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The Reapers really suck at their Job.


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#1
Bamboozalist

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I was rewatching the ME3 trailer and I noticed something, The Reapers really suck at their whole wipe out all life thing.

Vigil in ME1 states that it took the Reapers several centuries to wipe out the Protheans, we assume that might be because the Protheans were so advanced that they were able to put up a great resistance, but let's look at what we know from ME3's trailer at how the Reaper's are wiping out Earth and how screwed we really are.

The Big Ben sniper says 2 million dead in the first day and another 7 million by the end of the week, so that's 9 million in a week, counting the Earth's defense forces fighting back. So assuming that the Reapers can keep that up and people don't try and hide from them that means that with a population of 11,490,225,106 (I'm rounding it up to and even 11.5 bill for easy math) it will take the reapers 1278 weeks to wipe out Earth or 24.5 years.

Now I can't get exact figures for the rest of the galaxy's let's look at Tuchanka. Tuchanka's population is listed at 2.1 Billion, let's assume that is a "small/dying population" and is accurate since no other planet counts non sapient life as population and Tuchanka's main population is Krogan. Let's say there are 3.1 billion Krogan in the galaxy, counting the ones that leave for mercenary bands (which I recall Wrex saying many Krogan that leave the homeworld). So if that's a "small" population let's say that there are roughly ~100 billion people in the galaxy. So at a rate of 9 million per week that is 11,111.12 weeks or 213.7 years.

Now if Reapers are attacking multiple planets at a time (which they might not be seeing as they have a pretty one track mind), in the shot at the end of ME2 there are ~300 Reapers, There were 8 in the Trailer attacking London, let's assume the Reapers divided up say 20 per planet and let's assume with ~100,000,000,000 billion stars in the galaxy that only ~1/1,000,000th of those have inhabital planets somewhere in their system so with ~100,000 planets, which works out to 1,000,000 people a planet which is what most colony population is averaged at so let's knock it down to 50,000 populated worlds to account for really populated worlds. At 20 Reapers a planet that means they need 2,500 Reapers to cover every planet at the same time.

Now let's assume that the people decide to do what the Protheans did and hide so that the 9 million a week figure drops down to say half so at 4.5 million a weak we now have them taking a minimum of 50 years and a max of 427.4 assuming that it only halves.

Now as for the Reapers themselves, they're really stupid. Why? Well as many people say "them flying back is a plot hole" Now I'll argue till the end of time it's not, it's simply bad writing, because ME1 and ME2's ending make it pretty obvious that they can simply fly back but don't because they're entire plan revolves around using the Citadel.

In ME1 Vigil says that by denying them the use of the Citadel they only hope to pospone the Reaper invasion, not stop it meaning that the Protheans must have assumed that they would simply fly there, at the end of ME1 Shepard and the Anderson/Udina seem pretty set on fighting the Reapers back into dark space which implies fighting off an actual invasion. How do they know the Reapers are flying back? I always just assumed this was Shepard's magic information gathering at work, like Shepard knowing about Harbinger beyond it's name. Considering one of the things it says are "We are Harbinger" as well as "I am Harbinger" why doesn't Shepard say "Harbingers are coming" or simply "The Reapers"? Also since Shepard is on the freaking Normandy flying away from the collector base when Harbinger says "They will find another way" s/he has no way of hearing that, meaning when s/he says to the Illusive Man that "Harbinger is coming and he won't be alone" s/he has some information we don't since Shepard says "[They're] coming" not "I stopped them from opening the relay again so they're stuck in Dark Space and we're good for a while", then of course the ending simply shows them flying towards the galaxy. I would be open to saying they have a Plan B to get into the galaxy beyond flying there, but then why didn't they use it the second Plan A failed instead of giving the species 2 years to harvest their technology (Thanix is a reaper based weapon) and improve their own?

So what does that have to do with anything? Well as people will point out the Citadel is only 2 or 3 relay jumps away from the edge of the Galaxy so if they can just fly back at any time it's not exactly hard to get to the Citadel and do their whole control the Relay network/cut off all the species, meaning they wait in Dark Space to save themselves the time of flying to 3 at max relays. Which considering they have FTL faster than our FTL shouldn't take them that long. So why do they wait? Because the Reaper's are idiots. I mean yes they might close the Citadel and screw the Reapers but really look at the Council's reaction to previous threats, they said they were going on full alert in case Saren attacked the Citadel and their fleets were still nowhere near prepared when Sovereign showed up. So really the Reapers are just stupid. Oh and one more for the idiot ball Reapers like to carry around; why the hell would Sovereign invest enough energy into an avatar, that destroying it took down its sheilds when it could have simply taken out all the Ships shooting it and then possessed the avatar? Or why didn't he just beam the back part the chamber and suck them out into space with out destroying the controls?

So in summation the Reapers are idiots who pretty much suck at doing their job.

P.S. I no longer feel sorry for the Krogan, how the hell is 2.1 billion a dying civilization?

P.P.S. Does that mean that there were like a trillion Krogan fighting off the Rachni?

Edit: I wasn't saying that the Reapers suck at eliminating all life in the Galaxy since they've been doing it for 50,000,000 years and are pretty good about it. I was saying that they suck at what they hype themselves up to be, super death machines that are better than all of us, when they're closer to really slow vacuum cleaners with a one track mind who can't think outside of the box.

Modifié par Bamboozalist, 29 décembre 2010 - 07:24 .


#2
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I agree on most all points 2.1 billion, comparitively is a dying population, from what i understand, they used to breed like rabbits

#3
The Smoking Man

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The 9 million dead figure was the amount of casualties in London alone. And if they're trying to build Arnold 2.0, they're probably not trying to kill all the humans. Or they're trying to take their time and get the whole galactic extinction event down right, rather than do a rush job. They've been alive for at least some tens of millions of years, it's not like they're in any shortage of time.

Either that, or the Reapers do suck.

#4
StarGateGod

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i suspect that the reapers will take their time with earth because they want to harvest us, but with other planets and other species they will just use orbital bombardment like they have on many other planets

#5
Zulu_DFA

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Or Vigil was simply BSing you.



Like the Rachni queen. Like Elnora. Like Anderson. Like TIM. Like the Shadow Broker. Like Morinth. Like Donovan Hock. Like Admiral Hackett. Like Lizbeth Baynham. Like Tela Vasir. Like pretty much everyone who wants to BS you.

#6
Bamboozalist

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The Smoking Man wrote...

The 9 million dead figure was the amount of casualties in London alone. And if they're trying to build Arnold 2.0, they're probably not trying to kill all the humans. Or they're trying to take their time and get the whole galactic extinction event down right, rather than do a rush job. They've been alive for at least some tens of millions of years, it's not like they're in any shortage of time.
Either that, or the Reapers do suck.


He says "All our defenses" not just London, so I assume thats 9 world wide. Also today only 7.5 million people live in London right now and there isn't exactly tons of room for population growth there. Consider that Illium only has a total population of 84 million with as dense population wise as that planet is.

@StarGateGod why wouldn't they harvest the other species? They were planning on harvesting everything before, there is no reason they wouldn't now. They'll probably just do humanity first since humanity is the biggest problem. The Reapers can only produce via harvesting so it makes no sense to not harvest everything.

#7
Commander Kurt

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So what you're saying (in so many words) is that they suck because they are slow and don't really need the citadel? Thing is they're not in any hurry and they do need the citadel. Apparently the citadel holds information which makes their job alot easier (someone will come by shortly and explain this further), and they choose not to take the risk of looking at the councils' previous decisions and just assume that they can gain access by a frontal attack. Regarding the human reaper, well, I can't really see the point of that at all in regards to the reaper invasion. I don't know what they were trying to achieve with that so I can't really tell if it's stupid. I consider ME2 to be a sidenote in the story at this point.



Furthermore, one cannot take a statement such as "they killed x in y amount of time" and actually use it to draw conclusions. Reality doesn't work that way. I get your point, but still.

#8
Bamboozalist

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Or Vigil was simply BSing you.

Like the Rachni queen. Like Elnora. Like Anderson. Like TIM. Like the Shadow Broker. Like Morinth. Like Donovan Hock. Like Admiral Hackett. Like Lizbeth Baynham. Like Tela Vasir. Like pretty much everyone who wants to BS you.


Why would Vigil BS you? I understand why you think like the Rachni Queen would, I don't agree with it, but I fully understand it and would not be suprises in the least if you're right. But Vigil was a VI specifically designed to pass that on. Would the Protheans really be that big of dicks that they would program a VI just to screw with the person who found it?

#9
Zulu_DFA

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Bamboozalist wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Or Vigil was simply BSing you.

Like the Rachni queen. Like Elnora. Like Anderson. Like TIM. Like the Shadow Broker. Like Morinth. Like Donovan Hock. Like Admiral Hackett. Like Lizbeth Baynham. Like Tela Vasir. Like pretty much everyone who wants to BS you.


Why would Vigil BS you? I understand why you think like the Rachni Queen would, I don't agree with it, but I fully understand it and would not be suprises in the least if you're right. But Vigil was a VI specifically designed to pass that on. Would the Protheans really be that big of dicks that they would program a VI just to screw with the person who found it?


Why wouldn't they? I mean, seeing what happend to them.

#10
Bamboozalist

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Commander Kurt wrote...

So what you're saying (in so many words) is that they suck because they are slow and don't really need the citadel? Thing is they're not in any hurry and they do need the citadel. Apparently the citadel holds information which makes their job alot easier (someone will come by shortly and explain this further), and they choose not to take the risk of looking at the councils' previous decisions and just assume that they can gain access by a frontal attack. Regarding the human reaper, well, I can't really see the point of that at all in regards to the reaper invasion. I don't know what they were trying to achieve with that so I can't really tell if it's stupid. I consider ME2 to be a sidenote in the story at this point.

Furthermore, one cannot take a statement such as "they killed x in y amount of time" and actually use it to draw conclusions. Reality doesn't work that way. I get your point, but still.


The Citadel has the relay control and census information, but as I said the Citadel is only 3 at max relay jumps away from the edge of the galaxy depending on where they hit so it's not like it's going to take them long to get to it. I can take that figure and use it since that first week is going to be the highest casualties since that's when the bulk of our military forces will be fighting back and the majority of the population will in the open. We can use it as the "optimum scenario".

So I was simply saying for "Hyper Intelligent Super Death Machines" they suck at their job of being "Hyper Intelligent Super Death Machines". They're more like really slow vacuum cleaners with a one track mind.

#11
The Smoking Man

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Or Vigil was simply BSing you.

Like the Rachni queen. Like Elnora. Like Anderson. Like TIM. Like the Shadow Broker. Like Morinth. Like Donovan Hock. Like Admiral Hackett. Like Lizbeth Baynham. Like Tela Vasir. Like pretty much everyone who wants to BS you.

As tin foil'y as the "Vigil is trolling the galaxy" theory is, crucial parts of its explanation do constitute plot holes, so they might as well make a nifty plot twist to fill those in. But then, Vigil was just a VI, so it wouldn't be it lying to you so much as it'd be the Protheans that programmed it. Not sure why the Protheans would want to help the Reapers when their asses are still hurting from when Harbinger made them bend (over) to him. Unless... Vigil wasn't a Prothean VI, it's a Reaper. LOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLLO
But this thread isn't about Vigil. Besides, any good lie needs to ring with a little truth, so you can't totally discredit Vigil's entire explanation.

#12
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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Bamboozalist wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Or Vigil was simply BSing you.

Like the Rachni queen. Like Elnora. Like Anderson. Like TIM. Like the Shadow Broker. Like Morinth. Like Donovan Hock. Like Admiral Hackett. Like Lizbeth Baynham. Like Tela Vasir. Like pretty much everyone who wants to BS you.


Why would Vigil BS you? I understand why you think like the Rachni Queen would, I don't agree with it, but I fully understand it and would not be suprises in the least if you're right. But Vigil was a VI specifically designed to pass that on. Would the Protheans really be that big of dicks that they would program a VI just to screw with the person who found it?


Why wouldn't they? I mean, seeing what happend to them.

why would they? what logical reason makes you think that the huddled up protheans on ilos would be like "heheheh lets really get the guys that come next!"

#13
shinobi602

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I know right, the Reapers should be able to just glass the whole planet and be done with it! Then we won't have to play ME3 because they're that powerful and thus...renders ME3's existence useless!

Modifié par shinobi602, 29 décembre 2010 - 07:25 .


#14
Zulu_DFA

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Bamboozalist wrote...

the Citadel is only 3 at max relay jumps away from the edge of the galaxy depending on where they hit so it's not like it's going to take them long to get to it.


Actually, according to the lore, the mass relays have shorter range, than it appears form the Galaxy Map. But that's not the point here. The point is that the Reapers seem to be able to "hit" the Milky Way without warning where ever they deem fit (which happens to be the Earth), so the question is:

Why don't they come out of the FTL at the Citadel's "door step" and take it first, if they needed it that badly (to shut down the mass relay network or what not)?

#15
Bamboozalist

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thurmanator692 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Bamboozalist wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Or Vigil was simply BSing you.

Like the Rachni queen. Like Elnora. Like Anderson. Like TIM. Like the Shadow Broker. Like Morinth. Like Donovan Hock. Like Admiral Hackett. Like Lizbeth Baynham. Like Tela Vasir. Like pretty much everyone who wants to BS you.


Why would Vigil BS you? I understand why you think like the Rachni Queen would, I don't agree with it, but I fully understand it and would not be suprises in the least if you're right. But Vigil was a VI specifically designed to pass that on. Would the Protheans really be that big of dicks that they would program a VI just to screw with the person who found it?


Why wouldn't they? I mean, seeing what happend to them.

why would they? what logical reason makes you think that the huddled up protheans on ilos would be like "heheheh lets really get the guys that come next!"


Maybe the Protheans were a gigantic race of trolls who were such big trolls that their last act was to ensure they trolled the race that came after them?

#16
Zulu_DFA

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thurmanator692 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Bamboozalist wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Or Vigil was simply BSing you.

Like the Rachni queen. Like Elnora. Like Anderson. Like TIM. Like the Shadow Broker. Like Morinth. Like Donovan Hock. Like Admiral Hackett. Like Lizbeth Baynham. Like Tela Vasir. Like pretty much everyone who wants to BS you.


Why would Vigil BS you? I understand why you think like the Rachni Queen would, I don't agree with it, but I fully understand it and would not be suprises in the least if you're right. But Vigil was a VI specifically designed to pass that on. Would the Protheans really be that big of dicks that they would program a VI just to screw with the person who found it?


Why wouldn't they? I mean, seeing what happend to them.

why would they? what logical reason makes you think that the huddled up protheans on ilos would be like "heheheh lets really get the guys that come next!"


All Vigil's tale was a lie. There were not "huddled up Protheans on Ilos". There were "indoctrinated/huskified Protheans just like anywhere else".

#17
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lol apparently

#18
The Smoking Man

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Why don't they come out of the FTL at the Citadel's "door step" and take it first, if they needed it that badly (to shut down the mass relay network or what not)?

Who's to say they didn't? There's only an absence of proof at this point that anywhere other than Earth was attacked, not proof of absence.

#19
Bamboozalist

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shinobi602 wrote...

I know right, the Reapers should be able to just glass the whole planet and be done with it! Then we won't have to play ME3 because they're that powerful and thus...renders ME3's existence useless!


Well for the vanguards of our destruction and the harbingers of perfection and all the hype behind them, it's kind of sad that they're really not all that great. I mean yeah they wipe out all life on the galaxy and I can understand the logic behind them never really planning for not using the Citadel since they're entire plan is based around it, but with all the smack Sovereign and Harbinger talk, you'd expect them to well be more of a gigantic fleet of terror and doom and less this slow one track group of gatherers.

From a gameplay stand-point it make sense which is why I say none of this is is a "plot hole" it's more fridge logic.

#20
Zulu_DFA

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The Smoking Man wrote...
Besides, any good lie needs to ring with a little truth, so you can't totally discredit Vigil's entire explanation.


Well, at least Vigil didn't say "Ah, yes, "Reapers"..."

#21
Bamboozalist

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The Smoking Man wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Why don't they come out of the FTL at the Citadel's "door step" and take it first, if they needed it that badly (to shut down the mass relay network or what not)?

Who's to say they didn't? There's only an absence of proof at this point that anywhere other than Earth was attacked, not proof of absence.


If the Reapers have control of the Citadel Relay Network ME3 is going to be a very short or LONG game since with our current FTL travel it would still take a long ass time to get anywhere relevant.

#22
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Zulu_DFA wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Bamboozalist wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Or Vigil was simply BSing you.

Like the Rachni queen. Like Elnora. Like Anderson. Like TIM. Like the Shadow Broker. Like Morinth. Like Donovan Hock. Like Admiral Hackett. Like Lizbeth Baynham. Like Tela Vasir. Like pretty much everyone who wants to BS you.


Why would Vigil BS you? I understand why you think like the Rachni Queen would, I don't agree with it, but I fully understand it and would not be suprises in the least if you're right. But Vigil was a VI specifically designed to pass that on. Would the Protheans really be that big of dicks that they would program a VI just to screw with the person who found it?


Why wouldn't they? I mean, seeing what happend to them.

why would they? what logical reason makes you think that the huddled up protheans on ilos would be like "heheheh lets really get the guys that come next!"


All Vigil's tale was a lie. There were not "huddled up Protheans on Ilos". There were "indoctrinated/huskified Protheans just like anywhere else".

This would be an awsome twist.
But then why would vigil instruct shepard to make the Reapers coming a lot harder?

#23
The Smoking Man

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Bamboozalist wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

I know right, the Reapers should be able to just glass the whole planet and be done with it! Then we won't have to play ME3 because they're that powerful and thus...renders ME3's existence useless!


Well for the vanguards of our destruction and the harbingers of perfection and all the hype behind them, it's kind of sad that they're really not all that great. I mean yeah they wipe out all life on the galaxy and I can understand the logic behind them never really planning for not using the Citadel since they're entire plan is based around it, but with all the smack Sovereign and Harbinger talk, you'd expect them to well be more of a gigantic fleet of terror and doom and less this slow one track group of gatherers.

From a gameplay stand-point it make sense which is why I say none of this is is a "plot hole" it's more fridge logic.

But the reaping is the Reaper's favorite part of their lives! Sure, they could do it really, really fast, but that'd just mean that it wouldn't be as long before they have to go back to doing nothing but playing solitaire for the next 50,000 years.

Bamboozalist wrote...

If the Reapers have
control of the Citadel Relay Network ME3 is going to be a very short or
LONG game since with our current FTL travel it would still take a long
ass time to get anywhere relevant.

Likely the Reapers wouldn't shut down the relays, they'd just lock them so that they only respond to Reaper IFF signals. And if that's the case, Shepard did just happen to get a hold of one of those things...

Modifié par The Smoking Man, 29 décembre 2010 - 07:33 .


#24
Zulu_DFA

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The Smoking Man wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Why don't they come out of the FTL at the Citadel's "door step" and take it first, if they needed it that badly (to shut down the mass relay network or what not)?

Who's to say they didn't? There's only an absence of proof at this point that anywhere other than Earth was attacked, not proof of absence.


It's a good guess, that ME3 will involve Shepard travelling to the Citadel, interacting with the Council, Udina, Anderson, Bailey (the latter two have families on Earth -- oh, yes, "emotional engagement"...), etc. when "the Earth is burning" already.

#25
Bamboozalist

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The Smoking Man wrote...

Bamboozalist wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

I know right, the Reapers should be able to just glass the whole planet and be done with it! Then we won't have to play ME3 because they're that powerful and thus...renders ME3's existence useless!


Well for the vanguards of our destruction and the harbingers of perfection and all the hype behind them, it's kind of sad that they're really not all that great. I mean yeah they wipe out all life on the galaxy and I can understand the logic behind them never really planning for not using the Citadel since they're entire plan is based around it, but with all the smack Sovereign and Harbinger talk, you'd expect them to well be more of a gigantic fleet of terror and doom and less this slow one track group of gatherers.

From a gameplay stand-point it make sense which is why I say none of this is is a "plot hole" it's more fridge logic.

But the reaping is the Reaper's favorite part of their lives! Sure, they could do it really, really fast, but that'd just mean that it wouldn't be as long before they have to go back to doing nothing but playing solitaire for the next 50,000 years.


They go to start -> shutdown -> hibernate. Only their vanguard has to play solitaire for 50,000 years. But yeah I guess, but then why wouldn't they have a plan B for getting back into the galaxy to start their slow process of Reaping instead of having to slowly play solitaire AND fly back (that can't be easy even for a Reaper :P)?

Modifié par Bamboozalist, 29 décembre 2010 - 07:36 .