139 réponses à ce sujet

[DahliaLynn]

@Rage I was basically referring to the OP's talk about the BSN projects listing, where there is no such thing as negative endorsing. I also haven't seen any modder on BSN buying popularity. Hence it's position at the top, which can confuse BSN users looking for mods, and lead to threads such as this. If all modders at BSN bought popularity, I wouldn't really say a word. But they are the only ones, hence top of list, giving the false impression that BSN users find a Sexual mod to be the best mod out there.

[RagingCyclone]

Dahlia, that lack of a system to group mods was why I kept posting mine at the Nexus. Although the system there is also flawed, it was for a time very structured. It has gotten aaway from that, but what I liked about it there was the lack of "in progress" mods. There is one here on BSN in particular that I have watched with interest because it looks good. However, it has a decent popularity without a single file to download. That was not allowed at the Nexus for a long time. I would like to see a more structured method used here to present mods categorized or however, and even a removal of all the "requests" and "coming soon" mods that are listed, but just that, a listing with no actual mod in place to download.

[DahliaLynn]

@Corvus
Very simply put, you have posts with bugs? You fix them and go by that. If you have requests for more, that is your decision to put in the time and energy, since you are doing this because you enjoy it I would assume.
Do other mods do their work based on how many people hit popularity? Does that in any way degrade the mods quality if people do not hit the popularity cross? Why are you the only one doing this? Can you risk taking off the one sentence in your description of "next upgrade at 5000" and still enjoy your work and provide continuous updates? Or if people do not hit it then you shouldn't work on it at all? Because if that were the case with other modders, nothing would be updated.
I have worked way over 500 hours on the Wedding alone. Does this mean that I shouldn't continue to improve it if I don't get the thousands of hits on popularity?I will not stoop down to buying popularity because I respect myself and players,  and their decision to hit it or not.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:47 .

[DahliaLynn]

RagingCyclone wrote...



Dahlia, that lack of a system to group mods was why I kept posting mine at the Nexus. Although the system there is also flawed, it was for a time very structured. It has gotten aaway from that, but what I liked about it there was the lack of "in progress" mods. There is one here on BSN in particular that I have watched with interest because it looks good. However, it has a decent popularity without a single file to download. That was not allowed at the Nexus for a long time. I would like to see a more structured method used here to present mods categorized or however, and even a removal of all the "requests" and "coming soon" mods that are listed, but just that, a listing with no actual mod in place to download.

If anything, There should be a wishlist cross...and a popularity one downloaded and endorsed cross ..but it seems nothing is being done to improve the BSN projects set up at this time. Nexus is definitely much better organized. But even the OP hadn't known about nexus until this thread...so at least when attaining popularity on BSN, do it in a natural way. that's all I'm trying to say.

[DLAN_Immortality]

Sinmara wrote...

and one thing is interesting here:

we get this thread away from the - in my opinion bad start and things like "banning"- to a discussion about things to think about and worth to discuss. Especially in the last posts here.

I think the most bad thing is to have missunderstandings, hostility, competition based thinking ... like - sorry to the men who are better in their mind today, I know a lot, also in the projects - the patriarchalic way. we could do this better, I hope.

"keep talking sisters" is one of the best sentences here in the thread.

To be honest the only hostile posts I've seen here were from a member of your team openly insulting somebody.

Aside from that there was a lot of word twisting, and defensive attitude.

I don't think anybody here has anything personal about any of you or the mod itself, only personal preferences. And I don't want to repeat myself but bioware has to be consistant with decisions made in the past and improve their system.

Corvus I, I'm very glad to read what you say. Given the fact you don't mind either way, then I'd like you to listen to what Dahlia says. She's making a lot of sense.

Modifié par DLAN_Immortality, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:51 .

[Kevin Lynch]

This thread is going a little off the topic. Discussion of how other sites handle popularity for third-party mods is not discussion of the game and really belongs on those third-party sites. Bring it back around to discussing mods and DA:O itself. Thanks.

[idomeneas]

Well put Dahlia. We do this for our fun not because of the rankings. Otherwise there's no point in it...
However, fishing for votes is acceptable, even if not chivalrous. At the end of the day we can't force anyone not to write something even if it is controvercial. People will realize eventually what's good and what's not.

Modifié par idomeneas, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:54 .

[DahliaLynn]

Kevin Lynch wrote...

This thread is going a little off the topic. Discussion of how other sites handle popularity for third-party mods is not discussion of the game and really belongs on those third-party sites. Bring it back around to discussing mods and DA:O itself. Thanks.

The thread as I see was created because the OP questioned the Mod at the top of the BSN Project list which was at highest popularity.
I was discussing the not so classy methods in which this "top" mod was attaining its popularity, therefore causing the impression that BSN users had found this mod to be the best or highest ranked out there, which happened to be a pornographic mod.
If you feel this is off topic I can refrain from continuing on the subject matter.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:56 .

[RagingCyclone]

Dahlia, I agree with you.

And with that, I will gracefully bow out and exit stage left.

[DahliaLynn]

Are you referring to the buying of popularity as being the how and why of things and that I am being mislead? This method has been employed ever since you began this project.

To me this "sore point" is a sad and weak excuse behind a better reason for simply attaining popularity period.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 28 décembre 2010 - 07:22 .

[kusvuari]

I basically agree with everything DLAN_Immortaility, DahliaLynn and some others have said.



As I am understanding it, there is pretty broad support for the following.



1. The Bioware Social Network projects page desperately needs to be categorised to have adult and non-adult content.

2. The Popularity system on the Bioware Social Network project page needs to be overhauled so that it cannot be exploited to unfairly promote mods against others.



I think just these two things would make the projects page on this site fairer for modders and easier for casual players to navigate to the content which they want to download.

[DLAN_Immortality]

Kevin Lynch wrote...

This thread is going a little off the topic. Discussion of how other sites handle popularity for third-party mods is not discussion of the game and really belongs on those third-party sites. Bring it back around to discussing mods and DA:O itself. Thanks.

???
So this means you haven't read anything aside from just one post that happended to mention nexus, right?

This thread is actually important and numbers a lot of issues of this site that should be fixed, especially in terms of popularity. In that sole post you read, it says that Nexus is the other modding site that has a ranking system, that by the way is working better. Please tell us how listing the pros and cons in nexus to better this site is off topic, especially if it's mentioned in one post (or two or three. Hardly anything in 5 legitimate pages).


Corvus I: LOL! Oh, yea, of course.

Well, I guess what had to be said was said already. Hopefully bioware will care a bit more.

Modifié par DLAN_Immortality, 28 décembre 2010 - 07:33 .

[Thandal N'Lyman]

Been following this discussion with some interest.  Full Disclosure: I started with the (correct, it seems) assumption that the OP was waaaaay out of line with the topic and his(?) attitude towards mods for a "M"-rated game. 

Of course  there would be "adult" (sexually explicit) mods if it were at all possible.  And of course those would become the most common (in all senses of the term) ones out there.  This is the internet in the 21st Century.  Rule-34 only gets more ingrained!


But the huge backlash toward the SD team over their use of endorsements seems out-of-line to me as well.  As someone who plays DA  regularly with over 3GB of mods installed, who was done a couple of trivial mods using the Toolset for my own use, written (and posted) a mini-tutorial on using DA  mods, and who decided to see what one (of the many) SD mods was all about, I can say that:

a)  I have NEVER noticed a mod's "popularity" or "endorsement" rating before deciding to download it.  I do try to remember to "click the cross" (or "up-thumb") for those I've liked.  But if it weren't for the "Nag" feature on Nexus, I probably wouldn't.

b.  It doesn't bother me in the slightest for a modder to say, "More updates will be produced if you (the Community) indicate your desire for them in an active manner."  Since expecting folk to write detailed (or even brief) remarks is asking too much, using the "One-click means - Yes, please" approach seems reasonable to me.  Would I rely on, or even desire, that sort of feedback as an incentive to continue working on a mod of my own?  Maybe (probably) not.  Mais à chacun son goût...

c)  I very occasionally use a site's "Most Popular" sorting tool to see what others have liked, but am seldom impressed by a "better" relative ranking.

d.  I would WHOLEHEARTEDLY support some kind of "type" tag for projects on the BSN, the two most critical (in my opinion) being "NRFPT" (Not Ready For Prime Time:  Beta, WIP), and "Adult".  Beyond that, the system could support all kinds of categories that authors might want to assign.  But if we just had those two, it would provide an easy way to filter out material for those who did not want to encounter one or the other (or both.)

e.  Oh, and for those who care, I did not endorse the SD module I tried.  In additon to finding the general tone too unrelenting in its focus and insufficiently romantic in its execution (which just means that it wasn't my cuppa') the incomplete VO work really put me off.  But that doesn't mean I couldn't appreciate the enormous amount of work that went into it, or recognize that others might find it "exactly what they were looking for."

Modifié par Thandal NLyman, 28 décembre 2010 - 07:45 .

[DahliaLynn]

Corvus I wrote...

DahliaLynn,
""To me this "sore point" is a sad and weak excuse behind a better reason for simply attaining popularity period.""

From who?

I can't get them from those that have already given them and those that have not don't care any way.

Why your requirement for next update at 5000? Will you not update if you don't get your target popularity? Your mod doesnt deserve to be best it can be? Must you continue to request people hit your cross to determine the worthiness of the time you put into improving your mod?
I guarantee you if you dare take that requirement off, your popularity increase rate will drastically change. But your fans and download rates won't. If you had not done this from the start, I guarantee you, your popularity would not have been at this level. This isn't honest.
You probably aren't willing to take that chance in fear of people not hitting it because they feel they like it and do it out of choice and not direction. But that would make your mod popularity much more accurate in comparison to other mods who do not make such requirements, therefore putting things into better perspective for those looking to see popular mods, and obviously that's not in your best interests.

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 28 décembre 2010 - 07:42 .

[Challseus]

Some thoughts:

• It's been argued for over a year now, about how the rating system on this site needs to be changed. I'm one of the most optimistic people you will ever meet, and I essentially have given up all hope.
• I have no problem with these mods being the site. If you object to them, don't play them. What is the saying? What's one man's trash is another's gold? *shrug*
• With regards to them being at the top of the list, for those saying they are only up there because of the "next upgrade at 5000", or whatever it is, I submit to you evidence A: A Dance with Roges, Part I. This is a module with extreme sexual themes, and guess how many votes it has? 736. That is unheard of on NWVault. What's even crazier is that it was released in 2006! Some of the most popular modules released in 2002 and 2003 (i.e. Adam Miller's stuff, Rick Burton's stuff, etc.) don't even have that many votes.
  
  In short, sex sells. This mod would be at the top, regardless of if it had that line asking for more popularity.

Now, I can go on about how the popularity doesn't really correlate to a mod/modules's quality, especially in relation to others, but tha's another thread for another day. Even though I have given up hope, I will write yet another PM to Fernando Melo seeing if there is anything that can be done about the categories, rating systems, and for the love of god, the dead projects!

[DLAN_Immortality]

Challseus, it's not that a certain mod is in the site or not. It's tge fact that an "adult" category is needed. I see that as an asset in nexus, and it should be here too. Plus the wip category and the change of the popularity system, of course. :-)

I really hope somebody listens to you this time around! I've also voiced my concerns and nobody listened.

Modifié par DLAN_Immortality, 28 décembre 2010 - 07:47 .

[Challseus]

DLAN_Immortality wrote...

Challseus, it's not that a certain mod is in the site or not. It's tge fact that an "adult" category is needed. I see that as an asset in nexus, and it should be here too. :-)

I really hope somebody listens to you this time around! I've also voiced my concerns and nobody listened.

Fair enough, with regards to the categories. To be fair to the Biowarians I have reached out to, I know they have good intentions. But, from what I understand, everyone was pulled in to work on DA2, leaving nothing for DA, or this site. Damn shame, really. I had such high hopes that this place could end up better than NWVault.

I'll still send that PM though

Modifié par Challseus, 28 décembre 2010 - 07:49 .

[RagingCyclone]

*stepping back in for one point to make* Corvus I, you state that you can only get one cross from each player. I decided to test that. I gave a plus to Dark Times when I first downloaded it at version 1.02. I just gave it a second cross now at 1.07. It is possible to get more than one cross from each person. Judging that the mod I just did this with updated versions, I am guessing you can give a cross for each update. *exiting back stage left*

[DahliaLynn]

Corvus I wrote...

Challseus, I agree.

DahliaLynn,
""Why your requirement for next update at 5000?""

What requirement?

Um, Am I nuts? "Next Upgrade at approx 5000"

If they don't hit popularity, people won't get an upgrade. Hm. Playing "I didn't do anything" really doesn't work.

Challseus says sex sells. I agree. Your mod could be quite popular. But unfairly, relative to other modders who do not write "next update 5000". (and rightfully so)

Modifié par DahliaLynn, 28 décembre 2010 - 08:02 .

[RagingCyclone]

Corvus I, copied from the main description page:

WARNING NUDITY / WARNUNG NACKTHEIT - The German version is under construction. (Deutsche Beschreibung weiter unten, bitte)



Please remember to return and press the popularity cross.



"IMPORTANT" This mod is dialogue driven. If you are running any other dialogue driven mods you will lose a great deal of content . You may pick up a few lines of extra cute in other mods, but Sappho's Daughters is 100s of lines of editing, cut scenes and flag adjustments.



Next upgrade at approx 5000.



This mod is made for female human or elf pcs