667 réponses à ce sujet

[Lycidas]

Siegdrifa wrote...
I think, tweaking throw to make it works against ennemy defence (effectiv on shield / barrier and not effectiv against armor) on a longer cd like shockwave would be a better start.
In ME2 they choose to make warp, the power working on everything, but  throw every 6 / 8 seconde would have been enough to affect ennemy shield and use to push back incoming danger.

I think this would be a bad idea because:
- Throw on a longer cooldown would make a Pull Throw combo infirior to Pull Warp in any case.
- Area Throw would be ridiculously powerful.
Remember in many areas Thow is an instant kill.

[Siegdrifa]

Lycidas wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...
I think, tweaking throw to make it works against ennemy defence (effectiv on shield / barrier and not effectiv against armor) on a longer cd like shockwave would be a better start.
In ME2 they choose to make warp, the power working on everything, but  throw every 6 / 8 seconde would have been enough to affect ennemy shield and use to push back incoming danger.

I think this would be a bad idea because:
- Throw on a longer cooldown would make a Pull Throw combo infirior to Pull Warp in any case.
- Area Throw would be ridiculously powerful.
Remember in many areas Thow is an instant kill.

Yep, my suggestion is intended to enforce cc / defence / effectiveness against ennemys with defences and diminish cc / defence / spam against ennemy without defence, why? because
1) pushing away imminent danger is a lacking defence adept when upgrading to insanity
2) way to kill / one shot ennemy when they have no defence or cc them are already numerous
When ennemy don't have defence, i find throw ridiculusly overpowered, its one shoting them and you can keep spaming it again and again and again.

Of cause, when i saiy tweaking, it imply damage modification to make sure throw field is not overpowered.


It's my point of view but, i find no intrest in one shoting by pressing just one button; warp explosion is already one of that kind, but 1.5 sec for throw when it can kill that quicly, it's a little over the line.
I like the "throw" idea a lot, but not when it's "fly me to the moon and let me play among the stars" ... i would like to use it to smash ennemy against the wall and kill them that way if they are weakened, not playing golf.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 02 février 2011 - 12:43 .

[Lycidas]

Siegdrifa wrote...
Yep, my suggestion is intended to enforce cc / defence / effectiveness against ennemys with defences and diminish cc / defence / spam against ennemy without defence, why? because
1) pushing away imminent danger is a lacking defence adept when upgrading to insanity

I see where you're comming from but. I would not want to give away the way Throw is working atm for more cc against protected targets (Singularity / Stasis does a good job at that).

Siegdrifa wrote...
2) way to kill / one shot ennemy when they have no defence or cc them are already numerous
When ennemy don't have defence, i find throw ridiculusly overpowered, its one shoting them and you can keep spaming it again and again and again.

Hm...hard to agrgue with your opinion. IMHO on insanity Throw is good as is on nomal it might be a bit OP but thats the case for pretty much all the powers.

[Siegdrifa]

Lycidas wrote...
I see where you're comming from
 

May be not, i never accomplished an adept walkthrough under insanity difficulty.
But hearing many people complain about his lacking defence mainly due to not enough tool against ennemy defence, may be some tweaking could be done to please them without boosting too much adept on the battle field.

 I would not want to give away the way Throw is working atm for more cc against protected targets (Singularity / Stasis does a good job at that).

Even without stasis and without singularity against protected ennemy adept is still pretty playable.
But i don't remember throw being an effectiv power against protected ennemy, how much damage it inflict on shield ?

Hm...hard to agrgue with your opinion. IMHO on insanity Throw is good as is on nomal it might be a bit OP but thats the case for pretty much all the powers.

Well, it's always hard to argue opinion, because i prefer red colot doesn't mean i'm right or wrong, it's just an opinion.
You prefer to keep throw that way rather than using another combo, since there is another combo, even if it's a little less effectiv, that's why i would tweak throw power, trying to keep its utility for both case while making it no overpowered, but yeah, sacrificing his cd.

If it was possible i would have liked a throw effect like during RTC, like Samara vs Morinth, Morith get stuck on the glass by a powerfull biotic wave, i find it more appealing than shooting them to the sky like a ball.

I remember a game, (forgot the name), it was a Legacy of Khain game, at each level you switched between Khain and Raziel. Khain had telepathic power and i loved it.
First, when you used it on a target, it was struggling it in the hair, if you pushed "down" it was pulling the target, "up" was throwing; and "left / right" was throwing to that direction, very useful to send it against other mob, make them fall from a bridge, ampaling them on spike, throwing through windows and statue, i had lot of fun.
I could have killed them without using my sword, but, mixing both made beautifull fight to look at.
That's why i love using my gun to make good kill with the adept instead of pushing one button to make a fast but too easy kill.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 02 février 2011 - 07:15 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Evilsod wrote...

Infiltrators, Vanguards, etc, they have there own styles of play. Assassination Cloak creates a style of play for the Infiltrator, as does the Charge for the Vanguard. ARush lets the Soldier drop them from a distance very quickly and precisely (heightened) or play more aggressively (hardened) or somewhere between the 2. If the Adepts playstyle is somehow at its best when it mimics the Soldier, the Adept has been implemented badly or the defence system has.

Huh? I dunno how you play Vanguard and Infiltrator but they, well, shoot enemies (all the time). How does their playstyle differ from Soldiers? Soldier can snipe, with longer time dilation and doing more damage (if sniping is your thing you should not play Infiltrator - they're worse than Soldiers); and Soldiers can equip a shotty, rush towards enemies and fire (like Charge, but with a 140% damage bonus).

Adepts and Engineers have powerful CC abilities, they can disable enemies (and kill them) with those powers and they shoot. Quite different compared to the combat classes, but following your logic, Bioware should have removed all the other classes - they're only gimped Soldiers (i.e. losers), right?

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Of course the adept is very limited in what squadmates he can let tag along too.

Really? Can you be a little more specific? What squadmates are we talking about here, coz I cannot think of any. In case you haven't noticed, ME2 is a SQUAD based game - it's completely irrelevant what Shepard can do on his/her own, what matters is what the squad  as a whole can do.

The "soldier" classes (soldier, vanguard, infiltrator) play the same on all difficulties ...

So now you're arguing to dump all difficulty levels too? Yes, Soldiers can play on Dummy Mode and they can raise the bar all the way to Insanely Easy Mode. Great!

... because they were designed around shooting and weapons are the bomb in ME 2. The adept was designed around biotics usage and so becomes a gimped soldier instead of the biotic master in insanity.

Mass Effect is a SHOOTER - you're supposed to shoot no matter the class you're playing. All classes are designed around weapons, the difference is; some classes are a little better (more damage, easy aiming, no damage taken) at shooting, while the others have abilities to wreck havoc in different, more subtle and more fun and unique ways.

Evilsod wrote...

But thats really not the point is it. Every other Adept skill was balanced to barely affect anything with its defences up. The 'Adept rocks' crowd seem to hail this as well balanced while the other 5 classes are poorly balanced for Insanity. This same 'Adept rocks' crowd seems to abuse Stasis all it can in an effort to prove its point despite it being completely broken and rendering all that 'balance' irrelevant. Damage bug aside, it affects regardless of protection (understandable if it prevents damage). It affects almost every enemy in the game, including YMIR, Scions and strong named mini-bosses, completely broken. It puts the enemy in stasis, meaning its surely not even aware it was in stasis, yet immediately collapses to the ground after it ends.

You're mentioning a bonus power, Stasis has NOTHING to do with Adepts. If you read your own posts, I find it hard to believe you're this upset with the Stasis bug. You should love this power since you believe more massively OP ed powers, like ARush and Assault Armor, are great. You also want biotic powers to be effective against everything - Stasis gives you an idea how broken the game would become if Throw did work against everything for example (that would make Stasis look like a lousy power).

But since you think Stasis is needed, here are videos in which Adept doesn't need Stasis (or it wasn't available yet).

IFF Mission (solo) ; Suicide Mission Part 1 (solo) ; Suicide Mission Part 2 (solo); Dantius Towers ; Project Overlord ; Collector Ship ; Helping Miranda ; The Power of the Adept (except the two YMIRs at the end)

Schneidend already posted two other vids pre Stasis, you can find those and more videos (very few have Stasis involved btw) from other players in my sig.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Of course the adept is very limited in what squadmates he can let tag along too.

Actually, I found the Adept to be pretty good as far as squadmate choices went. Most of the time I try to strike a balance b/w tanking, firepower and cc in my teams, taking into account what type of enemies I'll be facing. In short, a lot of times what that means is I need to bring a warp bomb combo, since that is both firepower and cc. For the other classes, I usually need two teamates to do this (Sentinel only needs 1), but the Adept can handle all of this on his/her own, so all I usually need is just 1 other teammate either someone to tank, overload or shoot, while the third can basically be anything at all.

[The Spamming Troll]

Lycidas wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...
Yep, my suggestion is intended to enforce cc / defence / effectiveness against ennemys with defences and diminish cc / defence / spam against ennemy without defence, why? because
1) pushing away imminent danger is a lacking defence adept when upgrading to insanity

I see where you're comming from but. I would not want to give away the way Throw is working atm for more cc against protected targets (Singularity / Stasis does a good job at that).

who cares what ME2s singularity and stasis can do? ME3 might not even have shockwave, throw might be changed to "tug" for chipes sakes. i dont see how your so quick to jump the gun with that "no." why not allow the player to choose what ability affects protected enemies? couldnt throw be upgraded to work on protected enemies instead of stasis? this particular forum is pointless because there isnt discusion on builds becasue theres only one way to build a class in ME2. theres only topics on "what the hell happened to biotics" and "niftu cal is awesome" threads.

Lycidas wrote...

Siegdrifa wrote...
2) way to kill / one shot ennemy when they have no defence or cc them are already numerous
When
ennemy don't have defence, i find throw ridiculusly overpowered, its
one shoting them and you can keep spaming it again and again and again.

Hm...hard
to agrgue with your opinion. IMHO on insanity Throw is good as is on
nomal it might be a bit OP but thats the case for pretty much all the
powers.

personally, i dont think using throw and causing a half second stagger effect AT MAX is anything worth a label at all. you cant compare one ability working for 95% of your game to one that works at most 50%. throw on insanity is not as good as it is on normal. your drunk.

[Schneidend]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

who cares what ME2s singularity and stasis can do? ME3 might not even have shockwave, throw might be changed to "tug" for chipes sakes. i dont see how your so quick to jump the gun with that "no." why not allow the player to choose what ability affects protected enemies? couldnt throw be upgraded to work on protected enemies instead of stasis? this particular forum is pointless because there isnt discusion on builds becasue theres only one way to build a class in ME2. theres only topics on "what the hell happened to biotics" and "niftu cal is awesome" threads.

1) Stasis is imbalanced as it is, and it doesn't even kill enemies. Throw, on the other hand, can instantly kill enemies without defenses. How would making it capable of instant-killing fully defended enemies make the Adept balanced?

personally, i dont think using throw and causing a half second stagger effect AT MAX is anything worth a label at all. you cant compare one ability working for 95% of your game to one that works at most 50%. throw on insanity is not as good as it is on normal. your drunk.

No power works as well as it does on Insanity as it does on Normal. That's part of what makes Insanity "insane."

[The Spamming Troll]

Schneidend wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

who cares what ME2s singularity and stasis can do? ME3 might not even have shockwave, throw might be changed to "tug" for chipes sakes. i dont see how your so quick to jump the gun with that "no." why not allow the player to choose what ability affects protected enemies? couldnt throw be upgraded to work on protected enemies instead of stasis? this particular forum is pointless because there isnt discusion on builds becasue theres only one way to build a class in ME2. theres only topics on "what the hell happened to biotics" and "niftu cal is awesome" threads.

1) Stasis is imbalanced as it is, and it doesn't even kill enemies. Throw, on the other hand, can instantly kill enemies without defenses. How would making it capable of instant-killing fully defended enemies make the Adept balanced?

throw isnt the auto instakill ability you make it out to be. its only usefullness on insanity is when another ability has already been used. ive rarely instakilled enemies currently using throw. speaking about ME3, throw doesnt need to be an instakill, but aall im sayin is a mastered abilty with full upgrades better do more then stagger some random merc for half a second.

why does it seem that throwing a beach ball at a protected enemies head would be more effective CC then using a heavy throw?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 03 février 2011 - 05:35 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Really? Can you be a little more specific? What squadmates are we talking about here, coz I cannot think of any. In case you haven't noticed, ME2 is a SQUAD based game - it's completely irrelevant what Shepard can do on his/her own, what matters is what the squad  as a whole can do.

Why the ones that let him do the warp explosions effieicntly that you guys claim makes him Super-Duper Man.

Sadly the Sentinel has superior biotic bonuses and as such is the best warp bomber. The Sentinel can have the strongest warp and thus the adept is inferior if you want to be a warp bomb machine. I guess that makes the Sentinel Super-Super-Duper Man.

The "soldier" classes (soldier, vanguard, infiltrator) play the same on all difficulties ...

So now you're arguing to dump all difficulty levels too? Yes, Soldiers can play on Dummy Mode and they can raise the bar all the way to Insanely Easy Mode. Great!

Oh, you must not be a native English speaker.

No, I said the soldier classes always play the same no matter what difficulty you chose to play on. That is not true of the adept. On insanity he becomes a gimped soldiers because most of his biotics are blocked by protections in most places.

Understand now?

Mass Effect is a SHOOTER - you're supposed to shoot no matter the class you're playing. All classes are designed around weapons, the difference is; some classes are a little better (more damage, easy aiming, no damage taken) at shooting, while the others have abilities to wreck havoc in different, more subtle and more fun and unique ways.

Sorry, no. The adept is not designed around shooting, he is designed around biotics.

The Adept, outfitted with L5x implants, is a biotic specialist, capable of disabling and killing enemies with raw biotic power. With their unique talents, Adepts are the only class able to deploy the Singularity power, a lethal biotic trap capable of snaring multiple enemies. When enemies hide behind cover Adepts are able to Pull them, exposing them for a deadly follow-up attack. Additionally Adepts are able to throw the opposition with their Push ability, making cliffs and ledges lethal opportunities. While they lack advanced combat training, Adepts are the best class at defeating enemies without firing a shot.

Adepts get no ammo powers. The adept's powers are all biotic powers. His passive increases his biotic power, not his ability to shoot. Please note that he is a biotic specialist, not an arms specialist. He should not have to be constantly shooting.

Modifié par Grumpy Old Wizard, 03 février 2011 - 06:20 .

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Schneidend wrote...


1) Stasis is imbalanced as it is, and it doesn't even kill enemies. Throw, on the other hand, can instantly kill enemies without defenses.

Nope. SOMETIMES throw can insta-kill and sometimes not. Letal ledges exist in only so many places. And of course there is the deal of not being able to thow an enemy at all if he is protected.

personally, i dont think using throw and causing a half second stagger effect AT MAX is anything worth a label at all. you cant compare one ability working for 95% of your game to one that works at most 50%. throw on insanity is not as good as it is on normal. your drunk.

No power works as well as it does on Insanity as it does on Normal. That's part of what makes Insanity "insane."

So the soldier classes have their powers reduced to the equivalent of the teeny-tiny stagger effect of throw huh?

[Lycidas]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
who cares what ME2s singularity and stasis can do? ME3 might not even have shockwave, throw might be changed to "tug" for chipes sakes. i dont see how your so quick to jump the gun with that "no." why not allow the player to choose what ability affects protected enemies? couldnt throw be upgraded to work on protected enemies instead of stasis?

Well I guess there is no arguing that a Throw thats working on protected targets would be considerably more powerful than anything we have at the moment. I just can not see how this could be balanced out. Having Throw on a higher cooldown would effectively destroy what Throw is today and turn it into something totally new and I just happen to like what it is now.

The Spamming Troll wrote...
this particular forum is pointless because there isnt discusion on
builds becasue theres only one way to build a class in ME2. theres only
topics on "what the hell happened to biotics" and "niftu cal is
awesome" threads.

IMHO there is more than one way do build an Adept but I agree that the differences are slim. I think thats more a problem of being able to spend too many skill points on too few skills.

Lycidas wrote...
IMHO on insanity Throw is good as is on
nomal it might be a bit OP but thats the case for pretty much all the
powers.

The Spamming Troll wrote...
personally, i dont think using throw and causing a half second stagger effect AT MAX is anything worth a label at all. you cant compare one ability working for 95% of your game to one that works at most 50%. throw on insanity is not as good as it is on normal. your drunk.

Thats not what I said at all. IMHO on normal difficulty Throw is OP. The fact that you have to strip defences first on insanity to use Throw for the kill is what makes it ballanced in my book.

Schneidend wrote...
1) Stasis is imbalanced as it is, and it
doesn't even kill enemies...

I would not consider Stasis to be inbalanced as it is. Yes there is the damage bug but you don't have to abuse it other than that its fine IMHO. What makes it better than using AR, Cloak, Drone or Charge to escape one enemy?

Modifié par Lycidas, 03 février 2011 - 06:23 .

[Praetor Knight]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Adepts get no ammo powers. The adept's powers are all biotic powers. His passive increases his biotic power, not his ability to shoot. Please note that he is a biotic specialist, not an arms specialist. He should not have to be constantly shooting.

In my experience, the ammo powers that give the greatest benefit to Shepard are those that give a CC boost, which are better then purely damage improving Ammo powers. Damage improvement is icing on the cake from what I've seen playing.

So, from my experience, I rank the top five ammo powers like this:

• Inferno
• Squad Cryo
• Heavy Disruptor
• Squad Incendiary
• Squad Disruptor

Therefore, for the Adept, it is better to focus on CC powers, IMHO, since any SMG or Heavy Pistol is enough until you can get weapons training. And then the weapon class you choose would depend on you preferred playstyle.

[Lycidas]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Adepts get no ammo powers. The adept's powers are all biotic powers. His passive increases his biotic power, not his ability to shoot. Please note that he is a biotic specialist, not an arms specialist. He should not have to be constantly shooting.

If the Adept was not supposed to shoot much the class would not be equipped with a SMG and a heavy weapon. You are supposed to shoot less than the soldier classes an this is very true INHO.

[Schneidend]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Why the ones that let him do the warp explosions effieicntly that you guys claim makes him Super-Duper Man.

Sadly the Sentinel has superior biotic bonuses and as such is the best warp bomber. The Sentinel can have the strongest warp and thus the adept is inferior if you want to be a warp bomb machine. I guess that makes the Sentinel Super-Super-Duper Man.

Ashepts can set up Warp Bombs using their own powers. You could take Grunt and Zaeed with you and still be able to perform Warp Bombs.

The Sentinel gets +15% extra damage with Power Armor and -10% extra cooldown reduction with Guardian. But, if you take Guardian you can't take Raider, which puts Adept and Sentinel at equal footing for Warp damage if you're going for the shortest cooldowns as a Sentinel.

Most importantly, Sentinel doesn't have any powers that apply a biotic status effect. Sheptinels can't perform Warp Bombs with themselves, they need Jacob, Jack, or Samara to help them.

Oh, you must not be a native English speaker.

No, I said the soldier classes always play the same no matter what difficulty you chose to play on. That is not true of the adept. On insanity he becomes a gimped soldiers because most of his biotics are blocked by protections in most places.

Understand now?

The Soldier has to play more carefully on Insanity, as all classes do. All of th Adept's powers affect defended enemies. A stagger can be extremely useful against an enemy you're about to run up and shotgun to death, or are going to run away from. Still, the Adept Singularity -> Shoot -> Warp/Throw is an awesome combo on any difficulty. He clearly isn't gimped and we keep posting videos that are evident of this. You just keep ignoring them.

Sorry, no. The adept is not designed around shooting, he is designed around biotics.

The entire game is designed around shooting, and by extension so is the Adept. The Adept has guns. The difference is, on Insanity, the Adept only needs to use his guns to strip defenses, which only takes a few taps of the fire button, and then the biotic fury can begin in earnest.

The Adept, outfitted with L5x implants, is a biotic specialist, capable of disabling and killing enemies with raw biotic power. With their unique talents, Adepts are the only class able to deploy the Singularity power, a lethal biotic trap capable of snaring multiple enemies. When enemies hide behind cover Adepts are able to Pull them, exposing them for a deadly follow-up attack. Additionally Adepts are able to throw the opposition with their Push ability, making cliffs and ledges lethal opportunities. While they lack advanced combat training, Adepts are the best class at defeating enemies without firing a shot.

Biotic Specialist: Has the most biotic powers of any class in the game.

Killing Enemies With Raw Biotic Power: Warp, Throw. Even Singularity sometimes levitates enemies over cliffs and kills them. I almost always finish off Tela Vasir with a Singularity while she's at full Health. She coasts over the railing and falls to her death.

Without Firing A Shot: Again, AverageGatsby's video

Keep in mind, too, that the game was built around the default Normal difficulty. Insanity is just an extra. On Casual/Normal/Veteran, the Adept can easily run around never firing a shot.

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
So the soldier classes have their powers reduced to the equivalent of the teeny-tiny stagger effect of throw huh?

Concussive Shot, anyone?

The only other powers the Soldier has increase his damage-dealing abilities and offer some limited crowd control. As enemies have their Health and Defenses doubled or even tripled on Insanity, this does in fact diminish
the overall effect those abilities have.

Modifié par Schneidend, 03 février 2011 - 06:52 .

[Schneidend]

Sorry double post...

Modifié par Schneidend, 03 février 2011 - 06:51 .

[Siegdrifa]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Adepts get no ammo powers. The adept's powers are all biotic powers. His passive increases his biotic power, not his ability to shoot. Please note that he is a biotic specialist, not an arms specialist. He should not have to be constantly shooting.

Just quoting that.
Shooting is the minimum core mechanic to all classe, as would be slashing if all character in ME would use sword intead of gun.
You can't argue it's not a shooter when on a battle field it's only carryng guns and shooting.
May be you would like to see a jedi, carryng no weapon, only armed by his biotic ?

I find the adept 75% biotic 25% weapon powerfull enough, because the few weapon he have (only 2 at the begining) is enough to cover what is to come.
You can't blame good biotic player to be good shooter and using the best of biotic + their accurrancy for shooting.

No matter what people argue, all player who will be good at shooting will have an edge over other who just want to push a button to kill, and boosting biotic to cover the gape will just make the ones good at shooting totaly over powered and broken if biotic are too effective.


We are supposed to mix power and shooting to be effective.
And that's why i hate soldier, too much shooting, not enough power on his own.
I don't want to see adept being a 0% shooting and 100% biotic that would requier no skill at all to play, just a push button to be 100% effectiv, that's what i would call a bad design.

Modifié par Siegdrifa, 03 février 2011 - 12:00 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...

Why the ones that let him do the warp explosions effieicntly that you guys claim makes him Super-Duper Man.

Grumpy Old Wizard wrote...
Oh, you must not be a native English speaker.

Dunno what that has to do with anything, but yes, English isn't my native language, but yours can be improved a little too me thinks.

Sadly the Sentinel has superior biotic bonuses and as such is the best warp bomber. The Sentinel can have the strongest warp and thus the adept is inferior if you want to be a warp bomb machine. I guess that makes the Sentinel Super-Super-Duper Man.

Do you know the difference between Adepts and Sentinels?

Of course the adept is very limited in what squadmates he can let tag along too.

Adepts are limited and Sentinels are better warp bombers?

Sentinels cannot warpbomb without squadmates, and they cannot warpbomb as fast as Adepts can.

Sentinel fully upgraded, 50% cooldown reduction depends entirely on squad. Best Warpbomb potential limits use to Jack and Samara/Morinth who have their passive maxed. Sentinel can detonate 12 Warp bombs per minute.

Adept without squadmates can detonate 11 Warp bombs per minute.

Using squadmates (one with Pull and one with Warp - no passive needed btw) can add 8 warp explosions.

Adept + squad = 19 vs Sentinel + squad = 12

No, I said the soldier classes always play the same no matter what difficulty you chose to play on. That is not true of the adept. On insanity he becomes a gimped soldiers because most of his biotics are blocked by protections in most places.

The Soldier hasn't got difficultly levels - the Adept does, but that's something you don't like. Soldiers can one-shot everything on Casual and Insanity, i.e no increase in difficulty.

Understand now?

Sorry, no. The adept is not designed around shooting, he is designed around biotics.

The Adept is a soldier who can use biotic powers.

Adepts get no ammo powers. The adept's powers are all biotic powers. His passive increases his biotic power, not his ability to shoot. Please note that he is a biotic specialist, not an arms specialist. He should not have to be constantly shooting.

You keep ranting about ammo powers being great (which they are not) - please post some arguments instead of all this nonsense. Have you played ME1?

Hey man, whasup? You're playing Mass Effect 1, eh?
- Yeah, I'm playing Adept and it's great!
What's an Adept exactly?
- Adepts are soldiers who can use biotic powers.
Biotic powers?
- Yeah, like Lift, Throw and Singularity.
Sounds cool! How do they work exactly? Can you really create a black hole? That would be awesome!
- Lift will levitate enemies. Throw, well, throws enemies away from you. And Singularity levitates enemies.
Huh? Singularity only levitates enemies? You mean it works just like Lift does?
- Not exactly like Lift, but now that you mention it - they do have some resemblance.
OK, now tell me how you use those biotic powers.
- I'm playing on Insanity you know, the hardest difficulty! I use Singularity and Lift to levitate all enemies. That's great don't you think? They can't fight back!
You mean those biotic powers can disable all enemies?
- Yeah, that's why you have Lift and Singularity. You can use both to catch everything anywhere. WHOA Biotics rule!!!
OK, so you use biotic powers to disable enemies, then what?
- I kill them.
But how?
- I shoot them.
Right, but I assume biotic powers can do more than disabling enemies alone. Do they allow you to kill enemies faster?
- No, well there's Warp, but overall I have to shoot enemies for minutes to kill them.
Minutes? But surely those biotic powers don't last forever?
- No, but when effects wear off you simply recast - rinse and repeat.
So basically you're shooting helpless enemies who are floating around?
- Yeah.
That sounds more like an execution to me - it's like playing a shooter in which all enemies are disarmed and tide to posts.
- Who cares. It's great butchering defenseless enemies; you have unlimited ammo and don't have to bother reloading too!
I think I understand why you play on the hardest difficulty level. Instead of executing helpless enemies with a single bullet, you prefer to empty an entire clip at point blank range. You enjoy the butchering, don't you.
- Very much!
Sadist!

[Aynien]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

You keep ranting about ammo powers being great (which they are not) - please post some arguments instead of all this nonsense. Have you played ME1?

Hey man, whasup? You're playing Mass Effect 1, eh?
- Yeah, I'm playing Adept and it's great!
What's an Adept exactly?
- Adepts are soldiers who can use biotic powers.
Biotic powers?
- Yeah, like Lift, Throw and Singularity.
Sounds cool! How do they work exactly? Can you really create a black hole? That would be awesome!
- Lift will levitate enemies. Throw, well, throws enemies away from you. And Singularity levitates enemies.
Huh? Singularity only levitates enemies? You mean it works just like Lift does?
- Not exactly like Lift, but now that you mention it - they do have some resemblance.
OK, now tell me how you use those biotic powers.
- I'm playing on Insanity you know, the hardest difficulty! I use Singularity and Lift to levitate all enemies. That's great don't you think? They can't fight back!
You mean those biotic powers can disable all enemies?
- Yeah, that's why you have Lift and Singularity. You can use both to catch everything anywhere. WHOA Biotics rule!!!
OK, so you use biotic powers to disable enemies, then what?
- I kill them.
But how?
- I shoot them.
Right, but I assume biotic powers can do more than disabling enemies alone. Do they allow you to kill enemies faster?
- No, well there's Warp, but overall I have to shoot enemies for minutes to kill them.
Minutes? But surely those biotic powers don't last forever?
- No, but when effects wear off you simply recast - rinse and repeat.
So basically you're shooting helpless enemies who are floating around?
- Yeah.
That sounds more like an execution to me - it's like playing a shooter in which all enemies are disarmed and tide to posts.
- Who cares. It's great butchering defenseless enemies; you have unlimited ammo and don't have to bother reloading too!
I think I understand why you play on the hardest difficulty level. Instead of executing helpless enemies with a single bullet, you prefer to empty an entire clip at point blank range. You enjoy the butchering, don't you.
- Very much!
Sadist!

LOL reading this, this video came into my mind

[tonnactus]

Warp for sure improves killing speed in the first game.And it was significant enough that many soldier players took it as a bonus talent...
And its still the only thing that actually kills enemies in combination with every biotic power that lift enemies.

Modifié par tonnactus, 03 février 2011 - 06:05 .

[khevan]

I think the main problem here is that people who don't like biotics in ME2 want them to act like biotics in ME1, where you can CC entire rooms and have no one shooting at you. While this was undeniably cool, it got to the point at around level 30-35 (about halfway thru the game) where this becomes completely OP, to the point where you cannot die unless you screw up.



ME2 Adept has alot of CC ability, but it's limited to one target, or a small number of targets...but it's a much faster cycle of casting powers. You can't control every enemy on the battlefield at once, but you can control alot of enemies. It provides a balance that I like, where I still feel like I'm using my biotics to toss people around, but I can't lockdown an entire room. That, tbh, got boring, especially with the low damage that the guns do, on insanity especially. I always play ME1 on Normal or Veteran, simply because the higher difficulty levels become WAAAAYYY too tedious. ME2, on the other hand, is always played on either Hardcore or Insanity, depending on my skill level with the class at hand. Adept and Sentinel on anything less than HC is a joke. Entirely too easy, way overpowered in fact.



Some people want a return to ME1 style biotics, which is fine for them, but I really don't want that. ME1 biotics were powerful, too powerful in fact, and trivialized the game, making it entirely too easy, and on the higher difficulty levels, it was just too tedious and boring. I prefer ME2's style, where it's harder, but more fun.



I'd be willing to consider a compromise, where ME3 takes a step or two towards something in the middle between ME1 and ME2 biotics, but I really don't want to go all the way back to ME1 gameplay.

[Bozorgmehr]

tonnactus wrote...

Warp for sure improves killing speed in the first game.And it was significant enough that many soldier players took it as a bonus talent...

Aynien wrote...

LOL reading this, this video came into my mind

Warp is used in this video, but it still requires an awful lot of shots to kill them - Warp only helps a little.

And its still the only thing that actually kills enemies in combination with every biotic power that lift enemies.

Are you talking about ME2? If so, you're wrong. All biotic powers can kill enemies and it's not needed to ragdoll em first (though it helps a lot). In ME2 biotic powers are deadly, ME1's are not. Something easily overlooked by those claiming biotic powers should render weapons useless for Adepts. Powers have improved drastically in ME2, they're not gimped and there's a much better balance between using powers and shooting:

ME1: Singularity, Lift, Warp, Shoot, Shoot, Shoot, Shoot, Shoot, Shoot, Shoot, Singularity etc
ME2: Singularity, Shoot, Warp, Shoot, Shoot, Singularity, Throw, Shoot, Pull, Throw, Shoot etc

[mcsupersport]

I wanted to do a speed run on adept to get the Shotgun spec on a completed run, so I dropped to Veteran to do it. Man that was the easiest play I have run in a long while. Being able to basically explode anyone, and make many fly with Singularity was a breeze. The ability to disable large sections of enemies with area pull, and then punt them into space with area throw made the game WAY too easy. I didn't like the protections stopping powers when I first encountered them, BUT after playing hardcore and insanity and going back to veteran, I have to say it is a really good idea to not have powers effect large groups who have protections. I would like to see more of an effect by some of the powers ie shockwave, concussive blast, and even throw to a degree, but to allow pull and throw to have full effect makes the game a joke to play as an adept for anyone who is any good at all.

[Kronner]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Hey man, whasup? You're playing Mass Effect 1, eh?
- Yeah, I'm playing Adept and it's great!
What's an Adept exactly?
- Adepts are soldiers who can use biotic powers.
Biotic powers?
- Yeah, like Lift, Throw and Singularity.
Sounds cool! How do they work exactly? Can you really create a black hole? That would be awesome!
- Lift will levitate enemies. Throw, well, throws enemies away from you. And Singularity levitates enemies.
Huh? Singularity only levitates enemies? You mean it works just like Lift does?
- Not exactly like Lift, but now that you mention it - they do have some resemblance.
OK, now tell me how you use those biotic powers.
- I'm playing on Insanity you know, the hardest difficulty! I use Singularity and Lift to levitate all enemies. That's great don't you think? They can't fight back!
You mean those biotic powers can disable all enemies?
- Yeah, that's why you have Lift and Singularity. You can use both to catch everything anywhere. WHOA Biotics rule!!!
OK, so you use biotic powers to disable enemies, then what?
- I kill them.
But how?
- I shoot them.
Right, but I assume biotic powers can do more than disabling enemies alone. Do they allow you to kill enemies faster?
- No, well there's Warp, but overall I have to shoot enemies for minutes to kill them.
Minutes? But surely those biotic powers don't last forever?
- No, but when effects wear off you simply recast - rinse and repeat.
So basically you're shooting helpless enemies who are floating around?
- Yeah.
That sounds more like an execution to me - it's like playing a shooter in which all enemies are disarmed and tide to posts.
- Who cares. It's great butchering defenseless enemies; you have unlimited ammo and don't have to bother reloading too!
I think I understand why you play on the hardest difficulty level. Instead of executing helpless enemies with a single bullet, you prefer to empty an entire clip at point blank range. You enjoy the butchering, don't you.
- Very much!
Sadist!

SO true.

[Stammwuerze]

Uhhhh fictional dialogues. What's next? Cat pictures and ASCII posts? To this point it was a really nice discussion. It is not really helping your cause, Bozorgmehr, that you start to belittle someone with an another opinion. I thought of you as an intelligent adult with a solid an well informed opinion.