167 réponses à ce sujet

[Jamesnew2]

Brockololly wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...
 As I recall, for DA II, it seems that the Warden's tale and choices made on major points will be reflected in DA II. The default will be that of the Ultimate Sacrifice choice, and default does not mean canon; it is simply a default for DA II.

If the GameZone preview is anything to go by it would seem that the Dark Ritual  ending with Alistair on the throne is the "default" choice for those without Origins saves, amongst the other options they outlined.

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
Witch Hunt had nothing to do with your Warden... the Warden's story was already over, epilogued,  and left to your imagination.

I'm sorry but as Cassandra might say, thats bull****.

Witch Hunt has everything to do with your Warden- thats why the whole thing varies depending on what Warden you import into it. The experience there with Morrigan is different in terms of interaction and what you're able to do depending on your Warden. Its impossible for any of us to say whether the Warden's story is actually over. Its over with respect to the 5th Blight and killing the Archdemon. But thats as much saying Luke Skywalker's story is over when he blew up the Death Star or that the Bhaalspawn's story was over when it killed Sarevok.

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
The choices the Warden made that impact the years called "the  Dragon Age" are retained.  So there's nothing that's being disavowed or  abandoned.  The setting is the main character in the Dragon Age games,  no one person is the defining character.

Again, if they simply write off the Wardens that went through the Eluvian or handwave away the seeming impact of that choice when Morrigan returns, then yes, I would say that would be playing one big GOTCHA! card and disavowing the meaning of that choice as the player was presented it in WH.

But again, its the characters that make up the "Dragon Age." For me at least, it boils down to the characters- thats the reason I give a damn about the world of DA. Its not like Oblivion or the Elder Scrolls games where the world itself is a neat thing to explore; its through the characters and the PC's interactions with the characters that the world of Thedas has any kind of pulse.

And to me, when some big plot like the Dark Ritual is started at the end of Origins with the Warden and then left flapping in the breeze with no conclusion or consequence in sight, and your PC and the companions of Origins left to likely cameos and codex entries in the future, whats the point? Maybe the framed narrative in DA2 helps with having meaningful consequences to your actions, but for me, something like Morrigan and the DR should be dealt with down the road by the Warden(s). Simply shoving some new PC in there is just like meeting Bastila and Carth in KOTOR2 as the Exile or Aribeth in HotU- its devoid of any emotional engagement that was previously built up and becomes an academic exercise in seeing where the plot/timeline goes.

The story of DA may be about the overall timeline and "setting" but its via the characters and PC that the setting is worth anything to me. If meaningful, emotionally engaging resolution is provided before moving on, then great. But  when the characters and PCs simply become a revolving door style yearly roster update, while glaring loose ends and seemingly major plots and elements of player choice are left strewn about left and right, why should I give a damn anymore?

This man makes sense

[TMZuk]

In Exile wrote...

TMZuk wrote...
If you think that Overlord was good, then we really are in total disagreement what good RP is. For me it was a stressy mouseclicking excersise, with a ridiculous hover-craft. Lair of the Shadowbroker was all right, but extremely linear and also very stressy to play.

It had solid ambiance, a rather dark storyline, and a particularly interesting concept and execution. You're going to have to accept we have different tastes in games, which is why I think DA2 is going in the right direction with design changes and you don't.

That being said, what does "stressy" mean?

I can easily accept we have different taste in RPG's and maybe games in general. That's rather obvious by now.  And if you think the game is headed in the right direction, by all means. Good for you.  As I said earlier, only DA2's sales will determine wether the changes are appealing to the majority or not. Since I hope for Bioware to abandon this path, and turn back to the games of old, I can only hope the majority agrees with me.

Stressy? Heh, I'm not a native english speaker. I thought it was a common expression. Frantic. Stress-causing. Mouse-click fest. It even had platform elements; my most hated game-genre of all.

[TMZuk]

Brockololly wrote...

Selene Moonsong wrote...
 As I recall, for DA II, it seems that the Warden's tale and choices made on major points will be reflected in DA II. The default will be that of the Ultimate Sacrifice choice, and default does not mean canon; it is simply a default for DA II.

If the GameZone preview is anything to go by it would seem that the Dark Ritual  ending with Alistair on the throne is the "default" choice for those without Origins saves, amongst the other options they outlined.

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
Witch Hunt had nothing to do with your Warden... the Warden's story was already over, epilogued,  and left to your imagination.

I'm sorry but as Cassandra might say, thats bull****.

Witch Hunt has everything to do with your Warden- thats why the whole thing varies depending on what Warden you import into it. The experience there with Morrigan is different in terms of interaction and what you're able to do depending on your Warden. Its impossible for any of us to say whether the Warden's story is actually over. Its over with respect to the 5th Blight and killing the Archdemon. But thats as much saying Luke Skywalker's story is over when he blew up the Death Star or that the Bhaalspawn's story was over when it killed Sarevok.

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...
The choices the Warden made that impact the years called "the  Dragon Age" are retained.  So there's nothing that's being disavowed or  abandoned.  The setting is the main character in the Dragon Age games,  no one person is the defining character.

Again, if they simply write off the Wardens that went through the Eluvian or handwave away the seeming impact of that choice when Morrigan returns, then yes, I would say that would be playing one big GOTCHA! card and disavowing the meaning of that choice as the player was presented it in WH.

But again, its the characters that make up the "Dragon Age." For me at least, it boils down to the characters- thats the reason I give a damn about the world of DA. Its not like Oblivion or the Elder Scrolls games where the world itself is a neat thing to explore; its through the characters and the PC's interactions with the characters that the world of Thedas has any kind of pulse.

And to me, when some big plot like the Dark Ritual is started at the end of Origins with the Warden and then left flapping in the breeze with no conclusion or consequence in sight, and your PC and the companions of Origins left to likely cameos and codex entries in the future, whats the point? Maybe the framed narrative in DA2 helps with having meaningful consequences to your actions, but for me, something like Morrigan and the DR should be dealt with down the road by the Warden(s). Simply shoving some new PC in there is just like meeting Bastila and Carth in KOTOR2 as the Exile or Aribeth in HotU- its devoid of any emotional engagement that was previously built up and becomes an academic exercise in seeing where the plot/timeline goes.

The story of DA may be about the overall timeline and "setting" but its via the characters and PC that the setting is worth anything to me. If meaningful, emotionally engaging resolution is provided before moving on, then great. But  when the characters and PCs simply become a revolving door style yearly roster update, while glaring loose ends and seemingly major plots and elements of player choice are left strewn about left and right, why should I give a damn anymore?

Well put!

[ElvaliaRavenHart]

stickmanhenry wrote...

Does anyone else think Hawke's story isn't going to last just one game?
I mean he is going to somehow have to become involved with all the flemeth/morrigan hoo-hah, because if he isn't, by the time da3 rolls around his story will become largely pointless.

I think alot of players are wondering this.  I am.

[KyleOrdrum]

stickmanhenry wrote...

Does anyone else think Hawke's story isn't going to last just one game?
I mean he is going to somehow have to become involved with all the flemeth/morrigan hoo-hah, because if he isn't, by the time da3 rolls around his story will become largely pointless.

Think about how powerful Morrigan was by the WH dlc, and how powerful flemeth would have to be to scare her.  They could not even touch on it till DA3 and still use Hawke because he would need to already be a powerful character to even stand a chance.

[Brockololly]

stickmanhenry wrote...

Does anyone else think Hawke's story isn't going to last just one game?
I mean he is going to somehow have to become involved with all the flemeth/morrigan hoo-hah, because if he isn't, by the time da3 rolls around his story will become largely pointless.

My guess is that Hawke does something or precipitates some event that sets the stage for Morrigan's return and whatever it is she has brewing. WHether that means Hawke comes back or not is anybody's guess.

[Phoenix_Loftian]

I don't see why the Warden can't come back as some sort of Super Boss. That would be kind of cool to do. Even the dead Warden could just become zombified by having a demonic spirit take him/her over. They could get away from custom appearances by having the Warden just show up in an armor set with the helm intact. Plenty of people put armor sets that block their warden's face as the armor set to save with in both Origins and the DLC content.

I don't know, just a thought. Other games have main characters from previous games come into future titles as antagonists all the time and if Hawke's story is about a different point of view then that could mean that we see the Warden's choices as more negative from his prospective.

It seems to me like while Hawke can be influenced by the player, it's not the same as how the Warden was basically you. I'm a bit concerned about Hawke being the most important person in Thedas though. It makes it sound like he's gonna be a messiah of sorts.

[sevalaricgirl]

Here's the problem as I see it...

"Most assume their tale is far from complete..."

I'm an author and I'd never leave that as an ending because it alludes to the fact that there is going to be more in the future. Now this is both female warden and Alistair are Grey Wardens together. It would have been better written to say that Alistair and female warden went on to do great things for the Grey Wardens and not to have said they just disappeared. They could have easily written script that allows the player to use their imagination and to not have said that they just disappeared and their tale is far from complete.

Modifié par sevalaricgirl, 28 décembre 2010 - 11:18 .

[Malanek]

I believe there were far too many different endings and motivations possible for a compelling story to be written with the warden as a player in another game. I am very happy the warden is more or less done. Importing the choices the warden made is an intriguing, if ambitious, idea. It will be good to see the mark that your previous character has made on the world, hopefully some of them have real impact and are not trivialised.

[sevalaricgirl]

Malanek999 wrote...

I believe there were far too many different endings and motivations possible for a compelling story to be written with the warden as a player in another game. I am very happy the warden is more or less done. Importing the choices the warden made is an intriguing, if ambitious, idea. It will be good to see the mark that your previous character has made on the world, hopefully some of them have real impact and are not trivialised.

Yes, though I'd love to see my warden and Alistair together again, I don't have a problem with Bioware's direction.  I have a problem with their epilogue writing. 

[Malanek]

sevalaricgirl wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

I believe there were far too many different endings and motivations possible for a compelling story to be written with the warden as a player in another game. I am very happy the warden is more or less done. Importing the choices the warden made is an intriguing, if ambitious, idea. It will be good to see the mark that your previous character has made on the world, hopefully some of them have real impact and are not trivialised.

Yes, though I'd love to see my warden and Alistair together again, I don't have a problem with Bioware's direction.  I have a problem with their epilogue writing. 

I think I know what you mean. In general I like the epilogues, I want to know boradly what happens. However they need to keep epilogues directly regarding the player as vague as possible. They should avoid making any decisions on your behalf at all.

[Altima Darkspells]

Saibh wrote...

I think that you have an incredibly shallow, simple-minded, and petty reason for claiming why this new direction is being taken. It's one thing to not like it, it's another to try and find some scheming ulterior motive because you don't like the way their story is going.

To be fair, BioWare does seem to be taking a big ole crap on DAO, pointing out all its awfulness, etc. in order to justify their changes to DA2. 

[Heretical]

I'm not sure, because it seems like depending on your WH ending, the Warden will have a pretty large impact on the Flemeth/Morrigan story.

[sevalaricgirl]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I think that you have an incredibly shallow, simple-minded, and petty reason for claiming why this new direction is being taken. It's one thing to not like it, it's another to try and find some scheming ulterior motive because you don't like the way their story is going.

To be fair, BioWare does seem to be taking a big ole crap on DAO, pointing out all its awfulness, etc. in order to justify their changes to DA2. 

Agreed, especially when so many of us loved DAO.  I've played it 10 times and I have a very busy life.  I work in engineering and I'm an author but still found time to play it ten times because I love it so much.  I am sure there are many more out there like us who loved the game.

[Herr Uhl]

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I think that you have an incredibly shallow, simple-minded, and petty reason for claiming why this new direction is being taken. It's one thing to not like it, it's another to try and find some scheming ulterior motive because you don't like the way their story is going.

To be fair, BioWare does seem to be taking a big ole crap on DAO, pointing out all its awfulness, etc. in order to justify their changes to DA2. 

Which I don't recall has been said about the story of DAO, so I don't see what this has to do with the subject at hand.

[Heretical]

sevalaricgirl wrote...

Altima Darkspells wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I think that you have an incredibly shallow, simple-minded, and petty reason for claiming why this new direction is being taken. It's one thing to not like it, it's another to try and find some scheming ulterior motive because you don't like the way their story is going.

To be fair, BioWare does seem to be taking a big ole crap on DAO, pointing out all its awfulness, etc. in order to justify their changes to DA2. 

Agreed, especially when so many of us loved DAO.  I've played it 10 times and I have a very busy life.  I work in engineering and I'm an author but still found time to play it ten times because I love it so much.  I am sure there are many more out there like us who loved the game.

It has many flaws, that's undeniable, but that doesn't change it from being one of my favorite games.

[Victia]

I would like to think my wardens story will be resolved in the future, I romanced alistair and became queen, but here is what confuses/upsets me...at the end of awakening it says your warden disapears but when I played witch hunt I didnt go through the mirror with morrigan, so where the bell does she go! As far as I can see its one of 2 things a) bioware assumed you where a man romancing morrigan and couldn't be bothered planning for everyone else or you wardens story will continue indirectly (eg will will hear about and not see it)



I hope for the latter but fear it is the former

[Urazz]

Personally, I think we won't see the warden come back at all. Unless it's one that romanced Morrigan and went with her into the portal in Witch Hunt. Even then I doubt the warden will be playable and will probably just have a cameo appearance as an NPC with Morrigan with his face covered somehow and won't talk.

[henkez3]

I wont mind it if the warden never comes back to play an important role, that guy is a jerk.

[IRMcGhee]

Victia wrote...

I would like to think my wardens story will be resolved in the future, I romanced alistair and became queen, but here is what confuses/upsets me...at the end of awakening it says your warden disapears but when I played witch hunt I didnt go through the mirror with morrigan, so where the bell does she go! As far as I can see its one of 2 things a) bioware assumed you where a man romancing morrigan and couldn't be bothered planning for everyone else or you wardens story will continue indirectly (eg will will hear about and not see it)

I hope for the latter but fear it is the former

All Wardens eventually go to the Deep Roads for their Calling. I don't think that's common knowledge in Thedas, so I reckon that's what all the "Warden disappeared" epilogues mean (don't think it gives a timescale) . Brown bread, game over man etc

Modifié par IRMcGhee, 29 décembre 2010 - 02:49 .

[Felfenix]

Matchy Pointy wrote...

Am I one of the few who are happy to play a new character in DA2 and wh sees the warden's job as done, the blight ended?

I agree. I think it would be pathetic and dumb if we played our warden until... what do people want exactly? To play the warden until he or she dies of old age? The warden's adventure ended. Walked off into the sunset. Know when to quit.

I'm glad the entire Dragon Age series won't be some mary sue singular god-like character who travels to every place, fixing every problem, and is the only person in apparent existence who can get things done.

So glad Shepard is dying in ME3, too. Love ME and Shepard, but seeing things like the last trailer with the war of the worlds, and apparently everyone is like "When will Messiah Shepard save us!?" is facepalm. I hope the DA series doesn't end up ever overdeifying any main characters.

[Rhayth]

30 years give or take 5 yrs is the timetable for Wardens...not even 30 hense the give or take

[Mikka-chan]

I sort of wish that Witch Hunt had never came out, honestly. The ending for Origins: yes, it did have the "...and there are more adventures to come", but Throne of Bhaal had that, too, if you didn't take the God path, and people are calling it out as some sort of great ending game ("The adventure draws to a close, but there will be more to come" are the exact words, along with a note on more trials ahead).



People complain about Awakenings endings, but honestly, I didn't find them that different from the Origins in the whole "but there are still more adventures at hand (before you mysteriously disappear and DIEEEE)". Both games implied that you continued on your adventures for a while and stuff happened: my complaint is that Origins said some stuff happened and then Awakenings said some stuff happened and it was completely possible for the future that happened after Origins and the future that happened after Awakenings to have nothing in common.



Witch Hunt, though? There was no neat wrapped up ending for Witch Hunt (very little about that DLC was neatly wrapped up, though, so I suppose that is to be expected). Even a slide of "And then you went on and did other things, some which were nice and some which weren't, and then you died" would have been great. To me, Origins and Awakenings felt like they wrapped up my character, even if it wasn't the path I would have chosen for them. Witch Hunt, on the other hand, just sort of tossed my character out and about and left me confused. I don't think the Warden's story needs to be continued, and I am glad we're not playing the Warden again- I think it's good that we're moving to a new protagonist, and I'm looking forward to Hawke.



I can understand, though, the people that feel nothing was wrapped up in Witch Hunt. Because, well, it wasn't.

[Fault Girl]

sevalaricgirl wrote...

Here's the problem as I see it...

"Most assume their tale is far from complete..."

I'm an author and I'd never leave that as an ending because it alludes to the fact that there is going to be more in the future. Now this is both female warden and Alistair are Grey Wardens together. It would have been better written to say that Alistair and female warden went on to do great things for the Grey Wardens and not to have said they just disappeared. They could have easily written script that allows the player to use their imagination and to not have said that they just disappeared and their tale is far from complete.

100% agree, I would have been happy with that especially at the end of WH, would it have been hard to add some slides? Thats why I'm so annoyed, I cant wait for DA2 but still feel unsatisfied with how they left origins, just feels like they couldnt be bothered

Everyone keeps saying how you went off with Morrigan, MINE DIDNT, for many female players this isn't the case, or if they were going to use it as some sort of finale, should have let women go to.