927 réponses à ce sujet

[darth_lopez]

Bamboozalist wrote...

Alienmorph wrote...

Bamboozalist wrote...

You and Darth seem to be misinterpetting what I was saying. It was directed towards why I don't think Tali would be an admiral, not why she shouldn't come back.

No, I didn't. I was precising that still she has strong motivations to return without become Admiral. 

But...I agree with that, that was my entire point, was that she has no real desire to leave for Admiralty.

i'm not sayign she has to be an admiral i'm just saying there is a high porbability of it.

[darth_lopez]

Bamboozalist wrote...


Edit @: Darth but after ME2 Tali and Shepard both have enough pull to influence the public into swaying an admiral like say Han'Gerrel to at the very least temporary truce without the need for Tali to be on the Admiralty.

i did forget about Han'Gerrel's love of shepard, but i'm not so sure he'd understand the difference between Reapers and Geth.

edit:srry for double post

Modifié par darth_lopez, 30 décembre 2010 - 08:33 .

[Phaedon]

Keep in mind that huge machines are attacking everyone, wouldn't the blood satisfy any bloodthirsty Quarians? Or at least render them incapable of attacking?

[darth_lopez]

idk Xen deffinately pushes it to an extreme...although i could just be overthinking their rage at the species that kicked them off world >>

i also think if the quarians were attacked by heretic geth, it would be a lot harder for them to leave the war against the geth to fight soley the reapers.

Modifié par darth_lopez, 30 décembre 2010 - 08:59 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

At it again aren't you Zulu? Some things never change....



-Polite

[Bluko]

Phaedon wrote...
The misconception is the following: ME2 squaddies can't return in ME3 because too many variables would be involved. Sounds logical, doesn't it? Think about it. What kind of variables change if you kill them? Just one. (OK, not just one, I am just saying)
They won't be there as part of your ME3 squad.

There are too many variables. Niether Ashley, Kaidan, or Wrex returned as squadmates in ME2. Wanna guess why? Cause they could all be dead. Bioware isn't going to waste time making some squadmates that may or may not be in game for some people. It's not feasible. You can't have some players with more squadmates and others less. It could conceivably make the game unplayable for some depending on what characters you lost in the suicide mission. And then trying to make two characters for one slot is even more ridiculous and time consuming. I think it's pretty clear that your squad in ME3 is going to have to be all new. Maybe Liara and or Ashley/Kaidan might rejoin you, but with the Shadowbroker DLC kind of explaining away Liara's new role I don't see this happening either. It is much easier to create brand new character rather then try to account for all the various variables in previous games.

I'm sure characters will return for significant cameo roles during missions to please the fans, but I can't see anything more then that. Unless Bioware is planning on heavily changing the way you play in ME3, such as you don't have permanent squad, I can't see many squadmates being able to come back.

[Pyrate_d]

Bluko wrote...

There are too many variables. Niether Ashley, Kaidan, or Wrex returned as squadmates in ME2. Wanna guess why? Cause they could all be dead. Bioware isn't going to waste time making some squadmates that may or may not be in game for some people. It's not feasible. You can't have some players with more squadmates and others less. It could conceivably make the game unplayable for some depending on what characters you lost in the suicide mission. And then trying to make two characters for one slot is even more ridiculous and time consuming. I think it's pretty clear that your squad in ME3 is going to have to be all new. Maybe Liara and or Ashley/Kaidan might rejoin you, but with the Shadowbroker DLC kind of explaining away Liara's new role I don't see this happening either. It is much easier to create brand new character rather then try to account for all the various variables in previous games.

I'm sure characters will return for significant cameo roles during missions to please the fans, but I can't see anything more then that. Unless Bioware is planning on heavily changing the way you play in ME3, such as you don't have permanent squad, I can't see many squadmates being able to come back.

I don't buy this for a second. ME2 was advertised as being about building a squad. People don't want to create an all new group, and bioware knows it. From the very beginning, they are advertising ME3 as being about the reapers.

What they will probably do is make all survivors return as squadmates, but seriously reduce the number of lines ingame for each of them. This honestly makes sense, since shepard already has their loyalty. For the people with few/no survivors, they will add a handful of new/recruitable squadmates. Maybe even just 2, so the game is playable. They look at the the statistics here, and I guarantee that the vast majority of players either don't import saves at all, or have a decent number of survivors. 

This covers everything. Squadmates could still have ~4 conversations between missions without creating too much work, since there won't be the need to create unique loyalty missions with lots of dialogue for each character.

[Bamboozalist]

Bluko wrote...
You can't have some players with more squadmates and others less. It could conceivably make the game unplayable for some depending on what characters you lost in the suicide mission.

As long as you have two squad mates the game is playable and which two squadmates really doesn't matte considering that with the exception of Insanity for ME1 the squadmates are filler.

[ScotOfClanDonald]

I'd like to chime in that, yes, in fact, adding all the squaddies from ME2 is more than just clicking true/false variables. Each of those squaddies is a bunch of branching dialogue that needs to be written, voice acting, interjections, level-up ability lists, behind-the-scenes stats, character modelling, and animation. Anyone who says otherwise is minimizing the hard work that developers like Bioware does, for some reason. Why would you do that?



My personal wish is for each surviving squaddie to be added to a mission that you'd be doing anyway, making that mission easier and giving that character a moment to shine (what I call a "hero snapshot"), perhaps even a brief cutscene where they resolve some problem automatically, where you would have to handle it manually without that character around. Branching dialogue writing, voice acting, interjections, level-up ability lists, behind-the-scenes stats, character modelling, and animation are, overall, a lot easier for one mission than a whole game (some aspects easier than others). Then, if the character is still able in the endgame, allow them to be the point of contact with the various forces that will be at Shepard's command (as an example, if Tali is still alive and not alienated by the Migrant Fleet, she could head up a quarian force in a method that Shepard indicates, say to harness Dark Energy, and redeem herself for her disasterous missions in the previous games). If the character did not survive, a substitute NPC would give the same mission (but not go with you) and head up the endgame task force, but they would not have significant bonuses.



That would still be blisteringly complicated, but it's blistering complication that we can be sure that Bioware could handle, as opposed to programming each potentially dead squadmate both for full-game companion viability (with potential love interest status) and endgame service.



And yes, we will still need a group of new squad members to go with Shepard (though, on the missions where you get a surviving squaddie, you only have to choose one to go with you, just like the LotSB missions). They don't really have to be new, but they just wouldn't be returning squad members from other games. Say Admiral Hackett suffered massive political backlash from keeping faith in Shepard and got drummed out of the service. Turns out he's still a badass. Welcome to the team, Hackett!



They can still have new squad members and fulfill fanservice. Hell, judging from the reaction, Big Ben is nothing *but* fanservice.

[lovgreno]

ScotOfClanDonald wrote...

I'd like to chime in that, yes, in fact, adding all the squaddies from ME2 is more than just clicking true/false variables. Each of those squaddies is a bunch of branching dialogue that needs to be written, voice acting, interjections, level-up ability lists, behind-the-scenes stats, character modelling, and animation. Anyone who says otherwise is minimizing the hard work that developers like Bioware does, for some reason. Why would you do .

Yes that is true but the same goes for new squadmembers as well. Plus the extra work of coming up with a character popular with the fans. If you take a old proven to be popular squadmate you already have a winning concept, plus some marketing gold as a free bonus.

And by the way all characters in ME are fanservice in some way. That's how the entertainment industry works, like it or not. As long as it's done well, and in ME it usualy is according to fan support, I have no problem with that.

[samuraix87]

it takes more work to create new likable squadies than to just use the ones we have in ME2 people who have died squadmates shouldnt get any new ones same if all of your squad came out alive that should work

[Overtime22]

I believe and really hope that sqaud mates return in ME3. I hope that if squadmates died in ME2 then there will be an alternate member to join.
Like if
Thane dies then his son can be recuited or Feros could join
Tali dies then Kyle Reegar takes her place
Grunt dies Wrex/Weave can join
Jacob or Mirandia dies then Virmire Surviver joins
Legion dies then another Geth will join
Garrus dies I dont know its hard to replace him
Jack or Samara dies then Liara or Aria joins the team
It just seems like if you lost some people in the final mission there could be a good alternate to replace them very easily.
I do not believe Kasumi or Zaeed will be back or who could replace Mordin maybe that other salarian on Virmire leading the team, not sure if he died or not.
I bet we get at least 2 new squadmates never seen before. Overall their are a few options for replacment squadmates if you killed the majority of your team in ME2.

[samuraix87]

people who had squadmates die should not get replacements for the simple fact that your failure to do their loyalty mission for someone shouldnt be rewarded by giving a player in ME3 more squadmates it was your fault they died live with the outcome

[Omega-202]

We can assume that the Virmire survivor will be back as a squadmate because that romance arc needs to be wrapped up, so thats 1. Add 2-3 new characters and then "most" of the ME2 characters and you have a solid repertoire for everyone.

If you had all but the required 2 people die in ME2, you'd still have 5-6 squad mates. If everyone survived, you could have up to 15/16 minus ones that seem unlikely. Mordin's getting on in age, Thane is dying anyway, Zaeed was only hired for the mission as was Kasumi. So lets say 12 just like ME2. Have Liara and Wrex appear as set-piece squaddies/allies like LotSB.

Modifié par Omega-202, 31 décembre 2010 - 04:00 .

[KreeCapt]

I think a large number will return, but even if all survived the Suicide Mission, some just aren't going to be there. Thane admitted he had less than a year to live and ME3 takes place several years later so that's one down already regardless. If you didn't romance Jack, does she look like she'd be the type to stick around?



Zaeed was a hired gun and the Reapers might be a bit too much for a Master Thief (Kasumi).





What I'm saying is I wouldn't be surprised if some squaddies aren't there from the start.

[GodWood]

KreeCapt wrote...
I think a large number will return, but even if all survived the Suicide Mission, some just aren't going to be there. Thane admitted he had less than a year to live and ME3 takes place several years later so that's one down already regardless.

We do not know how long it is between ME2 and ME3.
And besides, Bioware would not design a character primarily for the female fans, give him an epic tragic story, than have him die off screen between games.

That's just poor story telling and incredibly unlikely.

Modifié par GodWood, 31 décembre 2010 - 04:29 .

[Kane-Corr]

I think it all comes down to this one fact: This is the final game....therefore, Bioware doesn't have to worry about cameos and what-not. THEREFORE....we'll get our crew back (well, some of them at least).

[KreeCapt]

GodWood wrote...

KreeCapt wrote...
I think a large number will return, but even if all survived the Suicide Mission, some just aren't going to be there. Thane admitted he had less than a year to live and ME3 takes place several years later so that's one down already regardless.

We do not know how long it is between ME2 and ME3.
And besides, Bioware would not design a character primarily for the female fans, give him an epic tragic story, than have him die off screen between games.

That's just poor story telling and incredibly unlikely.

Wasn't it stated to be 3 yrs after ME2? or am I remembering wrong?

[GodWood]

We have not been given any information saying how long it is between ME2 and ME3.

[KreeCapt]

GodWood wrote...

We have not been given any information saying how long it is between ME2 and ME3.

My Bad. I thought they said is was a few years after.
Still, wouldn't be surprised if he was dead. All of that Tragic Romance thing you know

[StowyMcStowstow]

Phaedon wrote...

 First of all, please don't get off-topic when posting here, this thread is not to argue about whether or not squaddies will return in ME3, but rather point out a misconception about this subject.

The misconception is the following: ME2 squaddies can't return in ME3 because too many variables would be involved. Sounds logical, doesn't it? Think about it. What kind of variables change if you kill them? Just one. (OK, not just one, I am just saying)
They won't be there as part of your ME3 squad. Think of this as an example:

You can have Grunt stay in his tank for the whole game and Legion deactivated, as well. The only thing that changes is that you don't get to use them as squaddies.

As for an entirely new squad, that doesn't make much sense either. It won't prove to be cheaper for Bioware in any way, and fans are going to be pissed.

This is wrong. How wrong? Quite wrong. Why? Because it's the same thing as if you never even picked up a squadmate in ME2. Just because they die in ME2 doesn't mean that it will jack the game up, so they former squadmates cannot return. This had been said before: Bioware doesn't do separate cutscenes for the characters (because that would be retarded in every possible way), but its more like a yes/no check if the squadmates are a) Alive and Usable. Seriously, I do not understand how people do not get this (and I'm not necessarily referring to the OP). It's common sense. If your squadmate dies in ME2, they they simply will not appear in ME3. It is literally that simple.

[savaged49]

I dont know if this has been said already, but since Thane was already dying in Mass Effect 2 its simple to account for him in dialogue either he died between the two games or at the collecter base, heck maybe his son will replace him on your squad.

[darth_lopez]

Bluko wrote...

Phaedon wrote...
The misconception is the following: ME2 squaddies can't return in ME3 because too many variables would be involved. Sounds logical, doesn't it? Think about it. What kind of variables change if you kill them? Just one. (OK, not just one, I am just saying)
They won't be there as part of your ME3 squad.

There are too many variables. Niether Ashley, Kaidan, or Wrex returned as squadmates in ME2. Wanna guess why? Cause they could all be dead. Bioware isn't going to waste time making some squadmates that may or may not be in game for some people.

Time to pick this apart real fast *cracks fingers* if all characters are dead you forget 1 vital thing at least 3(pretty sure that's the right number)  must survive for shepard to live, Files where shepard dies are non-importable, this has already been confirmed.

secondly we've gone over the amount of variables, i'm pretty sure it's a max 36. Kaiden, Ashley and Wrex are obviously stored seperately and the information can be ported in straight from ME 2 games you have already as their survival conditions were already marked in ME 1 and do not matter.

Li status was handled in LotSB from what i understand. so the LI variable from ME 2 is also covered.

It's not feasible. You can't have some players with more squadmates and others less. It could conceivably make the game unplayable for some depending on what characters you lost in the suicide mission. And then trying to make two characters for one slot is even more ridiculous and time consuming.

i've already shown that numerically it's feasible in previous posts and sorta relayed that in this one. Anyone with just the slightest programming experience should be able to tell there isn't alot to track here.  variable wise. As far as number of squadmates i just ran through ME 2 with out getting Samara :x next imma do it without samara, or thane or activating Grunt or legion :x i'm also not going to pick up Garrus or Wrex in ME 1 :x  i believe i will be playing with almost the minimum amount of charactesr for ME 2 and the bare minimum characters for ME

i have now played with less squad members than you *hypothetically for now* does that make the game unplayable? no. did it decrease my enjoyment? no.  was it harder? yes but that's what should happen when i lose party members, by choice or events.

Now you don't need to make extra characters to replace dead ones slots, just allow the player to pick up all the possible party members they would who are available the missing slots will fill in time as the player runs into the party members on missions related to stopping the reapers. if the party members end up as extra baggage like 6 characters from ME 2 then so be it you do not need to streamline party options and the term 'party slot' has no valididity in the programming stages. ME 3 did not come pre-packaged to BW with a limit of party memebrs they can put in

I think it's pretty clear that your squad in ME3 is going to have to be all new. Maybe Liara and or Ashley/Kaidan might rejoin you, but with the Shadowbroker DLC kind of explaining away Liara's new role I don't see this happening either. It is much easier to create brand new character rather then try to account for all the various variables in previous games.

I wasn't aware that the end part of a trilogy was actually the beginning of another sequel and shoudl be treated like a preperatory phase for another game my bad

on the topic of a brand new character bs(no offense it is) you mention
there aren't many variables dude, sorry. You may think 36 is a large number but it really isn't. that's just ME 2 if you want to talk about LIs from Numero uno that's at least another 5 so now it's 41 so there is no way that's happening if you really think it's infeasible to do 36. Infact i'm pretty sure importing a main character is about 12-30 extra variables to keep track of there :x guess we're gonna have to cut imports all together and go with a generic set story eh? 
....Oh lets not forget dialogue also has a ton of variables associated with it, time to get rid of those to make it easier to program, Combat needs to be dumbed down Mellee is now your only move you have no powers or abilities, by far the highest variable count of any game... Armor upgrades? gone... Inventory system Gone Leveling? Puhlease tooo many variables dude too many variables...Enemies that scale to level? GONE They are all level 1 pandas. Fancy graphics and textures gone. While we're at it we'll also fire joker kill the normandy SR 2 and make a new ship made of card board boxes...btw it's a box less coding less variables no need to make a 3D parabolicly/semi-cylinder/cone starship hull(trying to descrbie normandies hull) just a box....infact a 2D box is better  that's like just a square...we can just add a codex entry that says imagine a box shaped ship....

(sarcasm,should be apparent,  of course just showing how your talk of too many variables is terribly flawed. with an RPG an excess in code tends to come with the territory i'd think and lets not get started on the graphics.)

I'm sure characters will return for significant cameo roles during missions to please the fans, but I can't see anything more then that. Unless Bioware is planning on heavily changing the way you play in ME3, such as you don't have permanent squad, I can't see many squadmates being able to come back.

No...too many variables we don't know whether the characters are Dead or alive, Loyal or Disloyal, Too many variables dude...(max 36 variables that is[this is also sarcasm])

I guess BW is drastically planning on changing how trilogies work(if they don't import characters) apparently ME 3 is still in the middle of the shepard arc. [this is also sarcasm]

edit: i'm hoping my over use of sarcasm actually proved my point this time.

Modifié par darth_lopez, 31 décembre 2010 - 06:34 .