667 réponses à ce sujet

[tonnactus]

You are right.There is no point in most heavy "evolutions" of powers except ammo powers,where the heavy version make actually an aoe damage...

[Evilsod]

Well the Ammo powers are a completely different thing entirely. More to the point they actually improve by more than the generic '1 more level' syndrome. Honestly if it wasn't for the Area increase most skills wouldn't be worth the 4 points it costs to take them to max level given that they tend to give exactly the same increase you got for the previous 3 and 2 points, Pull being the perfect example. Incendiary goes from 40% to 60% damage and gets an AoE burst. Disruptor goes from 40% to 60% and gets some serious potential for overloading mechs. Armour Piercing and Warp are a bit debatable since they provide no other benefits.



Though tbh the biggest rip off point wise is the 'passive' boosts that your squad gets. Levels 1, 2 and 3 get you progressive increases in all areas. Lvl4 costs even more and only gets you a benefits in a single area and even then its only the next step up, not even a significant upgrade.

[The Spamming Troll]

does anyone agree that adepts(sent and engi too) shouldnt be limited to starting with sidearms? i dont understand the reason for it anyways in what ME has turned into, which is a shooter. if you take away each classes weapons,  they are all very comparable(minus soldier, but soldier is in a world of its own now). the adepts abilities arent better then the infiltrators or the engineers, so why do i start with the shiruken and the predator?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 10 février 2011 - 01:33 .

[Schneidend]

Because there's nothing at all wrong with the sidearm weapons?

[The Spamming Troll]

Schneidend wrote...

Because there's nothing at all wrong with the sidearm weapons?

your saying theres no difference between having only a pistol and SMG to having those weapons AND more? starting with the predetor and the shiruken untill you find tali is not the same as playing with a sniper rifle or a shotgun, or them all. you could also say theres nothing wrong with melee either. im not knocking the effectiveness of the weapons, im jsut looking for reasons why i dont use an actual firearm, if all i keep hearing is that ME is a shooter. can i say "gimped soldier" without having to explain why?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 10 février 2011 - 03:00 .

[thisisme8]

How is the Adept's abilities better than the Infiltrator's or the Engineer's?

Modifié par thisisme8, 10 février 2011 - 02:58 .

[The Spamming Troll]

thisisme8 wrote...

How is the Adept's abilities better than the Infiltrator's or the Engineer's?

they arent. they are roughly equal. but the infiltrator ALSO gets the sniper rifle. why is that?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 10 février 2011 - 03:03 .

[thisisme8]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

How is the Adept's abilities better than the Infiltrator's or the Engineer's?

they arent. they are roughly equal. but the infiltrator ALSO gets the sniper rifle. why is that?

Because when the designers made the game they thought it would be cool to have a character that specializes in sniping.  That was easy.

I should start a thread where I answer other people's questions too!

Modifié par thisisme8, 10 février 2011 - 03:47 .

[Lycidas]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

does anyone agree that adepts(sent and engi too) shouldnt be limited to starting with sidearms?

I have to agree here. Being limited to sidearms for half of the game really annoys me. Thats why I had more fun on my NG+ Adept than on a fresh start. I'd rather give away the heavy weapon and have an assault rifle from the beginning.

[Roxlimn]

The Spamming Troll:



ME has always been a shooter. Always. In fact, you had to shoot just as much as an Adept in ME1 as you did as a Soldier, since none of the powers killed anything. If anything, ME2 is less of a shooter than ME1 because you could actually kill enemies without using a gun. We just point this out to you as a possibility because for some reason, you can't use squadmate powers or bonus powers.



I do think that the Adept's power slate is better than the Infiltrator's, if the Infiltrator did not have a Sniper Rifle. He can't Warp Explosion on his own, for instance.





Evilsod:



Heavy Throw increases the lethality of Throw since you can use bare Throw more for instakills. Moreover, you can use Heavy Throw with Pull to kill enemies even in places that don't have ledges. For instance, I have used Pull+Heavy Throw to kill krogan in Grunt's loyalty mish. I even used it to kill the chief krogan. Harder to do that without Heavy Throw.



Also, Throw's damage to Barriers is significantly increased on the Heavy Evolution, so yes, it does have an effect on Throw when you're using it on enemies with defenses. I don't suppose you knew this? Doesn't hurt to test Heavy Throw on enemies with defenses before making blanket statements about it.

[termokanden]

I think it's perfect the way caster classes start with "sidearms". It's not a particuarly big handicap, considering how good those sidearms actually are. You can get very far with a pistol and an SMG. Later in the game you get to pick another type of weapon. I really don't see what's missing here.

[Evilsod]

Roxlimn wrote...

Heavy Throw increases the lethality of Throw since you can use bare Throw more for instakills. Moreover, you can use Heavy Throw with Pull to kill enemies even in places that don't have ledges. For instance, I have used Pull+Heavy Throw to kill krogan in Grunt's loyalty mish. I even used it to kill the chief krogan. Harder to do that without Heavy Throw.

Also, Throw's damage to Barriers is significantly increased on the Heavy Evolution, so yes, it does have an effect on Throw when you're using it on enemies with defenses. I don't suppose you knew this? Doesn't hurt to test Heavy Throw on enemies with defenses before making blanket statements about it.

Personally i just shoot the defences... it does more damage, but then who needs guns right? Alternatively i'd rather use Singularity(and shoot them) because it both drains defences and will also pick them up once its done so i can have a Throw prepared for the instant they get picked up.

Most enemies go flying when Pulled regardless of Throws level. By lvl3 they go a long way, Lvl4 you would just send them that little bit further out of the map, but they're already out of it anyway. Krogan... don't think i've been to Tuchanka yet but Krogan are significantly lacking in the rest of the game.

[Schneidend]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

your saying theres no difference between having only a pistol and SMG to having those weapons AND more? starting with the predetor and the shiruken untill you find tali is not the same as playing with a sniper rifle or a shotgun, or them all. you could also say theres nothing wrong with melee either. im not knocking the effectiveness of the weapons, im jsut looking for reasons why i dont use an actual firearm, if all i keep hearing is that ME is a shooter. can i say "gimped soldier" without having to explain why?

The classes that start with assault weapons are partly (or entirely, in the Soldier's case) "Combat" classes, like Grunt, Jacob, and Garrus.

Adepts didn't start with the ability to level up the Assault Rifle, Shotgun, or Sniper Rifle skills in the first game, either, and ME1 was still definitely a shooter. You couldn't kill an entire room of mercs by re-casting Singularity. You had to shoot them. ME2 works the same way on Insanity.

[termokanden]

ARs, SRs and shotguns are not infinitely better weapons. The combat classes just get more of a choice in weapons and fewer other abilities. Soldiers for example have one ability that doesn't involve shooting people: Concussive Shot. It's horrible. It makes perfect sense then that they can use more types of weapons (and therefore also have larger ammo reserves).

Modifié par termokanden, 10 février 2011 - 05:00 .

[Sailears]

Lycidas wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

does anyone agree that adepts(sent and engi too) shouldnt be limited to starting with sidearms?

I have to agree here. Being limited to sidearms for half of the game really annoys me. Thats why I had more fun on my NG+ Adept than on a fresh start. I'd rather give away the heavy weapon and have an assault rifle from the beginning.

This. My adept has AR and pistol as standard (no smg or heavy weapon). Bonus as shotgun.
There needs to be this element of choice IMO.

[Schneidend]

I can agree that choosing a loadout would be superior to what we have now, but one game can only do so much. ME1 didn't handle things much better, though, where Adepts couldn't even scope their sniper rifles without having a bonus power.

[Lycidas]

Schneidend wrote...

I can agree that choosing a loadout would be superior to what we have now, but one game can only do so much. ME1 didn't handle things much better, though, where Adepts couldn't even scope their sniper rifles without having a bonus power.

Sure but one can always hope for further improvements in the next game.

[Bozorgmehr]

Yeah, there must be choice. I don't see anything wrong in giving up heavy weapons and/or SMGs to have the ability to start with a shotgun. Adepts and the other casters should have limited options though, the combat classes ought to have more weapons or perhaps more advanced weaponry available to them. They are after all lacking in the power department.

Casters should rely on their powers first (weapons are there to support) and combatants should rely on weapons first (powers to support).

[The Spamming Troll]

thisisme8 wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

How is the Adept's abilities better than the Infiltrator's or the Engineer's?

they arent. they are roughly equal. but the infiltrator ALSO gets the sniper rifle. why is that?

Because when the designers made the game they thought it would be cool to have a character that specializes in sniping.  That was easy.

I should start a thread where I answer other people's questions too!

so your kindof dense. i dont know how i can make this question any more easier to understand. the infiltrators abilities are on par with an adepts, correct? so why does a class with the same skill set, get more weapons too?

Roxlimn wrote...

The Spamming Troll:

ME has always
been a shooter. Always. In fact, you had to shoot just as much as an
Adept in ME1 as you did as a Soldier, since none of the powers killed
anything. If anything, ME2 is less of a shooter than ME1 because you
could actually kill enemies without using a gun. We just point this out
to you as a possibility because for some reason, you can't use
squadmate powers or bonus powers.

I do think that the Adept's
power slate is better than the Infiltrator's, if the Infiltrator did
not have a Sniper Rifle. He can't Warp Explosion on his own, for
instance.

i dont care what you classify ME as. i could say ME needs more shooting and youll retort "but ME is an RPG." thats not an argument against why adepts start with sidearms. this isnt ME1 adept anymore. the adepts power slate is similar to infiltrators and vangaurds, but adepts dont get the same selection of weapons. obviously a sniper class takes a sniper rifle, but that doesnt explain why an adept uses sidearms.

termokanden wrote...

I think it's perfect the way caster
classes start with "sidearms". It's not a particuarly big handicap,
considering how good those sidearms actually are. You can get very far
with a pistol and an SMG. Later in the game you get to pick another
type of weapon. I really don't see what's missing here.

sidearms ARE good, but they certainly arent a shotgun, AR or sniper rifle. you can play the game with only meleeing to if you wanted to not have good guns. your forgetting EVERY class gets another weapon, not just adepts. not to mention the options of claymore and widow make those two classes extremely powerfull compared to adepts, engineers and sentinels.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Yeah, there must be choice. I don't
see anything wrong in giving up heavy weapons and/or SMGs to have the
ability to start with a shotgun. Adepts and the other casters should
have limited options though, the combat classes ought to have more
weapons or perhaps more advanced weaponry available to them. They are
after all lacking in the power department.
Casters should rely on
their powers first (weapons are there to support) and combatants should
rely on weapons first (powers to support).

choice is key, ofcorse. i really think ME2 limits a character alot. your stuck playing a biotic specialist with only half the available biotics. your stuck using sidearms. soldiers can use stasis and become effective adepts. ME2 is a mess.

i dont think you can say "but ME is a shooter" and then say "adepts shouldnt have decent weapons. abilities suck on insnaity so an adept is going to be nothing more then a crappy solider. hell, give soldier stasis and you dont need to play as an adept.

[termokanden]

Yeah every class gets another weapon and every character gets one bonus power. Soldiers still won't be as good at casting as adepts. Adepts will never be able to use as many weapons as a soldier.

Isn't that fair? Ultimately that's a matter of opinion I guess. I didn't think my adept was gimped in any way. I think Adrenaline Rush is too good, and I think Singularity is a bit random at times, but that has nothing to do with the weapons.

Modifié par termokanden, 10 février 2011 - 06:47 .

[The Spamming Troll]

its not fair, thats my point. i dont want the soldier to have less weapopns, i just want to 3 pistol classes to have REAL weapons(i actually think heavy weapons should be soldier exclusive.) say what you want about pistols and SMGs, and ill agree with you, they are decent firearms. but when i see all this talk about ME being a shooter, shepard being an elite space marine, and my hunger for drawing more blood, i cant help but wonder why im not using an assault rifle. sheaprd hasnt done enough in his career to handle a frickin avenger?

im also thinking the problem is any class can do what the adept can do whether by using stasis for CC or a decent squad setup for warp bombs. but on the other hand an adept will never be able to do anything other then spam singularity. altho kasumis cloak is kindof stealing the class skills. but really, the adepts just got crapped on in ME2. its awesome.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 10 février 2011 - 11:29 .

[thisisme8]

@ The Spamming Troll:

You're right! Maybe I'm being a little dense, and maybe you're being a little too serious... or maybe we're just a couple of grown men with big egos talking about video games.

Regardless, I think they are comparable at one point or another in the game. Certainly the Infiltrator feels a bit more powerful early on, but the Adept's powers are definitely more powerful later on in the game. Take the rifle away from the Infiltrator late-game and his powers pale in comparison to an equal level Adept. But who cares? It's a single player video game and some classes may be easier than others. Still the best $60 I've spent on a PC game in a long while.

edit:  just read your last post and wow.  Adepts aren't anything like what you describe.  Well, I mean: to you they might be, but not to me.  I can't really say you're doing it wrong but maybe you could play them....  different?  All I hear is gimped and worthless, yet I was a walking powerhouse as an Adept....  which is a dumb statement, really because I was pretty OP late-game regardless of class.

Final edit:  Oh, and I don't appreciate name-calling...  whether it is directed to me or anyone else...  so my questions is:  if you know the game was balanced around normal difficulty, yet you inist on complaining about the balance of powersets on Insanity, who is being dense?

Modifié par thisisme8, 11 février 2011 - 12:48 .

[Whatever42]

I'm doing my 2nd adept insanity run now. I've done a couple soldier insanity runs and an infiltrator. Personally, I find a solider a little dull in comparison to an adept. AR, shoot. AR shoot. AR shoot. AR punch. I keep it interesting only by running madly around making woo woo noises.

Adepts are much more fun.

That said, I modded this current game to give me all the weapons except the heavy. Hate heavy weapons. Was kind of fun at first, swapping back and forth. But when it came right down to it, I never exploit all my weapons. Sniper for bit. Locust. Maaaybe pull out the shotty once in a while. I think its maybe made it a bit more fun but not much. Stuff dies pretty fast either way. I should probably CQC a bit more, I know. Sitting in the back, you really don't need powers. But I still don't really see anything gimped here.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 11 février 2011 - 01:14 .

[The Spamming Troll]

thisisme8 wrote...

@ The Spamming Troll:

You're right! Maybe I'm being a little dense, and maybe you're being a little too serious... or maybe we're just a couple of grown men with big egos talking about video games.

Regardless, I think they are comparable at one point or another in the game. Certainly the Infiltrator feels a bit more powerful early on, but the Adept's powers are definitely more powerful later on in the game. Take the rifle away from the Infiltrator late-game and his powers pale in comparison to an equal level Adept. But who cares? It's a single player video game and some classes may be easier than others. Still the best $60 I've spent on a PC game in a long while.

edit:  just read your last post and wow.  Adepts aren't anything like what you describe.  Well, I mean: to you they might be, but not to me.  I can't really say you're doing it wrong but maybe you could play them....  different?  All I hear is gimped and worthless, yet I was a walking powerhouse as an Adept....  which is a dumb statement, really because I was pretty OP late-game regardless of class.

Final edit:  Oh, and I don't appreciate name-calling...  whether it is directed to me or anyone else...  so my questions is:  if you know the game was balanced around normal difficulty, yet you inist on complaining about the balance of powersets on Insanity, who is being dense?

if i couldnt talk about mass effect while i watch futurama, then whats this all been about?

the widow trumps anything the adept can do in late game, not to mention it still has the adepts weapons, probably has stasis to take care of the adepts CCing, and has a few abilities and ammo powers to boot.

how exactly do you "learn" to use throw on a protected enemy? you cant tell me theres no difference playing an adept on veteran and playing one on hardcore. i understand i can play on veteran or that the game is supposed to be played on normal. were not here discussing playing on normal. im not hateing on the game. i love throwing people around. i just dont want to be limited by some false mechanism to stop me from doing what im supposed to be doing. i honestly dont know how you can enjoy an adept and dealing with enemy protections.

insanity = enemy protections:blink:
enemy protections = adept isnt awesome.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 11 février 2011 - 01:29 .

[Ahglock]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

its not fair, thats my point. i dont want the soldier to have less weapopns, i just want to 3 pistol classes to have REAL weapons(i actually think heavy weapons should be soldier exclusive.) say what you want about pistols and SMGs, and ill agree with you, they are decent firearms. but when i see all this talk about ME being a shooter, shepard being an elite space marine, and my hunger for drawing more blood, i cant help but wonder why im not using an assault rifle. sheaprd hasnt done enough in his career to handle a frickin avenger?

im also thinking the problem is any class can do what the adept can do whether by using stasis for CC or a decent squad setup for warp bombs. but on the other hand an adept will never be able to do anything other then spam singularity. altho kasumis cloak is kindof stealing the class skills. but really, the adepts just got crapped on in ME2. its awesome.

As the game is currently designed I think it is fair.  The infiltrator gets the sniper rifle mainly because his class exclsuive power is kind of designed for it.  It would be like making a thief character in a fantasy game with a back stab power but not giving them knives or swords as their equipment.  While you can play the infiltrator without a sniper rifle, I think the clear intent of cloak is sniper set up.  The adept is actually more powerful than the infiltrator power wise IMO, so I don't see a issue.  Also how they designed the game pistols and SMGs means all enemy protections are covered, so what the adpet needs is covered fine.  Any other weapon past that point is more about extra ammo, and riding the gravy train, not about what the adpet needs. 

Now personally if I had designed the game, there would not be ammo powers and all the classes would have the same number of active powers.  They would just have different sources/effect.s  The soldier would have things like covering fire powers, maybe fortification style powers, maybe a kill shot power(does X damage in a single shot so not out of cover long etc.)  Then every class owuld start with every weapon, because I think its lame that shepard somehow got through basic training without learning how to use an assault rifle.