495 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

ITT: People who don't value something argue it must also therefore have no value to others.

Value is subjective. 

But I said I can understand where the customization crowd comes from. :I

[upsettingshorts]

scyphozoa wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

ITT: People who don't value something argue it must also therefore have no value to others.

Value is subjective. 

ITT opinions are stated as facts.

That's in every thread.

Dave of Canada wrote...

But I said I can understand where the customization crowd comes from. :I

I wasn't referring to everybody.

This is one of the issues in DA2 that people often describe as being a loss in features for "no reason" or "dumbing down" because they do not value what the change offers.  As such, they focus only on the cost (loss of previous feature) since they do not recognize the value in what it purchased (unique appearance).  The result is their criticism of posters in favor of the change rely on the argument that they approve of or endorse the cost, which is like saying, "Oh, you like spending $200?!"

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:13 .

[Monica83]

Maybe maria party based rpg are not for your... And yes i played left for dead and enjoyed it but its a cooperative shooter after all.. I Don't think can be compared with rpg's

[Dave of Canada]

So stupid AI is okay because it's a party based RPG and smart AI should never be compared to it?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:11 .

[In Exile]

scyphozoa wrote...

This is where I'm at. I don't dislike the concept of unique outfits per follower, I just dislike the ones I don't find aesthetically pleasing. I am hoping for a minimum of 3 variations per follower, 5-7 would be great. 

My ideal variation of the ME2 system was this; every follower had a unique armor set, just like Shep has his N7 armor. Then, when buying armor upgrades, the Normandy can reproduce them and all squadmates can wear them. An armor piece, say a chestplate, will have the same stats no matter which squadmate wears it, but it will have a unique design per that squadmates predefined armor set.

This would result in the player only having to manage a paper-doll inventory of a ~dozen items, but each character maintaining unique appearances and able to individually customize item statistics. Essentially, every squadmate would have access to the same armor sliders/paperdoll that Shep has access to.

I'm cool with that. It's not that I hate inventory management like some. I just want companions to look distinct. I also happen to like consistency. So if Shepard is wearing N7 armour, then I would like other characters to wear armour too. It would bother me if Hawke had to wear massive armour in DA2 but no one else did. Since there is the idea of class appropriate armour, it wouldn't bother me if rogue or mage Hawke had the option of clothing.

The problem with that is that if you have 8 followers, that's already 24 unique models. With 5-7 per model that means over 40-56 models.

[Monica83]

Im not sayn that.... But after all Left for dead AI isn't so great.. Companion can't trow grenades or molotov they pick up only medikit pills and other stuff... Sometimes they pass something to you or if you are i danger they come to help... In a game like an rpg where you have spells skills potion and other things to use you need a AI much more complicated...But in a party based game the AI isn't much necessary because you make all choice... So you drive your companion...

If you dont want you have tactics on DAO.. But if for you is silly micromanage thing... Then unistall origins and install oblivion..o fallout 3... If you dont like party based game how you can come here and want a game is changed?

[upsettingshorts]

Monica83 wrote...

how you can come here and want a game is changed?

Same way you can come here and want the game to remain the same. 

[Monica83]

Simple.. Origin is born in a way... Its ok make some changes... But kill and rewrite an entire game its like first play doom as a shooter and later play doom ala super mario...

[In Exile]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Thats not how it works though Angry, like I said, its considered party based for a reason, I can't fathom why people are trying to force Bioware to strip functionality out just due to them finding it too "complicated" to not be hand held and have no need to upgrade their party's equipment over the course of the game. Its not rocket science and it really isn't that complicated, especially since we're not using something like a D&D 2.0 type of sytem with Thaco and the like.

No one is saying this. People have used the word tedious, but that doesn't mean "we want it to be less complicated."

ME2 forced you to upgrade equipment. With upgrades, everyting goes from baseline to +50% throughought the game. Certain weapon upgrades actually give you +100% damage to certain kinds of armour/biotics/shields/health. That is the difference between a YMIR being invincible (almost) and a fight with 3 being manageable on hardcore.

Not to mention each weapon was very distinct in terms of DSP, ammo, accuracy. The problem was that ME2 didn't mention numbers.

It's bad enough DA2 no longer has a ton of customization the first game had, along with entire systems like fatigue playing a part being stripped out because its "too complicated" Seriously the current trend when it comes to RPG's of streamlining them to hell and back, really needs to stop.

If fatigue had any meaningful effect on the game it might mean something. At best it was a % reduction in stamina you can just balance for by reducing the stamina pool and gains.

[Maria Caliban]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

If Bioware from this point forward made all their rpg's a mindles diablo like click fest with a lack of pause and play tactical options. I think they'd lose a ton of sales.

If you're going to accuse me of wanting to destroy RPGs, at least do so in a way that's consistent with my stated preferences.

I want *less* combat. I want *less* loot. I want *less* emphasis on leveling. I want *less* grinding through disposable hordes. That's the opposite of Diablo and World of Warcraft, and more like Quest for Glory or other adventure/RPGs.

You keep saying you like having a party yet you seem at the same time appauled that you actually have to actively control said party. Can't have your cake and eat it too Maria.

Actually, Mass Effect 1 and 2 give me just that. :happy: There are times in ME 1 where I'd just stand around and watch Tali and Liara tear through a group of baddies.

But, I'm not appalled with controlling my companions. There's a difference between 'I sometimes find it tiresome...', 'I dislike...', 'Not an RPG element...', and 'I am appalled' or 'This is bad.'

I try to avoid the hyperbolic language that runs rampant on the internet.

As I pointed out, the RTS elements you like can be fun... but they have nothing to do with role-playing in my mind.

[Dave of Canada]

Monica83 wrote...

If you dont want you have tactics on DAO.. But if for you is silly micromanage thing...

You can't micromanage on the console and not everybody wants to micromanage all the time on the PC.

Should I burn my CDs and play Oblivion instead?

Smarter AI doesn't mean the death of micromanaging.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:21 .

[Maria Caliban]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm a big fan of the unique outfits because we're in a visual medium, how a character looks like influences how the player feels about them and how they are first shown. The hatred for the Isabela outfit is a perfect example, you don't like how she's not wearing pants but the Isabela character doesn't really care what you think.

I imagine she's a bit like this:

[Monica83]

Of course not.. and im not referring at you im referring at the people that think to micromanage as annoyng

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Maria Caliban wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

If Bioware from this point forward made all their rpg's a mindles diablo like click fest with a lack of pause and play tactical options. I think they'd lose a ton of sales.

If you're going to accuse me of wanting to destroy RPGs, at least do so in a way that's consistent with my stated preferences.

I want *less* combat. I want *less* loot. I want *less* emphasis on leveling. I want *less* grinding through disposable hordes. That's the opposite of Diablo and World of Warcraft, and more like Quest for Glory or other adventure/RPGs.

You keep saying you like having a party yet you seem at the same time appauled that you actually have to actively control said party. Can't have your cake and eat it too Maria.

Actually, Mass Effect 1 and 2 give me just that. :happy: There are times in ME 1 where I'd just stand around and watch Tali and Liara tear through a group of baddies.

But, I'm not appalled with controlling my companions. There's a difference between 'I sometimes find it tiresome...', 'I dislike...', 'Not an RPG element...', and 'I am appalled' or 'This is bad.'

I try to avoid the hyperbolic language that runs rampant on the internet.

As I pointed out, the RTS elements you like can be fun... but they have nothing to do with role-playing in my mind.

Which is why I keep saying keep mass effect like ME for those who like it, and keep Dragon Age, DA for those that perfer the more classical approach. Personally I found companions useless in ME2, since 9 out of  10 times they either cross your line of fire, run into death, or generally just get in the way. Tis why I perfer the tactical full party control and hope it doesn't go away just because some find it tedious to control a party in a party based game.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Monica83 wrote...

If you dont want you have tactics on DAO.. But if for you is silly micromanage thing...

You can't micromanage on the console and not everybody wants to micromanage all the time on the PC.

Should I burn my CDs and play Oblivion instead?

Smarter AI doesn't mean the death of micromanaging.

I have no quams with smarter AI. What I do have quams with is people complaining about micromanaging a party in a PARTY BASED CRPG.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

I'm a big fan of the unique outfits because we're in a visual medium, how a character looks like influences how the player feels about them and how they are first shown. The hatred for the Isabela outfit is a perfect example, you don't like how she's not wearing pants but the Isabela character doesn't really care what you think.

I imagine she's a bit like this:

And you guys are more like this in defense of criticism
http://www.penny-arc...mic/2006/01/20/http://www.penny-arc...mic/2006/01/20/

Modifié par CoS Sarah Jinstar, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:34 .

[Collider]

There is no Mass Effect 2 syndrome.

[AlexXIV]

Dave of Canada wrote...

So stupid AI is okay because it's a party based RPG and smart AI should never be compared to it?

I suspect the AI is stupid on purpose. If they made it more intelligent, people wouldn't need to check on their companions all the time, thus game gets easier. So since it is probably too much effort to make a game where your intelligence is actually challenged, they just make the companions that stupid that the player is at least busy keeping an eye on them.

[In Exile]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Which is why I keep saying keep mass effect like ME for those who like it, and keep Dragon Age, DA for those that perfer the more classical approach. Personally I found companions useless in ME2, since 9 out of  10 times they either cross your line of fire, run into death, or generally just get in the way. Tis why I perfer the tactical full party control and hope it doesn't go away just because some find it tedious to control a party in a party based game.

You're not going to find many people agree with this. I suppose I should laud you on your desire to have less games you like, but I'm not like that and I'm sure others share my disposition. All games should be games I like. That gives me much more entertainment value. On any particular forum, I will always advocate for the kind of game I like.

If they suddenly released a Halo RPG with PC VO and character customization, my reaction wouldn't be "Keep Halo the same!" but "Score! A third series that implements my favourite features!"

[Monica83]

Well this is kinda funny... lol

[AlexXIV]

Collider wrote...

There is no Mass Effect 2 syndrome.

There is one. It's when people assume DA2 is ME2 just in a medivial setting.

[Dave of Canada]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

And you guys are more like this in defense of criticism
http://www.penny-arc...mic/2006/01/20/
[/url]http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/01/20/[url]

Did you take offense to the Kirk picture that wasn't related to you at all or are you just trying to offend?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:34 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

And you guys are more like this in defense of criticism
http://www.penny-arc...mic/2006/01/20/
[/url]http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/01/20/[url]

Did you take offense to the Kirk picture that wasn't related to you at all or are you just trying to offend?

Not at all I actually chuckled, and kinda thought Maria was refering to herself for a second heh.