667 réponses à ce sujet

[Siegdrifa]

Lycidas wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. oops i fell asleep.

who cares if your an adept when any class can do warp bombs tho. the adept sucks. i hate you ME2-adept. i hate you!

Sorry if you're using singularity and warp only thats entirely your fault. This is neither necessary nor useful.

Yep, but the false problem is : it works.
Because it works, some player think it's the only way to play it or it's mean to be played like this, which is wrong, there is no need to spam singularity / warp if it doesn't fit your preference.

[Bozorgmehr]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. oops i fell asleep.

Or GPS, Pull, Throw, GPS, Pull, Throw etc.

Or GPS, Pull, Warp, Pull, Throw etc

Or Warp, Pull, Throw/Warp etc

Or Singularity, shoot defenses/use squadies, Warp/Throw etc

who cares if your an adept when any class can do warp bombs tho. the adept sucks. i hate you ME2-adept. i hate you!

Adepts are the only ones to Warp bomb on their own and you don't like squadmates (at least in previous post) saying you think it's bad Adepts work better with squadmates and now you're saying everyone can warp bomb, which is true but only with help. Adepts can use squadies exactly the same way, but instead of using squad for warp bombs they use squad to deal with shields if they need to.

I don't see your point.

[The Spamming Troll]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. singularity, warp. oops i fell asleep.

Or GPS, Pull, Throw, GPS, Pull, Throw etc.

Or GPS, Pull, Warp, Pull, Throw etc

Or Warp, Pull, Throw/Warp etc

Or Singularity, shoot defenses/use squadies, Warp/Throw etc

who cares if your an adept when any class can do warp bombs tho. the adept sucks. i hate you ME2-adept. i hate you!

Adepts are the only ones to Warp bomb on their own and you don't like squadmates (at least in previous post) saying you think it's bad Adepts work better with squadmates and now you're saying everyone can warp bomb, which is true but only with help. Adepts can use squadies exactly the same way, but instead of using squad for warp bombs they use squad to deal with shields if they need to.

I don't see your point.

ill reply to bozo, because i love him the most.

i hope you understand im talking about hardcore/insanity here. if we all agree shockwave suck on those difficulties, i also think pull and throw suck as well. theres not even a point in taking the wide versions of those abilities becasue theres never more then one enemy without its protections. i dont know what else you guys are using when singulairty and warp are the ONLY abilities worth a damn on insanity. ill add that stasis, barrier and warp ammo are effective on protected enemies, but playing a biotic specialist, i can only shoose one of those, although so can a soldier.

i like having squad mates. i dont like that adepts are designed as the only class that relies on them tho. i like warp bombs, but i could care less that the adept can do them on their own. i dont play an adept to setup warp bombs. i know alot of people in here love the warpsplosions but im playing an adept becuase im supposed to be a CCer. if your argument for playing an adept is because it can set up warp bombs on its own, then the adept is a horribly unbalanced and crappy class. if its not singularity followed by warp, what exactly are you using on those large groups of protected enemies? ....and i know your going to say "but the game is designed to be a shooter first" and ill say well then the devs made a huge mistake creating the adept.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 28 janvier 2011 - 02:17 .

[Roxlimn]

The Spamming Troll:



Both Pull Field and Throw Field are actually very potent on all difficulties, precisely because it takes longer to kill an enemy into health than to strip the defenses.



How often do I get many enemies who have no protections? Lots. Nearly every battle, in fact. This is because defenses are relatively easy to remove, If I Incineration Blast (with Mordin) a bunch of Husks, and shoot off the armor offa few more, I can use Throw Field to decimate them all instead of gunning them down one by one. It's more efficient to use Singularity and Throw Field together compared to just Throw level 1 or just Singularity.



Area Overload and Area Energy Drain can render whole batches of Blue Suns vulnerable - fodder for Pull Field.



Heavy Throw damages Barriers competitively with Unstable Warp - about half the damage for half the cooldown. This is useful if your enemy only has a few points left and you're gunning down his friend's defenses.



With Pull or Singularity, Heavy Throw is often insta-kill regardless of location. Sometimes it's insta-kill even without comboing. It's like mercs become like Husks. You can imagine how potent this power is.



All abilities but Shockwave are potent on Insanity. I even delay Warp Evolution in favor of Throw Evolution. Throw Field is that good.

[Siegdrifa]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
 ....and i know your going to say "but the game is designed to be a shooter first" and ill say well then the devs made a huge mistake creating the adept.

The design was changed from ME1 to mix the shooting and power utilisation .
In ME1 it was power / power / power / shoot / shoot / shoot / shoot / shoot

In ME2 the universal cd allow this mechanic  power / shoot / shoot / power / shoot / shoot / power.

Cutting the shooting experience for the adept is not needed because in fact, all classe is playable with only shooting and no power.

At lower difficulty anything is effective about everthing.
Higher difficulty is meant to a good use of the power as a good use of the weapon (spaming overload and smg against armor is not the good choice for exemple).

[Evilsod]

Stasis just seems completely broken in this game... if you can permanently lock down multiple enemies, including some of the games strongest, AND cause them to take massively increased damage AND do so regardless of protection, how is that in any way in keeping with the rest of the games skills that have actual drawbacks or weaknesses?

I can't help but yawn whenever i see Stasis included in the videos, i've not had chance to use it yet (it didn't unlock for some reason after my first char did Shadow Broker, hopefully it will this time) but its stupid talking about how broken and godlike they were in ME1 and how they are 1 of the worst characters in this and then bring up Stasis...

Modifié par Evilsod, 28 janvier 2011 - 03:21 .

[Siegdrifa]

Evilsod wrote...

Stasis just seems completely broken in this game... if you can permanently lock down multiple enemies, including some of the games strongest, AND cause them to take massively increased damage AND do so regardless of protection, how is that in any way in keeping with the rest of the games skills that have actual drawbacks or weaknesses?

I can't help but yawn whenever i see Stasis included in the videos, i've not had chance to use it yet (it didn't unlock for some reason after my first char did Shadow Broker, hopefully it will this time) but its stupid talking about how broken and godlike they were in ME2 and how they are 1 of the worst characters in this and then bring up Stasis...

You cannot freez more than one target at a time (don't remember perfectly, i just played a few mission with it when it was introduced).
Stasis cannot be used against all ennemy (harbinger for exemple, or i failed when i tryed to?)
Stasis is bugged, it was never intended to make suffer damage on the target.

[jwalker]

Siegdrifa wrote...

Evilsod wrote...

Stasis just seems completely broken in this game... if you can permanently lock down multiple enemies, including some of the games strongest, AND cause them to take massively increased damage AND do so regardless of protection, how is that in any way in keeping with the rest of the games skills that have actual drawbacks or weaknesses?

I can't help but yawn whenever i see Stasis included in the videos, i've not had chance to use it yet (it didn't unlock for some reason after my first char did Shadow Broker, hopefully it will this time) but its stupid talking about how broken and godlike they were in ME2 and how they are 1 of the worst characters in this and then bring up Stasis...

You cannot freez more than one target at a time (don't remember perfectly, i just played a few mission with it when it was introduced).
Stasis cannot be used against all ennemy (harbinger for exemple, or i failed when i tryed to?)
Stasis is bugged, it was never intended to make suffer damage on the target.

No, it doesn't work on Harby. Doesnt work on the SB either. I haven't tried it but I guess it's same for the Pretorian.
About multiple targets. A Sentinel with passive and upgrade could cast Stasis every 3 seconds. Rank 1 freezes a target for 5 seconds ( 20% less on Insanity). That might work...

[Evilsod]

Siegdrifa wrote...
You cannot freez more than one target at a time (don't remember perfectly, i just played a few mission with it when it was introduced).
Stasis cannot be used against all ennemy (harbinger for exemple, or i failed when i tryed to?)
Stasis is bugged, it was never intended to make suffer damage on the target.

Well i didn't believe the damage effect was intentional but its still there and it doesn't look like its gonna be fixed any time soon.

Not all enemies but the vast majority. Harbinger is really 1 of the only enemies it doesn't seem to affect (that isn't a megaboss) but he can be shut down by Flashbang Grenade instead. Scions, YMIRs, strong named enemies, basically anything that could be devastating to you is rendered helpless which for a skill with such a small recharge and the ability to recast it on the same enemy over and over (even after the damage boost is fixed) regardless of protection just seems broken. The big enemies may get a lessened duration but since both YMIR and Scions fall to the ground and have to get back up the lessened duration is kinda irrelevant.

I won't deny that i did my first playthrough as Soldier after release on Veteran then jumped into Insanity as an Adept and got taken back several pegs when my skills were completely ineffective against everything (seriously why does armour block Biotics) and eventually got sick of dieing on the Collector Trap ship and only returned to the game 2 weeks ago (and finished a Hardcore Infiltrator now doing Insanity Soldier). I don't have the experience with the game that a lot of people here have but the Adept struck me as possibly 1 of the worst off of all the games classes purely because of the way the skills were limited. It has its moments where it excels but it seems fairly bog standard without the massive abuse Stasis is getting.

[JaegerBane]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
money would have alot to do with it.

Oh please, not that argument again....

ive never complained about not having enough money because im a millionaire, obviously. but in order to play an effective adept, i have to purchase numerouse DLCs. im actually kindof dissapointed in this comment jaegs, you seem to have a good grasp on reality. not everyone has the same opportunities as yourself. i might not have the internet, i might not have money for DLC, or i might have given up on ME2 before the DLC came out. please try to have a better perspective on this kind of subject.

The problem is the argument about 'opportunities' and 'money' doesn't work outside of theorycrafting. The concept of someone having the monetary and financial resources to allow them to sit playing games, but simultaneously lack the same to afford the purchase of a few quality DLCs is essentially nonsense - it's a sob story you here when opponents of the DLC concept switch their arguments to appeals to emotion when they can't/won't keep them grounded in reality.

It isn't even that you need to purchase DLCs purely to play the Adept to a truly potent level - both DLCs offer a huge amount of content and there is little reason for anyone who enjoys ME2 to the extent where they care about Adept effectiveness *not* to own them.

The other issues you mention - players who have completed in the past and are not playing now, or 'not having the internet' for a game that requires the internet to install - are essentially not valid. True, when the game first came out the Adept wasn't exactly tip-top, but that argument is ultimately pointless - the fact of the matter is that situation has largely been fixed and hence further argument serves no purpose beyond that of rhetoric. If you had the internet when the game was first released - which you must have, as you would never have had the chance to play the game at all if not - then it is difficult to see the relevance of an argument that claims the need for internet is a point against the DLCs.

*That* is why I say they are neither here nor there. I don't make such a point lightly. The situation for the Adept has changed. The stuff that was wrong about them is now not so much a problem thanks to new content. *If* you choose to avoid such content, then that is your choice, but it robs any validity of the argument that the Adept has been neutred.

[Bozorgmehr]

jwalker wrote...

No, it doesn't work on Harby. Doesnt work on the SB either. I haven't tried it but I guess it's same for the Pretorian.
About multiple targets. A Sentinel with passive and upgrade could cast Stasis every 3 seconds. Rank 1 freezes a target for 5 seconds ( 20% less on Insanity). That might work...

There can only be one enemy in Stasis. Casting it again will end the effect instantly though target will still fall down. Recasting Stasis is only useful if you want to (ab)use the damage bug (shooting immediately after casting will almost garantee a "fall of death" hit).

It doesn't affect Harbinger, Praetorians, Thresher Maw, Gunships, Geth Colossi, Shadow Broker and Oculus.

Evilsod wrote...

[...] Scions, YMIRs, strong named enemies, basically anything that could be devastating to you is rendered helpless which for a skill with such a small recharge and the ability to recast it on the same enemy over and over (even after the damage boost is fixed) regardless of protection just seems broken. The big enemies may get a lessened duration but since both YMIR and Scions fall to the ground and have to get back up the lessened duration is kinda irrelevant.

Combat Drones will render Scions and YMIRs helpless; and Singularity will disable Scions and Harbinger for a long time - just like Stasis. The damage bug is bad though, but you don't have to use it - having Stasis to disable one (powerful) enemy long enough to deal with his/her lesser goons first, is very cool and not "broken" or "OP". Just great CC - I do think Stasis should have been Adept only power, it's crazy that Soldiers (who know nothing about biotics) can use one of the best biotic powers around. That's like an ARush Adept - not good

I won't deny that i did my first playthrough as Soldier after release on Veteran then jumped into Insanity as an Adept and got taken back several pegs when my skills were completely ineffective against everything (seriously why does armour block Biotics) and eventually got sick of dieing on the Collector Trap ship and only returned to the game 2 weeks ago (and finished a Hardcore Infiltrator now doing Insanity Soldier). I don't have the experience with the game that a lot of people here have but the Adept struck me as possibly 1 of the worst off of all the games classes purely because of the way the skills were limited. It has its moments where it excels but it seems fairly bog standard without the massive abuse Stasis is getting.

Adept doesn't need Stasis to be deadly on Insanity. Check my sig for videos. There are some in which Stasis is used, but many without, all played on Insanity, including some solo videos before Stasis' release and without Heavy Weapons.

All biotic powers (except Shockwave) are very powerful on Insanity, they're just a little harder to use than something straight forward like ARush. It might be good to first play on Veteran to get familiar with biotics before playing Insanity.

[kstarler]

Just to contribute in regards to Stasis, Christina Norman has acknowledged that there is a bug (during the fall animation, the enemy is considered "friendly" and takes the same damage as enemies on Casual difficulty, and, since most people tend to move to point blank range to damage the falling enemy, the damage the enemy takes can be massive) and has said that there are no plans to fix this, as ME2 is a single player game. Therefore, it is left to the players to decide whether they want to use Stasis or not. Personally, I've beaten the game with every class on Insanity without using Stasis, just as I've beaten the game without using the Cain, so I have no problem exploiting the Stasis bug to speed things up (or using the Cain for that matter).

So, per Christina Norman, if you don't like Stasis, don't use it. And the same can be said for Flash Bangs vs. Harbinger. If you don't want to cheese Harby, don't use them on him. Personally, I bring Kasumi on all of my collector missions.

Modifié par kstarler, 28 janvier 2011 - 04:22 .

[SupidSeep]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
Adept doesn't need Stasis to be deadly on Insanity. Check my sig for videos. There are some in which Stasis is used, but many without, all played on Insanity, including some solo videos before Stasis' release and without Heavy Weapons.

Seconded, my first Adept was completed without ANY purchased DLC (only the Ceberus stuff), it was hard pre-Horizon due to lack of biotic upgrades, but once I settled into the rhythm, it was awesome the damage an Adept can do on his/her own.

Even in my current Adept game where my current Adept is ~ level 24, I use Stasis so infrequently, sometimes I practically forget it is available, and some missions were completed without touching it.  I don't even bother upgrading it since I hardly use it.

In short, Stasis is nice but far from necessary.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Stasis is not at all an optimal bonus power for adepts that don't want to spend time shooting. It offers more benefit to other classes.



Certainly, adepts can complete the game without ever using biotics because weapons and ammo are so powerful. But the adept is supposed to be the biotic master killing without ever firing a shot.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Stasis is not at all an optimal bonus power for adepts that don't want to spend time shooting. It offers more benefit to other classes.

True, obstensibly b/c stasis prevents damage while active, and the fall-of-death is too short to ensure a successful warp blast. Other classes benefit more because they generally lack the kind of cc options the adept already has (ie: singularity).

[JaegerBane]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Stasis is not at all an optimal bonus power for adepts that don't want to spend time shooting. It offers more benefit to other classes.

True, obstensibly b/c stasis prevents damage while active, and the fall-of-death is too short to ensure a successful warp blast. Other classes benefit more because they generally lack the kind of cc options the adept already has (ie: singularity).

This was my original feelings on the matter. However, Stasis does a lot more Adepts than that.

1) It's ability to hit instantly means that it allows an Adept to take an enemey out of action from halfway across the battlefield.
2) It is *significantly* more effective than any other biotic power (or powers in general, for that matter) against dangerous mechanical targets. It instakills all forms of flying drones (they die after Stasis wears off) and it's effectiveness against YMIRS is so high that it essentially allows the Adept to deal with them at Melee range.
3) It is highly effective against any defended target aside from a small selection. Heavy weapons are particularly vulnerable to Stasis as they tend to stay at the back.

Stasis is one of the more versatile powers in this game. It's not really an alternative to Singularity, however - it doesn't function with Warp and it doesn't do anything to Harby. Both powers together give an Adept an extremely wide array of options that essentially allows them to lockdown anyone on the battlefield, defences or not.

[Evilsod]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
All biotic powers (except Shockwave) are very powerful on Insanity, they're just a little harder to use than something straight forward like ARush. It might be good to first play on Veteran to get familiar with biotics before playing Insanity.

Hardcore i might agree with you but Veteran? Veteran would devolve into a free for all Pullfest really similar to how ME1 Adepting was where you could casually stroll around and nothing could resist you. Hardcore would at least give enemies minor defence layers to better see the strengths and weaknesses but it sitll wouldn't prepare you for Insanity given how much harder the defence layer is to break.

[khevan]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Stasis is not at all an optimal bonus power for adepts that don't want to spend time shooting. It offers more benefit to other classes.

Certainly, adepts can complete the game without ever using biotics because weapons and ammo are so powerful. But the adept is supposed to be the biotic master killing without ever firing a shot.

I've never really understood the bolded argument.  Yes, it was said in the Adept trailer, but it was also said later that the trailer was based around the Normal difficulty level, which is the "standard" Mass Effect experience.  The harder difficulties were made to be, yanno, harder?  On Normal, the bolded above is absolutely true.  On Veteran, the above is true.  On Hardcore/Insanity, it's still true, but you have to use your squad to strip defenses first.  It can be done, has been done, it just is more efficient to use guns in concert with your powers.

In any case, on any difficulty in ME1, the Adept had to shoot nearly as much as a soldier did.  The Adept simply didn't have as many enemies shooting at him because they were floating all over the room.

Saying that an ME2 Adept is gimped because *gasp* they have to use their guns(!) is just a wierd complaint, in my opinion.

[Roxlimn]

khevan:



It's not just a weird complaint. It's that kind of thinking that would have made the Adept a bad class. Having a class be instawin on the hardest difficulty setting on the game without using all its resources is just asking for broken.

[Bozorgmehr]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Certainly, adepts can complete the game without ever using biotics because weapons and ammo are so powerful. But the adept is supposed to be the biotic master killing without ever firing a shot.

Ammo isn't powerful, when using weapons like the Mattock, Vindicator, Viper, Mantis, Widow, Katana, Eviscerator, GPS, Scimitar, Claymore, Phalanx and Carnifex, it doesn't save even a single shot to kill normal enemies (>90% of all enemies). Weapons are powerful and biotic/tech skills are powerful damage dealers - ammo powers are not.

[kstarler]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Certainly, adepts can complete the game without ever using biotics because weapons and ammo are so powerful. But the adept is supposed to be the biotic master killing without ever firing a shot.

I'm still waiting to see someone provide video showing that the game can be played as an Adept on Insanity without ever using a single power to strip defenses or kill an opponent. I really do want to see someone doing this, because it would help me to more effectively use my weapons. I tend to run low on ammo before the DCS even with my powers.

As to the second point, that the Adept is supposed to kill without firing a shot; since when was this the developers' intention, or reality in either game? It most certainly wasn't true for any difficulty above the lowest setting in ME1, a point which has already been conceded to in this thread. If anything, it is MORE possible to kill with biotics alone in ME2, as demonstrated by Sinosleep in this video, because of shorter cooldowns and greater damage from biotic abilities, as well as the fact that enemies die (most of the time) if they are thrown outside of the normal mission area. I understand if people want the Adept to be like the mage is in DA:O, but it has never been like that in the Mass Effect universe, nore is it meant to be.

[Bozorgmehr]

kstarler wrote...

I understand if people want the Adept to be like the mage is in DA:O, but it has never been like that in the Mass Effect universe, nore is it meant to be.

It's impossible actually. That would mean no more shooting and Mass Effect is a tps/rpg hybrid. In DA:O you cannot attack enemies manually. You right-click on a target and your character will auto-attack. The only thing you can do actively is que special moves or spells.

Imagine what this would do to Soldiers! Player can only right-click enemy and activate ARush - the DA:O mechanics will do everything else - move around/ into cover / shoot and kill enemies. That's an extremely bad RTS game that looks great, not a shooter IMHO.

[kstarler]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

kstarler wrote...

I understand if people want the Adept to be like the mage is in DA:O, but it has never been like that in the Mass Effect universe, nore is it meant to be.

It's impossible actually. That would mean no more shooting and Mass Effect is a tps/rpg hybrid. In DA:O you cannot attack enemies manually. You right-click on a target and your character will auto-attack. The only thing you can do actively is que special moves or spells.

Imagine what this would do to Soldiers! Player can only right-click enemy and activate ARush - the DA:O mechanics will do everything else - move around/ into cover / shoot and kill enemies. That's an extremely bad RTS game that looks great, not a shooter IMHO.

I agree completely. I think, though, that the Adept gets a bad rap because, whether intentionally or not, people are comparing the Adept to caster classes in other games, and there really is no comparison.

[Bozorgmehr]

And that's what I like best - Adepts are true hybrids. They can only use guns or powers, but they work best using everything Mass Effect has to offer - squadmates, weapons and cool powers combinde, i.e. the best of both worlds.

[Ahglock]

JaegerBane wrote...

*That* is why I say they are neither here nor there. I don't make such a point lightly. The situation for the Adept has changed. The stuff that was wrong about them is now not so much a problem thanks to new content. *If* you choose to avoid such content, then that is your choice, but it robs any validity of the argument that the Adept has been neutred.

The thing is the starting problems are and were vastly exagerated here on the forums.  As my huge post on the previous page  tried to show I was in the adepts suck crowd when the game launched.  It took less than 1 month, 1 freaking playthrough for me to get good enough at the game that I thought adepts on insanity were easy.  And I still had a lot to learn about how to play the game.  The DLC sure makes it easier, but the "problems" it fixes for the adept were not very big problems.  Yeah maybe the adept could have used some better defense smashing powers, like maybe warp should have been default AoE the warp explosion just made it bigger and more powerful, maybe shockwave could use some anti-shield bonuses etc.  But those issues are minor because this is a squad based game.  If having a squad does not really matter to you on insanity, something is wrong with the class design. 

Sure adepts might be the weakest class overall, that is possible.  But if every class can get through insanity relatively easily who cares.  I can say without  a doubt I feel more powerful on insanity as a biotic in ME2 than in ME1, the quick cooldowns, the non-infinite hit points, the better straight out damage all combines to make the adept seem more powerful than ever before.