667 réponses à ce sujet

[JediMB]

I suppose my... mistake... was that I played Adept and Vanguard in Vanilla ME2 as my first classes.

I think I'd have enjoyed Adept more now, with...

1) More experience with the game
2) All squad abilities unlocked (especially Stasis)
3) Powerful DLC weapons to strip down defenses with

Fact remains, though, that most of the things that would make the class more enjoyable for me are in no way class-exclusive. They're also a great part of what made my Soldier playthrough on Insanity such a breeze compared to my Adept playthrough on Veteran.

Modifié par JediMB, 31 janvier 2011 - 12:06 .

[Arijharn]

Well obviously the abilities would have to be rebalanced from how they are now if they were effective even while under protection, I didn't think I had to say that outright but I appear to be mistaken.



I don't want to be overpowered, but I do think how systems work now penalises an Adept more than any other class out there.

[vekkth]

finished first insane as a soldier + mattock. very funny, not hard at all. can play superagressive and die due to double space over obstacle into 4 collectors in suicide tube. still laugh.

now play as a sentinel, with locust. harder at start, after lvl4 armor not hard at all, a LITTLE bit boring. armor precast - empty clip - pull - heavywarp - armor blast - armor recharge (squad CD get recharge) repeat pull-warp or warp-pull if defenses present. cover with area reave if you need alternatives - still not necessary - normal cycle is more effective. gets much easier in time since squad points and weapon upgrades affect your effectiveness a lot.

played as vanguard on normal, fun, but permacharge get repeating. going to try adept next if the game wont get boring in general.



actually, think that soldier is most fun class to play due to very different playstyles with same build available. actually, best is to mix them since ammo is always an issue with widow and mattock. cant wait for ME3 to finish it with her.

[kumquats]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
Soldiers are strongest spamming ARush, Sentinels Assault Armor, Vanguards Charge - they can use 5 powers yet use only one. That is bad design, why bother giving those classes other powers if they only decrease their potential when they chose to use em (i.e. all other powers are gimped). Adepts are best using all their powers combined.

Although, charging towards singularity is so much fun. I have to agree. Without my squadis and their abilitys, Soldier, Sentinel and Vanguard would be boring

hm.. I really want to try out the Adept on Insanity now.

[Evilsod]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Warp works on two out of three defense types, Singularity works and drains all. There is no class in ME2 that can do the same except Sentinels. Biotics are 10x more powerful and effective compared to CS. And yes, Adepts can play pretty much like an Soldier (it seems everyone using a weapon is a gimped Soldier), I'll say the Soldier is gimped because they cannot use powers actively (only buffing him/herself) hence Adepts are Soldier+ (Guns and Biotics instead of only guns)

Infiltrators, Vanguards, etc, they have there own styles of play. Assassination Cloak creates a style of play for the Infiltrator, as does the Charge for the Vanguard. ARush lets the Soldier drop them from a distance very quickly and precisely (heightened) or play more aggressively (hardened) or somewhere between the 2. If the Adepts playstyle is somehow at its best when it mimics the Soldier, the Adept has been implemented badly or the defence system has.

Isn't hard at all now is it. The Adept uses biotic powers and his/her
squad to get stuff done fast and easy. What is it that makes the Adept
gimped precisely?

You lamed the 2 enemies that make that encounter actually difficult. With the Scions alive and having to be dealt with properly the encounter goes from completely trivial to very dangerous, especially with the enemies set up perfectly for AoE attacks and death drops all around.

[Siegdrifa]

Evilsod wrote...

 If the Adepts playstyle is somehow at its best when it mimics the Soldier, the Adept has been implemented badly or the defence system has.

It's not the case.... even if it's a possibility it stay a possibiliy for play style sake, not the only way to play it ...

When the soldier will be able to pull at the same time on the left and on the right of the battle field, holding 1 / 5 ennemi in the air by his own skill, give me call.

[Evilsod]

I wasn't aware the Adept could either since they'd all have defences up and laugh your Pull or Throw off. In the event they didn't have defences up I suppose what the Soldier could've done is throw up Adren Rush and use it to casually put a Cryo Ammo bullet into each of them and ice them up or Inferno Ammo to make them all panic and burn to death.



And no its not the only way to play it, but being heavily reliant on weapons seems to be the only way everyone who argues its not gimped play and as such, criticise anyone who thinks the Adept, the biotic master, should have more effective skills.

[Siegdrifa]

Evilsod wrote...

I wasn't aware the Adept could either since they'd all have defences up and laugh your Pull or Throw off. In the event they didn't have defences up I suppose what the Soldier could've done is throw up Adren Rush and use it to casually put a Cryo Ammo bullet into each of them and ice them up or Inferno Ammo to make them all panic and burn to death.

And no its not the only way to play it, but being heavily reliant on weapons seems to be the only way everyone who argues its not gimped play and as such, criticise anyone who thinks the Adept, the biotic master, should have more effective skills.

Each class in the game share the same minimum equipement to face alone all mob :
heavy pistol / SMG.
It's enough to finish the game with every class.

If you want effective biotic power against ennemy's defence, warp / heavy singularity works.
If you want more, no need, for the adept the ennemy stop to be acting dangerous when he loose his defence while it can remaine actively dangerous with other class.

No need more effectiveness against defence.

Defence is just a matter of few shot, it's even shorter when you combine with warp....

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 31 janvier 2011 - 03:19 .

[Roxlimn]

Arijharn:



Anything that throws targets is a potential insta-kill power on most levels in ME2. Anytime there's a ledge, that thing you can throw is dead. It's better than headshotting because the cooldown is less, you don't aim as much, and you can actually kill targets from behind cover.



If you have Throw Field, we're talking multiledge kills here.



Throw actually already damages all defenses. It damages Barriers the most, and staggers all targets. It already has a lesser effect. Anything more than that, and it's functionally acquired what you want most out of Throw - instakill and CC power.



Do people not even try using the powers anymore? I swear, most players here who complain abuot the Adept sound like they haven't even played the thing.

[MercenaryRQ]

I have to say i like the way adept/biotics got changed from ME1 to ME2. thought maybe they could have made throw and pull work on armor too. on the other hand warp is just fine for it imo.

I played my adept on insanity with energy drain and found it quiet easy, since it takes the shield on "normal" enemys in one shot (i think at lvl 2 already) and restores your own (saved me a few times and also works on geth/mec hp). the cool down is also pretty short which helps for bigger guys like the geth hunter/prime etc. personaly i like the aoe drain as you knock down the shield of a few guys in one shot leaving them open for aoe throw and such.

i never really felt the need to stop something from getting up on me, so i never tried stasis. thought after reading so much about it here i think i give it a try lol.

Modifié par MercenaryRQ, 31 janvier 2011 - 09:48 .

[Lycidas]

When I think about what I'm actually missing when playing the Adept it basically boils down to:
- Ammo Powers I know they don't do all that much but they are fun to use. Cryo on an Adept just sounds fun but there is no way to use it. Thats why I think Ammo Powers should not be class specific.
- Stasis is the perfect "oh **** button" for the Adept but the fact that it is available for every class is kind of diminishing its fun for me. It just spells master of biotics to me and would have given together with Singularity bit more profile to the class. If I could I would replace Shockwave with Stasis for the Adept.

Modifié par Lycidas, 01 février 2011 - 08:00 .

[Evilsod]

Stasis is just broken. Its ridiculous hearing people praise the new system for reducing the Adepts effectiveness and in the same sentence praising Stasis. It works regardless of protection, it works on almost every enemy in the game, its broken and enhances damage 6 fold which makes it even less usable since you can't avoid the bug and freezes enemies in place on moving platforms so they can fall to there death when it wears off.

[kstarler]

Evilsod wrote...

Stasis is just broken. Its ridiculous hearing people praise the new system for reducing the Adepts effectiveness and in the same sentence praising Stasis. It works regardless of protection, it works on almost every enemy in the game, its broken and enhances damage 6 fold which makes it even less usable since you can't avoid the bug and freezes enemies in place on moving platforms so they can fall to there death when it wears off.

You can actually avoid the stasis damage bug by waiting until the enemy has fallen completely to the ground. At this point, they are no longer  considered "friendly" and will take normal, rag doll enhanced damage, as was originally intended by the developers.

[Stammwuerze]

Roxlimn wrote...

Arijharn:

Anything that throws targets is a potential insta-kill power on most levels in ME2. Anytime there's a ledge, that thing you can throw is dead. It's better than headshotting because the cooldown is less, you don't aim as much, and you can actually kill targets from behind cover.

If you have Throw Field, we're talking multiledge kills here.

Throw actually already damages all defenses. It damages Barriers the most, and staggers all targets. It already has a lesser effect. Anything more than that, and it's functionally acquired what you want most out of Throw - instakill and CC power.

Do people not even try using the powers anymore? I swear, most players here who complain abuot the Adept sound like they haven't even played the thing.

Nope. I threw an enemy a lot of times about 20m into the room, he lost about 30% health and got back on his feet.
Same with throwing them againt the ceiling. The only thing that kills them is a nice cliff or abyss, but that isn't that common, plus you need the right angle.
Throw is nice, a lot of fun, but it is not doing enough damage. When an enemy is thrown across the room, his head hitting a couple of boxes, and splashes against the wall, he should be dead.
A bit offtopic: the amount in Newton is a bit underwhelming, or to put it bluntly, wrong measured. 

Throw does not a lot of damage against barriers and shields. 
Instakill? Only in a very specific situations.

I just started another run with the Adapt on insanity, just to get all my import games covered for ME3.
The only power so far worth using is singularity, warp is a plain joke. Even later in the game with a full developed warp, it is just too weak.
The reason why so many fellow gamers here spout around things like "l2p" or "The Adapt is very playable" is the simple fact, that the DLC weapons are overpowered. 
Nice videos like the ones from Bozorgmehr are only possible because guns are far superior to powers.
If he had use "normal" weapons it wouldn't be such a nice thing to watch at all.

A bit cry more on my part? I don't think so. I chose the Adapt, because I didn't want to use guns 80% of the time.
I don't want my powers to be a mere finisher or asset to the noise-machines. 
Balancing is very difficult, I must admit that. I would like to cripple the Adapt completely in regards to guns and pep up his biotic skills. Make powers usable against armor, suggested a few time in this thread would be a thing to consider, too.

I hope Bioware changed a lot of their concept regarding class abilities. Turning around Mass Effect 3 to be more RPG and less shooter.

P.S. excuse my english, it is not my mother-tongue.

Modifié par Stammwuerze, 01 février 2011 - 11:12 .

[mcsupersport]

With Adept heavy singularity Scions are easy, because it holds and staggers them, so you are free to do whatever you want around them. Husks are easy as well, even with armor drop a heavy singularity and just shoot off the armor and watch them fly and die. Heavy singularity will hold Scions, ShadowBroker, all bosses, most mini bosses and almost all peons except Protected Varren, Loki, Geth Primes, and Heavy Mechs.



The only thing needed to allow an adept to rule the battlefield is ONE unprotected guy. Why one, because he is a warp bomb waiting to happen, and that bomb will strip the protections from others and then the fun begins. As someone who has done a no shooting Adept run through Hardcore, I can easily say Adepts don't need guns, but they do speed things up a bit because sometimes one or two shots can end the battle quicker.



It takes some learning how to really use the powers, but once you figure out Singularity holds your enemies, Pull floats them for bombing, throw gets them out of your way, and Warp strips protections and bombs, then the game becomes easy even on Insanity. For different flavors you can add Shotgun, Sniper, or Assault rifles on the DCS for varied playstyle from in your face blasting to sit back scoping and power spamming. No other class offers this extreme versatility all with strong backing of powers for when you don't have ammo, or just don't want to use it.

[Schneidend]

Stammwuerze wrote...

I just started another run with the Adapt on insanity, just to get all my import games covered for ME3.
The only power so far worth using is singularity, warp is a plain joke. Even later in the game with a full developed warp, it is just too weak.

Warp is meant to take out Barriers and trigger Warp Bombs. You're not meant to kill people with it by itself on Insanity. No damage power can reliably do that on Insanity.

The reason why so many fellow gamers here spout around things like "l2p" or "The Adapt is very playable" is the simple fact, that the DLC weapons are overpowered. 
Nice videos like the ones from Bozorgmehr are only possible because guns are far superior to powers.
If he had use "normal" weapons it wouldn't be such a nice thing to watch at all.

Solo, no DLC weapons, no heavy weapons:

A bit cry more on my part? I don't think so. I chose the Adapt, because I didn't want to use guns 80% of the time.
I don't want my powers to be a mere finisher or asset to the noise-machines.

With squadmates, Shepard never even fires his gun:

[Stammwuerze]

@Schneidend

First Link:

He cuts scenes out while fighting multiple times. Plus, does that looks like fun to you?



Second Link:

His squadmates are doing most of his work. When I play a game, I want to be the protagonist, not my teammates to fill that role (although, Miranda has quite the potential).



I never wanted to argue about if it is possible or not. My core proposition is, that the Adapt is too much soldier on insanity. And that is just poor design on Bioware's side.

I never said, that I use warp to kill things - throw is far better and has a much shorter cooldown.

[Evilsod]

kstarler wrote...

You can actually avoid the stasis damage bug by waiting until the enemy has fallen completely to the ground. At this point, they are no longer  considered "friendly" and will take normal, rag doll enhanced damage, as was originally intended by the developers.

Yes but a) you shouldn't have to and your squad may still shoot them in that time.

Hold on a second. Why exactly does the squad list show his exp required being 2300ish for the next level? Given that it never changes from 1000 i can only wonder what other unknown changes are active in his games. His shields always seem to recharge earlier than mine do (though considering they weren't recharging properly at all earlier any is a bonus).

Modifié par Evilsod, 02 février 2011 - 12:17 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

@Schneidend



Of course collector vessel is a playground for the adept. Not at all typical of gameplay for most missions.



All the videos of the "Adept is the most powerful force in the universe" variety involve the adpet doing lots and lots and lots and lots of shooting.



Of course the adept is very limited in what squadmates he can let tag along too.



The "soldier" classes (soldier, vanguard, infiltrator) play the same on all difficulties because they were designed around shooting and weapons are the bomb in ME 2. The adept was designed around biotics usage and so becomes a gimped soldier instead of the biotic master in insanity.

[kstarler]

Evilsod wrote...

kstarler wrote...

You can actually avoid the stasis damage bug by waiting until the enemy has fallen completely to the ground. At this point, they are no longer  considered "friendly" and will take normal, rag doll enhanced damage, as was originally intended by the developers.

Yes but a) you shouldn't have to and your squad may still shoot them in that time.

Hold on a second. Why exactly does the squad list show his exp required being 2300ish for the next level? Given that it never changes from 1000 i can only wonder what other unknown changes are active in his games. His shields always seem to recharge earlier than mine do (though considering they weren't recharging properly at all earlier any is a bonus).

A) You don't have to, because Stasis is a bonus power. If you think it is imbalanced, don't use it.
It's a fair point, but the window is so small, especially against large enemies like Scions and YMIRS, that you really only see this bug at very close range. With the exception of Grunt, most squad mates tend to keep their distance from enemies. While it is possible that the enemy's protections will drop more than they otherwise would, you won't see the single shot stripping all defenses from a squad mate like you do with an upclose shotgun blast from Shepard, for instance. Is it possible that the enemy will die more quickly as a result from squad fire? Sure, it's possible. Is it likely? Not really.

EDIT: Grumpy, repeating the same argument about weapons in ME2, without ever acknowledging or providing evidence to counter the arguments that I and others have provided proving you are incorrect is really, really tiresome, and it doesn't make you any more right than you were when you first posted it some 3 or 4 pages back. We understand that you are disappointed that the Adept in ME2 doesn't play like the Adept in ME1, but neither Adept ever played without firing a weapon, and the developers themselves agreed that the way Adepts played in ME1 was both tedious and overpowered. So please stop posting the same tired, untrue argument over and over. Adepts are not Mages, and Mass Effect is, and has always been, an RPG/Shooter hybrid.

Modifié par kstarler, 02 février 2011 - 12:42 .

[Schneidend]

Stammwuerze wrote...

@Schneidend
First Link:
He cuts scenes out while fighting multiple times. Plus, does that looks like fun to you?

Second Link:
His
squadmates are doing most of his work. When I play a game, I want to be
the protagonist, not my teammates to fill that role (although, Miranda
has quite the potential).

1) He wasn't using any
squadmates. His ability to fight is going to be limited because he
purposefully limited himself, especially in an area like the Collector
Ship platforms, which is a dangerous scenario for EVERY class, not just Adept.

2)
Squadmates are there to assist you. That's where the "mate" comes from.
How much of the work was done by the squadmates is subjective. I see
Shepard dropping Warp Bombs and doing a considerable portion of the damage without ever firing a single shot and I say
Shepard is doing most of the work. If he'd actually been firing the Vindicator he would have been able to strip a Barrier with a single three-round burst.

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

@Schneidend

Of course collector vessel is a playground for the adept. Not at all typical of gameplay for most missions.

Staggering enemies with Singularity and dropping Warp Bombs is typical gameplay for all missions involving Adepts/Liara. Enemies with Barriers just make it easier.

All the videos of the "Adept is the most powerful force in the universe" variety involve the adpet doing lots and lots and lots and lots of shooting.

What? That's blatantly untrue. The second video I posted had Shepard never firing a single shot, and the other had minimal shooting.

Of course the adept is very limited in what squadmates he can let tag along too.

Also erroneous. Taking squadmates with Pull and Throw just happens to be optimal in most scenarios. This is true for all classes. Miranda/Thane plus Jack/Jacob/Samara are powerful combinations simply because they enable non-Adept/Sentinel players to use the Warp Bomb and allow Adept/Sentinel players to Warp Bomb even more frequently.

[Doctah T]

If you don't like the way that adepts play on insanity, don't play insanity. People have proven over and over again that adepts can wreck house on insanity, even without guns. Why do people ignore that?

[The Spamming Troll]

kstarler wrote...

EDIT: Grumpy, repeating the same argument about weapons in ME2, without ever acknowledging or providing evidence to counter the arguments that I and others have provided proving you are incorrect is really, really tiresome, and it doesn't make you any more right than you were when you first posted it some 3 or 4 pages back. We understand that you are disappointed that the Adept in ME2 doesn't play like the Adept in ME1, but neither Adept ever played without firing a weapon, and the developers themselves agreed that the way Adepts played in ME1 was both tedious and overpowered. So please stop posting the same tired, untrue argument over and over. Adepts are not Mages, and Mass Effect is, and has always been, an RPG/Shooter hybrid.

you and your obsession for video evidence......

i agree with grumpy, evilsod, and stammweurz on basically everything theyve written in here so far. i dont have a video to explain why tho. enemy protections turned the adept into a pathetic attempt at being the biotic master, crowd control king that they are meant to be. no video or story you can put to gether would make me think otherwise. i honestly dont know how you can think the adept is anywhere near the effective what-should-be classes like infiltrators and vangaurds. (i agree ME is a RPG/shooter, but ME2 is most definately a shooter with some minor RPG elements.)

enemy protections + adepts =

Doctah T wrote...

If you don't like the way that adepts
play on insanity, don't play insanity. People have proven over and over
again that adepts can wreck house on insanity, even without guns. Why do
people ignore that?

im wondering why people like you think we havent played the game before.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 02 février 2011 - 01:14 .

[kstarler]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i agree with grumpy, evilsod, and stammweurz on basically everything theyve written in here so far. i dont have a video to explain why tho. enemy protections turned the adept into a pathetic attempt at being the biotic master, crowd control king that they are meant to be. no video or story you can put to gether would make me think otherwise. i honestly dont know how you can think the adept is anywhere near the effective what-should-be classes like infiltrators and vangaurds. (i agree ME is a RPG/shooter, but ME2 is most definately a shooter with some minor RPG elements.)

enemy protections + adepts =

Ignoring the first part, I understand and respect that, in your opinion, the Adept in ME2 isn't as good as the Adept in ME1.

I'm talking about the arguments that are being presented to support the opinions being espoused. If we can get to the base that it is one opinion vs. another, then we will have actually gotten somewhere. But making statements that are completely baseless and factless to support an opinion is something that I don't respect, especially when the evidence to counter those statements is readily available.

EDIT: To clarify, if this thread were opinion vs. opinion, I wouldn't bother to post here, because I have my opinion and others have theirs. My posts are to provide assistance where folks are asking for it, clarity when folks aren't sure how to do "X", or the provide facts that disprove misstatements. I don't care that folks have a different opinion from me, I care when they say things that are obviously untrue.

Modifié par kstarler, 02 février 2011 - 01:25 .

[Schneidend]

I enjoy the sight of forum posters making it easy to tell they're trolls.



...That is a joke.