667 réponses à ce sujet

[Zahe]

tonnactus wrote...

Snipers instant killed everyone in one shot who get touched by the blue laser. Just one example.

Then it was so easy to avoid it wasn't an issue.

How funny. You dont have problems with half life 2 combat but with that of the first Mass Effect game,and that make a argument go down the river?

No, because HL2 was designed in such a way that people would get when they saw it. As an example, the sniper laser thingies. The only way to know in ME1 is to get stomped and reload. Bad design.

I didnt have any problems with the Mass Effect combat,neither snipers or enemy biotics. So what?

I have standards.

Why?

It is so damn basic. The only unique thing it has is VATS and even that aren't really anything special. Pick a part, let the computer shoot for you. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed FO3. But the combat is still is just like any other shooter out there only they added a flair that in the end changes nothing.

New Vegas already nearly surpass the sales of Mass Effect 2 despite the fact that it is out only a few months. Funny how manny play it despite "mediocre combat design". Its not that any fallout title has a good story. So why people even play it?

You expect me to take you seriously when you say sales are a measure of quality? The only thing a game has to do to sell well is to appeal to the masses. It being good or unique is of secondary importance, at most.

Case in point: Modern Warfare 2 (as generic as they come, still is a top seller) or SC2 (basically SC1 with rewamped graphics, thus proving originality is overrated in the mind of the average gamer).

Modifié par Zahe, 19 janvier 2011 - 08:15 .

[Doctah T]

I agree with the "Adept is fine!" people. This isn't ME1, where you can pop barrier and laugh, and then use all twenty of your abilities. To achieve maximum effectiveness in ME2, you need to utilize all of your resources. That includes your powers, your team mates, and your guns.

The adept class isn't hard because it requires impossibly accurate controls to navigate the gameworld without dying, or because it's difficult to aim. The adept class is hard because you have a lot of different, viable options available to you, all of which require tactical thinking, prior planning, and on-the-fly integration.

[tonnactus]

Zahe wrote...

No, because HL2 was designed in such a way that people would get when they saw it.

Like Mass Effect.The red laser and the game even give them names like geth sniper. Someone has to have severe braindamage not to get that(or thinking that snipers are somehow not dangerous). But i dont expected that enemy flamethrowers troopers would make shepardt stunned until he is death....(maybee you now a shooter were this is so...)
I dont expected that singularity,working on even on krogans would fail on armored varren or fenris mechs...
Or that the drone of an engineer would be ignored by a geth hunter.

It is so damn basic. The only unique thing it has is VATS and even that aren't really anything special. Pick a part, let the computer shoot for you. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed FO3. But the combat is still is just like any other shooter out there only they added a flair that in the end changes nothing.

B.u.l.ls.h.i.t.  Shooters have neither weapon skilled shooting nor the need to repair weapons and armor.Nor that medicine decide how good stimpacks work.Or to look to eat,sleep and drink enough. Or something like damage threshhold.(i mentioned new vegas by the way)
At least i dont now any shooter that have that.  And for sure that doesnt appeal to the masses that play Halo,Gears of War or Call of Duty.
And neither was fallout ever in the sales region of those games.

Modifié par tonnactus, 19 janvier 2011 - 08:51 .

[jwalker]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

[...]

After Horizon, I complete the Firewalker missions (pick up Zaeed and Kasumi) to unlock the Collector Ship mission - to get bonus weapon asap. You'll need to complete 5-6 missions or N7 assignments and have 6 squadmates on Normandy to trigger that mission. If you do it like this, your Adept can use bonus weapon on 70-80% of all available missions.

[...]

Exactly 5 missions are required to trigger the DCS mission

After Horizon,  1º) Anomalous Weather Detected ( 3rd damage protection upgrade, unlocks Hard shields for Shepard )
2º )Archeological Dig Site , pre-requisite for 3º) MSV Strontium Mule ( Heavy skin weave upgrade) .
Then any other 2
Sometimes Jack LM if I want Squad warp ammo, Garrus LM if I want the 3rd SR upgrade, or Samara RM if I want the Scimitar....

[tangmcgame]

Tonnactus, it's still a shooter. It's just a shooter with rpg and inventory management elements. I can kinda' see your point as far as skill-based, but Deus Ex was an action-rpg-shooter and it was even more skill based than FO3. It's a shooter, just not a pure shooter.

[tonnactus]

tangmcgame wrote...

Tonnactus, it's still a shooter. It's just a shooter with rpg and inventory management elements.

Then how a rpg with modern weapons should look like and work?
Fallout New Vegas is just as much shooter as Dragon Age is a hack and slash. A player dont even need to shoot at all and can pick melee weapons to handle most situations.

Modifié par tonnactus, 19 janvier 2011 - 08:57 .

[tangmcgame]

Are you saying it's not a shooter because melee is a viable option? That's pretty silly. Just because a game offers up options that doesn't change what it is. I'm not familiar with Dragon Age (it's on my list of games to get, but I'm satisfied with what I have right now) so I can't quite follow your analogy.

It's a mixing of genres. Just because you add rpg elements to the shooter mix doesn't make it not-a-shooter.

[tonnactus]

tangmcgame wrote...

It's a mixing of genres. Just because you add rpg elements to the shooter mix doesn't make it not-a-shooter.

So Dragon Age is a hack and slash in part...
Right?
I ask again: How an rpg with modern weapons would differ from a game like Fallout?

[tangmcgame]

Again, I don't have Dragon Age, so I don't know how to respond to that.

And as far as how an rpg with modern weapons would differ from Fallout, I think that largely depends on the design of the rpg. Ultimately, the combat is a product of the game design and setting. I think you're trying to make a point that isn't there. Fallout 3 is a shooter with rpg elements OR it's an rpg with shooter elements. I'd call it a shooter-rpg. You can call it whatever you like. You CAN play it like a shooter (ignoring V.A.T.S.), minimizing the rpg elements if you like.

[tonnactus]

tangmcgame wrote...
 You CAN play it like a shooter (ignoring V.A.T.S.), minimizing the rpg elements if you like.

Not when some quests require some non shooter skills like speech,science and repair to solve them or those are requirements to get quests...

[tangmcgame]

So if there's any facet of the game that works beyond "point reticule, pewpewpew" then it's automatically a hybrid? Any attempt to widen or deepen the gameplay experience beyond Wolfenstein 3D-level interaction dilutes the "purity" of the game? That's a pretty narrow-minded way of looking at game design. Not to mention, I think you're probably in the minority if you're truly calling for simpler games or if you think that adding hybrid elements changes the functional core of a game. A game is still a shooter if the core plays like it. The rest is spice in the mix.

And, anyway, I said you would MINIMIZE the rpg elements. You're right, you can't completely ignore them. I really think this conversation is going nowhere, so I'll just stop here.

[Zahe]

tonnactus wrote...

Like Mass Effect.The red laser and the game even give them names like geth sniper. Someone has to have severe braindamage not to get that(or thinking that snipers are somehow not dangerous). But i dont expected that enemy flamethrowers troopers would make shepardt stunned until he is death....(maybee you now a shooter were this is so...)
I dont expected that singularity,working on even on krogans would fail on armored varren or fenris mechs...
Or that the drone of an engineer would be ignored by a geth hunter.

Yes I assume everyone should intuitevly know based on the name of an enemy that it can CC you from full health and shields to death as well.
And yeah the ones with flamethrowers are pesky, but they still don't even compare to ME1 mainly due to the fact that they have to be able to smell your breath before they are an actual threat as well as it is obvious even to a new player what is going to happen when an enemy charges your cover.

Stop missing the point.

B.u.l.ls.h.i.t.  Shooters have neither weapon skilled shooting nor the need to repair weapons and armor.Nor that medicine decide how good stimpacks work.Or to look to eat,sleep and drink enough. Or something like damage threshhold.(i mentioned new vegas by the way)
At least i dont now any shooter that have that.  And for sure that doesnt appeal to the masses that play Halo,Gears of War or Call of Duty.
And neither was fallout ever in the sales region of those games.

Congratulations, you have a shooter where you can repair your guns by, assumingly, gluing more guns to them. It adds to the fluff to do whenever but doesn't change the combat for ****. It is still just shooting at the bad guys until they drop but with VATS which is just shooting at them in slowmotion. And the concept of eating stuff to replenish your health is hardly what I would call original.

You have to forgive me if I am missing some integral part of the New Vegas gameplay, what I saw looked more or less like a DLC to FO3 and since I don't consider taking the exact same game and putting it in a new setting a legimitate way of making games I decided to pass on it.

Modifié par Zahe, 19 janvier 2011 - 09:38 .

[cpanda]

tonnactus wrote...

tangmcgame wrote...

It's a mixing of genres. Just because you add rpg elements to the shooter mix doesn't make it not-a-shooter.

So Dragon Age is a hack and slash in part...
Right?
I ask again: How an rpg with modern weapons would differ from a game like Fallout?

I would possibly write something but ME2 is just a much better example of a game that is different than fallout with rpg elements and modern weapons than anypoint I could come up with.

And I take it you're not a member of the Arcane Warriors club hacking and slashing all day man.

[The Spamming Troll]

Zahe wrote...

You have to forgive me if I am missing some integral part of the New Vegas gameplay, what I saw looked more or less like a DLC to FO3 and since I don't consider taking the exact same game and putting it in a new setting a legimitate way of making games I decided to pass on it.

can you name a game that looked any different then the first in its series tho? ever gam is an exact carbon copy of its original, with slightly better graphics, and some small changes to gameplay to make it what the original should have been. relating to ME, there isnt a game ive ever played thats changed moreso then ME1-->ME2.

i honestly wouldnt consider ME2 to be very RPGish. ME2s inventory is as lack luster as its story. leveling up shepard is somewhat pointless. if all the classes in ME2 didnt have a leveling system, i surely wouldnt miss it. why not just do the exact thing that infamouse did and just give me the already hotkeyed abilities?

[tangmcgame]

Having played through the game a few times and started numerous characters, I definitely wish that was an options sometimes.  Or at least being able to start at any level you like.  The only problem is, it would trivialize everything up to IFF, in my opinion.

Modifié par tangmcgame, 20 janvier 2011 - 08:30 .

[The Spamming Troll]

hey tonnactus,

i think "trivialize" is the new "balanced." i always think its funny seeing those words being thrown aroun like its obviouse to everyone except me.

does NG+ trivialize any part of ME2? lets hear the long winded excuse.........

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 20 janvier 2011 - 09:22 .

[Praetor Knight]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

can you name a game that looked any different then the first in its series tho? ever gam is an exact carbon copy of its original, with slightly better graphics, and some small changes to gameplay to make it what the original should have been. relating to ME, there isnt a game ive ever played thats changed moreso then ME1-->ME2.

Actually that's one thing I really, really like about the ME universe so far, that they did make such changes from the first to the second game.


Kudos to Bioware.

[tangmcgame]

nm

Modifié par tangmcgame, 20 janvier 2011 - 09:34 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

can you name a game that looked any different then the first in its series tho? ever gam is an exact carbon copy of its original, with slightly better graphics, and some small changes to gameplay to make it what the original should have been. relating to ME, there isnt a game ive ever played thats changed moreso then ME1-->ME2.

Actually that's one thing I really, really like about the ME universe so far, that they did make such changes from the first to the second game.


Kudos to Bioware.

Unfortunately some people believe the Madden approach to designing games would have been better for ME2: slightly better graphics, added some bells and whistles around the edges but never changed the core. I really haven't seen a valid reason why keeping it the same would have made ME2 better.

[Bozorgmehr]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

can you name a game that looked any different then the first in its series tho? ever gam is an exact carbon copy of its original, with slightly better graphics, and some small changes to gameplay to make it what the original should have been. relating to ME, there isnt a game ive ever played thats changed moreso then ME1-->ME2.

Would be pretty stupid to change everything - when the first versions is well received, it's unwise to abandon the success formula. Bioware kept most of the good stuff, added a lot more good stuff and streamlined almost everything. They did all that quite well IMHO.

i honestly wouldnt consider ME2 to be very RPGish. ME2s inventory is as lack luster as its story. leveling up shepard is somewhat pointless. if all the classes in ME2 didnt have a leveling system, i surely wouldnt miss it. why not just do the exact thing that infamouse did and just give me the already hotkeyed abilities?

I don't care what someone considers, I care about entertainment and having fun playing games. The rpg-ish elements you seem to like so much, usually bore me to death. I don't like spending hours in inventory screens, figuring out how the stats work, leveling, creating potions and other stuff etc etc. I want to have fun, i.e. enjoy the story, the characters you meet and the action.

If I'd like to feed my character, have him/her poop now and then, and rest them once a day - I'll buy myself a Tamagotchi

[Freakaz0idx]

I pretty much agree that the Adept is nerfed to heck in ME2, regardless of the exhibitions that some members here have displayed, such as Bozorgmehr who has fantastic videos. If I'm itching to play Adept, I actually go back to ME1 to play it. I've been playing ME1 a lot recently, I value it more than ME2.

Modifié par Freakaz0idx, 20 janvier 2011 - 10:56 .

[Zahe]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

can you name a game that looked any different then the first in its series tho? ever gam is an exact carbon copy of its original, with slightly better graphics, and some small changes to gameplay to make it what the original should have been. relating to ME, there isnt a game ive ever played thats changed moreso then ME1-->ME2.

i honestly wouldnt consider ME2 to be very RPGish. ME2s inventory is as lack luster as its story. leveling up shepard is somewhat pointless. if all the classes in ME2 didnt have a leveling system, i surely wouldnt miss it. why not just do the exact thing that infamouse did and just give me the already hotkeyed abilities?

The thing is, most games do something different that actually changes the gameplay or at least the feel of it. Take Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 3 for example. In that transition they added races, added heroes and items as well as a kickass map editor. That is a proper sequel, not like that New Vegas bull**** which just feel like its only purpose is making cash. But there are also games that don't drastically change the gameplay but still carry the game forward. Baldur's Gate 1&2 are such games. There were a few gameplay changes sure, but most of all they continued the saga which is enough to make it a proper sequel. If you feel like every game is a carboncopy, start playing better games.

Even if I would enojoy copy-pasted games, which I don't, I wouldn't condone it. That mindset and that way of making games is everything that is wrong with games nowadays. Take game A, add another layer of AA and some fluff, proceed to profit. If there is no incentive to take risks by creating something unique, why would the companies bother? Why not just copy an older game, rehash it and make a safe profit? The gaming companies should take the profits gained and using them to create an even more awesome game, not just a moneygrind.

And no, ME2 isn't a RPG heavy game at all. I would consider it an RPG-lite TPS. The thing is, I don't care. I have other games to satisfy my RPG needs and all that matters is that I have fun, which ME2 provides. Don't get me wrong, I would like if they added some more RPG elements (where it made sense) but I'm fine with it as it is.

Modifié par Zahe, 21 janvier 2011 - 01:35 .

[Lycidas]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Have you tried ultrasurf? It's freeware and it will give your pc an US based IP adres, this might do the trick. Just execute (no need to install), restart your browser and you're ready to go.

If it works please let me know, so I can add a link to the OP how to circumvent those damn copyright crap [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie]

It does indeed work but seems to have some bandwith issues. Still much better than not being able to watch the videos at all. Tank you.

[volus4life]

just wondering, what is considered an "easy" run for an insanity playthru? you never die? you die once a mission? you die five times a mission?

i come from an extensive FPS background, i played adept for insanity, and i didn't find it too bad, i probably died twice per mission on average. most of my deaths were the heavy mechs, they were a huge pain in the ass since they could just walk through singularity, IIRC. i was casting singularity 90% of the time, it is incredible for CC, you can keep husks and harbinger away from you and your squad mates for eternity. need to use the squad for sure though, it felt like my job was to CC 24/7, while the squad spams barrier stripping powers.

Modifié par volus4life, 21 janvier 2011 - 02:02 .