495 réponses à ce sujet

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

In Exile wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Which is why I keep saying keep mass effect like ME for those who like it, and keep Dragon Age, DA for those that perfer the more classical approach. Personally I found companions useless in ME2, since 9 out of  10 times they either cross your line of fire, run into death, or generally just get in the way. Tis why I perfer the tactical full party control and hope it doesn't go away just because some find it tedious to control a party in a party based game.

You're not going to find many people agree with this. I suppose I should laud you on your desire to have less games you like, but I'm not like that and I'm sure others share my disposition. All games should be games I like. That gives me much more entertainment value. On any particular forum, I will always advocate for the kind of game I like.

If they suddenly released a Halo RPG with PC VO and character customization, my reaction wouldn't be "Keep Halo the same!" but "Score! A third series that implements my favourite features!"

Really? I could name about a dozen people from these very boards that agree with me on that or have suggested as much. Why does DA have to be just like ME? Because Exile likes his precious voiced PC? Please. Want to play ME? Go play Mass effect. Dragon Age would do just fine standing on its own as its own entity, it hardly needed the Shepard make over to sell.

[Maria Caliban]

Monica83 wrote...

I don't think people like maria loves Rpg..

Do I love RPGs? I love computer/console games as a medium. I actually prefer to call them interactive cyber-literature, as I think the word 'game' limits them in a number of areas, but it's a highly pretentious title and game works the majority of the time.

I enjoy the RPG genre, more so than some others, but I see many of its conventions as problematic.

DnD was based on tabletop wargames. I hate-hate-hate the emphasis on violence and acquisition of loot this has created, and I say this as someone who once spent 8 hours straight guild mates through Molten Core, slept, and then spent another 16 doing it. I also was continuously amused by the slo-mo head explosions in Fallout 3.

'Killing things' is about the most shallow and binary type of conflict you can have within a work. I understand that many people enjoy making an elaborate chess game out of it, but I see it as ultimately a facile and mindless element. 'Killing things' can be a gateway to something a bit deeper but any conversation where the act itself is given value is going to fall flat with me.

[Dave of Canada]

Maria Caliban wrote...

DnD was based on tabletop wargames. I hate-hate-hate the emphasis on violence and acquisition of loot this has created, and I say this as someone who once spent 8 hours straight guild mates through Molten Core, slept, and then spent another 16 doing it.

Please don't remind me.
Please.

*reminded of C'thun trash, shudders*

Getting better loot to get better loot for better loot isn't a fun system when all you can strive for is more loot.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:46 .

[In Exile]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Really? I could name about a dozen people from these very boards that agree with me on that or have suggested as much. Why does DA have to be just like ME? Because Exile likes his precious voiced PC? Please. Want to play ME? Go play Mass effect. Dragon Age would do just fine standing on its own as its own entity, it hardly needed the Shepard make over to sell.

What about the dozen people from these very boards who agree with me and have suggested that DA:O implement ME features? 

And you're absolutely right DA2 should be like ME because I like some features from ME more. Dragon Age would be a better game for me if it had these features, and I'm under no obligation to advocate any other change than the change I like.

[Matchy Pointy]

The voiced Pc is one of the things I'm looking forward to the most in DA2, and is one of the things for me that made me connect more with my Shepard then in most of my other character I've played in RPGs, and I've played CRPGs for a very long time.

[Matchy Pointy]

BrotherWarth wrote...

This conversation got really weird. We have Exile saying everyone should like every game. Maria saying games shouldn't be violent, then saying she likes violence. And the last few pages...

You expect a thread to stay focues and on topic? Thatalmost never happens

[upsettingshorts]

In Exile wants more games to be like ones he likes. He doesn't see the value in DAO remaining its own entity for the sake of it because he would prefer it be more like ME2. He doesn't feel the need to apologize for this point of view, and I don't blame him.  This relates to companion outfits because they were a ME2 feature.

Maria is saying that she would like for gameplay to be about more than violence as the wargaming element of party-based cRPGs gets tiresome for her. She is arguing for more nonviolent and story based features and part of that argument is companions with personalities independent of player control.  This relates to companion outfits because they are an aspect of companion identity.

Pretty on-topic to me from what I've gathered. Could be my interpretation is off though.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:54 .

[Dave of Canada]

BrotherWarth wrote...

This conversation got really weird. We have Exile saying everyone should like every game. Maria saying games shouldn't be violent, then saying she likes violence. And the last few pages...

You are now entering... Night Springs.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 28 décembre 2010 - 06:58 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

DnD was based on tabletop wargames. I hate-hate-hate the emphasis on violence and acquisition of loot this has created, and I say this as someone who once spent 8 hours straight guild mates through Molten Core, slept, and then spent another 16 doing it.

Please don't remind me.
Please.

*reminded of C'thun trash, shudders*

Getting better loot to get better loot for better loot isn't a fun system when all you can strive for is more loot.

Thats why theres a story involved, otherwise you're just playing Diablo and its ilk. For people that seem to hate some aspects of RPG's so vehemently, I'm not sure why you guys torture yourselves with them.

I like being rewarded over the course of the game with new weapons or armor or spells, but its not the focal point of playing for me. making choices in the story that may affect various aspects of the plot is why I play RPG's. The customization aspects and loot is just a bonus.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

In Exile wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Really? I could name about a dozen people from these very boards that agree with me on that or have suggested as much. Why does DA have to be just like ME? Because Exile likes his precious voiced PC? Please. Want to play ME? Go play Mass effect. Dragon Age would do just fine standing on its own as its own entity, it hardly needed the Shepard make over to sell.

What about the dozen people from these very boards who agree with me and have suggested that DA:O implement ME features? 

And you're absolutely right DA2 should be like ME because I like some features from ME more. Dragon Age would be a better game for me if it had these features, and I'm under no obligation to advocate any other change than the change I like.

Like I said, go play ME if you love it's aspects so damn much. Not every game needs to be like ME. Gaming on the whole would get pretty boring pretty fast.

[Maria Caliban]

BrotherWarth wrote...

Maria saying games shouldn't be violent, then saying she likes violence.

Violence is like strawberry ice cream. I like it. It's sweet, it's yummy, and there are few times that you could suggest it to me and I'd say 'no.'

However, imagine that every restaurant you went to served strawberry ice cream, almost to the exclusion of everything else. A hundred different versions of strawberry ice cream for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and dessert.

At what point do you say, "Cut it out with the stupid ***** strawberry ice cream. Give me something else. There are a couple thousand other meals you could possibly serve, why not just try one?!"

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 28 décembre 2010 - 07:02 .

[In Exile]

BrotherWarth wrote...

This conversation got really weird. We have Exile saying everyone should like every game. Maria saying games shouldn't be violent, then saying she likes violence. And the last few pages...

I'm not saying that. Like Shorts said, I'm saying that "I like this feature the best" is absolutely a good enough reason for me to advocate that it's in every single game. That's the kind of thing I like, and as a consumer I have a right to push for any product to satisfy my taste.

[upsettingshorts]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Like I said, go play ME if you love it's aspects so damn much. Not every game needs to be like ME. Gaming on the whole would get pretty boring pretty fast.

If you like DAO more than DA2, then skip the latter and go back to playing the former.  It's the same argument. 

In Exile wrote...

Like Shorts said, I'm saying that "I like this feature the best" is absolutely a good enough reason for me to advocate that it's in every single game. That's the kind of thing I like, and as a consumer I have a right to push for any product to satisfy my taste.

Yep.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 28 décembre 2010 - 07:00 .

[In Exile]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Like I said, go play ME if you love it's aspects so damn much. Not every game needs to be like ME. Gaming on the whole would get pretty boring pretty fast.

"Like I said, go play BG, or BGII, or IWD, or IWD2 or Fallout or Fallout 2 if you love it's aspects so damn much. Not every game needs to be like BG, or BGII, or IWD, or IWD2 of Fallout or Fallout 2." 

You've got at least 4 games with the features you like, if not more. Go play them, and stop advocating for our modern games to represent your taste.

If every game had the features I liked, it would be an awesome ride for me. It might suck for you, but explain again why I should care?

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Like I said, go play ME if you love it's aspects so damn much. Not every game needs to be like ME. Gaming on the whole would get pretty boring pretty fast.

If you like DAO more than DA2, then skip the latter and go back to playing the former.  It's the same argument. 

Not really because I wouldn't want every game to be DA:O either.  VO's work for ME for what they were trying to do. As a throwback at least in Origins it wouldn't have worked well, the way Fallout NV was designed it wouldn't prolly work all that well. Having a voiced protagonist doesn't make everything instantly better just because InExile likes that as a feature.

And I still disagree with you about static outfits. For what you lose, you gain very little, oooo yay I get to stare at Isabella with no pants for 30 hours, WOW WE GAINED SO MUCH!  sorry I just don't buy it.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

In Exile wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Like I said, go play ME if you love it's aspects so damn much. Not every game needs to be like ME. Gaming on the whole would get pretty boring pretty fast.

"Like I said, go play BG, or BGII, or IWD, or IWD2 or Fallout or Fallout 2 if you love it's aspects so damn much. Not every game needs to be like BG, or BGII, or IWD, or IWD2 of Fallout or Fallout 2." 

You've got at least 4 games with the features you like, if not more. Go play them, and stop advocating for our modern games to represent your taste.

If every game had the features I liked, it would be an awesome ride for me. It might suck for you, but explain again why I should care?

Oblivion? Modern game, no voiced protagonist, sold well,  DA:O? Same thing,  Fallout New Vegas? Same thing.

The arguement you're making that if a game doesn't have a voiced protagonist that it doesn't qualify as modern is a stretch to say the least.

[Matchy Pointy]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Like I said, go play ME if you love it's aspects so damn much. Not every game needs to be like ME. Gaming on the whole would get pretty boring pretty fast.

If you like DAO more than DA2, then skip the latter and go back to playing the former.  It's the same argument. 

Not really because I wouldn't want every game to be DA:O either.  VO's work for ME for what they were trying to do. As a throwback at least in Origins it wouldn't have worked well, the way Fallout NV was designed it wouldn't prolly work all that well. Having a voiced protagonist doesn't make everything instantly better just because InExile likes that as a feature.

And I still disagree with you about static outfits. For what you lose, you gain very little, oooo yay I get to stare at Isabella with no pants for 30 hours, WOW WE GAINED SO MUCH!  sorry I just don't buy it.

We're back at the pants again? millions of peoples around the world and in history have gone without pants, and some even conquered most of their knows worl without them. If it worked for them it can work for Isabela. As for the VO thing, other love it as much as you seem to hate it, and it's our right to do so as well.

[upsettingshorts]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Not really because I wouldn't want every game to be DA:O either. 

That's not the argument. 

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Having a voiced protagonist doesn't make everything instantly better just because InExile likes that as a feature.

It makes everything instantly  better for In Exile, whose opinions are the only ones he should care about.

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

And I still disagree with you about static outfits. For what you lose, you gain very little, oooo yay I get to stare at Isabella with no pants for 30 hours, WOW WE GAINED SO MUCH!  sorry I just don't buy it.

You gain very little.  You don't have to buy it to simply comprehend that others do.

[In Exile]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
Oblivion? Modern game, no voiced protagonist, sold well,  DA:O? Same thing,  Fallout New Vegas? Same thing.

The arguement you're making that if a game doesn't have a voiced protagonist that it doesn't qualify as modern is a stretch to say the least.

I'll give you a gold star if you quote me on where I said modern games didn't have these features, or where I mentioned VO at all in this entire conversation.

[nightcobra]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Like I said, go play ME if you love it's aspects so damn much. Not every game needs to be like ME. Gaming on the whole would get pretty boring pretty fast.

If you like DAO more than DA2, then skip the latter and go back to playing the former.  It's the same argument. 

Not really because I wouldn't want every game to be DA:O either.  VO's work for ME for what they were trying to do. As a throwback at least in Origins it wouldn't have worked well, the way Fallout NV was designed it wouldn't prolly work all that well. Having a voiced protagonist doesn't make everything instantly better just because InExile likes that as a feature.

And I still disagree with you about static outfits. For what you lose, you gain very little, oooo yay I get to stare at Isabella with no pants for 30 hours, WOW WE GAINED SO MUCH!  sorry I just don't buy it.

to me, it also doubles as a solution to the clipping issues that i guess it would most likely be a resource consuming devil to accomodate every companion's outfit whenever they try to interact with their surrounding environment during dialog or cutscenes.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

scyphozoa wrote...

I've said it before and I'll probably say it again. I think insisting that design changes you don't agree with are being made specifically to appeal to a larger demographic or sell more units is an insult to the creative integrity of game developers. Are these veteran game designers not entitled to make design changes based on what they genuinely believe to be an improvement? Is it so simple to just say "I disagree with it so its being done out of greed."

I would hope we could get a little bit more thoughtful of rhetoric going by now.

I don't know, are they making these sweeping changes because they truly beleive it's better? Or because they're on a 18 month schdule and doing things like ME2 was far easier to pull off due to time/budget/work involved?

[AlanC9]

Monica83 wrote...
 But kill and rewrite an entire game its like first play doom as a shooter and later play doom ala super mario...

Good thing Bio didn't do anything of the sort, then.

[upsettingshorts]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

I don't know, are they making these sweeping changes because they truly beleive it's better?

Are you capable of accepting this explanation? Or simply offering it as evidence that you're aware an alternative explanation to yours exists?

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 28 décembre 2010 - 07:12 .