove the budget upwards of 100 million dollars (according to rumor--BioWare has stated that it was a significant price difference needed to be made at the high corporate level).  The thing is, EA will never, ever clear a single player game for such a cost.  Heck, the only reason they're doing it for TOR is that no genre can be milked like the MMO.

7 & 8: Flawed logic.  BioWare doesn't get the money from sales-- EA does.  Since they own BioWare, they're the ones who decide on what BioWare works on and how much they get for it.

If anything, if you want more DAO style gameplay, you should logically buy more DAO.  If DA2 sells two million copies, that's an awesome number.  however, compared to DAO's 3.2 million copies sold...

[Brockololly]

In Exile wrote...
It isn't the complexity of the conversaton that made DA:O romances better because you really had a dead-end sex track with Morrigain or Zevran and then True Wuv Forever. It is how you could say such things that made DA:O deeper.

Eh, with Morrigan anyway its a complete misnomer to have the "romance" achievement tied to having sex with her, as thats really only the start of the actual romantic entanglement. You can very easily screw up the full "romance" with Morrigan after you've had sex with her. While with ME1 and ME2, you hit the sex scene and thats literally all there is to those relationships (outside of Shadow Broker with Liara potentially).

[errant_knight]

Dead end sex track? Zevran? You clearly didn't finish that romance. Oh, wait, I take your meaning. I don't understand why that makes the romance unmeaningful, but I guess I understand your use of words.

Modifié par errant_knight, 27 décembre 2010 - 01:18 .

[Nighteye2]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...
Some people may have complained, but
there are also a lot of people who prefer a silent protagonist. Enough that it's very well feasible to make more games with silent protagonists. Especially if those games have more dialogue because of the lack of VO.

There are pros and cons for both approaches.  Personally I'll never favor a silent protagonist unless every other character is equally mute (like say, Baldur's Gate).  Though given that I'd still prefer fully voiced to fully text.  But I definitely prefer both to a silent protagonist by him or herself.

Yes, as I said, there are people in both camps. Some people, like you, prefer to sacrifice dialogue and dialogue options to get VO, while other people, like me, prefer to sacrifice VO to get more dialogue, more dialogue options and more player agency.

Both camps exists, and both are sizeable, unlike what the OP implies.

[In Exile]

errant_knight wrote...

Dead end sex track? Zevran? You clearly didn't finish that romance. Oh, wait, I take your meaning. I don't understand why that makes the romance unmeaningful, but I guess I understand your use of words.

I didn't say that. What I said was that the romance has no depth - it's either sex friend, or you being in love with each other. That's not a deep romance.

Brockololly wrote...
Eh, with Morrigan anyway its a complete
misnomer to have the "romance" achievement tied to having sex with her,
as thats really only the start of the actual romantic entanglement. You
can very easily screw up the full "romance" with Morrigan after you've
had sex with her. While with ME1 and ME2, you hit the sex scene and
thats literally all there is to those relationships (outside of Shadow
Broker with Liara potentially).

See, this is the problem. 'Full' romance suggests that if you don't end in True Wuv forever, you're missing content. But that doesn't have to be the endgame. This is what I mean by there really being two tracks for two of the characters, and 1 for the rest. The game just stops if you don't go further with the ''love'' angle. There is no alternative.

Personally, I prefer Mass Effect's we like each other, we're attracted, and then we had sex. I just do not find these rapid declarations of love at all realistic.

Modifié par In Exile, 27 décembre 2010 - 02:06 .

[Ryzaki]

...I just finished playing DAO and ME2 and the character interaction and choice blows ME2 out of the water. With ease.

ME2 I have no damn conversations with someone unless I'm boning them. (Especially with Garrus' calibrations >_> ) Thane and Samara (and Mordin) are the only characters I remember having substantial conversations with. (As in getting to know them beyond "You should know X so you're not completely confused during my loyalty mission").

Also: ME has love just not being said a lot of the time.

Kaidan's: "I loved you." on Horizon and Liara's apparent obsession "I couldn't let you go!" *shudders* 

I prefer DAO because at least it looked like they had a reason to act that way. 

That said it might be personal preference. I hated the fact that I had about 3 convos with Tali that weren't loyalty mission related before I got friendzoned and she started permantely cleaning the engines (same with Garrus).

Also their loyalty missions are pretty equal with the DAO's companions missions. (It helps that they had more than one mission is certain cases (Wynne, Morrigan, Oghren, Alistair) come to mind.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 27 décembre 2010 - 03:14 .

[upsettingshorts]

I'm one of the biggest ME2 fans on the planet and even I hate the friendzoning with a passion. It's one of my two biggest issues with the game (the other one I bring up all the time).

That being said, I like Liara's story especially in the case of a romance imported from ME1 (male or female Shepard) and advanced through LOTSB.

But generally speaking, I viewed it as something that has potential for improvement and the way the dialogue wheel is going to work in DA2 actually addresses that other big issue really well, so I'm looking forward to it.  By no means was ME2 perfect, but I do like where it's going.  Don't expect everyone will though, hence threads like these.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 décembre 2010 - 03:22 .

[PsychoBlonde]

ladydesire wrote...

I don't think it's ever been about number of lines of dialog, despite what some people might say or interpret what the developers are saying; I think the cost factor ties into the length of the game itself when voiced PC is factored in.

Not to mention that voice files are large and there's only so much data you can fit onto a single DvD disc.  IIRC ME was the way it was in part because they were RIGHT AT that limit and some things they wanted to include had to be cut just to make room.  And if you exceed 1 disk, you start running into the dreaded disk-switching issue or running into enormous amounts of disk space.

I'm sure, if they could, they would be more than happy to provide everyone with a myriad of options, but the hard truth is that there will always be physical limitations.

Personally, I'd like games to ditch the attempts at cheesy photorealism in favor of better animations, bigger areas with more stuff in them, etc.

[PsychoBlonde]

In Exile wrote...

Personally, I prefer Mass Effect's we like each other, we're attracted, and then we had sex. I just do not find these rapid declarations of love at all realistic.

Well, not for anyone older than about 17 anyway.

[In Exile]

[quote]Ryzaki wrote...
Also: ME has love just not being said a lot of the time.

Kaidan's: "I loved you." on Horizon and Liara's apparent obsession "I couldn't let you go!" *shudders* [/quote]

That's across two games, though. I'm willing to buy that, since arguably you have been toghether for 6 months beyond what chance you had to develop to develop a friendship to sex in ME1. It falls on the whirlwind romance side,

Most importantly, it's true off-screen content with a measurable timeline instead of the potentially confused shift you can get in DA:O.

Tali has a reason too. A creepy one, but a reason.

[quote]
That said it might be personal preference. I hated the fact that I had about 3 convos with Tali that weren't loyalty mission related before I got friendzoned and she started permantely cleaning the engines (same with Garrus).  [/quote]

I completely agree. I'm pretty sure the Normandy has the best calibriated guns this side of the Citadel.

Also their loyalty missions are pretty equal with the DAO's companions missions. (It helps that they had more than one mission is certain cases (Wynne, Morrigan, Oghren, Alistair) come to mind.
[/quote]

I thought the ME2 missions were far superior to anything that DA:O had to offer. Full words, independent plot-line.

[upsettingshorts]

In Exile wrote...

Tali has a reason too. A creepy one, but a reason.

Struck me as juvenile, not really creepy.  Taking her up on it, now that seems creepy.  But who am I to judge the Talimancers? 

In Exile wrote...

I completely agree. I'm pretty sure the Normandy has the best calibriated guns this side of the Citadel.

I want to know what kept throwing them out of calibration.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 décembre 2010 - 03:55 .

[Ryzaki]

In Exile wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Also: ME has love just not being said a lot of the time.

Kaidan's: "I loved you." on Horizon and Liara's apparent obsession "I couldn't let you go!" *shudders*

That's across two games, though. I'm willing to buy that, since arguably you have been toghether for 6 months beyond what chance you had to develop to develop a friendship to sex in ME1. It falls on the whirlwind romance side,

Most importantly, it's true off-screen content with a measurable timeline instead of the potentially confused shift you can get in DA:O.

Tali has a reason too. A creepy one, but a reason. 

My problem with the ME romance is...you die. They should have somewhat moved on yet...they don't. (Liara) It's creepy and just...ick. Kaidan is another mess and I'm not going into how wallbang worthy the Horizon scene was. Suffice to say I'll chalk it up to personal preference.

I completely agree. I'm pretty sure the Normandy has the best calibriated guns this side of the Citadel.


I thought the ME2 missions were far superior to anything that DA:O had to offer. Full words, independent plot-line.

LOL

Nope. To me that was a huge flaw. It had a sense of disconnection that made it pretty meh to me. Not to mention I didn't like most of the loyalty mission plots. Only one I actually enjoyed was Tali's and that was because we actually had a trial.

[Mike2640]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Personally, I prefer Mass Effect's we like each other, we're attracted, and then we had sex. I just do not find these rapid declarations of love at all realistic.

Well, not for anyone older than about 17 anyway.

Well I don't think it's as "rapid" as it seems. It appears to us to only take a minute or two to get from the Frostpeaks to Denerim, but considering these guys are walking from one end of the country to the other, it makes sense to assume that they spent a long time on the journey.

I always figured it took them about a year to get to the final battle. Taking that into consideration, coupled with the frequent near-death situations, it makes sense that they'd be more less hesitant in expressing their feelings, since they very well could be dead the next day.

[RussianSpy27]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

RussianSpy27 wrote...

Conclusion:

1. Legitimate financial concerns prevented DA:O to have a voiced Warden (hence the FAQ's "significantly limit" line      - because of resources, not that it's impossible for VO to theoretically imitate, if afforded)...
2. ME, first of its kind, had fewer dialogue options than the Warden
3. Hence, A compromise was made for more player/dialogue options
4. DA2 is improving in this regard and Hawke will not have fewer options
5. Future Origins with silent PC very unlikely. 
6. Same quality for 12 actors in a potential Origins would cost much more, but has not been ruled out as possible.
7. Hence, BioWare needs to accumulate as much $ as possible to invest in a 12 voiced PC future title.
8. Therefore, let's mass order DA2

1. Yes, and all the funds not sent into VA turned DAO into a 50+ hour game.  ME1/2 tops out--if you do EVERYTHING--at maybe 30 hours.  BioWare has stated many other options of theirs that they wished to do in DA2, but funding was too strict to pursue.

2. ME2, the second of its kind, had fewer dialogue options than the warden.

4. Hawke will have fewer dialogue options.  The wheel o' choices is happily set up for the vast majority of choices to be made with three different wedges--nice®, douche, and neutral.

Because of ME's paragon/renegade system, each choice gave a bit of an impact in the form of those points.  DA2 (hopefully) doesn't have a morality system.  So the extra 'pointless' options that give the same result will not really affect DA2 in any real way.

5. DA2 was in development before Awakening shipped (supposedly).  Likely, DA2 was in development before Origins was released when they realized how bad the engine would perform on consoles.  With all the changes made--and the seeming floundering back and forth--it seems that DAO doing so well was a complete surprise.

As said, if DA2 tanks, BioWare would have to re-examine the chages made.

6. Yeah, well, BioWare is doing the whole 12+ VA thing--for TOR.  Which drove the budget upwards of 100 million dollars (according to rumor--BioWare has stated that it was a significant price difference needed to be made at the high corporate level).  The thing is, EA will never, ever clear a single player game for such a cost.  Heck, the only reason they're doing it for TOR is that no genre can be milked like the MMO.

7 & 8: Flawed logic.  BioWare doesn't get the money from sales-- EA does.  Since they own BioWare, they're the ones who decide on what BioWare works on and how much they get for it.

If anything, if you want more DAO style gameplay, you should logically buy more DAO.  If DA2 sells two million copies, that's an awesome number.  however, compared to DAO's 3.2 million copies sold...

So would you suggest that in order to future DA:O-like titles to come, we should NOT buy DA2, get its sales ot be super low, so that once the new style doesn't work, EA realizes that DA genre needs to be in the DAO's silent PC/50 hour gameplay style?

Wouldn't it have them screw the department all together in anger and send Mr. Gaider to write Starwars lore for TOR?

[Chris Priestly]

Anyone making a contribution of 1 Million+ dollars to my Cayman Island Bank account will be promised that I will personally ask Mark Darrah to increase VO*.



* does not include promise that Mark will either listen or consider such suggestion. No guarentee of action or result either.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Anyone making a contribution of 1 Million+ dollars to my Cayman Island Bank account will be promised that I will personally ask Mark Darrah to increase VO*.



* does not include promise that Mark will either listen or consider such suggestion. No guarentee of action or result either.

You're going for cheap.

[bcooper56]

Im not buying it just to show how wrong the derection is. I only fear it wont matter all me2 fans will eat this up now that they have 2 titles so alike.