128 réponses à ce sujet

[Bigdoser]

IanPolaris wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

I rather liked her and her epilouge slide made me like me even more. I don't know why people make a big deal out of velanna. Yes she killed humans without remorse but hey grey wardens are filled with murderers, king slayers and all sorts. This is just my opinion on this matter.

For the most part, the even the criminals you see either in the Grey Wardens or workiing with them, know, understand and even regret (in some cases) what they've done.  Specifically look at Daveth, Sten, or even Duncan.

Velanna shows none of their redeeming qualities.  None of them.  In fact her very reason for wanting to be a Grey Warden is sheer selfishness which IMHO disqualifies her right there. 

-Polaris

That does not mean all of them regret what they did thats just a few people.  How do you know there are not grey wardens just like Velanna? Also I don't consider it bad that she joined to find her sister, also as I said with enough effort I found out that she is a decent person imo my favourite part is when I gave her the book.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 29 décembre 2010 - 09:47 .

[IanPolaris]

Bigdoser wrote...

That does not mean all of them regret what they did thats just a few people.  How do you know there are not grey wardens just like Velanna?

I can't imagine anyone like Velanna being recruited except in absolute dire circumstances and/or the Wardens were order to recruit them.  Velanna actually reminds me a bit of Sophia Dryden actually except Sofia Dryden has more redeeming qualities.   A Grey Warden has to be willing to sacrifice their very soul to defeat the darkspawn which requires (no matter how harsh those means are) a degree of willing self-sacrifice that Velanna never shows.

-Polaris

[Bigdoser]

IanPolaris wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

That does not mean all of them regret what they did thats just a few people.  How do you know there are not grey wardens just like Velanna?

I can't imagine anyone like Velanna being recruited except in absolute dire circumstances and/or the Wardens were order to recruit them.  Velanna actually reminds me a bit of Sophia Dryden actually except Sofia Dryden has more redeeming qualities.   A Grey Warden has to be willing to sacrifice their very soul to defeat the darkspawn which requires (no matter how harsh those means are) a degree of willing self-sacrifice that Velanna never shows.

-Polaris

Tell that to the people who did the DR, anyway I said my share on how i view things I know you won't agree with me and I won't agree with you because in my books of you can destroy darkspawn very well your good in my books. Also if I can get along with them thats just another plus.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 29 décembre 2010 - 09:50 .

[IanPolaris]

Bigdoser wrote...

Tell that to the people who did the DR, anyway I said my share on how i view things I know you won't agree with me and I won't agree with you because in my books of you can destroy darkspawn very well your good in my books. Also if I can get along with them thats just another plus.

The DR is different.  The DR does destroy the Archdemon if not the soul of the Old-God that was corrupted.  It might be that this is a mistake, but since no Grey Warden has to die, the Grey Warden(s) are still around to correct the issue later....and the blight is still ended.  Otherwise the Grey Warden (at least one) has to die and that potential dies with them.

I view the DR as understanding the difference between today and tomorrow.  It's not at all the same thing.

-Polaris

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Wow, I don't see the Loghain/Velanna comparison at all. And since the Orlesian nationality is not a race, you can't say that Loghain's hating on Orlesians is racism.

Me hating the Danish is racism, even though Swedish and Danish are the same "race".

As to Velanna, I dislike her. First Bioware character since BG2 that has made me feel that way.

[errant_knight]

I'd hoped to be able to bring her to justice without killing her, and so spared, her only to find myself with no good option at all. Next time she's dying straight away. She's a completely unrepentant mass murderer, and I have yet to create a PC that thinks that's the kind of thing you can just let go.

Modifié par errant_knight, 29 décembre 2010 - 10:15 .

[Bigdoser]

errant_knight wrote...

I'd hoped to be able to bring her to justice without killing her, and so spared, her only to find myself with no good option at all. Next time she's dying straight away. She's a completely unrepentant mass murderer, and I have yet to create a PC that thinks that's the kind of thing you can just let go.

The city elf did mass murder but he/she got lucky.

[Herr Uhl]

Bigdoser wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I'd hoped to be able to bring her to justice without killing her, and so spared, her only to find myself with no good option at all. Next time she's dying straight away. She's a completely unrepentant mass murderer, and I have yet to create a PC that thinks that's the kind of thing you can just let go.

The city elf did mass murder but he/she got lucky.

You decide if he/she is unrepentant. And you have far less choice over the situation than Velanna who just attacks humans for being human.

[Bigdoser]

That does not change that fact that the city elf killed quite alot of people, heck some people may demand justice but other people may point out that you where captured.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 29 décembre 2010 - 11:14 .

[Herr Uhl]

Bigdoser wrote...

That does not change that fact that the city elf killed quite alot of people, heck some people may demand justice but other people may point out that you where captured.

You still miss the "unrepentant". If you're going for murdering people, every single warden is a mass murderer if the CE is that.

[Sarah1281]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I'd hoped to be able to bring her to justice without killing her, and so spared, her only to find myself with no good option at all. Next time she's dying straight away. She's a completely unrepentant mass murderer, and I have yet to create a PC that thinks that's the kind of thing you can just let go.

The city elf did mass murder but he/she got lucky.

You decide if he/she is unrepentant. And you have far less choice over the situation than Velanna who just attacks humans for being human.

No, she attacks humans because she has been tricked into thinking that they murdered everyone in her group and have her sister and won't give her back.

[Bigdoser]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

That does not change that fact that the city elf killed quite alot of people, heck some people may demand justice but other people may point out that you where captured.

You still miss the "unrepentant". If you're going for murdering people, every single warden is a mass murderer if the CE is that.

Oh sorry I did not read what you said properly  but thats what I was pointing out I simply don't like the fact that people make her a huge villan when your PC may have killed people on a mass scale eeh people have different prespectives. Also she did not kill them just because they where human.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 29 décembre 2010 - 11:18 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Velanna could have kidnapped human merchants or even disrupt trade, in order to free her sister, without resorting to killing.

That being said, she is more useful alive, and to fight against the darkspawn in this crisis is all the repentance I care about from her.

[IanPolaris]

Bigdoser wrote...

That does not change that fact that the city elf killed quite alot of people, heck some people may demand justice but other people may point out that you where captured.

Sure.  She (or he) killed them in an attempted rescue in self defense.  Big difference.  Those people certainly would have killed the CE.....eventually (squick).  The CE also has the opportunity to take all the blame for it as well...something we never see Velanna even consider.

-Polaris

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

You decide if he/she is unrepentant. And you have far less choice over the situation than Velanna who just attacks humans for being human.

No, she attacks humans because she has been tricked into thinking that they murdered everyone in her group and have her sister and won't give her back.

The post-game card if you leave her be that shows that she is attacking merchants on their way through, forcing them to take a different route tells me very differently. And this is *after* you show her that she was tricked.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 29 décembre 2010 - 11:19 .

[IanPolaris]

Sarah1281 wrote...
 No, she attacks humans because she has been tricked into thinking that they murdered everyone in her group and have her sister and won't give her back.

Ten minutes of any real investigation would have told Velanna she was wrong, but Velanna hates humans anyway (it was why she was exiled after all) and couldn't be bothered to check her facts and never admits that she should have.

EPIC FAIL

-Polaris

[Bigdoser]

IanPolaris wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

That does not change that fact that the city elf killed quite alot of people, heck some people may demand justice but other people may point out that you where captured.

Sure.  She (or he) killed them in an attempted rescue in self defense.  Big difference.  Those people certainly would have killed the CE.....eventually (squick).  The CE also has the opportunity to take all the blame for it as well...something we never see Velanna even consider.

-Polaris

Does not matter if its a rescue or self defense in other peoples eyes CE is a mass murderer as I said prespective. Anyway as KoP said she is good at killing darkspawn thats all I need. If a like a said character thats just a plus.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 29 décembre 2010 - 11:21 .

[Sarah1281]

IanPolaris wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
 No, she attacks humans because she has been tricked into thinking that they murdered everyone in her group and have her sister and won't give her back.

Ten minutes of any real investigation would have told Velanna she was wrong, but Velanna hates humans anyway (it was why she was exiled after all) and couldn't be bothered to check her facts and never admits that she should have.

EPIC FAIL

-Polaris

I haven't played the game in awhile so what is the 'ten minute'investigation' she could do? Talking to a human and hearing him say darkspawn did it once he was at her mercy (which she wouldn't believe) and finding her sister's trinket on a darkspawn corpse (the darkspawn appearing to avoid her)? 

[Herr Uhl]

Sarah1281 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
 No, she attacks humans because she has been tricked into thinking that they murdered everyone in her group and have her sister and won't give her back.

Ten minutes of any real investigation would have told Velanna she was wrong, but Velanna hates humans anyway (it was why she was exiled after all) and couldn't be bothered to check her facts and never admits that she should have.

EPIC FAIL

-Polaris

I haven't played the game in awhile so what is the 'ten minute'investigation' she could do? Talking to a human and hearing him say darkspawn did it once he was at her mercy (which she wouldn't believe) and finding her sister's trinket on a darkspawn corpse (the darkspawn appearing to avoid her)? 

The mass-grave of humans might have been a hint. Unless she made that one herself.

[Ryzaki]

CE killed people who had taken her hostage. She *saw* them take her hostage. She had them attack her and defended herself.



That's a far cry from what Velanna did.

[IanPolaris]

Sarah1281 wrote...

 I haven't played the game in awhile so what is the 'ten minute'investigation' she could do? Talking to a human and hearing him say darkspawn did it once he was at her mercy (which she wouldn't believe) and finding her sister's trinket on a darkspawn corpse (the darkspawn appearing to avoid her)? 

 
Oghren took all of ten seconds to look at Velanna's own camp to know that Velanna's pet theory had more holes than swiss cheese.  Then there is the pit of human bodies stripped of weapons and armor (the same as found in her camp), and then the wounded soldier.  All within an easy 10 min walk. 

The Architect himself in his journal is amazed that Velanna can't see through such a simple ruse (and is quick to take advantage).

-Polaris

[Dean_the_Young]

Velanna is a smart girl who doesn't question herself enough to challenge her own beliefs.



Now while that might seem contradictory, wisdom in large part being tied to self-reflection and self-analysis, it is pretty consistent with young people, and I think it's fair to say that Velanna is not mature as an individual. She's like many smart children/teens/college kids: she's intelligent, she knows she's intelligent, and because she's intelligent she's usually right and so doesn't really question herself, not least because she isn't often wrong. She's old enough to know the world and have an opinion, but not experienced enough to have let it age.



What captures my interest in her as a character, though, is her willingness to question her life-long assumptions and beliefs. You can do it to her on the topic of what the Dalish would do with power, Nathaniel will do it by asking her if she thinks the old elves truly were Immortal, others can do it by poking her on uncomfortable topics. Velenna has her view on the world, but she's honest enough to change it if it can be disproven. Which, if you are quicker with your wits and words than she, you can.



Someone once brought up the comparison to Loghain: I'll bring another difference, that while Loghain is the same in character and beliefs throughout the game, that all that changes is his knowledge and not his underlying character, Velanna does change. Velanna quite possibly changes more as a character than anyone else in Awakening. She is, at least, a dynamic character.



As a person? Some people don't like her type. In an ideal world? Wouldn't give her the time of day. As a character in a imperfect, ugly world? She's interesting, and even without openly admitting she was wrong she can change her ways.

[KnightofPhoenix]

"We believe what we want to believe". Velanna saw human weapons and rather than stop and think for a moment, she decided to be an idiot and blame it on the humans that she always wanted to hate.

Had there not been a crisis in Awakening, I would have judged her, mostly for idiocy. But despite it all, I somewhat like Velanna (like for reasons Dean just posted) and her eccentricity is sometimes cute.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 29 décembre 2010 - 11:36 .

[Dean_the_Young]

She's also hot.

[IanPolaris]

Dean,



All of that is well and good, but the fact remains that Velanna is a mass murderer who is fundamentally unrepentant about it (and continues to act this way even after you showed she was in error if you let her go)....and she wants to be a Grey Warden for basically all the wrong reasons.



IRL if a person like that were up on a capital murder charge and I were on a jury, I'd have zero problems voting for capital punishment regardless of the other details you mention.



-Polaris