85 réponses à ce sujet

[MajesticJazz]

Alienmorph wrote...

Kim Shepard wrote...



Of course I'm glad that my favorite squadmates were in ME2.



The fact that they can die only means that they can't be required for the story to continue in ME3. Out of 16(?) squadmates over both games, the only one who is actually required is Liara. That doesn't mean the others can't, or shouldn't, be squadmates in ME3. It doesn't mean that they can't make a difference in the story. And it doesn't mean that the reunions were any less awesome because they happened in ME2 instead of ME3. All of the old squadmates had a reunion with Shepard in ME2, even if they didn't join the team, and Wrex's was one of my favorites.

You hit the point Kim. The foreshadow of this thread is "Poor you Tali/Garrus fans... you'll never see again you favourite characters 'cause they weren't put in a safe position like Liara!" Sadly, Liara's actually in one of the most dangerous position of the galaxy as the new Shadow Broker... she can't die in ME2, but she's far from be safe in the final chapter too imoh. And if BW didn't want to bring back at least some of the ME2 squadmates, then they didn't do the game centering it so much on the interaction with them and bulding so much subplots around them. Even if they'll all be NpCized, and still I don't think so, surely they'll have some relevance.

I think you are misunderstanding the whole point of this thread. This isn't a thread about characters being safe in ME3 because they weren't in ME2. No, this thread is about characters having a more "defined" role in ME3 because they were saved specifically for that.

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...



I can't help but feel that the Garrus and Tali fans may have ultimately shot themselves in the proverbial foot by demanding that they return in ME2...

This is exactly my thought as well. By keeping a mystery around what Ashley/Kaiden is doing and just mentioning that they're doing top secret work for the Alliance in ME2, that sets the stage for something really REALLY huge for Ashley/Kaiden in ME3 and even more if you romanced them in ME1. Liara is already in an epic role as the Shadow Broker and who knows what they might do with Wrex.



With Tali/Garrus, because they were just another squadmate in ME2, it would be unrealistic to have them suddenly in some expansive/epic role in ME3 with a lot of emphasis.

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Nice. Its another Tali/Garrus bashing, Ashley/Kaiden/Wrex/liara love thread. Gotta love those.

Modifié par Mr.BlazenGlazen, 28 décembre 2010 - 04:05 .

[Mr.House]

Tali and Garrus will have no plot importance in ME3, hell we will be lucky if they are even squadmates.

[Zulu_DFA]

BioWare should have totally give Garrus and Tali Wrex's treatment in ME2. First of all, to make the squad smaller and more interactive. Cutting down Tali, Garrus, Grunt and Kasumi would make up for additional 50% of development resources for every of the remaining 8 squadmates, which would possibly have doubled their "quality".

Garrus should have had a cameo in place of Cpt. Bailey (who is a redundant character for the trilogy anyway), where he would have demonstrated some heavy consequences of Shepard's "mentoring" him in ME1.

Tali should have had a cameo during Shepard's visit to the migrant fleet, (which should have been Legion's loyalty mission), where she would have presented us with some heavy consequences of Shepard's giving/denying her the Geth data in ME1.

And this way both of them could be considered for a return in full capacity for the final part of the trilogy.

As it is, Garrus' recruitment+loyalty mission subplot is worthy of a Van Damme movie and has nothing to do with the mass effect. And after that it was just calibrations and calibrations and calibrations.

And Tali's recrutment and loyalty missions had their virtues and whould be OK but for the acute case of daddy issues in the latter. Still, Tali practically carried a tag attached to her: "I am here solely because of my hips and the wet dreams of a few fanboys, and I don't care if you've been a ****** to me, I'll still let you scrog me if you want to". Tali and her fanboys are responsible for the riduculous crap of equating anyspecies/anyspecies romance to human/human romance in ME2, which alone disqualifies it from sci-fi genre.

In other words, both characters in ME2 are cheezy fan service and nothing more. And as such, they are  disservice  to their own ME1 selves. That's why I killed Tali with fire on my every playthrough except the very first, and eventually killed off Garrus as well. I don't want to see them in ME3 in any capacity, and will not be interested even in meta-game-youtube experience with them (unlike such characters as Mordin, Jack and Miranda, whom I have also killed off for different reasons).

They had potential to be among my "favorite half" of the characters in the series, but this potential was utterly wasted in ME2 and now they are near the bottom of my personal ME character rating.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 28 décembre 2010 - 04:55 .

[PrinceLionheart]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Nice. Its another Tali/Garrus bashing, Ashley/Kaiden/Wrex/liara love thread. Gotta love those.

Hardly anyone is bashing Tali or Garrus. 

[Sandbox47]

I... my mind can't grasp a mass effect without Garrus and Tali. Sorry, but as long as there's romance, Tali and Garrus I'm happy. They are the one team I know will devour anything. The rest are... amateurs but with pleasant surprises.

[Shadow_Soul]

I am happy both of them were in ME2. I like both of them in ME1 and even more so in ME2. They are 2 of my fave characters. ME just doesn't seem complete without certain characters in them. You have the bad*ss sniper and the smart tech. It wouldn't seem the same without them. So I was very happy to have them in ME2. Like I was happy Wrex and Liara are in it, and Ashley, even if I only saw her once and the whole time she was yelling at my Shep. XP

But really, I was thrilled when I was able to recruit Tali and when I found out Archangel was Garrus. ME2 wouldn't be the same with them gone. And that is why they live in every playthrough I have. So in hopes they are to return in ME3. =D

[Brass_Buckles]

As a Garrus fan, I can kind of see things both ways. On the one hand, we're not going to get an epic reunion where you get a big bro hug and catch up on what we've missed all these years.



On the other, we did get to chill with Garrus and Tali again, and fight side-by-side with them.



I wasn't around when ME2 was in development to beg for a return of Garrus and Tali, so I didn't get to shoot myself in the foot. But, I will say this: if your survivors get to be squadmates in ME3, with equal dev time to any new squaddies, that in itself will be epic. How cool would it be to have them in your squad the entire game through? To know that they had the chance of dying, but they didn't, and they'll be with you to the end? What bigger, better thing could they do besides save the galaxy?



To say that they can't do anything important now because they've been with you is also a fallacy. We don't know the span of time between ME2 and ME3, for starters. The team could have split ways again. They may be moving on with their lives. Chances are that ME3 Garrus will actually have listened to you in ME2, given his massive failure as a vigilante. He could be doing anything at this point. Tali has a good chance of becoming a leader among her people (let's hope she learns to actually inspire them to follow her by then...).



So basically, my answer is: We just don't know enough to assume either way that it was good or bad to have them be in ME2.



My guess, though? Because Garrus and Tali are extremely popular, and because Bioware knows this, if you didn't kill them off, they'll have an important role to play with their own continuing personal plots, even if it's just being part of the team that saves the galaxy from the Reapers.

[Mr.House]

A character who dies can not be vital to the plot. The suadmates in ME2 will either have a cameo, be temp squadmates at certain parts in the games or play a very small role. Ash/Kai and Wrex/Wreave are au unqe case.

If Kai dies, you have Ash and vise versa, same as Wrex/Wreave, thus Bioware can make those three characters important because they are interchangeble. This is not the case with the ME2 squadmates. Fan demand means nothing, should I remind people of Awakening and how it was Oghern who was the party member for the sole reason that he could not die in DAO unless you modded your game. People wanted Leli, Alistair or Morrigan but that did not happen.

The most Garrus and Tali, like all the other characters is a small sub plot, maybe a temp squadmate at one part and the continuation of there romance.

Modifié par Mr.House, 28 décembre 2010 - 10:51 .

[Quietness]

I think they will be there

Garrus doesnt have a lot going for him.. Tali on the other hands can/should be a pivotal figure for the geth stuff.which would at least for part of the game relegate her into a major non party npc.



I am hoping for more out of the VS/Wrex/Liara this time around as they had vastly less screen time than the other 2. (Liara more than the other 2 at least)

[Aeowyn]

Mr.House wrote...

A character who dies can not be vital to the plot. The suadmates in ME2 will either have a cameo, be temp squadmates at certain parts in the games or play a very small role. Ash/Kai and Wrex/Wreave are au unqe case.

If Kai dies, you have Ash and vise versa, same as Wrex/Wreave, thus Bioware can make those three characters important because they are interchangeble. This is not the case with the ME2 squadmates. Fan demand means nothing, should I remind people of Awakening and how it was Oghern who was the party member for the sole reason that he could not die in DAO unless you modded your game. People wanted Leli, Alistair or Morrigan but that did not happen.

The most Garrus and Tali, like all the other characters is a small sub plot, maybe a temp squadmate at one part and the continuation of there romance.

But with this logic Shepard will end up alone in ME3 having to gather an entire new squad. I just feel that Shepard won't really have time to run around and gather an entirely new squad in ME3 when the Reapers are attacking and more important things are in focus. Honestly, I hope that BioWare comes up with some solution that is a good balance between old squaddies who survived and new squaddies, because in the end, the only one I feel shot themselves in the foot is BioWare when they came up with the "suicide mission" - story.

[DCYNIGR8]

I liked having Tali and Garrus in ME2 and hope they are by Shepard's side in ME3.

It was good to have them in ME2 because they are two of the people Shepard can trust, who aren't Cerberus or some new mercenary/assassin/scientist/thief etc, being added to the squad. I also liked how their characters developed in ME2, especially Tali. Her character matured so much between games and I have to say after not being to crash hot on Tali's character in the original ME, after ME2 she is now by far one of my favorites.

Garrus and Tali were good choices to bring back as squad members into ME2, in my opinion anyway, they are two fan favorites and two of Shepard's greatest allies and friends. I'm sure they'll have an important role in ME3 since I am hoping they don't introduce too many new squad members (if any at all).

Modifié par DCYNIGR8, 28 décembre 2010 - 12:23 .

[Mims]

Has Garrus ever been plot relevant? To say fans doomed themselves by asking for him seems a bit silly, since he's never held that role. His connection to the plot is Shepard. While yes, that means he's easily killable without much impact. But that also means he's very easy to return to ME3 without even needing an alternative scenario if he died. He's either there, or he's not there.



I think it would be ridiculous to suggest Garrus and Tali would just vanish from ME3. Even using them as DLC characters is pretty much be a sure in to make bioware money. I'm pretty sure they enjoy money.

[Xilizhra]

I wish that there hadn't been a suicide mission in ME2, so that we wouldn't have to worry about this.

[Knickerus]

I think you're going to need a Quarian on the squad, but it might not be Tali in ME3. It's a possibility that she'll lead the fleet to help you out in your fight against the reapers if she was exonerated. While that would be extremely disappointing to me and the other Tali fans, it's much more likely.

I'm pretty sure that Garrus will be back in some aspect. He'll probably be one of the returning squaddies. He has absolutely no point outside of his existence on your team. All of his missions in ME1 and ME2 were just him getting revenge with your help. It's not like he can do anything else.

I will be EXTREMELY disappointed if Tali doesn't return as a Squad Member/LI in the next installment of the trilogy. I don't think she will, though.

[Xilizhra]

Well, it'd be quite bizarre for the relationship that you shared with your ME2 LI to not continue, if they're still alive. I'm betting that they'll at least have a presence.

[RiotLaFontaine]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

BioWare should have totally give Garrus and Tali Wrex's treatment in ME2. First of all, to make the squad smaller and more interactive. Cutting down Tali, Garrus, Grunt and Kasumi would make up for additional 50% of development resources for every of the remaining 8 squadmates, which would possibly have doubled their "quality".

Garrus should have had a cameo in place of Cpt. Bailey (who is a redundant character for the trilogy anyway), where he would have demonstrated some heavy consequences of Shepard's "mentoring" him in ME1.

Tali should have had a cameo during Shepard's visit to the migrant fleet, (which should have been Legion's loyalty mission), where she would have presented us with some heavy consequences of Shepard's giving/denying her the Geth data in ME1.

And this way both of them could be considered for a return in full capacity for the final part of the trilogy.

As it is, Garrus' recruitment+loyalty mission subplot is worthy of a Van Damme movie and has nothing to do with the mass effect. And after that it was just calibrations and calibrations and calibrations.

And Tali's recrutment and loyalty missions had their virtues and whould be OK but for the acute case of daddy issues in the latter. Still, Tali practically carried a tag attached to her: "I am here solely because of my hips and the wet dreams of a few fanboys, and I don't care if you've been a ****** to me, I'll still let you scrog me if you want to". Tali and her fanboys are responsible for the riduculous crap of equating anyspecies/anyspecies romance to human/human romance in ME2, which alone disqualifies it from sci-fi genre.

In other words, both characters in ME2 are cheezy fan service and nothing more. And as such, they are  disservice  to their own ME1 selves. That's why I killed Tali with fire on my every playthrough except the very first, and eventually killed off Garrus as well. I don't want to see them in ME3 in any capacity, and will not be interested even in meta-game-youtube experience with them (unlike such characters as Mordin, Jack and Miranda, whom I have also killed off for different reasons).

They had potential to be among my "favorite half" of the characters in the series, but this potential was utterly wasted in ME2 and now they are near the bottom of my personal ME character rating.

I'll keep this short.  Zulu, back when ME2 was announced you were fully on board and exited up until Liara and several other members were cut.  I find it humorous that you've somehow carried this resentment all this time.  If Liara and the others were in ME2, you would not be taking this stance that you're taking now.  What BW did with Garrus and Tali was NOT a disservice - their sustained and actually increased popularity shows otherwise.

[RiotLaFontaine]

darknoon5 wrote...

It's pretty much been confirmed that, to some extent, ME2 squadmates will return.

http://twitter.com/truffle

"Yes. RT @SirUlrichVL @truffle so I take it if I only have zaeed, kasumi and joker alive. That shep is in for a rough ride in ME3? :)"

I thank you for linking this to us - I don't know if it's gone unnoticed by others.

Also, there was mention back when a post-ME2, pre-ME3 panel was held that a "Keep the same team" phrase made an appearance, but it was based on interpretation as to whether it meant dev team or squad.

[jlb524]

Of course all surviving former squad mates will be included ME3 in some capacity. We have no idea how much face time potentially dead squad mates will get though.

[Mr.House]

Aeowyn wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

A character who dies can not be vital to the plot. The suadmates in ME2 will either have a cameo, be temp squadmates at certain parts in the games or play a very small role. Ash/Kai and Wrex/Wreave are au unqe case.

If Kai dies, you have Ash and vise versa, same as Wrex/Wreave, thus Bioware can make those three characters important because they are interchangeble. This is not the case with the ME2 squadmates. Fan demand means nothing, should I remind people of Awakening and how it was Oghern who was the party member for the sole reason that he could not die in DAO unless you modded your game. People wanted Leli, Alistair or Morrigan but that did not happen.

The most Garrus and Tali, like all the other characters is a small sub plot, maybe a temp squadmate at one part and the continuation of there romance.

But with this logic Shepard will end up alone in ME3 having to gather an entire new squad. I just feel that Shepard won't really have time to run around and gather an entirely new squad in ME3 when the Reapers are attacking and more important things are in focus. Honestly, I hope that BioWare comes up with some solution that is a good balance between old squaddies who survived and new squaddies, because in the end, the only one I feel shot themselves in the foot is BioWare when they came up with the "suicide mission" - story.

Not really, temp squadmates could work, plus 4 perma squadmates. If Garrus and Tali had a back up character like Wrex or they where similar to Ashley/Kaidan then they would be back for sure as a big character or a squadmate, This is not the case. They will have a very minor role in ME3, that's the downside to having them in your squad in ME2.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Garrus and Tali for ME3. Nuff said.
Edit: And they were totally right to be in ME2. They both took lessons in badassery. So much character development.
Now it's nuff said.

Modifié par Tasha vas Nar Rayya, 28 décembre 2010 - 07:02 .

[PrinceLionheart]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Of course all surviving former squad mates will be included ME3 in some capacity. We have no idea how much face time potentially dead squad mates will get though.

This. That's what I was referring to when I stated that Garrus and Tali fans have shot themselves in the foot. They will both be present, but their potential death could, and most likely will, limit their screentime or plot relevance.

This is something that Ashley or Kaidan, and Liara do not have to worry about. Especially when the only variables that are attached to those characters is the status of the romance, if we're considering Ashley and Kaidan to be a single interchangeable entity.

Wrex as well because Wreav can just as easily be interchangeable with him like Samara/Morinth.

[Collider]

LesEnfantsTerribles wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Of course all surviving former squad mates will be included ME3 in some capacity. We have no idea how much face time potentially dead squad mates will get though.

This. That's what I was referring to when I stated that Garrus and Tali fans have shot themselves in the foot. They will both be present, but their potential death could, and most likely will, limit their screentime or plot relevance.

This is something that Ashley or Kaidan, and Liara do not have to worry about. Especially when the only variables that are attached to those characters is the status of the romance, if we're considering Ashley and Kaidan to be a single interchangeable entity.

It's not as if every current fan was behind the vocal support on the forums prior to ME2's release. I also doubt that Garrus and Tali weren't going to be in the game had it not been for the exact amount of support they received. So far as we know, the fans only encouraged them to be romance options.

Also, at Garrus/Tali haters:

[-Skorpious-]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

BioWare should have totally give Garrus and Tali Wrex's treatment in ME2. First of all, to make the squad smaller and more interactive. Cutting down Tali, Garrus, Grunt and Kasumi would make up for additional 50% of development resources for every of the remaining 8 squadmates, which would possibly have doubled their "quality".

Why cut Grunt? He was one of the first squadmates anounced. And Kasumi isn't an issue, as her character was released in DLC months after ME2's release.

And besides, characters like Thane, Mordin, and Samara had equal (if not more) dialogue than Wrex and Garrus did in the original Mass Effect. I'm not supporting a large crew in ME3, but not every ME2 character suffered from the "calibration" syndrome.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Garrus should have had a cameo in place of Cpt. Bailey (who is a redundant character for the trilogy anyway), where he would have demonstrated some heavy consequences of Shepard's "mentoring" him in ME1.

Convincing Garrus to follow the renegade path in ME causes him to lose faith in C-sec. Why would he rejoin an organization he previously denounced?

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Tali should have had a cameo during Shepard's visit to the migrant fleet, (which should have been Legion's loyalty mission), where she would have presented us with some heavy consequences of Shepard's giving/denying her the Geth data in ME1.

Legion's sole purpose is to stop the "old machines" and their allies. Legion has no reason to attempt an negotiation of peace with the Quarians during the events of ME2.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

As it is, Garrus' recruitment+loyalty mission subplot is worthy of a Van Damme movie and has nothing to do with the mass effect. And after that it was just calibrations and calibrations and calibrations.

A) TIM sent you to recruit "Archangel". You did so, and he just happened to be Garrus. How is that not related to Mass Effect?

What does Thane's LM mission have to do with the overall story of Mass Effect? What about Samara's, Jacob's, or Miranda's respective LM's?

Zulu_DFA wrote...

And Tali's recrutment and loyalty missions had their virtues and whould be OK but for the acute case of daddy issues in the latter. Still, Tali practically carried a tag attached to her: "I am here solely because of my hips and the wet dreams of a few fanboys, and I don't care if you've been a ****** to me, I'll still let you scrog me if you want to". Tali and her fanboys are responsible for the riduculous crap of equating anyspecies/anyspecies romance to human/human romance in ME2, which alone disqualifies it from sci-fi genre.

Fan-feedback may have influenced Tali and Garrus' role as a LI, but Tali was featured in some of the earliest trailers released for ME2, thus, Bioware intended for Tali/Garrus to be squadmates before their vocal fanbases asked for their return.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

In other words, both characters in ME2 are cheezy fan service and nothing more. And as such, they are  disservice  to their own ME1 selves. That's why I killed Tali with fire on my every playthrough except the very first, and eventually killed off Garrus as well. I don't want to see them in ME3 in any capacity, and will not be interested even in meta-game-youtube experience with them (unlike such characters as Mordin, Jack and Miranda, whom I have also killed off for different reasons).

See above comment.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

They had potential to be among my "favorite half" of the characters in the series, but this potential was utterly wasted in ME2 and now they are near the bottom of my personal ME character rating.

Can't say much to an opinion.

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 28 décembre 2010 - 07:43 .