128 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

She's also hot.

This and that she is voiced by Grey Delislie is probably where a large amount of her fans come from.

She doesn't give me any feelings but dislike. Not hate, just dislike.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

She's also hot.

I can tell she's a fiery one.

Hmmm, do I even want to know what kind of sex she would do with a human?
Brrrr

[Dean_the_Young]

IanPolaris wrote...

Dean,

All of that is well and good, but the fact remains that Velanna is a mass murderer who is fundamentally unrepentant about it (and continues to act this way even after you showed she was in error if you let her go)....and she wants to be a Grey Warden for basically all the wrong reasons.

IRL if a person like that were up on a capital murder charge and I were on a jury, I'd have zero problems voting for capital punishment regardless of the other details you mention.

-Polaris

Yes Polaris. Right Polaris. You're absolutely correct Polaris.

[Bigdoser]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

She's also hot.

I can tell she's a fiery one.

Hmmm, do I even want to know what kind of sex she would do with a human?
Brrrr

I wonder that as well I was dissapointed that you can't romance her, oh well.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Bigdoser wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

She's also hot.

I can tell she's a fiery one.

Hmmm, do I even want to know what kind of sex she would do with a human?
Brrrr

I wonder that as well I was dissapointed that you can't romance her, oh well.

I am not sure you would feel that way if Velanna's tastes are what I think they are.

...unless you are into this sort of thing, of course

[Dean_the_Young]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

She's also hot.

This and that she is voiced by Grey Delislie is probably where a large amount of her fans come from.

She doesn't give me any feelings but dislike. Not hate, just dislike.

Well, I can't deny that if she were ugly I'd be less amused by her, but as a rule I tend not to like fanservice characters (coughMorrigancough). If she were pretty without the personality, or the personality without the pretty, I'd be disusted, but as it is I think that her looks actually add to her character, in the same way Morrigan is in part defined by her beauty (and narcisism).

Grey Delislie is definitely a good voice actor, though I wouldn't recognize her on sight or sound.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

She's also hot.

I can tell she's a fiery one.

Hmmm, do I even want to know what kind of sex she would do with a human?
Brrrr

Painful, angry, hate sex.

Definitely hate sex.

Which, with the King-Consort of Ferelden, offers so many roleplay opportunities.

(Well, not really, but in my personal canon, while he never cheated on Anora there was definitely some tension between the two.)

(And no Brrr: Morrigan was the one who'd likely freeze your balls off. Velanna's element is nature and thorns, remember. )

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 29 décembre 2010 - 11:49 .

[Herr Uhl]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Grey Delislie is definitely a good voice actor, though I wouldn't recognize her on sight or sound.

I remember that when it was announced, fanboys flooded the threads. Vicona, revived.

[IanPolaris]

Actually I got the idea that at the very end, Nathaniel and Velanna started to have a thing going.



-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Herr Uhl wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Grey Delislie is definitely a good voice actor, though I wouldn't recognize her on sight or sound.

I remember that when it was announced, fanboys flooded the threads. Vicona, revived.

Great Voice actress wasted IMHO.  If only Velanna were half the character (in terms of interest and complexity...and potential sympathy) that Viconia was.

-Polaris

[KnightofPhoenix]

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually I got the idea that at the very end, Nathaniel and Velanna started to have a thing going.

-Polaris

Velanna: "So Nathaniel, tell me about your father. How did he become the Arl of Denerim?"

Nathaniel: "Errr...."

Relationship ended.

[Dean_the_Young]

I've seen it done, but never convincingly.



Nathaniel I see too much as a 'Yes, you're pretty, I won't deny it, but so what? It doesn't mean I want to sleep with you. I'm too much of a badass gentleman.'



While Velanna might be socially misfit enough not to know how to deal with it, but would eventually, well, not.

[Dean_the_Young]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually I got the idea that at the very end, Nathaniel and Velanna started to have a thing going.

-Polaris

Velanna: "So Nathaniel, tell me about your father. How did he become the Arl of Denerim?"

Nathaniel: "Errr...."

Relationship ended.

Better than my King Couseland.

Who allied with werewolves.

(Though, actually, I think Velanna might sort of approve/accept the 'getting revenge for past crimes' angle.)

[IanPolaris]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Actually I got the idea that at the very end, Nathaniel and Velanna started to have a thing going.

-Polaris

Velanna: "So Nathaniel, tell me about your father. How did he become the Arl of Denerim?"

Nathaniel: "Errr...."

Relationship ended.

I'm not so sure.  When I played DAA with those two, it seemed to me that Nate was about the only human that Velannja started to view as a person and not as "that dirty Shem".  That being so and given her own exile, I still think it's very much an open question.

Not saying you're wrong, but I'm sure sure it's that clear cut.  [And many human hating Dalish also despise and disrespect flat-ears as well.]

-Polaris

[Phoenix_Loftian]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Did you take her with you when finishing the Wending Woods quest? Her 'I don't want to talk about it' whenever you bring her name up to the merchant who asked you to go there struck me more as discomfort than arrogance or not caring. She seemed really awkward since she was tricked into killing innocent people and was aware of it. And why should admitting she was wrong in the presence of the all-powerful Warden be a necessary step in redemption?

Yes, I did. It proved that she was unrepentant. She ignores and avoids apologizing for killing victims who left their families behind thanks to her actions. She doesn't apologize, she doesn't do anything to show she's sorry, instead she just doesn't want to look bad for being put on the spot for her actions. The merchant even addresses her respectfully and she ignores the man.

Did I ever say that I didn't understand why people didn't like her? If nothing else, just the fact she bites your head off every time you talk to her is enough to not like her for. I never said that Velanna was RIGHT to do what she did so please stop putting words into my mouth. If every single caravan had an innocent child in it then my reaction would still be the same: Velanna didn't kill everyone because she hated humans necessarily. She did it because she freaked out when she believed her sister was missing. She did not handle her sister missing well, obviously, and she shouldn't have killed those people. I feel she does regret that she killed them once she found out that they were innocent (despite her hatred of humans) and you clearly feel she was supposed to wax poetic on how much she regretted killing them or it doesn't count.

She resorts to murder and doesn't investigate the area further because of her own racist ideologies. Nor does she simply capture the people and start questioning them for information on her sister that could be useful going by her line of thinking.

All she does is kill.

And as for the argument about the City Elf? 

Three things people are quite clearly ignoring:

1.) You're fighting either to save the women or yourself and the other women because hostages were taken/you're a hostage.

2.) Vaughn is KNOWN to kill the hostages he takes. It's explicitly stated that he raped and drowned a young girl who was working in his castle.

3.) Shianni gets raped by Vaughn before you get the option to save her or not. Shianni implies it in a conversation after you save her and it's one of the responses you can tell Cailan at Ostagar when he asks about the Alienage (if you save them).

Let's keep these two events of the City Elf Origin and Velanna's killing spree in perspective, shall we?

[Sabariel]

I didn't particularly like Velanna either. However since I recruited Zevran (and Leliana) I felt that killing her would be a little hypocritical for my Warden.

[CalJones]

I didn't like the flirting between Nathaniel and Velanna (there was definitely a Beatrice and Benedict thing going on there) - at least on my female warden. She wanted Nathaniel for herself. Grrr.

[IanPolaris]

Sabariel wrote...

I didn't particularly like Velanna either. However since I recruited Zevran (and Leliana) I felt that killing her would be a little hypocritical for my Warden.

How so if you don't mind my asking?  [After all I don't know precisely how you RPed your warden.]  In the conventional Warden Background cases I'm familiar with, the Warden does nothing like Velanna does and certainly at least has the opportunity to own for what he (or she) does.

-Polaris

[Sabariel]

IanPolaris wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

I didn't particularly like Velanna either. However since I recruited Zevran (and Leliana) I felt that killing her would be a little hypocritical for my Warden.

How so if you don't mind my asking?  [After all I don't know precisely how you RPed your warden.]  In the conventional Warden Background cases I'm familiar with, the Warden does nothing like Velanna does and certainly at least has the opportunity to own for what he (or she) does.

-Polaris

Zevran and Leliana killed just as many, if not more, people for money. People that they didn't know were innocent or not, mostly because they didn't want to know or care to know. I didn't kill Zevran for that or leave Leliana in Lothering for it so why kill Velanna? Seems silly to me.

[IanPolaris]

Sabariel wrote...

Zevran and Leliana killed just as many, if not more, people for money. People that they didn't know were innocent or not, mostly because they didn't want to know or care to know. I didn't kill Zevran for that or leave Leliana in Lothering for it so why kill Velanna? Seems silly to me.

OK, thanks for the answer.  Here's my take on both of them.

As for Zevran, I usually kill him.  My usual thinking is he who tries to kill me should have his life insurance premiums paid up.  I do note that Zevan does show understanding and even regret for those that get caught in the blowback, but Zev has the opinion that there simply aren't very many true innocents.  Also as a professional assassin, Zev really does seem to view himself as a tool rather than a thinking entity when on the job.  Zev also prays regularly to the Maker for forgiveness....something that would never occure to Velanna (subbing Creatures for Maker of course).

As for Lelianna, her regret is a major part of her character story.


So you see the issue that I (and many others) have with Velanna is not simply that she's a mass murderer, but she's a mass murderer that is almost subbornly and even proudly unrepentant about killing innocents as long as they are "dirty shems" even when forced to admit that she was terribly mistaken.  As I said earler, if I were on her jury, I wouldn't hesistate to vote for capital punishment in such a case.

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 31 décembre 2010 - 12:55 .

[WytPony]

I effiin hate Velanna. Every time I try to talk nice to her, she would just reply with the most abrasive comment and ****** me off. Like, B**CH PLEASE. Just like that time when we talked about that frickin' tree in Amaranthine and we ended up in a conversation regarding her keeper making a staff out of the wood of the same tree. I told her that she could have been a good keeper and then she blasted me for it and then told me if I thought I knew better than her keeper did. I was like, "B**** WHAT??? I just gave you a compliment and then you start chastising me?? No wonder why the Tevinter Magisters enslaved your sorry assess..." Ironically, I played as a female City Elf rogue, but that was just something I would have said to her face.

Modifié par WytPony, 19 janvier 2011 - 01:56 .

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Wow, I don't see the Loghain/Velanna comparison at all. And since the Orlesian nationality is not a race, you can't say that Loghain's hating on Orlesians is racism.

We don't have elves in real life, so racism is hating another group of humans too. Hating the Orlesians for what they did would be the same as an American hating Britain for their role in our past.   Race (and nationality) aren't as clear cut in real life as they are in a fantasy game that has different "races" of dwarves, elves, and etc (which technically should be called species, although most fantasy literature sticks with the incorrect use of the word "race" instead of the more proper "sci-fi" word of "species")

[HolyAvenger]

I'm RP'ing a human-hating City Elf female Warden right now. Its fun. I liked Velanna too.

[Sabariel]

WytPony wrote...

I effiin hate Velanna. Every time I try to talk nice to her, she would just reply with the most abrasive comment and ****** me off. Like, B**CH PLEASE. Just like that time when we talked about that frickin' tree in Amaranthine and we ended up in a conversation regarding her keeper making a staff out of the wood of the same tree. I told her that she could have been a good keeper and then she blasted me for it and then told me if I thought I knew better than her keeper did. I was like, "B**** WHAT??? I just gave you a compliment and then you start chastising me?? No wonder why the Tevinter Magisters enslaved your sorry assess..." Ironically, I played as a female City Elf rogue, but that was just something I would have said to her face.

Why would you tell her she would have made a good Keeper? She got everyone who went with her killed or kidnapped. I'm not surprised she blasted you.

[Stoomkal]

Ugh... this argument again.



Velanna *does* show remorse, both in dialogue with her, and in conversations with other companions.



She *tries* to stick to her guns, but is consistently shown the error of her ways. Her epilogue may or may not be a complete justification of showing her mercy, but either way, she begins to change her views.



This is simply a prejudicial argument.



She is no different from the "unrepentent" mass murderer named Sten or Zevran.

[IanPolaris]

Stoomkal wrote...

Ugh... this argument again.

Velanna *does* show remorse, both in dialogue with her, and in conversations with other companions.

When?  She is given multiple opportunities to do just that no only with you but in conversations with Justice, Anders, and even Nate.  She never moves a milimeter off the position that slaughtering the humans was totally justified.

She *tries* to stick to her guns, but is consistently shown the error of her ways. Her epilogue may or may not be a complete justification of showing her mercy, but either way, she begins to change her views.

I've never seen it (or have many others).

This is simply a prejudicial argument.

She is no different from the "unrepentent" mass murderer named Sten or Zevran.

Wrong.  Sten openly admits his guilt and wishes to atone.  As for Zev, he is an assassin, not a mass murderer (yes there is a difference) and he does care.  He also has the attitude that there are very few true innocents.  If you think Velanna is anything like Zev, then with all due respect you haven't played through with both of them.  Night and day.  Zev even admits he sins and prays to the Maker every day for forgiveness.  It never even occures to Velanna that she might be wrong let alone pray for forgiveness.

-Polaris