667 réponses à ce sujet

[raza31]

I thought that this thread is about Mass Effect not Fallout.

[Ahglock]

volus4life wrote...

just wondering, what is considered an "easy" run for an insanity playthru? you never die? you die once a mission? you die five times a mission?

i come from an extensive FPS background, i played adept for insanity, and i didn't find it too bad, i probably died twice per mission on average. most of my deaths were the heavy mechs, they were a huge pain in the ass since they could just walk through singularity, IIRC. i was casting singularity 90% of the time, it is incredible for CC, you can keep husks and harbinger away from you and your squad mates for eternity. need to use the squad for sure though, it felt like my job was to CC 24/7, while the squad spams barrier stripping powers.

I don't think many poeple have a never die run on insanity.  My definition for easy is I can beat it without getting frustrated by the difficulty.  Which I can do with adept on insanity.  So to me this is a kind of silly argument.  Yeah adepts might be the hardest to get through insanity, maybe they are the worst class, but I can still beat the game on insanity easily, I still have fun etc.  I consider different playstlys, different difficulties for classes a psoitve thing though.  I think it adds longevity to the game.  If adept played the same on casual as on insanit,y just with more bullets like ME1 I'd have stopped playing a long time ago. 

As for it being your job to cc 24/7, well IMO it is as an adept.  If that is the feel you got on insanity it seems like the essential feel of the adept came through. 

[tonnactus]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

If I'd like to feed my character, have him/her poop now and then, and rest them once a day - I'll buy myself a Tamagotchi

Yes,and in Mass Effect you have even more then one tamagotchi,who couldnt figured out their life without shepardt.

[The Spamming Troll]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

can you name a game that looked any different then the first in its series tho? ever gam is an exact carbon copy of its original, with slightly better graphics, and some small changes to gameplay to make it what the original should have been. relating to ME, there isnt a game ive ever played thats changed moreso then ME1-->ME2.

Would be pretty stupid to change everything - when the first versions is well received, it's unwise to abandon the success formula. Bioware kept most of the good stuff, added a lot more good stuff and streamlined almost everything. They did all that quite well IMHO.

i honestly wouldnt consider ME2 to be very RPGish. ME2s inventory is as lack luster as its story. leveling up shepard is somewhat pointless. if all the classes in ME2 didnt have a leveling system, i surely wouldnt miss it. why not just do the exact thing that infamouse did and just give me the already hotkeyed abilities?

I don't care what someone considers, I care about entertainment and having fun playing games. The rpg-ish elements you seem to like so much, usually bore me to death. I don't like spending hours in inventory screens, figuring out how the stats work, leveling, creating potions and other stuff etc etc. I want to have fun, i.e. enjoy the story, the characters you meet and the action.

If I'd like to feed my character, have him/her poop now and then, and rest them once a day - I'll buy myself a Tamagotchi

ME2s gameplay doesnt nessesarily represent ME1s gameplay. basic fundamentlas were comptely changed, like ammo for weapons, ability effectiveness(enemy protections), global cooldowns and so forth. thers not alot of people out there that like making potions or staring at stat screens, but thats not the only thing an inventory can supply, and those things you mentions have nothing to do with things involved in the ME world. by "streamlined" do you mean completely removed everytthing that made mass effect, Mass Effect? honestly, i see ME3 removing leveling up all together and just forcing abilities to certain buttons.

[Super ._. Shepard]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

B.u.l.ls.h.i.t.  Shooters have neither weapon skilled shooting nor the need to repair weapons and armor.Nor that medicine decide how good stimpacks work.Or to look to eat,sleep and drink enough. Or something like damage threshhold.(i mentioned new vegas by the way)
At least i dont now any shooter that have that.  And for sure that doesnt appeal to the masses that play Halo,Gears of War or Call of Duty.
And neither was fallout ever in the sales region of those games.

Stalker <_<

Also much of the people playing fallout are playing the easiest difficulty where you have nothing to check for.

i played fallout on hardcore mode and hardist diffculty

[JaegerBane]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
ME2s gameplay doesnt nessesarily represent ME1s gameplay. basic fundamentlas were comptely changed, like ammo for weapons, ability effectiveness(enemy protections), global cooldowns and so forth. thers not alot of people out there that like making potions or staring at stat screens, but thats not the only thing an inventory can supply, and those things you mentions have nothing to do with things involved in the ME world. by "streamlined" do you mean completely removed everytthing that made mass effect, Mass Effect? honestly, i see ME3 removing leveling up all together and just forcing abilities to certain buttons.

Stuff was changed, yes, but I'm not sure it was all changed for the worse. Global cooldowns introduced far more fluid gameplay then could be had in ME1 and, while I still think the whole protections vs biotics could have been done in a *far* better way than the heavy-handed and overzealous manner it was done in ME2, I do think the changes, by and large, made biotics far more entertaining (warp bombs and directed/arcing features made for far more interesting gameplay then the old Lift-shoot).

[CaolIla]

i finished my first insanity game with an adept and I have to say: it's not impossible but it can get frustrating at times. The hardest time I had - I actually stopped playing for a month or so - was in the mission with the wounded quarian and the varrens that keep attacking while you wait for the extraction.
With Mordin and Grunt on my side I failed at least 10 times and had to use like half of my heavy weapon ammo to finally clear this mission.
Most times it was definitely my fault that I had such a hard time, because I'm always greedy with medigel and hw ammo. I also didn't have any life insurance power like barrier till I reached level 20.
At that point it became a lot easier ; )
That was also my fault because I underestimated the difficulty for a long time. On difficulties like normal or veteran the adept is just godlike if you just use the warp explosion.
On Hardcore and Insanity you have to change your tactics at least a bit and especially till you reached a certain level and your allies can strip down enemies with a single power it can get frustrating in certain missions in combination with certain team members.
That was my experience and I certainly did a lot mistakes.
But I'm pretty sure that I could handle a second adept insanity game with less problems and wouldn't die like thirty or fourty times like I did before.
As long as you don't do too many mistakes while fighting, choose the right companions and the right powers during level up it shouldn't be that hard.

On the other hand I just yawned at playing soldier on insanity. I think I died 2 times and both times just because i did REALLY stupid things. One time I ran against an obstacle and suddenly stood on that obstacle and was stuck.

It was WAY to easy and I kicked the shadow brokers ass when I was level 15 or something like that. And I mean I kicked his ass... little wimp. To tell you how easy I thought it was: I realised I've forgotten to level Liara during the fight against the Spectre because I couldn't use warp with her. I still kicked her ass with Mattock and Sniper as soon as her barrier was stripped down.
And I used my Heavy weapons two times: The cain against the colossus and the human reaper...

If I do another Insanity game I certainly will do it with engi or adept (again I. I think they are the only classes that will give me a challenge on insanity while using the full force of their power.

If I want a challenge with soldier, vanguard or sentinel, i would have to limit myself in some way, and that's not what I'm looking for ; )

Modifié par CaolIla, 24 janvier 2011 - 07:21 .

[Roxlimn]

Totally agree. I think the Soldier would be a lot more interesting at Hardcore and Insanity if they markedly reduced the efficacy of bare guns against Armor, Shields, and Barriers. If you were forced to have multiple Ammo powers to deal with defenses, Soldier play would be much more interesting.

The alternative is reverse-Adept design. All ammo powers hurt Health as well as some defense. Too easy, too boring. If none of the anti-defense powers enhanced Health damage, Shredder Ammo would actually be interesting, and Soldiers would need to use a lot more crowd control.

Modifié par Roxlimn, 25 janvier 2011 - 12:39 .

[The Spamming Troll]

JaegerBane wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
ME2s gameplay doesnt nessesarily represent ME1s gameplay. basic fundamentlas were comptely changed, like ammo for weapons, ability effectiveness(enemy protections), global cooldowns and so forth. thers not alot of people out there that like making potions or staring at stat screens, but thats not the only thing an inventory can supply, and those things you mentions have nothing to do with things involved in the ME world. by "streamlined" do you mean completely removed everytthing that made mass effect, Mass Effect? honestly, i see ME3 removing leveling up all together and just forcing abilities to certain buttons.

Stuff was changed, yes, but I'm not sure it was all changed for the worse. Global cooldowns introduced far more fluid gameplay then could be had in ME1 and, while I still think the whole protections vs biotics could have been done in a *far* better way than the heavy-handed and overzealous manner it was done in ME2, I do think the changes, by and large, made biotics far more entertaining (warp bombs and directed/arcing features made for far more interesting gameplay then the old Lift-shoot).

i definately agree, but it doesnt change the fact that ME1 and ME2 are very differnt types of games. in the same way you cant play an ME2 adept on hardcore like you could on veteran, ME2 is very much a differnt style of gameplay then its counterpart. it just seems sortof off to me playing ME2 after i played the crap out of ME1. i couldnt imagin playing bioshock 2 and running into enemy protections, plasmid cooldowns, and overheating weapons. its just not the same game.

i can only fully enjoy ME2 becasue my brain is telling me i should, becasue i enjoyed the hell out of ME1, but ME2 just doesnt do it for me like ME1 did.

[Lycidas]

Roxlimn wrote...

... If you were forced to have multiple Ammo powers to deal with defenses, Soldier play would be much more interesting.

I think this would hurt the Soldier less than the other classes (Adept + Vanguard vs. shields, Eng. + Infilitrator vs. barriers).

[raz3r]

ME1 on maximum difficulty was so much easy in my opinion. That said I am playing my second run on ME2 as Infiltrator and I gotta say that it's challenging, not so difficult but challenging. On PC it's easy to get headshots but Cloack is not so usefull as you may think, it is fun by the way because sometimes enemies just stuck in the middle of the arena waiting for you to come over LOL.

[Roxlimn]

Lycidas:



That's a fair point. My thinking there is that I rarely use guns to strip defenses anyway, so I'm not sure it's really that much of an issue. I did offer an alternative: for Ammo powers not to affect Health at all other than Shredder.



Power classes generally come into their own once defenses are down. Soldiers can be the flip side: their ammo powers are mostly damage boosters only when defenses are up. Granted, this will make most Ammo powers less than useful on Normal and Veteran.

[Lycidas]

Roxlimn wrote...

Lycidas:

That's a fair point. My thinking there is that I rarely use guns to strip defenses anyway, so I'm not sure it's really that much of an issue. I did offer an alternative: for Ammo powers not to affect Health at all other than Shredder.

Power classes generally come into their own once defenses are down. Soldiers can be the flip side: their ammo powers are mostly damage boosters only when defenses are up. Granted, this will make most Ammo powers less than useful on Normal and Veteran.

Tbh. I still think ammo should not be handled by powers but weapon mods again. The Soldier class should have things like grenades and flashbangs instead. If you think about it switching ammo powers in the middle of the combat is not exactly something exciting to do.

[Roxlimn]

It might be for newbies. Soldier is supposed to be the newbie class. The discussion is based around trying to make it halfway interesting for us jaded guys to play, at least at Insanity.

[JaegerBane]

Lycidas wrote...

Tbh. I still think ammo should not be handled by powers but weapon mods again. The Soldier class should have things like grenades and flashbangs instead. If you think about it switching ammo powers in the middle of the combat is not exactly something exciting to do.

I still think turning differing ammo types into 'powers' was a good move, as it made them much more fluid in combat. As I said, I just wish they hadn't treated them like biotics and tech abilities and restricted them on a class-by-class basis. Aside from not making any sense whatsoever from a storyline point of view, it put up barriers to taking the right ammo for the right situation.

[Sparrow44]

Thing is they could use ammo 'power's and be able to change them in battle using the weapon selection button instead of the power wheel sortof like hovering over the weapon icon and then equipping it then it gives you a choice of ammo types to equip.

Of course this is only if they decide to bring back an inventory for ME3 but at least you wouldn't have to spend points just to make them more effective and that way you'd have room for 'proper' powers again and still be able to change ammo types in mid-battle IMO it would make things simpler.

[ryoldschool]

CaolIla wrote...

i finished my first insanity game with an adept and I have to say: it's not impossible but it can get frustrating at times. The hardest time I had - I actually stopped playing for a month or so - was in the mission with the wounded quarian and the varrens that keep attacking while you wait for the extraction.
With Mordin and Grunt on my side I failed at least 10 times and had to use like half of my heavy weapon ammo to finally clear this mission.
Most times it was definitely my fault that I had such a hard time, because I'm always greedy with medigel and hw ammo. I also didn't have any life insurance power like barrier till I reached level 20.

I agree that saving the quarian is difficult on insanity.  Somebody suggested once to use the flamethrower because it puts out a slow steady stream of fire and keeps the varren away.  I tried it on insanity and used only about 1/4 of the ammo.  Works with any class.

[Bozorgmehr]

I think it's ridiculous to label ammo a power. It's only different ammunition, any fool can use it IMHO - I wonder what kind of "training" these powers require

Does anyone actually change ammo during a fight? I never do that, I activate ammo starting a mission and never change it. The damage bonus is too small to make a difference anyways - the time it takes to activate a new ammo power will cost a shot or two, shots that inflict more damage than the extra ammo damage.

The only useful thing about ammo powers are the CC effects. Widow and Claymore can one-shot enemies with and without ammo powers, and they're the only weapons capable of one-shotting enemies on Insanity.

[IntrepidProdigy]

ryoldschool wrote...

CaolIla wrote...

i finished my first insanity game with an adept and I have to say: it's not impossible but it can get frustrating at times. The hardest time I had - I actually stopped playing for a month or so - was in the mission with the wounded quarian and the varrens that keep attacking while you wait for the extraction.
With Mordin and Grunt on my side I failed at least 10 times and had to use like half of my heavy weapon ammo to finally clear this mission.
Most times it was definitely my fault that I had such a hard time, because I'm always greedy with medigel and hw ammo. I also didn't have any life insurance power like barrier till I reached level 20.

I agree that saving the quarian is difficult on insanity.  Somebody suggested once to use the flamethrower because it puts out a slow steady stream of fire and keeps the varren away.  I tried it on insanity and used only about 1/4 of the ammo.  Works with any class.

That part is extremely easy as an adept on insanity, even without the use of any heavy weapon. Just take Thane and Zaeed with you, equip them both with their incisors, and all you have to do is help them strip defenses and use pull/singularity to lift the varren into the air so that they can finish them off. This gives you more synergy and allows you to keep doing what you're doing without having to worry about finishing the ragdolled varren.

[tonnactus]

raz3r_ wrote...

ME1 on maximum difficulty was so much easy in my opinion.

With new game plus maybee.Actually,starting at level one insanity on Mass Effect was far more challenging then doing the same in Mass Effect 2.(but become easy when the player reaches level 40-50 and get good equipment-but this was always a part in rpgs anyway)

[Arijharn]

Roxlimn wrote...

It might be for newbies. Soldier is supposed to be the newbie class. The discussion is based around trying to make it halfway interesting for us jaded guys to play, at least at Insanity.

I agree with this, but I'm not really sure that when Christina and her intrepid band of gameplay designers sat down their first thought was: "Lets make the Soldier the easiest to play." At least, I hope not, it sounds counter-intuitive to me personally. Surely their design goal would be to make each class easy to play, but difficult to master.

In ME2, I think there was a problem in how they handled particular strengths and weaknesses for the different classes. I'm personally of the opinion that in a single player game, if a class requires the usage of your squadmates to make up for your limitations, and yet another class doesn't, then something very wrong has happened in 'balance.'

I think it's actually pretty cynical to hand-wave it all away by saying "they dumbed down the Soldier to appeal to the shooter crowd" though.

[Roxlimn]

Arijharn:



It's not cynical - it's something done to cater to particular markets. It's smart.



It's impossible to design 5 or 6 classes to be "balanced" perfectly while making them all unique. At the very least, some small variation will occur, no matter how small. I think Bioware intentionally earmarked Soldier as being the default class and thus designed it around being easier to use and progress.



To be quite frank, my feeling is that the Soldier is just not very well or very lovingly designed in general. In that respect, I view is as the worst class in ME2 and I haven't been able to finish it, despite how easy it is to steamroll encounter.

[azerSheppard]

Basically, if you don't have a bonus gun, you can't really strip without squadmates, the adept lacks firepower, however, we do have a firepowerpack so problem solved.

[The Spamming Troll]

azerSheppard wrote...

Basically, if you don't have a bonus gun, you can't really strip without squadmates, the adept lacks firepower, however, we do have a firepowerpack so problem solved.

yes, the adept is only good if you bought all the DLC, and your level 30, and its not your first playthrough, and your not playing on hardcore/insanity, and if you bring miranda and mordin on every mission, and if you mod the game so the adept doesnt suck. right?

[tangmcgame]

azerSheppard wrote...

Basically, if you don't have a bonus gun, you can't really strip without squadmates, the adept lacks firepower, however, we do have a firepowerpack so problem solved.

Completely, 100% false.  I never had a problem stripping defenses with just the Shuriken/Predator (I only play on Insanity, in case that comes up).  I've taken shotgun and assault rifle from Collector Ship and both have been great, but I've never really had to use those bonus weapons.  SMGs drop shields and barriers like they're nothing and the Predator can chop up armor fast.  Heck, on grunts the SMG tears off armor quick enough that I don't even bother switching a lot of the time.  Do allies make stripping defenses easier?  Sure.  But that's not exclusive to the Adept by any stretch of the imagination.

Modifié par tangmcgame, 27 janvier 2011 - 02:39 .