172 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

Good thing Mr. Priestly didn't specify which dollar. Z$1 Million dollars, as promised!

Oh, and I'd like to request 2-3x the standard number of tactics slots as youre planning. That's all.

[Altima Darkspells]

RussianSpy27 wrote...


So would you suggest that in order to future DA:O-like titles to come, we should NOT buy DA2, get its sales ot be super low, so that once the new style doesn't work, EA realizes that DA genre needs to be in the DAO's silent PC/50 hour gameplay style?

Wouldn't it have them screw the department all together in anger and send Mr. Gaider to write Starwars lore for TOR?

I suggest we form our own opinions of DA2 while not factoring any nostalgia for DAO.  If it's a poor, rushed, bug-ridden game, people should be informed of that.  Regardless of marketing, with its massive budget, will say, I still believe that the best way to sell video games is word of mouth.

So if EA expects us to eat another steaming pile just because they've slapped a pretty name on it, their customers should say something back in the only form a greedy, in-it-for-the-money corporation can understand--with low sales and returns.

As for the second part, if EA--which has invested quite a bit the past few years in trying to grow their own IPs--if willing to shut down the DA portion of BioWare because of lower than expected sales (and I'll remind you, many studios would sell their very souls to ship two million copies) due to poor quality--based, in part, on the very actions of EA itself--then it's likely that the DA franchise wouldn't last very long anyway.

After all, if DA2 does well, we all know that EA is going to congratulate themselves, chock the success up to the lowered gameplay, voiced PC, more 'actiony' and 'sex' style, and continue to pump out sub-par DLC and rushed sequels for as often as they can.

[RussianSpy27]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

RussianSpy27 wrote...


So would you suggest that in order to future DA:O-like titles to come, we should NOT buy DA2, get its sales ot be super low, so that once the new style doesn't work, EA realizes that DA genre needs to be in the DAO's silent PC/50 hour gameplay style?

Wouldn't it have them screw the department all together in anger and send Mr. Gaider to write Starwars lore for TOR?

I suggest we form our own opinions of DA2 while not factoring any nostalgia for DAO.  If it's a poor, rushed, bug-ridden game, people should be informed of that.  Regardless of marketing, with its massive budget, will say, I still believe that the best way to sell video games is word of mouth.

So if EA expects us to eat another steaming pile just because they've slapped a pretty name on it, their customers should say something back in the only form a greedy, in-it-for-the-money corporation can understand--with low sales and returns.

As for the second part, if EA--which has invested quite a bit the past few years in trying to grow their own IPs--if willing to shut down the DA portion of BioWare because of lower than expected sales (and I'll remind you, many studios would sell their very souls to ship two million copies) due to poor quality--based, in part, on the very actions of EA itself--then it's likely that the DA franchise wouldn't last very long anyway.

After all, if DA2 does well, we all know that EA is going to congratulate themselves, chock the success up to the lowered gameplay, voiced PC, more 'actiony' and 'sex' style, and continue to pump out sub-par DLC and rushed sequels for as often as they can.

What you say does make sense... 
Also, DA:O's actions had enormous impact on the world after every major mission, while in ME, you were doing the same thing, just either as a jerk or a nice dude. If DA2 is more like ME in that sense, it'll be very disappointing. 

[upsettingshorts]

RussianSpy27 wrote...

Also, DA:O's actions had enormous impact on the world after every major mission

...what? Oh, you mean stuff like what happens with the werewolves.  I got it.

RussianSpy27 wrote...

while in ME, you were doing the same thing, just either as a jerk or a nice dude.

Right, but the nice dude made sure Feros remained a viable colony.  The jerk shut it down through his rampage.  Then there's the fate of you know - galactic politics.  But that's basically the same as who is King of Ferelden I suppose.

RussianSpy27 wrote...

If DA2 is more like ME in that sense, it'll be very disappointing.

It won't.  DA2 isn't forcing the player into a false dichotomy. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 27 décembre 2010 - 04:56 .

[PrinceOfFallout13]

if the game doesnt sell they wont make another game and besides i hate silent Pc's this aint the 90's man

it will get more sales and be more aclaimed ala mass effect 2 so haters can keep on hating

(this just reminded me of the whole star wars old trilogy vs new trilogy thing)

Modifié par PrinceOfFallout13, 27 décembre 2010 - 05:21 .

[RussianSpy27]

What's your point Prince? I am not a hater; I'm excited about DA2...I am also a huge fan of the Origins, its length and multiple PC stories and this post is a complilation of official quotes as to whether we may or may not expect such a style in the future, given how expensive VO is.



What's your point about SW? Prequels SUCKED

[Mike2640]

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

if the game doesnt sell they wont make another game and besides i hate silent Pc's this aint the 90's man

it will get more sales and be more aclaimed ala mass effect 2 so haters can keep on hating

(this just reminded me of the whole star wars old trilogy vs new trilogy thing)

Never underestimate a company's ability to milk a franchise. Tomb Raider hasn't been good for years, but they're still shelling those out.

As for the rest of your post, well that's just your opinion coupled with a guess (Which will likely be accurate, unfortunately), so there's not much to work with.

Finally i'd like to think that these debates are a bit less stupid than Old vs. New trilogy, but they both really do seem to come down to a matter of preference.

[wwwwowwww]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Anyone making a contribution of 1 Million+ dollars to my Cayman Island Bank account will be promised that I will personally ask Mark Darrah to increase VO*.



* does not include promise that Mark will either listen or consider such suggestion. No guarentee of action or result either.

Account number and pw? 

[In Exile]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Struck me as juvenile, not really creepy.  Taking her up on it, now that seems creepy.  But who am I to judge the Talimancers? 

Isn't Tali like 24? Her worship of Shepard, that makes me uncomfortable. Reciprocating is... well, I'd rather not think about it, personally.

I want to know what kept throwing them out of calibration.

EDI is screwing with us all. Chained AI? Might not be able to do more than poke fun at Joker most of the time, but uptight Turian who may well have OCD?

EDI is 100% screwing with Garrus. Joker knew what he was saying when he plugged in the overlord.

Ryzaki wrote...

My problem with the ME romance is...you
die. They should have somewhat moved on yet...they don't. (Liara) It's
creepy and just...ick. Kaidan is another mess and I'm not going into how
wallbang worthy the Horizon scene was. Suffice to say I'll chalk it up
to personal preference.

Well, Liara apparently gets approached very soon after Shepard dies with the offer of the Lazarus project. She is the one who recovers Shepard's body. And in LoSB, she's the one who is reluctant to re-start anything with Shepard. I actually think Liara was very well written as a reluctant, I don't want to get back into this romance.

Kaiden and Ashley are just confusing. I mean, they mutinied over with you once. That was just an ad hoc justification to keep them out of the party. Nothing more or less.

Ryzaki wrote...
LOL

Nope. To me that was a huge flaw.
It had a sense of disconnection that made it pretty meh to me. Not to
mention I didn't like most of the loyalty mission plots. Only one
I actually enjoyed was Tali's and that was because we actually had a
trial.

I thought they were all very good - they were completely focused on some personal tribulation of the characters. They were great vignettes.

I thought the DA:O ones were pretty plain and uninteresting, aside from Morrigain. Just a matter of taste, I suppose.

Mike2640 wrote...

Well I don't think it's as "rapid" as it
seems. It appears to us to only take a minute or two to get from the
Frostpeaks to Denerim, but considering these guys are walking
from one end of the country to the other, it makes sense to assume that
they spent a long time on the journey.

But there's absolutely no sense that time passes. I mean, you could as easily imagine the whole thing took 8 years as you could that it took 3 months.

My default is to assume little time passes unless the story tells me time has passed.

Mike2640 wrote...

I always figured it took them about a
year to get to the final battle. Taking that into consideration, coupled
with the frequent near-death situations, it makes sense that they'd be
more less hesitant in expressing their feelings, since they very well
could be dead the next day.

Lore-wise, it actually takes 2. But nothing in the game tells you that. Nothing gives you absolutely any indication that anything happens.

And actually, it being drawn out makes even less sense, because with Leliana/Alistair basically flips a switch at 90 approval. Morrigain and Zevran, IMO, are the only romances that really work well with the timer.

[AlanC9]

In Exile wrote...

But there's absolutely no sense that time passes. I mean, you could as easily imagine the whole thing took 8 years as you could that it took 3 months.

My default is to assume little time passes unless the story tells me time has passed.

One big problem with lots of time passing is that they don't have the graphics technology to cycle seasons effectively in a given area.

But another is player agency. If you give the player lots of freedom to do stuff at his own pace, you can hit suspension-of-disbelief issues with the main plot unless you really do put the darkspawn on a timer. Affirmatively counting time will just point out that time doesn't matter. With no calendar a player (assuming he's trying to cooperate with the narrative) can just fanwank whatever time scale feels plausible in his own judgment.

ME2 sort of tried to get away from this; The endgame actually succeeds. But Bio didn't have the guts -- or maybe had too much brains -- to be consistent with the design. The player still has the option to hold the main plot off with no consequences.

I think it was Hollingdale who used to post that Bio should just go linear. I'm not prepared to endorse that yet.

[upsettingshorts]

In Exile wrote...

Isn't Tali like 24? Her worship of Shepard, that makes me uncomfortable. Reciprocating is... well, I'd rather not think about it, personally.

I try not to think about it too much.

In Exile wrote...

EDI is screwing with us all. Chained AI? Might not be able to do more than poke fun at Joker most of the time, but uptight Turian who may well have OCD?

EDI is 100% screwing with Garrus. Joker knew what he was saying when he plugged in the overlord.

That explanation works well enough for me, heh.

[Ortaya Alevli]

Brain bleach, please.



If Tali is 24, well... Shepard is 31. Then there's Jacob and Miranda, where age difference is again seven years.

[orpheus333]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Anyone making a contribution of 1 Million+ dollars to my Cayman Island Bank account will be promised that I will personally ask Mark Darrah to increase VO*.



* does not include promise that Mark will either listen or consider such suggestion. No guarentee of action or result either.

What if we all give OVER 1 MILLION!11one to the humble indie pack 2?

[JoltDealer]

I'm in.

[Addai]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Not sure how you can call the loyalty quests in ME2 A-plot.  Very few had at all to do with the Collectors.

Easy.   The Collectors are a MacGuffin.  ME2 is about the Collectors in the same way The Maltese Falcon is about a small statue.

*scratches head*  Well, DAO wasn't really about darkspawn, either.

[In Exile]

AlanC9 wrote...

One big problem with lots of time passing is that they don't have the graphics technology to cycle seasons effectively in a given area.

Even if they do that, it just runs into the problem of the world standing still, like you said. I recently finished Fable III, and there is one part where on the good path you need  a silly amount of gold, so you can for example run around doing nothing for 20 odd hours while you gather the absurd amount of gold needed. That the world is just entirely put on hold for that completely eliminates the 'harsh choices' vibe the game was kind of going for. But then again, it's Fable.

ME2 sort of tried to get away from this; The endgame actually succeeds. But Bio didn't have the guts -- or maybe had too much brains -- to be consistent with the design. The player still has the option to hold the main plot off with no consequences.

The problem is that if you put the game on a timer you can risk the player feeling rushed. The only way to execute it well is to design an entire game around a timer. Variable scenarios up to and including a game-over-screen. I just don't think a game where it is so possible and easy to fail would be open for the player. Which is why I have an alternate design in mind.

I think it was Hollingdale who used to post that Bio should just go linear. I'm not prepared to endorse that yet.

Bioware should do what they did in Jade Empire. Free roam on wheels. They do this partially in ME2 where you have pre and post Horizon content.

Essentially, you have maybe three different major world changing plot points, but give freedom in terms of the order you do each thing within the narrative.

I wouldn't be surprised if DA2 goes this route with the framed narrative, giving Hawke 2-3 tasks sometimes within a time period, then shifting over to the next one.

Addai67 wrote..
*scratches head*  Well, DAO wasn't really
about darkspawn, either.

But it wasn't about the characters, either. The game was mostly world-building.

Ortaya Alevli wrote...

Brain bleach, please.

If
Tali is 24, well... Shepard is 31. Then there's Jacob and Miranda, where
age difference is again seven years.

.... The fact they're close in age makes it more uncomfortable for me because you would kind of hope Tali wouldn't act like Shepard was her first crush...

Modifié par In Exile, 27 décembre 2010 - 07:11 .

[Addai]

Jzadek72 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

 You have very little interaction with the squad members.

Yes, only an ENTIRE MISSION devoted to each one.

...  and... in DAO you had their personal quest.  Plus other stuff.  Your point?

We don't really know where DA2 is going to fall, of course.  Maybe the fixed character will actually mean more in-depth romances.  If they are, I'll happily eat my paranoia.

[Ortaya Alevli]

In Exile wrote...

.... The fact they're close in age makes it more uncomfortable for me because you would kind of hope Tali wouldn't act like Shepard was her first crush...

What? Liara was over a century old. hehe

[Harid]

I doubt we would be able to get more voice options regardless, PC and PS3 gamers will be penalized due to multiplatformism and the Xbox's low disk space anyway.

[GameBoyish]

If I can play a Violent City Elf girl with Cree Summer's VO throughout Origins I think I would die of joy. It's NUMBUH FIVE damnit!



*mass orders DA2*

[Heretical]

I just romanced Tali because she wasn't Liara and she wasn't Miranda.

Modifié par Heretical, 27 décembre 2010 - 09:02 .

[DarthCaine]

More sales =/= more budget

If DA2 sales more, they'll realize they can do things quick and easy and it'll still sell, and you'll see a new DA every year, making DA the new CoD

[Harid]

DarthCaine wrote...

More sales =/= more budget
If DA2 sales more, they'll realize they can do things quick and easy and it'll still sell, and you'll see a new DA every year, making DA the new CoD

People may hate on EA. . .though it has gotten better recently, but they aren't Activision, though it is hilarious to compare the two.

[Warheadz]

I surprised they haven't made the Voice-over a DLC. There's so much DLC these days! DLC is like the evil that will swallow everything! Run while you still can.

[RussianSpy27]

 So I guess we need a Poll function here:

What would you believe would have a better chance of propelling BioWare (and their boss EA) to finanance another "Origins-style" DA game with multiple PCs, many player options and an epically lengthy plot?

1) Buy as many DA2 copies as possible! More sales = EA having more trust in the franchise/BioWare = if BioWare asks to budget a huge "DA3" game of DA:O's magnitude, EA will submit. Low sales may ****** EA off and not fund DA franchise at all.

2) Don't buy DA2! The only way the developers will return to the grand scope of Origins style with a very long campaign with numerous player options/Playing Characters is if DA2 doesn't sell and they, as per David Gaider's post "go back to the drawing boards" 

Modifié par RussianSpy27, 27 décembre 2010 - 01:32 .