495 réponses à ce sujet

[ErichHartmann]

Companion A.I. is not really an issue in Dragon Age since you can micromanage their every move.

[Bigdoser]

People are still arguing about this? I think its abit too late to add all the changes you want sarah the game is coming out in like 3 months. If you have a huge problem with dragon age 2 no need to buy it, I don't think BW will be making much changes in the last 3 months. Well this is just my opinion.

[FedericoV]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Active customization is an aspect yes not a flaw.

The point of active customization is min maxing stats wich is an important part of CRPG off course (never been a fan of min maxing but I understand why many players are so interested in it). I do not see a lot of difference if I min max them using DA2 upgrades or DAO upgrades untill I'm able to affect their stats and their build.

So, the only valid complaint is about joinable NPC appereance. But, if we're talking about classical CRPGs then I do not really get your position since in classical rpgs appereance options were very very very limited for the PC and NPC alike. In IE you get an avatar for each class and only two colors to change the way joinable NPCs look.

Btw, complete customizations make sense in games where you create each charachter and you are in some way the "god" of the party. But that was never the focus of Bioware's CPRGs if not for IWD 1.

Modifié par FedericoV, 28 décembre 2010 - 05:19 .

[Maria Caliban]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Active customization is an aspect yes not a flaw. . Some of us enjoy it and aren't annoyed or too lazy to swap out gear.

I realize you feel that way and can understand the appeal for you.

In my perfect world, there would be less loot in general, but each companion would have a number of outfits you find/craft/buy that both fit their visual style and had a variety of different bonuses for different builds.

ME2 has no armor upgrade system for companions at all, you're stuck from start til end watching Miranda in a skin tight **** outfit fight the entire game for example. Yet I'm supposed to believe this is a good thing because her looking like a ****, somehow "defines her personality"

Numerically speaking, armor and powers were both upgraded.

I agree that Miranda's outfit did not match her personality and would have preferred something different. I do think Jack's outfit did match her. I would have liked for all companions to have regular outfits and 'extreme hazard' outfits for the toxic/vacuum locations.

What you're asking for isn't going to happen, because in some ways it defeats the whole point of controling a party.

I accept that for the Dragon Age series, the combat will always incorporate RTS elements, just as I accept that Bethesda's Fallout series will always incorporate FPS elements. Like many, I have an ideal of 'RPGness', but unlike some, I do not constantly feel the need to belittle or insult those whose preferences are different, nor do I suggest that BioWare has failed on some fundamental level for not meeting my personal standards in all matters.

In fact, I don't see RPG 'purity' as inherently good. It's simply that I find wargames very tiresome after awhile.

Like I suggested don't like controlling and making choices for mindless companions, play rpg's that aren't party based. Its really that simple.

I like having a party. Dragon Age: Origins with only my PC would be unfun for me. It's that simple.

There are simply aspects of the party system I want improved. Sadly, those improvements are detrimental for you.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Companion A.I. is not really an issue in Dragon Age since you can micromanage their every move.

Exactly

[nightcobra]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Companion A.I. is not really an issue in Dragon Age since you can micromanage their every move.

Exactly

true for the pc version, for the consoles it was a bit more complicated since you couldn't really control where your party member had to go unless you controlled them yourself.
they added the move to button in the radial menu for DA2' console version this time around so that should fix that particular issue.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Maria Caliban wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Active customization is an aspect yes not a flaw. . Some of us enjoy it and aren't annoyed or too lazy to swap out gear.

I realize you feel that way and can understand the appeal for you.

In my perfect world, there would be less loot in general, but each companion would have a number of outfits you find/craft/buy that both fit their visual style and had a variety of different bonuses for different builds.

ME2 has no armor upgrade system for companions at all, you're stuck from start til end watching Miranda in a skin tight **** outfit fight the entire game for example. Yet I'm supposed to believe this is a good thing because her looking like a ****, somehow "defines her personality"

Numerically speaking, armor and powers were both upgraded.

I agree that Miranda's outfit did not match her personality and would have preferred something different. I do think Jack's outfit did match her. I would have liked for all companions to have regular outfits and 'extreme hazard' outfits for the toxic/vacuum locations.

What you're asking for isn't going to happen, because in some ways it defeats the whole point of controling a party.

I accept that for the Dragon Age series, the combat will always incorporate RTS elements, just as I accept that Bethesda's Fallout series will always incorporate FPS elements. Like many, I have an ideal of 'RPGness', but unlike some, I do not constantly feel the need to belittle or insult those whose preferences are different, nor do I suggest that BioWare has failed on some fundamental level for not meeting my personal standards in all matters.

In fact, I don't see RPG 'purity' as inherently good. It's simply that I find wargames very tiresome after awhile.

Like I suggested don't like controlling and making choices for mindless companions, play rpg's that aren't party based. Its really that simple.

I like having a party. Dragon Age: Origins with only my PC would be unfun for me. It's that simple.

There are simply aspects of the party system I want improved. Sadly, those improvements are detrimental for you.

If Bioware from this point forward made all their rpg's a mindles diablo like click fest with a lack of pause and play tactical options. I think they'd lose a ton of sales.

I wouldn't say Bioware failed, I will say DA2 is more than likely rushed and will be missing a ton of features I'd expect a Bioware CPRG to have but thats obviously not going to change.

You keep saying you like having a party yet you seem at the same time appauled that you actually have to actively control said party. Can't have your cake and eat it too Maria.

[Maria Caliban]

Brockololly wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
The upgrade system in ME 2 is superior because after you buy, find, or create an upgrade, your companions automatically apply it.

Somewhat related, but I hate upgrades like that which are just blanket upgrades with no drawbacks. It just makes things so boring as you quickly get overpowered. I'd love it if "upgrades" were more like Fallout style perks where they may boost something but they had some tangible drawback too. Such that you need to actually think for yourself about applying upgrades and not just think of them as an instant win. Maybe have some sort of almost Madden style "recommended play" option for those that don't want to bother with upgrades and inventory tinkering, but leave the manual option there as well.

In some respects the weapon upgrades were like that in ME2, as not all new weapons were technically across the board upgrades, but of course there was barely any way in the game to tell what exactly the weapons were doing.

I found both ME 2 and DA:O lacked transparency when it comes to mechanics. I can forgive ME 2 somewhat as it has shooter elements where there's an emphasis on 'feeling' the difference between weaponry, but I recall the first time I took the Templar spec and apparently one of the active powers is based on willpower but it didn't tell you that originally.

If they keep the companion outfits for DA 3, what I'd like to see is a robust crafting system. As you explore the world, you find special enchantments, materials, etc, and then can go to a master smith and develop customized armors, rings, amulets, and weapons for your followers.

The base material would give you an upper limit, so BioWare could still adhere to its plot based progression for outfits.

Example: Aveline starts out in her leathers, which have +x to armor. You can use the enchanting/smithing/whatever system to add things like +str, + dex, +armor, +elemental resistance, but there's a limit to what you can add so you can't get all of them. Then later on, when she upgrades in-story, to her metal Kirkwall guard armor, the upper limit is raised. Again, you can stuff her full of everything. You have to pick and choose what you want to raise.

I can imagine particularly powerful enchantments as having drawbacks, but I'd keep the low and medium level ones as only having pluses.

[Monica83]

I quote sarah in 100% a Crpg must stay a Crpg,, And a game born in a way must be improved and stay loyal to the nature of the product...
I don't think people like maria loves Rpg..But i have nothing aganist that i have something when someone comes here to ask for a title whit his own features to change.. Since if i want to play to mass effect i play mass effect.. Im not interested to see another of toons Action/rpg with stupid moves and streamlized elements..Why i am here? Since im a bioware costumer from much time and as a customer now im almost pissed off... When a company like bioware choice to make mediocre game its always sad.. Believe or not origins was released in a nice time.. Because origin was different to other mediocre action rpg around.. Now they decided to strip off rpg elements.. to follow the fashion and make a mediocre title.. Full of static things with semplified dialogues and very low nearly absent customization..



What i can say?... I will whait the witcher 2.. Nice story.. Nice graphic..Better animation but of course have a schematic dialogue system too.. but.... In the witcher you have a premaded character this is the difference....

Im looking to play a nice dark rpg.. Dragon age 2 will be not.. Its more like a heroic cartoonish fantasy game...

Ok maybe can have a great storyline... But still remain a small title compared with Origins...

Modifié par Monica83, 28 décembre 2010 - 05:50 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Companion A.I. is not really an issue in Dragon Age since you can micromanage their every move.

Exactly

true for the pc version, for the consoles it was a bit more complicated since you couldn't really control where your party member had to go unless you controlled them yourself.
they added the move to button in the radial menu for DA2' console version this time around so that should fix that particular issue.

Considering DA:O for consoles was an after thought, I was never suprised that it was somewhat an inferior experience in comparison to the PC version. Unfortunately, I fear they went so hard to make the console skus better this time around, the PC version will more than likely feel more like a console port rather than playing to the platform's strengths.

[upsettingshorts]

Monica83 wrote...

I quote sarah in 100% a Crpg must stay a Crpg,, And a game born in a way must be improved and stay loyal to the nature of the product...

And what if Bioware says they are doing just that.  Who is right, you or them?

Monica83 wrote...

I don't think people like maria loves Rpg..

I don't think people like Monica get that people can love the same games for very different reasons.

Monica83 wrote...

Maria if you don't like complicated rpg's play fable...

I still don't understand the word "complicated" being used to describe this mechanic.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 28 décembre 2010 - 05:49 .

[nightcobra]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Companion A.I. is not really an issue in Dragon Age since you can micromanage their every move.

Exactly

true for the pc version, for the consoles it was a bit more complicated since you couldn't really control where your party member had to go unless you controlled them yourself.
they added the move to button in the radial menu for DA2' console version this time around so that should fix that particular issue.

Considering DA:O for consoles was an after thought, I was never suprised that it was somewhat an inferior experience in comparison to the PC version. Unfortunately, I fear they went so hard to make the console skus better this time around, the PC version will more than likely feel more like a console port rather than playing to the platform's strengths.

i'm sorry i wanted a dragon age console version that is on par with the pc version then, wait.....no i'm not.
 

[Dave of Canada]

I'm a big fan of the unique outfits because we're in a visual medium, how a character looks like influences how the player feels about them and how they are first shown. The hatred for the Isabela outfit is a perfect example, you don't like how she's not wearing pants but the Isabela character doesn't really care what you think.

Had Sten be using his concept art, what would be the first impression you'd recieve from him? You'd think barbarian, savage and other words that fit in that general concept but as you get to know the character - you'd be shocked to find that Sten is actually a decent guy past his look, this helps create ties to the character in more ways than one.

Excluding the visual medium aspect, everybody uses unique looks to impact how the audience feels. When you're reading a novel and the writer really wants to drill it in your head that this character is special, how would he go about it? They'd go in more detail about the character's armor, they'd explain why this character is special.

"However, this man was not like the others in the room; his armor glinted in the sunlight and his sword glowed with a faint hue of blue. By this description, you remember stories of the legendary knight from your childhood."

Much different than say...

"However, this man was not like the others in the room; while his armor and weaponry looked the same, you could tell by the description that he was the legendary knight from your childhood stories."

Including these unique models, we can have access to unique animations (Varric's steeple) / unique body types (Aveline's arms) and the unique body language of said characters, Sten's body language shouldn't have been the same as everybody else.

I can understand liking customization but sarcastically insulting unique outfits because you hate it is just ignorant.

[Monica83]

Sorry for the answer i am bit upset lol

[tonnactus]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...


Because the AI in ME2 is just as bad if not worse, but because they have a "distinct unique look" its ok.

Thats right.
They assume that the latest weapon i found is always the best one.So i have to spend some time on the weapon locker on the normandy to make things right.
Or charge into the fray with smgs into heavy weapon using enemies because sometimes they leave the cover i choose for them for whatever reason.
At least Dragon Age have combat tactics.

Modifié par tonnactus, 28 décembre 2010 - 05:54 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Companion A.I. is not really an issue in Dragon Age since you can micromanage their every move.

Exactly

true for the pc version, for the consoles it was a bit more complicated since you couldn't really control where your party member had to go unless you controlled them yourself.
they added the move to button in the radial menu for DA2' console version this time around so that should fix that particular issue.

Considering DA:O for consoles was an after thought, I was never suprised that it was somewhat an inferior experience in comparison to the PC version. Unfortunately, I fear they went so hard to make the console skus better this time around, the PC version will more than likely feel more like a console port rather than playing to the platform's strengths.

i'm sorry i wanted a dragon age console version that is on par with the pc version then, wait.....no i'm not.
 

I never said there was anything wrong with wanting an equal experience on either platform. Just that each platform should play to its strengths and not be limited by the others technical limitations.

[upsettingshorts]

I would love for Mass Effect to incorporate Dragon Age-style tactics. It would make a lot of sense. Considering in those games you exclusively control Shepard anyway.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm a big fan of the unique outfits because we're in a visual medium, how a character looks like influences how the player feels about them and how they are first shown. The hatred for the Isabela outfit is a perfect example, you don't like how she's not wearing pants but the Isabela character doesn't really care what you think.

Had Sten be using his concept art, what would be the first impression you'd recieve from him? You'd think barbarian, savage and other words that fit in that general concept but as you get to know the character - you'd be shocked to find that Sten is actually a decent guy past his look, this helps create ties to the character in more ways than one.

Excluding the visual medium aspect, everybody uses unique looks to impact how the audience feels. When you're reading a novel and the writer really wants to drill it in your head that this character is special, how would he go about it? They'd go in more detail about the character's armor, they'd explain why this character is special.

"However, this man was not like the others in the room; his armor glinted in the sunlight and his sword glowed with a faint hue of blue. By this description, you remember stories of the legendary knight from your childhood."

Much different than say...

"However, this man was not like the others in the room; while his armor and weaponry looked the same, you could tell by the description that he was the legendary knight from your childhood stories."

Including these unique models, we can have access to unique animations (Varric's steeple) / unique body types (Aveline's arms) and the unique body language of said characters, Sten's body language shouldn't have been the same as everybody else.

I can understand liking customization but sarcastically insulting unique outfits because you hate it is just ignorant.

Personality defines a person, not what clothes they wear. If the later were true everyone would wear the same thing every day.

[tonnactus]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm a big fan of the unique outfits because we're in a visual medium, how a character looks like influences how the player feels about them and how they are first shown.

Im am too.The first Mass Effect was a good compromise in this regard.On board of the normandy squadmembers have their outfits on.In combat,i decide what they have to wear. Because the player is always the commander who also decide what talents they use and what enemies they attack.What comes next?

"Unique" combat behaviors that the player couldnt influence because it compromise their personality??

Modifié par tonnactus, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:00 .

[Dave of Canada]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Personality defines a person, not what clothes they wear. If the later were true everyone would wear the same thing every day.

Clothes impact personality. How does one look at an "emo" or "jock" ? They judge their personality before they even know the person by how they look, a first opinion is created when you first look upon somebody and that's first opinion is very hard to shake off. By example, Carver and his "derpness" will be hard to shake off for many people.

Would Darth Vader be half as intimidating if he was wearing a t-shirt and some shorts, even if his personality remained the same?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:00 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Personality defines a person, not what clothes they wear. If the later were true everyone would wear the same thing every day.

Clothes impact personality. How does one look at an "emo" or "jock" ? They judge their personality before they even know the person by how they look, a first opinion is created when you first look upon a character. Would Darth Vader be half as intimidating if he was wearing a t-shirt and some shorts, even if his personality remained the same?

Which is sterotyping and generally not a ideal way to go about defining people without getting to know them. Like I said, Miranda would still be Miranda without looking like a ****, Morrigan was still Morrigan without wearing her cleavage starter shirt.  The idea that people need/want  a static outfit to relate to companions is actually kinda sad if you really think about it.

Modifié par CoS Sarah Jinstar, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:02 .

[Monica83]

I don't think have unique outfit its a feature... Personality have nothing to do with what clothes you have... And in a party based crpg its not a feature having unique outfit for companion... This is in fact a bad thing because you can't customize nothing.. Another heil to staticness

[upsettingshorts]

ITT: People who don't value something argue it must also therefore have no value to others.

Value is subjective. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:04 .

[Maria Caliban]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Companion A.I. is not really an issue in Dragon Age since you can micromanage their every move.

You can micromanage their every move. I often end up doing just that. However, I don't want to have to micromanage their every move, which is something a better AI would let me do.

Seriously, this has happened to me:
Leliana spots a trap. Alerts the party.
Leliana runs up to the trap and triggers it.
Now Leliana is on fire, and she spots another trap, so she runs to it and triggers it.

It's a funny, in a 'something is horribly wrong here' way.

Have you ever played Left 4 Dead? If the gaming community were smart, Left 4 Dead would get as much credit as Crysis does for being 'the cutting edge.' Play Left 4 Dead 2 in a vs game as the zombies, and watch what computer controlled zombies do. They're aggressive, opportunistic, and work together.

Example:
As a Smoker, I grab one of the survivors, pull them away from the group, and start choking them. An AI controlled Spitter immediately rushes between me and the group of survivors. This means if they want to help the other Survivor, they need to take on the Spitter, and even if they kill her, they have to walk through her acidic remains and take damage.

It's a simple action, but a very sophisticated one as well.

Meanwhile, back in Dragon Age, Leliana has spotted a trap, sees a group of monsters, and so charges through the trap to them. There's no, "I should prioritize traps over monsters" or "if the tank hasn't engaged a group of enemies, I should start at range."