667 réponses à ce sujet

[Roxlimn]

Bozorgmehr:



It puzzles me no end why people would want Insanity with Adept to be exactly the same as Veteran. If that were so, then Adept would be just like Infiltrator and Soldier - badly designed in terms of difficulty setting.



If you want a biotic god, Grumpy Old Wizard, you can always play an Adept on Veteran. Why is this a problem? Ego can't take it? Going to Insanity is supposed to be meaningful. With Adept, it is. With Soldier and Infiltrator, it's not. Those classes are broken. They ought to be fixed to be more like the Adept in terms of power level at the higher settings.

[Sabre4000]

Then they should inform their retail outlets.

[Sabre4000]

I have no interest in Fallout. Thanks for the tip.

[marshalleck]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Sabre4000 wrote...

Mass Effect is not a shooter.
http://www.ebgames.c...fect-2-Xbox-360

The Lead Gameplay Designer of Mass Effect has a different opinion.

[edit] what's the point anyway, Fall Out 3 is also considered a rpg - try completing it without shooting.

Fallout 3 was flawed. Now Fallout New Vegas, I understand you can complete that game as a diplomat but it's quite challenging. 

[Kronner]

How is Adept hard on Insanity? It is pretty much like all other classes - you will die only if you screw up.
If you duck behind cover and spam whatever abilities you have, you won't die.
If you are really aggressive, you will kill enemies before they kill you. Anything in between is risky and can result in death. Personally, I don't see how Adept is any harder than Infiltrator on Insanity. Yes, you can spam Cloak and snipe, but with Adept you can Warp bomb from cover = no difference at all.

Some classes are better equipped for aggressive play, so player doesn't have to think that much, but that does not make these classes easier to play on Insanity. Although Soldier and slow-mo is quite obviously super easy mode for all that enjoy it.

Modifié par Kronner, 30 janvier 2011 - 12:58 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Roxlimn wrote...

Bozorgmehr:

It puzzles me no end why people would want Insanity with Adept to be exactly the same as Veteran. If that were so, then Adept would be just like Infiltrator and Soldier - badly designed in terms of difficulty setting.

If you want a biotic god, Grumpy Old Wizard, you can always play an Adept on Veteran. Why is this a problem? Ego can't take it? Going to Insanity is supposed to be meaningful. With Adept, it is. With Soldier and Infiltrator, it's not. Those classes are broken. They ought to be fixed to be more like the Adept in terms of power level at the higher settings.

Yeah, for Soldiers and Infiltrators the defense-system doesn't work at all. Bioware could have increased enemy health to gain similar "difficulty increase" effect. The system does work pretty good for Adepts - they are no gods, but with the right tools and tactics there's still plenty of room to utilize biotic powers. A good balance IMHO.

Sabre4000 wrote...

Then they should inform their retail outlets.

Mass Effect is a jack of all trades game. Some retailers label it RPG, others an action game, others an adventure game and others a shooter. I think it's a bit of all and one of the things that makes this such a great game for me: Great story and universe to explore, briliant presentation, cool and funny NPCs, great (shooting) action supported by cool combat, tech and biotic powers that need to be leveled to enjoy their effects best.

[Roxlimn]

Kronner wrote...

How is Adept hard on Insanity? It is pretty much like all other classes - you will die only if you screw up.
If you duck behind cover and spam whatever abilities you have, you won't die.
If you are really aggressive, you will kill enemies before they kill you. Anything in between is risky and can result in death. Personally, I don't see how Adept is any harder than Infiltrator on Insanity. Yes, you can spam Cloak and snipe, but with Adept you can Warp bomb from cover = no difference at all.

Some classes are better equipped for aggressive play, so player doesn't have to think that much, but that does not make these classes easier to play on Insanity. Although Soldier and slow-mo is quite obviously super easy mode for all that enjoy it.

A class that requires less thinking to play is necessarily easier to play - because you're not thinking as much.

[Kronner]

Roxlimn wrote...

A class that requires less thinking to play is necessarily easier to play - because you're not thinking as much.

But you might need quicker reflexes, better aim or better awareness for example. I don't find Adepts hard to play, I like that class a lot. I wouldn't say Adept is harder to play than Infiltrator.

Example: close combat Infiltrator with a Shotgun requires just as much thinking as aggressively played Adept IMHO. Both classes are also super easy to play if you simply duck in cover until the fight is over.

Another example: Vanguard and Charge. It might seem mindless, but you have to be aware of your enemies, cover, and general layout. 

Soldier with Revenant is also a lot of fun to play, and I do not think Adept is any harder.

Only the overpowered DLC stuff broke Soldier to the point where it is so easy I have to avoid Mattock to enjoy that class.

Modifié par Kronner, 30 janvier 2011 - 01:17 .

[Roxlimn]

Kronner wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...
A class that requires less thinking to play is necessarily easier to play - because you're not thinking as much.

But you might need quicker reflexes, better aim or better awareness for example. I don't find Adepts hard to play, I like that class a lot. I wouldn't say Adept is harder to play than Infiltrator.

You actually need less aim and less reflexes as Infiltrator and Soldier because they have time dilation powers and that gives you more time to aim.  And it's not like you need more battle awareness to aim your gun that isn't particularly selective about what it does to targets.

[Kronner]

Roxlimn wrote...

You actually need less aim and less reflexes as Infiltrator and Soldier because they have time dilation powers and that gives you more time to aim.  And it's not like you need more battle awareness to aim your gun that isn't particularly selective about what it does to targets.

Assuming you are using Sniper with Infiltrator. If you have Shotgun, you get no dilatation.

As an Adept I can do Area Overload (squad) + Pull Field and 3 enemies are flying. How is that any harder than Revenant Soldier?

Modifié par Kronner, 30 janvier 2011 - 01:20 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Kronner wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

A class that requires less thinking to play is necessarily easier to play - because you're not thinking as much.

But you might need quicker reflexes, better aim or better awareness for example. I don't find Adepts hard to play, I like that class a lot. I wouldn't say Adept is harder to play than Infiltrator.

Example: close combat Infiltrator with a Shotgun requires just as much thinking as aggressively played Adept IMHO. Both classes are also super easy to play if you simply duck in cover until the fight is over.

Yeah, Adept is easy, but according to some they ain't. There's a difference though. Infiltrators activate Cloak, target enemy without taking any damage, time dilation makes aiming very easy and a SR headshot will drop almost all enemies. Adepts cast Singularity (and take damage), they have to shoot off defenses (taking damage) and finish casting Warp (still taking damage). That's a bit harder and instead of one power, two powers need to be cast to kill one enemy. Warp bombs do have a large AoE so likely they will damage nearby enemies too (Infiltrators can damage/kill only one at a time).

I think it's true that Adepts are behind Infiltrators (time needed to clear a room) playing safe and comfy behind cover. But that's not enough to consider them gimped or under-powered in any way.

[Kronner]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Yeah, Adept is easy, but according to some they ain't. There's a difference though. Infiltrators activate Cloak, target enemy without taking any damage, time dilation makes aiming very easy and a SR headshot will drop almost all enemies. Adepts cast Singularity (and take damage), they have to shoot off defenses (taking damage) and finish casting Warp (still taking damage). That's a bit harder and instead of one power, two powers need to be cast to kill one enemy. Warp bombs do have a large AoE so likely they will damage nearby enemies too (Infiltrators can damage/kill only one at a time).

I think it's true that Adepts are behind Infiltrators (time needed to clear a room) playing safe and comfy behind cover. But that's not enough to consider them gimped or under-powered in any way.

Yes, I agree. Despite the fact that Infiltrator takes no damage, the cooldown starts only after the Cloak wore off. Cloak-Snipe-Cloak-Snipe infiltrator is probably the least effective way to play. An Adept that uses squad properly is A LOT more effective than Cloak-Snipe-Cloak-Snipe infiltrator.
Adept is easy to play, but it takes time to master the class, just the way it should be.

I had the very same experience with all classes, save for maybe Soldier. But Soldier can be also played tactically, it does not have to be just mindless shooting in slow motion.

edit: and I forgot Assault Armor Sentinel, that is just way too powerful as well. Too short cooldown.

Modifié par Kronner, 30 janvier 2011 - 01:39 .

[Evilsod]

Bozorgmehr wrote...


No, it means the other classes are broken. Soldiers equip SR, activate ARush and everyone dies with a single shot whether you're playing Casual or Insanity. No difference. no different tactics needed, nothing. For Soldiers nothing changes, only enemies do a little more damage. Infiltrators idem, Vanguards are easier on Insanity coz enemies stay still and wait for their headshot.

You call something that would completely break the game "balanced"? Are you seriously suggesting to have all biotic powers affect protected enemies? Why are biotics "gimped" anyways, beats me?

Potato potato. If all other classes are stronger than the Adept then the Adept is gimped from any other point of view. From the Adepts point of view the rest are overpowered.

Really? Which class is "better" - please link a video of someone who clears rooms much faster than my Adept does in those videos. I've never seen anyone clearing the Collector Ship Ambush in one minute - my Adept did.

Have you tried? I've not really bothered to scour youtube but the only videos that ever get spammed in this thread are ones about how the Adept can do things. Noone bothers to link up to videos showing how the others do things to show its better at it so i've nothing to compare to. Quite likely noone even bothers to create them.

Adepts are just as powerful, but they don't have one super power to make fights extremely easy. They actually need to use everything available - like it's supposed to be for those who like to master the game. One can easily complete ME2 on Insanity without knowing anything about gameplay at all, only using one skill and ignoring everything else playing Soldier or Infiltrator. You think that's great, I don't. A good game is easy to play, difficult to master. This is true for the Adept, not true for some other classes.

Guns are clearly stronger than powers so why is that a surprise? The 3 combat classes can use Adren Rush, Charge or Cloak to increase the damage of there guns even more and then they have the ammo powers to increase damage that little bit further and to add some CC to regular bullets but i'm pretty sure you could manage the game without them. Firepower DLC and Kasumi introduced even stronger weapons for those classes.

Noone is claiming the Adept is gimped because you has to actually shoot things. Its because the biotic master still relies on his guns more than his biotics. Why even bother including a biotic master class when shooting is still more important than your skills. If all you can say is 'zomg this is a shooter' then why even bother argueing. Yes ME1 adept was unbalanced and you still had to shoot people but the context was completely different, your skills were actually effective at more than just making an enemy flinch. The 3 combat classes are for shooters. Why even include the other 3 if shooting is still a bigger priority than your tech/biotics skills.

[Roxlimn]

Evilsod;



If you're relying more on guns than on powers as an Adept and you didn't want to, then you're doing it wrong. An Adept should be able to play fairly fast on Insanity without shooting.

Kronner wrote:



Assuming you are using Sniper with Infiltrator. If you have Shotgun, you get no dilatation.



As an Adept I can do Area Overload (squad) + Pull Field and 3 enemies are flying. How is that any harder than Revenant Soldier?

You had to think about it as well as aim the powers. And you don't get time dilation on aiming your powers.



A Shotgun Infiltrator doesn't get time dilation, but I don't think we include Shotgun Infiltrators on the list of classes that are significantly easier to play than a bog-standard Adept.

[Bozorgmehr]

Evilsod wrote...

Potato potato. If all other classes are stronger than the Adept then the Adept is gimped from any other point of view. From the Adepts point of view the rest are overpowered.

Not exactly. The Adept isn't weaker than the other classes, only a little harder to play on Insanity (Normal Adept is perhaps the most powerful class, and that's how the game was balanced - I don't hear anyone complaining about the Normal Adept). Adept's biotic powers are (unlike some other classes) affected by the defense system, like it's supposed to, i.e. the defense system works for the Adept and doesn't work (as good) for other classes. 

Have you tried? I've not really bothered to scour youtube but the only videos that ever get spammed in this thread are ones about how the Adept can do things. Noone bothers to link up to videos showing how the others do things to show its better at it so i've nothing to compare to. Quite likely noone even bothers to create them.

Adept videos are rare - I estimate that 95% of all ME2 gameplay videos on YT are played using other classes. Vanguard is the most popular, Infiltrator next, there are not many Soldier videos. I think that's because it's the most straight forward class and usually those uploading videos do so to show something new. There isn't much to discover playing Soldier - most players will figure out how ARush works soon enough.

The reason why I made those Adept videos was to show people that biotics are cool and effective on Insanity and I'm pleased to have heard from many people, who've watch those videos, it helped improving their own game and they started CQC Adept, previously considered (almost) impossible, to find out it isn't very hard, but great fun instead. The same thing was true with Biotic Charge BTW. At first it was considered a suicidal power, useless on Insanity. Until some guys showed (in their videos) Charge is effective and amazing on Insanity.

Guns are clearly stronger than powers so why is that a surprise? The 3 combat classes can use Adren Rush, Charge or Cloak to increase the damage of there guns even more and then they have the ammo powers to increase damage that little bit further and to add some CC to regular bullets but i'm pretty sure you could manage the game without them. Firepower DLC and Kasumi introduced even stronger weapons for those classes.

Yes, Mass Effect is a shooter -  guns are the main tools to damage and kill enemies. All classes can use weapons and they can all use the most powerful types. Powers are to aid; to improve shooting (Soldier, Infiltrator and Vanguard), to make oneself indestructible (Sentinel) and to control/disable enemies (Adept and Engineer).

Biotic powers like Pull and Singularity double weapon damage (damage bonus) for example, just like ARush and Cloak.

Noone is claiming the Adept is gimped because you has to actually shoot things. Its because the biotic master still relies on his guns more than his biotics. Why even bother including a biotic master class when shooting is still more important than your skills. If all you can say is 'zomg this is a shooter' then why even bother arguing. Yes ME1 adept was unbalanced and you still had to shoot people but the context was completely different, your skills were actually effective at more than just making an enemy flinch. The 3 combat classes are for shooters. Why even include the other 3 if shooting is still a bigger priority than your tech/biotics skills.

Bioware designed Mass Effect to be a shooter first - whether we like it or not. There are no light sabers to cut down enemies like in Star Wars, instead Shepard & Co have guns to deal with enemies. In ME1 all enemies had to be gunned down, powers served to disable enemies completely (biotic and tech) or to make Shepard almost impossible to kill (Immunity) - just like in ME2. The only thing that changed in ME2 is how those two features are balanced, making the action more exciting and fun IMHO.

The Biotic master can still control the battlefield, just not like in ME1 - but better than any other class. This makes the Adept unique. Everything has improved over ME1, you can play Insanity without ever shooting (you can't in ME1) and you can play Insanity using only weapons (will be extremely hard in ME1), but to be truly effective you'll need both. Using your weapons, squad and powers combined gives the Adept an edge and makes them feel like real super soldiers (not slowmo soldiers).

[BrynnFey]

Well, I don't have an axe to grind with anyone, but I didn't think Insanity with an Adept was that bad...after I watched some of Average Gatsby's vids (specifically the one for Horizon). I couldn't make it past Horizon as an Adept before I realized (from the video) that you could use Singularity to stop/slow down shielded/armored/barriered targets. After that, it was still bloody tough, but totally doable. I also thought the way the level scaling was, nothing was quite as hard as Horizon's final battle, but maybe that's just because I got better.



I actually like the fact that there is a class that is significantly harder than other classes to play on Insanity (taking y'all's work for it because the only other class I've played on Insanity is Vanguard). But I can understand how that could be frustrating to people who want the achievement and only like to play Adepts. There is no doubt Adepts were more powerful in ME1. But they were almost broken in ME1, so I can see why Bioware wanted to scale them back a bit.

[Siegdrifa]

Evilsod wrote...

Noone is claiming the Adept is gimped because you has to actually shoot things. Its because the biotic master still relies on his guns more than his biotics. Why even bother including a biotic master class when shooting is still more important than your skills. If all you can say is 'zomg this is a shooter' then why even bother argueing. Yes ME1 adept was unbalanced and you still had to shoot people but the context was completely different, your skills were actually effective at more than just making an enemy flinch. The 3 combat classes are for shooters. Why even include the other 3 if shooting is still a bigger priority than your tech/biotics skills.

I think your view of the game is a little different of what it is.

the fight is made of 2 aspect :
- weapon
- powers

each aspect having sub purpose, some weapon being more effectiv or less than another weapon toward ennemy's defences, same goes for powers.

The designers in their wisdome, choose to never let a class no matter his squad mate / power being somewhat unable to take any kind of target, and this is not a stupid choice at all.
Why they choose to give that "minimum" to weapons and not powers? Because not every clase is supposed to use power, while every class will carry weapon.
Plus, Shepard as a military character, it's abovious he/she would get weapon training no matter his/her speciality.

That's why adept carry the minimum to help him strip defence / kill any ennemy.
heavy gun against armor / life
SMG against shield / barrier / life.

When you play any other classe, the fight is over when the ennemy is dead, even without his shield, he can still cover / shoot / kill you or your squad mate.
With an adept, it's different, the turning point of the fight is when ennemy loose their defence, from here, their potential menace is over, they cannot shoot if singularity / pull, they cannot cover if singularity / pull / shockwave.

Ennemy without defence are just childtoy for the adpet to play with.

So here is my question: why should we give more power to the adept to strip defence more effitiently when combining his power + weapon it's done in few second and sometime less ?
It's not needed in ME2, like any other class, the adept is equiped to face alone any kind of ennemy you cross during the game.

Still, you can play only by spaming warp and singularity if you wish, but the whole game is supposed to be a hybride system, the mechanic no matter the class is : power / shoot / shoot / power / shoot / shoot / power.
If you wanted to eat a chocolat cake, you shouldn't have bought a cofee cake, complaning cofee doesn't tast like chocolate is obvious....
Just hope there will be chocolat in ME3.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 30 janvier 2011 - 04:16 .

[Tony Gunslinger]

Warp is the only native power that counters barriers, which happens to be the de-facto defense of the main enemy. Adepts are designed to kill the Collectors and their minions. Singularity locks down Harbinger. Warp destroys barriers and armor. Pull/Throw/Shockwave insta-kills husks. Horizon, the Collector Ship, and Collector Base are the biggest missions in this game and the only class completely designed to fight in them is the Adept.

Mercs with shields, mechs, the Geth? They're common fodder, which is why they're so many of them. I can't wait for ME3 and see what Adepts can do the Reapers.

[Ahglock]

Bozorgmehr wrote.


Bioware designed Mass Effect to be a shooter first - whether we like it or not. There are no light sabers to cut down enemies like in Star Wars, instead Shepard & Co have guns to deal with enemies. In ME1 all enemies had to be gunned down, powers served to disable enemies completely (biotic and tech) or to make Shepard almost impossible to kill (Immunity) - just like in ME2. The only thing that changed in ME2 is how those two features are balanced, making the action more exciting and fun IMHO.

The Biotic master can still control the battlefield, just not like in ME1 - but better than any other class. This makes the Adept unique. Everything has improved over ME1, you can play Insanity without ever shooting (you can't in ME1) and you can play Insanity using only weapons (will be extremely hard in ME1), but to be truly effective you'll need both. Using your weapons, squad and powers combined gives the Adept an edge and makes them feel like real super soldiers (not slowmo soldiers).

What cracks me up about this point people keep making is the comparison to ME 1that frequently comes along with it, the ME2 adept is gimped because he shoots too much blah blah, ME1 adpets were so much better.  In ME1 on insnaity you had to shoot and you had to shoot a lot.  In ME2 while at optimum use a adept might shoot more than he uses biotics it will be comparitively and overall less than in ME1.  Especially given the short global cooldowns vs the really long cooldowns
of ME1.  My god you'd use a power and then shoot for freaking ever,
instead of use power shoot a couple seconds, use power, shoot etc.  Heck, yuou can actually go through levels in ME2 without shooting.   You could not do that in any reaonable fashion in ME1.  ME2 adepts actually rely upon weapons less than ever before, and yet people say they are gimped compared ot ME1 adepts because they have to use guns. 

And on a side note I don't know about others but I used my squadmates all the time in ME1.  While it is not the the best setup I ran with Tali and Ashley.  That way it was Tech, Soldier, Adept(me).  I spammed Ashlies immunity, and weapon powers, I used Tali to shatter shields, shut down guns, and hack.  Given the long cooldown system I might have used them less often, but not compard to my power usage.  I used powers less in ME1 overall my companions and mine, that is just how the power system was setup.  

So in ME2 i use my powers more often, I don't need guns as much as ME1 and yet I am gimped compared to before because I use guns guns and squadies, whch I used in ME1 just as often or more. 

Modifié par Ahglock, 30 janvier 2011 - 05:01 .

[The Spamming Troll]

id like to say some things but instead id just like most of you to just reread grumpy wizard and evilsods posts instead. it'd be easier then me just typing exactly what they said.



i have a funny feeling people like bozo and roxlim are the reasons why they removed the mako, elevators and the inventory.

[Evilsod]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Not exactly. The Adept isn't weaker than the other classes, only a little harder to play on Insanity (Normal Adept is perhaps the most powerful class, and that's how the game was balanced - I don't hear anyone complaining about the Normal Adept). Adept's biotic powers are (unlike some other classes) affected by the defense system, like it's supposed to, i.e. the defense system works for the Adept and doesn't work (as good) for other classes. 

So now what you're saying is the game was balanced around Normal and no attempt was made to really balance it for the higher difficulties and the Adept got the short straw making him lose considerably more effectiveness than other classes but yet isn't gimped, its the rest who are overpowered? Well its 5 against 1 and theres no chance its gonna change...

The only reason the defence system works more for Adept is because it blocks almost all his powers. So instead people like you basically started playing it as you would an aggressive Soldier (aside from the fact the other classes can't use as many guns there isn't much difference in the damage they deal anyway) with the Biotics acting as duplicates for Concussive Shot and claiming the Adept isn't gimped because he can play in exactly the same way as a Soldier would play instead of a unique playstyle.

As for the speedrun of the Collector Ship attack it was impressively fast till i realised you'd Stasis'd both Scions to make them fall off the map which basically meant your only opponents were balled up groups of 3-4 Collectors. Any class can take Stasis and use it to lame both Scions and Reave is really the only power capable of taking out barriers in AoE which basically leaves you half the skills in the game to take out the defenceless Collectors.

[Arijharn]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
Anyone with ideas how to improve overall gameplay on Insanity, please post them. 

How about scaling the ability usage and frequency of the usage?
Like say for Vanguard's:
Normal: Pull/Warp
Hardcore: Pull/Warp/Charge
Veteran: Pull/Warp/Charge/Shockwave
Insanity: Pull/Warp/Charge/Shockwave/Stasis?

Have difficulty also scaling effect you with ammo powers as much as you effect them (so insanity has complete parity), and allow higher difficulties allow for better co-ordination between hostiles. Example; on Hardcore and above, maybe two Vanguard's will work together to lock you down or whatever. If you're in cover, say one shockwave's you to stagger and the other one Charge's you.

[Arijharn]

What do I want as an Adept against protected enemies?

a) Useful abilities that work as advertised, but at diminished effectiveness: If I throw a merc who has his shields up I want to throw the merc. I don't want to just stagger the fool.

Connected to that; I want an object's mass to actually be worth something as well, therefore, a pull->throw is still going to do less damage to a protected enemy than what it would do if he wasn't protected at all.

[Siegdrifa]

Arijharn wrote...

What do I want as an Adept against protected enemies?
a) Useful abilities that work as advertised, but at diminished effectiveness: If I throw a merc who has his shields up I want to throw the merc. I don't want to just stagger the fool.
Connected to that; I want an object's mass to actually be worth something as well, therefore, a pull->throw is still going to do less damage to a protected enemy than what it would do if he wasn't protected at all.

Just saying, letting throw actualy work on protected ennemy make all the class with throw overpowered and nearly invicible.
Even if it doesn't deal much damage, with a so shot CD (some at 1.5 if i remember right) would make you spam throw all the time to forbide ennemy to attack you.

I wouldn't mind a throw effectif against protected ennemy and even dealing damage to their shield if they hit an objet, only if it was on a long cd so you can't do it all the time.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 31 janvier 2011 - 08:35 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Evilsod wrote...

So now what you're saying is the game was balanced around Normal and no attempt was made to really balance it for the higher difficulties and the Adept got the short straw making him lose considerably more effectiveness than other classes but yet isn't gimped, its the rest who are overpowered? Well its 5 against 1 and theres no chance its gonna change...

I'm not saying the game is designed around normal - the devs said this. The rest ain't overpowered, they're just not affected by defenses, i.e. not well designed.

The only reason the defense system works more for Adept is because it blocks almost all his powers. So instead people like you basically started playing it as you would an aggressive Soldier (aside from the fact the other classes can't use as many guns there isn't much difference in the damage they deal anyway) with the Biotics acting as duplicates for Concussive Shot and claiming the Adept isn't gimped because he can play in exactly the same way as a Soldier would play instead of a unique playstyle.

Warp works on two out of three defense types, Singularity works and drains all. There is no class in ME2 that can do the same except Sentinels. Biotics are 10x more powerful and effective compared to CS. And yes, Adepts can play pretty much like an Soldier (it seems everyone using a weapon is a gimped Soldier), I'll say the Soldier is gimped because they cannot use powers actively (only buffing him/herself) hence Adepts are Soldier+ (Guns and Biotics instead of only guns)

As for the speedrun of the Collector Ship attack it was impressively fast till i realised you'd Stasis'd both Scions to make them fall off the map which basically meant your only opponents were balled up groups of 3-4 Collectors. Any class can take Stasis and use it to lame both Scions and Reave is really the only power capable of taking out barriers in AoE which basically leaves you half the skills in the game to take out the defenceless Collectors.

Isn't hard at all now is it. The Adept uses biotic powers and his/her squad to get stuff done fast and easy. What is it that makes the Adept gimped precisely?

Arijharn wrote...

What do I want as an Adept against protected enemies?
a) Useful abilities that work as advertised, but at diminished effectiveness: If I throw a merc who has his shields up I want to throw the merc. I don't want to just stagger the fool.
Connected to that; I want an object's mass to actually be worth something as well, therefore, a pull->throw is still going to do less damage to a protected enemy than what it would do if he wasn't protected at all.

The amount of damage taken is completely irrelevant - the option to have Pull and Throw work on protected enemies completely breaks the game: Adepts will never ever use Singularity, Warp or bonus power - instead they just Pull and Throw everything (every 1.6 seconds). Not only will powers like Pull, Throw, Slam, Neural Shock become massively OP - they will be the best powers around. Why would a Vanguard bother to charge someone if they can just pull them into the air and shoot them without enemies firing back? What use is ARush if you can permanently Neural Shock entire rooms? Why would one Cloak - with all enemies disabled there's no need to make yourself invisible. Why activate Tech Armor? Why use drones? Total game breaker.

You can get some idea if you look at the Grunt's LM Krogan fight in the Banzai video. Adept takes on 4 Krogan at close range without cover. The only reason you can survive is removing their defenses asap and keep em disabled (Throwing em to the ground every couple of seconds). That fight basically ended the moment armor was removed. Adept is at risk when enemies have defenses - not when they're gone. Throw working on armored Krogan needs more than 20 Krogan to have something you can call a fight (and it isn't possible to render more enemies in ME due to hardware limitations (of consoles)).

The brilliance of the ME2 system is that it allows enemies to be tossed around, but not permanently. Defenses have to be removed first. This can be done using (bonus) powers, weapons and/or squadmates but requires more time thus Pull and Throw cannot be used non-stop. All powers have their specific uses, and all are powerful in their own way, without rendering the others obsolete. That's good design. Most other classes have one power that works (is most effective) in all situations - easy to use and play with, but bad design (all other powers are (almost) redundant).

Soldiers are strongest spamming ARush, Sentinels Assault Armor, Vanguards Charge - they can use 5 powers yet use only one. That is bad design, why bother giving those classes other powers if they only decrease their potential when they chose to use em (i.e. all other powers are gimped). Adepts are best using all their powers combined.