95 réponses à ce sujet

[Kappa Neko]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Kappa Neko wrote...

My thoughts exactly! ALL the RPGs I've played until Mass Effect had no dialog control whatsoever!!

Then you haven't played many Bioware RPG's have you?

Nope, I haven't. ME was my first BioWare game. But just because their games have dialogue choices doesn't mean it's standard. As many people have pointed out, a lot of these dialogue options boil down to the same thing. So I might as well have automatic dialogue! Unless ME3 offers more instances where your answer really makes a difference, I don't see the point. I thought there were fewer identical responses than in ME1 (maybe I'm mistaken), so don't worry guys. BW is not going to cut dialogue "choices". it's their trademakr after all, right?

[darth_lopez]

wait Dialogue controls non-standard?

has only played BW Obsidian and Bethesda RPGs >.>

Modifié par darth_lopez, 30 décembre 2010 - 09:35 .

[Fredvdp]

Bocks wrote...

Are you joking? I love the untriggered dialogue. It was one of the things that made LotSB so great! I hope there's MORE of it throughout ME3.

I see where you're coming from, though. You're afraid Shepard will act too much unlike the Shepard you defined. Perhaps Bioware can help avoid this by adding an option at the beginning of ME3. It would be something like:

How should Shepard act during missions?
[] Ruthless
[] Serious
[] Focused
[] Energetic
[] Ethusiastic

If you pick Ruthless, perhaps Shepard would snap at his crew if they begin chatting in the middle of a battle, while if you pick Enthusiastic, Shepard would join in on the friendly banter, much like in LotSB. Or maybe, if an explosion occurs, serious Shepard wastes no time in understand what just happened, while an energetic Shepard would make a joke on it. This would be useful because you could decide how you wanted Shepard to act, and hence you know why you Shepard responds to his crew in the way he does during missions.

Instead of making that choice in the beginning of the game, perhaps random dialogue should depend on your paragon and renegade scores. If you've been a dick throughout the game your lines in-combat will be very dickish as well.

[KainrycKarr]

Really don't like the idea of more auto-responses...

[Nohvarr]

Scences don't flow as well without auto-responses, especially to things that's get the same reply anyways.

[Bocks]

Fredvdp wrote...

Bocks wrote...

Are you joking? I love the untriggered dialogue. It was one of the things that made LotSB so great! I hope there's MORE of it throughout ME3.

I see where you're coming from, though. You're afraid Shepard will act too much unlike the Shepard you defined. Perhaps Bioware can help avoid this by adding an option at the beginning of ME3. It would be something like:

How should Shepard act during missions?
[] Ruthless
[] Serious
[] Focused
[] Energetic
[] Ethusiastic

If you pick Ruthless, perhaps Shepard would snap at his crew if they begin chatting in the middle of a battle, while if you pick Enthusiastic, Shepard would join in on the friendly banter, much like in LotSB. Or maybe, if an explosion occurs, serious Shepard wastes no time in understand what just happened, while an energetic Shepard would make a joke on it. This would be useful because you could decide how you wanted Shepard to act, and hence you know why you Shepard responds to his crew in the way he does during missions.

Instead of making that choice in the beginning of the game, perhaps random dialogue should depend on your paragon and renegade scores. If you've been a dick throughout the game your lines in-combat will be very dickish as well.

Not everyone might like that though. Some people might prefer to act Renegade against their enemies and be Paragon towards their squadmates.

[Jaron Oberyn]

I'm amused by all of these costs that seem to suggest that me2 is free of all responses leading to the same outcome dialogues because it isn't. Again, go replay the game and pay more attention to the dialogue than the pew pew.



-Polite

[Bocks]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

I'm amused by all of these costs that seem to suggest that me2 is free of all responses leading to the same outcome dialogues because it isn't. Again, go replay the game and pay more attention to the dialogue than the pew pew.

-Polite

That's not what they're trying to point out. They're saying that ME2 is free of different looking options that make Shepard say the exact same thing regardless of what you choose on the dialogue wheel.

For example, in Mass Effect 1 after getting to Liara behind her energy field. You're escaping in the elevator and are given a choice of two different options to talk to Joker. Regardless of what option you chose, Shepard will always say "Joker! Get the ship secured and ready to go, on the double mister!", and Joker will always respond "Secured and aweigh, ETA 15 minutes". Though that might not be exactly the words spoken, that is basically what happens. As far as I can recall, this did NOT happen in ME2 at all, but that might just be me.

[Cyberfrog81]

Indeed, I have a crapload of ME2 playthroughs, and I've never noticed it.
So if it's there at all I can hardly consider it a grave issue.

Modifié par Cyberfrog81, 30 décembre 2010 - 04:12 .

[WidowMaker9394]

Some people are too picky...

[WidowMaker9394]

Bocks wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

I'm amused by all of these costs that seem to suggest that me2 is free of all responses leading to the same outcome dialogues because it isn't. Again, go replay the game and pay more attention to the dialogue than the pew pew.

-Polite

That's not what they're trying to point out. They're saying that ME2 is free of different looking options that make Shepard say the exact same thing regardless of what you choose on the dialogue wheel.

For example, in Mass Effect 1 after getting to Liara behind her energy field. You're escaping in the elevator and are given a choice of two different options to talk to Joker. Regardless of what option you chose, Shepard will always say "Joker! Get the ship secured and ready to go, on the double mister!", and Joker will always respond "Secured and aweigh, ETA 15 minutes". Though that might not be exactly the words spoken, that is basically what happens. As far as I can recall, this did NOT happen in ME2 at all, but that might just be me.

It happened on Feros as well. But it NEVER happened in Mass Effect 2.

[Jaron Oberyn]

Schneidend wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Reread my post. ME2 does have the "all responses leading to one outcome" dialogue. It may not be as prominent as in ME1, but it's there. Another addition to the dialogue changes in ME2 was the single response progression. As I said above, go talk to Miranda on the normandy and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

I didn't say ME2 didn't have any linear dialogue, only that it didn't trick me into thinking I had other options. When I talk to Miranda, I know exactly how many options I have.

My point was not that ME2 has no linear dialogue, only that ME2 doesn't waste my time trying to disguise it.

You don't get it do you? For the first 2-3 conversations with her it's completely linear. 100%. Only one option to progress the conversation, not "options". With that in place they might as well make it all automatic dialogue because there's basically no choice in options unless you're romancing her.

-Polite

[Jaron Oberyn]

Bocks wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

I'm amused by all of these costs that seem to suggest that me2 is free of all responses leading to the same outcome dialogues because it isn't. Again, go replay the game and pay more attention to the dialogue than the pew pew.

-Polite

That's not what they're trying to point out. They're saying that ME2 is free of different looking options that make Shepard say the exact same thing regardless of what you choose on the dialogue wheel.

For example, in Mass Effect 1 after getting to Liara behind her energy field. You're escaping in the elevator and are given a choice of two different options to talk to Joker. Regardless of what option you chose, Shepard will always say "Joker! Get the ship secured and ready to go, on the double mister!", and Joker will always respond "Secured and aweigh, ETA 15 minutes". Though that might not be exactly the words spoken, that is basically what happens. As far as I can recall, this did NOT happen in ME2 at all, but that might just be me.

Yes I know. That's exactly what I'm saying. That IS in ME2. Pay closer attention.

-Polite

[darknoon5]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Bocks wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

I'm amused by all of these costs that seem to suggest that me2 is free of all responses leading to the same outcome dialogues because it isn't. Again, go replay the game and pay more attention to the dialogue than the pew pew.

-Polite

That's not what they're trying to point out. They're saying that ME2 is free of different looking options that make Shepard say the exact same thing regardless of what you choose on the dialogue wheel.

For example, in Mass Effect 1 after getting to Liara behind her energy field. You're escaping in the elevator and are given a choice of two different options to talk to Joker. Regardless of what option you chose, Shepard will always say "Joker! Get the ship secured and ready to go, on the double mister!", and Joker will always respond "Secured and aweigh, ETA 15 minutes". Though that might not be exactly the words spoken, that is basically what happens. As far as I can recall, this did NOT happen in ME2 at all, but that might just be me.

Yes I know. That's exactly what I'm saying. That IS in ME2. Pay closer attention.

-Polite

But to a much smaller degree. I don't think there's a single moment in the game where 3 options all mean the same thing.

[Ryuukishi]

marshalleck wrote...

"Breaking immersion" is the catch-all phrase for "the developers did something I don't like" for people who are incapable of articulating the actual problem as they see it. It's completely meaningless now, made so by rote repetition and regurgitation on video game forums all across the internet.

YES. Same thing with the phrase "dumbed down."

[david-esp]

I think what Polite is trying to tell is that "3 options -> same respones / auto-dialog / only one option" are equivalent and they happen way more often in ME2 than in ME1, which I agree. I prefer the ME1 approach.

[Jaron Oberyn]

david-esp wrote...

I think what Polite is trying to tell is that "3 options -> same respones / auto-dialog / only one option" are equivalent and they happen way more often in ME2 than in ME1, which I agree. I prefer the ME1 approach.

Exactly. They're all the same. Whether it's the same response for all options, auto dialogue, or the linear option it's all predefined. The ends are the same, it's just the means that are different. Out of all of those I would at least prefer the 3 options = same outcome approach since it gives you the illusion that your in control rather than you watching your character interact with the game as if it's just a regular shooter. We have GoW for that Bioware. And they do a much better job. You stick to your guns and let them stick to theirs. 

darknoon5 wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Bocks wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

I'm amused by all of these costs that seem to suggest that me2 is free of all responses leading to the same outcome dialogues because it isn't. Again, go replay the game and pay more attention to the dialogue than the pew pew. 

-Polite

That's not what they're trying to point out. They're saying that ME2 is free of different looking options that make Shepard say the exact same thing regardless of what you choose on the dialogue wheel.

For example, in Mass Effect 1 after getting to Liara behind her energy field. You're escaping in the elevator and are given a choice of two different options to talk to Joker. Regardless of what option you chose, Shepard will always say "Joker! Get the ship secured and ready to go, on the double mister!", and Joker will always respond "Secured and aweigh, ETA 15 minutes". Though that might not be exactly the words spoken, that is basically what happens. As far as I can recall, this did NOT happen in ME2 at all, but that might just be me.

Yes I know. That's exactly what I'm saying. That IS in ME2. Pay closer attention. 

-Polite

But to a much smaller degree. I don't think there's a single moment in the game where 3 options all mean the same thing.

You just contradicted yourself. Again, play the game and pay closer attention to the dialogue. It is in ME2. It may not be as prominent as it was in ME1, but ME1 didn't have auto dialogue throughout the game which is basically the same. Two different methods, the same exact outcome. 

-Polite

[TheNexus]

Bioware has to strike a balance between game flow and decisions. LotSB was significantly faster paced than a majority of ME2, so it was really their first forray into that kind of pacing. Assuming that's how ME3 is going to flow, they have some time to figure out how to make us feel involved without grinding the pace of the game down.

[Schneidend]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

You don't get it do you? For the first 2-3 conversations with her it's completely linear. 100%. Only one option to progress the conversation, not "options". With that in place they might as well make it all automatic dialogue because there's basically no choice in options unless you're romancing her.

-Polite

But her conversations always have investigate options. If it automatically just proceeded through the conversation you wouldn't be able to ask for more details about her mother, father, genetic enhancements, etc. Or, if you don't want to hear that stuff, skip it.

What I begrudge Mass Effect 1 for doing was putting three "choices" on the right side of the wheel that all say the same thing. It just wastes my time thinking about a "decision" that I'll have to remember for later playthroughs, thinking I'll get a different response next time.

[Vena_86]

As good as LotSB was, the automatic dialogue really bothered me. Also the way how interrupts are supposed to replace actualy dialogue is just bad and annoying. Sure it looks more cinematic, but if I want to watch a movie without having control over my character, then I'll just do that, instead of having a wanna be movie in video game graphics.
They said that they want to move away from dialogue and I think LotSB is an indication of how that will look, which makes me a sad panda.
It also bothered me when the game took away control from me like when you talk to TIM and next thing you know, you are on a collector ship without finishing some more researches first, freeing grunt etc. or like you automatically fly to the shadow broker system in LotSB and even land on the planet (sort of). You are the commander but can not even command where your ship goes and what you do next...meh.
Beeing railroaded is against everything RPGs stand for and what made them popular in the first place. I really hope BioWare will get down from that cinematic trip and remember what the strong points of games are and what the strong points of movies are. I don't want ME3 end up like Black Ops where your interaction is almost completely irrelevant and you basically just watch a bad movie.

Modifié par Vena_86, 30 décembre 2010 - 07:11 .

[Bocks]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

Bocks wrote...

PoliteAssasin wrote...

I'm amused by all of these costs that seem to suggest that me2 is free of all responses leading to the same outcome dialogues because it isn't. Again, go replay the game and pay more attention to the dialogue than the pew pew.

-Polite

That's not what they're trying to point out. They're saying that ME2 is free of different looking options that make Shepard say the exact same thing regardless of what you choose on the dialogue wheel.

For example, in Mass Effect 1 after getting to Liara behind her energy field. You're escaping in the elevator and are given a choice of two different options to talk to Joker. Regardless of what option you chose, Shepard will always say "Joker! Get the ship secured and ready to go, on the double mister!", and Joker will always respond "Secured and aweigh, ETA 15 minutes". Though that might not be exactly the words spoken, that is basically what happens. As far as I can recall, this did NOT happen in ME2 at all, but that might just be me.

Yes I know. That's exactly what I'm saying. That IS in ME2. Pay closer attention.

-Polite

Considering I actually gave you an example and you didn't, and having played as both Renegade and Paragon Shepard, I can only conclude it doesn't happen in ME2 as often as it did in ME1, if at all. But since you're convinced that it happens in ME2, I'd like you to point out the time it happened.