495 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I understand In Exile's position even if it's one I disagree with. More than my disagreement, however, is the simple problem that it makes conversation impossible. There are a few elements of the game where I hold my opinion as being equal to 1 and anything different is equal to 0. (I assume most can guess what those might be.) It's not something I use for every element and certainly not every element of every game.

I don't think my opinion is better than any other. I just think that if someone stood up and said: I want silent PC in, and my justification is that silent PC makes the game better for me, that's a great reason to advocate for silent PC.

That's, really, all the reason any of us need to advocate for any feature.

Though the cynical part of me thinks is fine for In Exile to retreat to that position as it wasn't as though much actual conversation was happening on this thread.

I was just annoyed at the idea that "you have ME" is any kind of coherent response to the issue of what features should or should not be in DA2.

We all have features we like. We should all advocate for features we like. It doesn't really matter what the game is.

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I can't possibly be the only one who
notices subtle language like this being used all the time.   If I
enter one of my really hostile, snarky moods seemingly out of "nowhere"
- assume I've read way too much of this kind of thing and need to
vent. 

The thing that bothers me about it is that it always involves a projection of what other people think my tastes ought to be, without ever bothering to appreciate the nuance in my position.

I like PC VO and custom apperances, because I like my PCs to stand out from the world, and within party I want my NPCs to stand out from each other.

I don't like shooters as much as other types of games. I'll play a shooter, and it'll be a nice distraction, but it doesn't compare with turn-based hex-based gameplay. Like Dragon Age Journeys, which I honestly would have paid for a full version of.

Modifié par In Exile, 28 décembre 2010 - 08:17 .

[hexaligned]

Dave of Canada wrote...

relhart wrote...

The question of violence is interesting, I see it more as a matter of needing some sort of conflict however.   What would you have besides combat?  A game revolving around political maneuvering? Around internal moral or spirtitual struggles?  I'd most likely be willing to spend money on games like that, if just to support the devs at an atttempt at originality if nothign else, I'm not sure how well they would sell in the mainstream however.

Alternatives to combat is always nice, I forget the game but there was one where you needed to get an artifact in some temple or something. Here were your options:
Do you fight through the temple, killing all who stand between you and the artifact?
Do you sneak through the temple, hiding in the shadows and going in and out without being detected? (if detected, resort to combat)
Do you bluff your way past everybody through dialogue?

It made the quest a lot more fun, I snuck my way into the chamber with dialogue and then snuck half way through and fought off the guards after being detected. It was a lot more fun than just forcing violence / sneaking or dialogue as the only solution. Though with the Dragon Age system, I don't see this working as well.

Ah, ok, as an alternative yeah.  I think Drakensang 2 handled it decently, a huge percentage of the battles in that game could be avoided if you managed to talk your way out of them, and for once, you actually got decent rewards for doing so.  I was envisioning a game with no combat whatsoever, for instance in DAO's setting, playing as a court member of the landsmeet, after the kings death.  Or for DA2, playing as a chantry "priest" (or whatever it is they have)  and having a more metaphysical struggle, trying to hold off  and undermine the Quanri beliefs after the invasion.  Games that would be 100% dialogue and choice based in other words.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

games like that for you to gobble up.

I can't possibly be the only one who notices subtle language like this being used all the time.   If I enter one of my really hostile, snarky moods seemingly out of "nowhere" - assume I've read way too much of this kind of thing and need to vent. 

Don't tell me you're one of those PC folks that gets offended at a drop of a hat Angry. It's not like Brock was dropping fbombs or anything that would actually be offensive.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

In Exile wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

I understand In Exile's position even if it's one I disagree with. More than my disagreement, however, is the simple problem that it makes conversation impossible. There are a few elements of the game where I hold my opinion as being equal to 1 and anything different is equal to 0. (I assume most can guess what those might be.) It's not something I use for every element and certainly not every element of every game.

I don't think my opinion is better than any other. I just think that if someone stood up and said: I want silent PC in, and my justification is that silent PC makes the game better for me, that's a great reason to advocate for silent PC.

That's, really, all the reason any of us need to advocate for any feature.

Though the cynical part of me thinks is fine for In Exile to retreat to that position as it wasn't as though much actual conversation was happening on this thread.

I was just annoyed at the idea that "you have ME" is any kind of coherent response to the issue of what features should or should not be in DA2.

We all have features we like. We should all advocate for features we like. It doesn't really matter what the game is.

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I can't possibly be the only one who
notices subtle language like this being used all the time.   If I
enter one of my really hostile, snarky moods seemingly out of "nowhere"
- assume I've read way too much of this kind of thing and need to
vent. 

The thing that bothers me about it is that it always involves a projection of what other people think my tastes ought to be, without ever bothering to appreciate the nuance in my position.

I like PC VO and custom apperances, because I like my PCs to stand out from the world, and within party I want my NPCs to stand out from each other.

I don't like shooters as much as other types of games. I'll play a shooter, and it'll be a nice distraction, but it doesn't compare with turn-based hex-based gameplay. Like Dragon Age Journeys, which I honestly would have paid for a full version of.

I think the point was just what Brock said, you guys have every title under the sun now doing exactly what you're looking for with Voice overs, and fast actiony combat. While those of us who had kinda hoped DA would stay more along the lines of a the tradition CRPG that really isn't being made alot these days get stomped on and thrown under the bus.

[MerinTB]

I considered entering this discussion after reading the last several pages...

but someone once said that "insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting different results" so...

also, I'm currently excited for DA2 and I don't want people's arguments ruining that for me again...
AND I'd rather play some Soulstorm, so I'll save us all sometime -

*ahem*
I disagree with In Exile on his interests, and somewhat on how he experesses himself, but I'd probably spend some time debating with him in which we both continue to further misunderstand each other but I kind of feel like he's being honest in his intent so I'd keep trying.

I'd try discussing with Upsettingshorts what he's talking about, but at some point his dropping into snark would frustrate me to the point that I'd start losing some of my cool...

I'd be agreeing most with Brockololly even though he and I are drifting to opposite sides of our views on DA2, and I never seen him really cross the line too much.

CoS Sarah Jinstar crosses the line all the time and is quite adamant in her views and arguing her point with no pulling punches (or often tact) but I see her as my evil side saying things I never want to say, but deep down the hidden internet troll that we all have wishes I would say.  I'll rarely call her on it as she makes the points I want to make and draws MOST of the ire of those who I disagree with.  She's my tank, I guess, drawing the aggro.

Maria has lately been discussing very politely and intelligently, so I can understand why people like her.  I'm still avoiding directly communicating with her, however, as I'd rather not get into a fight and I really feel for some reason it'd end up there.  Not her fault.

Dave of Canada ... yeah, again, the snark is more than I can personally handle.  That doesn't make him right or wrong, good or bad... just someone whom I'd rather not try discussing things with.  He's probably better of not having to deal with me as well.

anyone else it would be a case by case basis, but these are the people active in this thread that I've formed "views" on.  Take those "views" with a healthy helping of salt, mind you.

---

There - now everyone can make up what I'd say about this, if they care, as whatever each person would come up with would be how they'd interpret what I say regardless of what I wrote anyway.

---

Oh, yeah - IMO, DA2 is affected as much by the ME (note - not 2, just ME)  / JE syndrome that is BioWare as a whole.  I liked Jade Empire and I love Mass Effect, so this isn't from a place of disliking those games... but the direction from Baldur's Gate to Jade Empire to Mass Effect is BioWare moving their games in a direction that I, personally, do not overall like. *shrug*  And that's said while simultaneously admitting I love Mass Effect, the series.

So I think there is a ME / JE syndrome, but what I mean is mostly likely NOT what the OP meant, and it'd take too long to explain, and as I said I don't want to get into it so -

feel free to agree with, tear apart, or ignore as you see fit.

I'm off to play Soulstorm and hang out with my daughter.   Carry on!

[PrinceOfFallout13]

to avoid much of the stupid pointless definition of a crpg and all the other garbage arguments where people force their opinion on to others



greece,rome, and the spartan soldiers didnt wear any pants and used skirts and they are known to be one of the most successful empires in history so the whole issabela pants thing complaint is moronic

[Demx]

Bigdoser wrote...

Siradix wrote...

Russalka wrote...

Is this thing going on for the sake of just arguing by now? Has it gone beyond pizza-toppings yet?

It will continue even till after the game is release. Since there are people out there that feel that Dragon Age 2 has taken too much from the Mass Effect series.

What difference will that make? Also if dragon age 2 sells well which I will think will really happen bioware may keep to the same formula.

Why are you asking me? If I had to guess, people feel that their voices can be heard on the forums because of how active Bioware is with the community here. There are people who want things to stay the same as they were in DA:O, and they will voice their opinions. As for keeping the same formula, I believe Dragon Age: Origins sold pretty well. So your theory on keeping the same formula has holes.

[Maria Caliban]

In Exile wrote...

I don't think my opinion is better than any other. I just think that if someone stood up and said: I want silent PC in, and my justification is that silent PC makes the game better for me, that's a great reason to advocate for silent PC.

That's, really, all the reason any of us need to advocate for any feature.

I actually wrote something about this in another thread. I hope you don't mind if I c+p.

"

RifuloftheWest wrote...

I'm a little fuzzy on that line. Are you suggesting that for a critique to be valid, it cannot be motivated by a subjective creative preference?

Sure it can, but it needs more than personal preference if it's going to carry weight as a critique.

I like female warriors. The idea of warrior (tough, strong, physical) in a woman appeals to me. I hoped Cauthrean might be a companion and was disappointed when she wasn't. I expressed that disappointment on the board.

However, I never suggested that Dragon Age: Origins was less of a game for not catering to that specific interest. There's a difference between "Things Maria Likes" and "Things that BioWare should put in all its games."

It's the same with the rivalry system in DA II. I have this almost obsessive need to get companions to like me. If there's a measurement of like, I want it at 100%. I often create PCs who are willing to manipulate others if they find them useful simply so I can act this out without breaking character.

When I heard about the new friendship/rivalry system, I panicked. No loading my companions with gifts so they love and adore me? Please, say it isn't so!

After reading David and Mary's explanation of the system, I have to agree that it's better than what was in Origins. It doesn't make me happy, but a companion system built for Maria would be a pretty sh*tty system."

I was just annoyed at the idea that "you have ME" is any kind of coherent response to the issue of what features should or should not be in DA2.

Indeed. I am often fascinated by your ability to stay in an argument for page after page after page. I lack discussion stamina.

[In Exile]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
I think the point was just what Brock said, you guys have every title under the sun now doing exactly what you're looking for with Voice overs, and fast actiony combat. While those of us who had kinda hoped DA would stay more along the lines of a the tradition CRPG that really isn't being made alot these days get stomped on and thrown under the bus.

How many games with PC VO and character customization exist beyond Mass Effect? Alpha Protocol and the Witcher fix name, gender and apperance.

...And that's it. Those are the sum total of games available.

Whereas silent PC has Oblivion, Elder Scroll's V now, Fallout 3 and New Vegas.... the list goes on and on.

As for the combat, do you even read the things I say? I don't want action-oriented combat. I mean, I explicitly just said I prefer turn-based combat.

[upsettingshorts]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Don't tell me you're one of those PC folks that gets offended at a drop of a hat Angry. It's not like Brock was dropping fbombs or anything that would actually be offensive.

Political correctness is a different animal entirely. 

This is more of a "I see what you did there" that I find insulting, not offensive.

Swear words - your counterexample - do not offend me.

MerinTB wrote...

I'd try discussing with Upsettingshorts what he's talking about, but at some point his dropping into snark would frustrate me to the point that I'd start losing some of my cool...

I drop into snark out of the same frustration that leads you to lose your cool.  Which is what I was referring to with my language comment above.  Perhaps we're annoyed by different things - but then, one of the times you got mad at me was when I chose less-than-detached-objectivity to describe my views of a camera, so maybe not.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 28 décembre 2010 - 08:30 .

[In Exile]

Maria Caliban wrote...
I actually wrote something about this in another thread. I hope you don't mind if I c+p. 

Naw. I agree with you. I wouldn't have brought what my tastes are into it if I didn't feel the need to point out that the argument that "you already have ME" is silly, since a) liking some features doesn't mean liking all features and that's two titles; even if I loved those titles, there are only two like them compared to how many 'traditional' cRPGs again?

Indeed. I am often fascinated by your ability to stay in an argument for page after page after page. I lack discussion stamina.

It's summon pendantic lawyer +5. I have an incredible tolerance for this sort of thing.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

MerinTB wrote...

I considered entering this discussion after reading the last several pages...

but someone once said that "insanity is doing the same thing, over and over, and expecting different results" so...

also, I'm currently excited for DA2 and I don't want people's arguments ruining that for me again...
AND I'd rather play some Soulstorm, so I'll save us all sometime -

*ahem*
I disagree with In Exile on his interests, and somewhat on how he experesses himself, but I'd probably spend some time debating with him in which we both continue to further misunderstand each other but I kind of feel like he's being honest in his intent so I'd keep trying.

I'd try discussing with Upsettingshorts what he's talking about, but at some point his dropping into snark would frustrate me to the point that I'd start losing some of my cool...

I'd be agreeing most with Brockololly even though he and I are drifting to opposite sides of our views on DA2, and I never seen him really cross the line too much.

CoS Sarah Jinstar crosses the line all the time and is quite adamant in her views and arguing her point with no pulling punches (or often tact) but I see her as my evil side saying things I never want to say, but deep down the hidden internet troll that we all have wishes I would say.  I'll rarely call her on it as she makes the points I want to make and draws MOST of the ire of those who I disagree with.  She's my tank, I guess, drawing the aggro.

Maria has lately been discussing very politely and intelligently, so I can understand why people like her.  I'm still avoiding directly communicating with her, however, as I'd rather not get into a fight and I really feel for some reason it'd end up there.  Not her fault.

Dave of Canada ... yeah, again, the snark is more than I can personally handle.  That doesn't make him right or wrong, good or bad... just someone whom I'd rather not try discussing things with.  He's probably better of not having to deal with me as well.

anyone else it would be a case by case basis, but these are the people active in this thread that I've formed "views" on.  Take those "views" with a healthy helping of salt, mind you.

---

There - now everyone can make up what I'd say about this, if they care, as whatever each person would come up with would be how they'd interpret what I say regardless of what I wrote anyway.

---

Oh, yeah - IMO, DA2 is affected as much by the ME (note - not 2, just ME)  / JE syndrome that is BioWare as a whole.  I liked Jade Empire and I love Mass Effect, so this isn't from a place of disliking those games... but the direction from Baldur's Gate to Jade Empire to Mass Effect is BioWare moving their games in a direction that I, personally, do not overall like. *shrug*  And that's said while simultaneously admitting I love Mass Effect, the series.

So I think there is a ME / JE syndrome, but what I mean is mostly likely NOT what the OP meant, and it'd take too long to explain, and as I said I don't want to get into it so -

feel free to agree with, tear apart, or ignore as you see fit.

I'm off to play Soulstorm and hang out with my daughter.   Carry on!

In my defense dear Merin, I'm not intently trying to troll at all, I'm just a very blunt person by nature and not at all PC, and to be honest, I don't care about offending people because in this day and age, people tend to get offended so easily at the silliest things it's not worth the effort.

Though I'd gladly be your tank anyday!

[darth_lopez]

thedistortedchild wrote...

darth_lopez wrote...

In Exile wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...

Yes, why give all the characters their own unique design when you can just make them wear Generic Armour #57?

Choice man! Let's say you're hanging out with someone religious. They keep kosher. You say - eat this pork. Not letting you do that is take away your choice! Why should the writers tell you what is character consistent or not?

Now,
on a serious note, I do think we ought to have more than one custom
outift per companion. The problem with that is resources. But that would
be the ideal. That a single custom outfit is much better (IMO) than
several generic ones does not mean having a choice of custom outfits is
not even better than that.

have not read the rest of the thread, nor do i really intend to. But trying to approach this from the ME POV here at least make sure the custom Outfits look reasonable. It's understandable to want a custom outfit, but look at ME, Maranda who has apparently managed to fashion Mass Effect Fields around tight fitting super clothes same with jacob but he actually has shoulder pads, Both Miranda and Samara have clear Exposures where a Kinetic Barrier failure should kill, on Subject Zero what the bojangles is generating all the Kinetic Barriers or does she only use a biotic barrier? and then what the duece happens when that goes down?  she's like insta death i mean don't even bring up Workign Void with Miranda Jack or Samara. Zanes just as bad at least the alternative appearance pack gave him something that remotely resembled workable armor the same applies to kasumi. OUt of 12 characters, only Mordin, Garrus, Tali, Zaaeed, and Wrex (legion as well)  have workable and logical custom appearances. It would be ok if they had 2 custom appearances(1 combat 1 for onboard the Normandy) But they don't jus the same thing and as varried as they get with the loyalty suits is a collor change.

So in short what i'm trying to get at here, is So long as the outfit makes sense situationally it's fine and i'd be cool with it but in the event that they don't make the custom suits look situationally correct or at least workable in combat, that's gonna cause some problems for alot of people. Defining a character and setting their tastes through a custom clothing selections is fine just make the selections reasonably intelligent options..

Pretty much everything Darth said <3
 I have no problem with set outfits as long as they are situationally appropriate. For example, Jack and Miranda only wearing oxygen masks and lycra in the void of space, while Shep ware a full helmet and has his/her whole body covered. 

exactly so long as they don't pull anything like that in DA 2 and the suits can actually have stat changes, unlike the ME 2 suits. I think most people will be pleased. Granted there is something distinctly fun about managing a teams load out armor and all.

as someone said, i believe in exile, in recent pages not everygame is FO BG NWN? (i'm recalling from memory of what i read). Well ME 1 should also be in that list sorry to bring it up but ME 1 did have a traditional Inventory system and a typical power system. the only thing different from the RPG stance that ME 1 offered was an even more cinematic POV (i.e. epic cutscenes a truly epic story and amazing voice acting with the dialogue wheel) It was at least for me the First and best shooter RPG i've had ever played at the time(after playing fallout 3 and me 2 it's dropped to 2nd best with ME 2 shooting mechanics in the lead) with a decent cover system.  ME 1 brought revolutionary tactical ideas to RPGs(particularly cover systems which i'm pretty sure wasn't done till ME) not individual booties for squad mates.

ME 2 Did have  individual 'booties' and it started to stray away from RPG land into the territory of an on the rails shooter with RPG elements. Thus ME 2 must be re-classified for debate purposes as a Pseudo RPG. Now don't get me wrong i'm not saying that the individual suits are the cause of the slight shift in ME gameplay But due to the Individual Suits and Lack of inventory ME 2 has been deprived of a very important RPG element mostly variety. Every RPG has had Variety-including square enix RPGs-the Fallout Series, DA:O, ME 1, NWN, BG Series, KotOR Series, Elder Scrolls, and yes even Alpha Protocol All have 1 very important thing in Common and that's their massive inventories and sheer variety of items and enemies. In ME 2 we saw a distinct lack of variety a distinct lack of inventory infact the inventory is nearly non-existent and the lack of armor choices for both player and NPC Party Members.

So if you are just refrencing Inventory/Item keeping systems and customization Systems you've outted almost every Major and Minor RPG created through your comparrison. Very Few good RPGs exist where inventory was minimized. even fewer epic RPGs and then you get the Pseudo RPG Mass Effect 2.

So whether ME 2's lack of inventory is due to lack of party customization we shall yet see but i'd say it's a liklihood you should consider. as out of the RPGs listed i'm Pretty Sure ME 2 has the smallest inventory and some of the most illogical clothing for it's characters simply because it looks nice on them.

[upsettingshorts]

You are not an organization. This is not politics.

This isn't about political correctness. It is about respect.

I'm certainly not perfect when it comes to having respect for other posters, but I regret my outbursts - I don't embrace them.

Political correctness is an artificial construct of institutionalized neutrality. Politeness is a personal choice.

[Russalka]

"Pixels in a video game" is a mantra which I think everyone on this forum should adopt.

Modifié par Russalka, 28 décembre 2010 - 08:58 .

[Maria Caliban]

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

greece,rome, and the spartan soldiers didnt wear any pants and used skirts and they are known to be one of the most successful empires in history so the whole issabela pants thing complaint is moronic

I think if Isabela wore something like this, there's be less complaining about her outfit:



It seems to be a combination of Frustration over static outfits + Blatant sexiness + Impractical for battle attire, and not inherently the lack of pants.

MerinTB wrote...

Maria has lately been discussing very politely and intelligently, so I can understand why people like her.  I'm still avoiding directly communicating with her, however, as I'd rather not get into a fight and I really feel for some reason it'd end up there.  Not her fault.

Yeah, don't know what that's about. Maybe the Miranda avatar.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 28 décembre 2010 - 08:51 .

[Schneidend]

Sheesh, page count almost doubled while I slept in.



As I, too, dig the idea of "warrior women," and the fact that Wonder Woman's armor is molding to nigh perfect breasts, that picture strikes me as "blatant sexiness."



And, as much as I share the frustration over static outfits (I'd much prefer companions using the same meshes/textures and just having unique faces), I still don't think Isabela's attire is at all impractical for a rogue/pirate/duelist/gyspsy.

[Maria Caliban]

Schneidend wrote...

As I, too, dig the idea of "warrior women," and the fact that Wonder Woman's armor is molding to nigh perfect breasts, that picture strikes me as "blatant sexiness."

Do you see any difference of presentation between the Wonder Woman armor I posted and Miranda or Isabela's outfit?

FemShep's armor also was molded to breasts, would you consider it 'blatant sexiness?'

[KyleOrdrum]

Winter Wraith wrote...

Do people make a habit of dressing their friends and work colleagues?

Umm...it's called employee uniforms.  Most businesses have them, and kinda make you wear the most horrible outfits imaginable.

[Ortaya Alevli]

KyleOrdrum wrote...

Winter Wraith wrote...

Do people make a habit of dressing their friends and work colleagues?

Umm...it's called employee uniforms.  Most businesses have them, and kinda make you wear the most horrible outfits imaginable.

Except you do not put them on your friends and peers. People usually do not tend to wear uniforms unless they are paid for the job.

If Hawke is going to "hire" his companions for sovereigns, however, that is another story.

[Da_Lion_Man]

Succesful topic is succesful!

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Da_Lion_Man wrote...

Succesful topic is succesful!

I got no work done today at work, I'm blaming the success of this thread!

[Winter Wraith]

KyleOrdrum wrote...
Umm...it's called employee uniforms.  Most businesses have them, and kinda make you wear the most horrible outfits imaginable.

Hence why I used work colleague. Employer and employee are very different things; you work for your boss, not with your boss.

Regardless, I wasn't aware Hawke was employing these people to be his/her friend.

[Pwnsaur]

Looks like Sarah has replaced me as the target for an assemblage of bombardment.. Basically, I find these forums to be teeming with impertinent charlatans employing mob tactics to asphyxiate the erringly perceived dissenters of ratiocination.

FWIW... I think the individuality of the companions could be preserved with a hybrid system similar to the one utilized in ME1.. A complete adoption leaves little room for fans of both camps to peacefully exist (as this forum clearly promulgates) and should not be the series' terminus. Hopefully, this is pro tem and we will get a solution to conciliate both sides in DA3.

Modifié par Pwnsaur, 28 décembre 2010 - 10:45 .

[Altima Darkspells]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

As I, too, dig the idea of "warrior women," and the fact that Wonder Woman's armor is molding to nigh perfect breasts, that picture strikes me as "blatant sexiness."

Do you see any difference of presentation between the Wonder Woman armor I posted and Miranda or Isabela's outfit?

FemShep's armor also was molded to breasts, would you consider it 'blatant sexiness?'

To be fair we don't know that Wonder Woman's breasts are perfectly formed in that armor from that picture alone (though we do from seeing her without all the armor).  It's not out of the question for ceremonial armor to, ahem, exaggerate certain features.

The picture posted by Maria is no more sexist than the skin-tight spandex showing off god-like perfection in physique that most other super-humans adopt.

Of course, Wonder Woman has the excuse that she's, well, a goddess.  Or an Amazon with soul-tugging, invulnerable, omni-destructive god equipment.  Miranda--while having a bit of leeway due to biotics--does not have the same excuse, especially since the player went through the whole of ME1 learning why armor is needed (and then Bio used the whole geth-weaponry excuse for ammo to, in turn, make weapons even MORE dangerous).  Isabela has even less, since as far as we know, she's just your average, ship-less pirate running around in her small-clothes.