927 réponses à ce sujet

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Sorry OP, I have to disagree.



The key variable here is whether your ME2 squadmates survive. So if you keep all squad mates alive - and let's face it, it's not hard - then the possibilities are endless.



However, what if you get them all killed? Bioware aren't just going to say "oh well, tough luck, you have to do everything yourself now". This would mean that, if Bioware allowed the return of all ME2 squadmates, they would still have to create about 10 new squad mates anyway to replace every squaddie from ME2. It's just not feasible.



Now I could see a few ME2 squaddies returning and perhaps the VS/LI from ME1, plus Liara, returning. They still need more squaddies though.

[Alienmorph]

Phaedon wrote...

mineralica wrote...

Creating a pile of variables is like throwing yourself at sword - spectacular but a bit pointless if you don't know why are you doing this

But that's the whole point. There is no pile of variables!

Exaclty! And also, the point is BW until now always showed that knows what is doing. You don't save a certain character? Then he/she won't be in the team and you'll have a pair of different dialogues, maybe a little more if he/she was a LI, but that's all... you'll have to deal with his/her people and do the quest thinked to be centered on him/her anyway, 'cause the main plot won't change. 

Oh, and another thing... the fact that Shep dies if you don't save at least 2 squadmates isn't already a decent proof that you'll have to save enough people to have a mimimal team at your side in ME3? And don't think about the Dlcs... they can be all done before SM.

Modifié par Alienmorph, 29 décembre 2010 - 12:03 .

[Bamboozalist]

It's not endless it's 24 with something like 4000 overlapping variables which because of the way ME imports and handles data are completely irrelevant since everything is handled with a yes or no flag completely independent from one another. Also you have to have 2 squad mates to live, you have to take an active role in killing your squad, in a speed run where I specifically went as fast as possible with minimum effort I had 6 live, so anyone at 2 wants only 2, and they don't need 10 since most of your ME2 squad mates overlapped combat wise.

[Dominus]

My personal take on the likeliness? Yes, there will be new recruits, but as many have said earlier in this thread: Between appealing to the fanbase, making the choices made in ME2 more impactful and potent, and budget restraints as well, it means that a very good amount of squadmates will be from ME2.



How many is open to wild speculation, but I would assume Bioware would implement a system to correctly suit the previous events(unless in the case of starting without a save file) to the player.

[Phaedon]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Sorry OP, I have to disagree.

The key variable here is whether your ME2 squadmates survive. So if you keep all squad mates alive - and let's face it, it's not hard - then the possibilities are endless.

However, what if you get them all killed? Bioware aren't just going to say "oh well, tough luck, you have to do everything yourself now". This would mean that, if Bioware allowed the return of all ME2 squadmates, they would still have to create about 10 new squad mates anyway to replace every squaddie from ME2. It's just not feasible.

Now I could see a few ME2 squaddies returning and perhaps the VS/LI from ME1, plus Liara, returning. They still need more squaddies though.

Not really, all the files, animations, voice files etc. are still there, other than an e-mail or a 'You let Batm- umm...Garrus die!' reaction from a turian I don't see how the possibilities are endless.

[habitat 67]

There is no time to train a new team. Reapers come now!

[hong]

The squadmates in ME2 are essentially independent of each other. It's not like there's a huge web of interrelated story arcs, dialogues, feuds and affairs to track. So bringing them back in ME3 shouldn't be that hard, and certainly no harder than making new squadmates from scratch.

There will no doubt be new squaddies as well, to give the (very few) people who lose the majority of their ME2 squad some options. But most playthroughs would have seen most characters survive, and I don't see that being thrown away.

[Alienmorph]

Phaedon wrote...
Not really, all the files, animations, voice files etc. are still there, other than an e-mail or a 'You let Batm- umm...Garrus die!' reaction from a turian I don't see how the possibilities are endless.

The graphic engine is almost the same of ME2, the animations of the characters in action and in dialogues are here since ME1, some of them are recognisable even from the first ME1 trailer. Making a whole new team again would be harder to continue with the actual one, or at least not so much easier.

[habitat 67]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

However, what if you get them all killed? Bioware aren't just going to say "oh well, tough luck, you have to do everything yourself now". This would mean that, if Bioware allowed the return of all ME2 squadmates, they would still have to create about 10 new squad mates anyway to replace every squaddie from ME2. It's just not feasible.
.

Sorry but to be fair, you CANNOT get them ALL killed without you dying as well and it clearly states on the bottom of every tenth loading screen in ME2 that a dead shep will not be importable.

So... with two squads you can definitely potentially play through. It would be extemely boring though, and it should be for the sneaky little player that just wanted to be a contrarian. And if Bioware does that those very few contrarians are the only ones they will anger.

Modifié par habitat 67, 29 décembre 2010 - 12:16 .

[Barquiel]

Phaedon wrote...

mineralica wrote...

Creating a pile of variables is like throwing yourself at sword - spectacular but a bit pointless if you don't know why are you doing this

But that's the whole point. There is no pile of variables!

Joystic.com, interview with Casey Hudson

Q: There have to be a crazy number of permutations for how you can end your story in Mass Effect 2. How much of a nightmare is it for you guys to figure out how to address that for Mass Effect 3?


A: It's ... very hard.



It's obviously not as simple as you think.

[lovgreno]

Barquiel wrote...

Joystic.com, interview with Casey Hudson

Q: There have to be a crazy number of permutations for how you can end your story in Mass Effect 2. How much of a nightmare is it for you guys to figure out how to address that for Mass Effect 3?


A: It's ... very hard.



It's obviously not as simple as you think.

Perhaps, but they have a very strong economical incentive to think of something.

[Phaedon]

Barquiel wrote...
Joystic.com, interview with Casey Hudson

Q: There have to be a crazy number of permutations for how you can end your story in Mass Effect 2. How much of a nightmare is it for you guys to figure out how to address that for Mass Effect 3?


A: It's ... very hard.



It's obviously not as simple as you think.

I should clarify. There is no need for a pile of variable for each squaddie. ME3 will overall have a lot of variables, which are basically flags of yes or no. It's obviously not easy making a different cutscene/discussion for each possibility, but as I said, almost no variables change if your squaddie dies. As in ME2 or in ME1, if you enter a conversation with the right squaddie, that squaddie will make a comment. That's an example of a variable. If your squaddie dies, other than a few reactions perhaps or an e-mail, I don't see how the variable changes anything other than the absence of that specific squaddie.

[Computron2000]

hong wrote...
There will no doubt be new squaddies as well, to give the (very few) people who lose the majority of their ME2 squad some options. But most playthroughs would have seen most characters survive, and I don't see that being thrown away.

Not sure if new ones are needed. You have the Virimire survivor (Soldier/Semi Soldier), possibly Liara (Biotic) if Feron is written as standing in for her and 2 confirmed survivors.

In the case of Zaeed and Kasumi, they can simply be written in as "new" recruits on a non-DLC import or a new game. This gives you a minimum of 4 members. Sufficient choice i think, especially when you really have to work at it to survive with only 2. This sends the message that you WANT to fight alone. I would say "lets fufill your wish!"

The extra squad members would then become content you cannot access from a 2 survivor import but you CAN access it through a new game so the player could not complain of "I paid money for this and now you gimping me!"

Modifié par Computron2000, 29 décembre 2010 - 12:33 .

[hong]

Computron2000 wrote...

The extra squad members would then become content you cannot access from a 2 survivor import but you CAN access it through a new game so the player could not complain of "I paid money for this and now you gimping me!"

True, but you know that they will complain anyway....

[Computron2000]

hong wrote...

Computron2000 wrote...

The extra squad members would then become content you cannot access from a 2 survivor import but you CAN access it through a new game so the player could not complain of "I paid money for this and now you gimping me!"

True, but you know that they will complain anyway....

Yeah but those complainers will be shot down in any forum when people point out "Just start a new game. Who told you to screw yourself."

[TelexFerra]

The number of squadmate combinations is very difficult to figure out.



First you have to do (12 ncr 2) + (12 ncr 3)........(12 ncr 12)



Then you have to account for squadmate combinations that cannot exist,

[lovgreno]

There will always be complains, but I think most potential buyers who already have a ME2 save ready will have saved everyone, including Wrex, so for the least complains and most profit I think many returning squadmates is the way to go.

[habitat 67]

Computron2000 wrote...

The extra squad members would then become content you cannot access from a 2 survivor import but you CAN access it through a new game so the player could not complain of "I paid money for this and now you gimping me!"

If someone's serious playthrough was really the one where only 2 squaddies live then they deserve what they get for not listening to the 2 million warnings about getting ready before the...... suicide mission.

In Fallout: whatever you get punished by not being able to finish a quest, or sometimes even the game when you kill a quest giver or otherwise plot important person and it isn't given a second thought by fans. Why would Bioware have to hold themselves to a different set of standards than other developers?

[hong]

Yes! Unless squadmates return, we'll never see Tali and Legion make up and become the couple we know they're destined to be!

[Alienmorph]

51ha wrote...

I agree with OP. There are no variables. It's either dead or alive. It doesn't matter if someone got killed by the seeker swarms or you didn't recruit him/her.

Yes, don't recruit = dead, it's not a big variable. You don't recruit Tali? She dies on Haestrom. Thane? He'll probably do something uselessfully heroic that will kill him, or the Kepral's Syndrome will do the job. Samara? She finds Morinth and they reciprocate annhilate each other. Not hard to solve. Then you'll have a generic dialogue about their fate with some NpC, like Shala'Ran saying how much everyone miss Tali, or Captain Baley that says something about Kolyath and that's all. Sounds so harder than what was done in the previous games?

[lovgreno]

Bamboozalist wrote..
On topic why do some many people want Wrex and Liara in squad when they have actually stuff to do, like lead an Empire/be the Shadow Broker? I personally am hoping for highly interactable NPCs, meet with Wrex and Liara aboard the SB base and discuss strategy, stuff like that.

Simply because we enjoy their company I think. That's enough reason for me. I'm sure BW can make a good story about Wrex and Liara returning to Sheps side to finish what they started in ME1. And the very high fanpopularity these two aliens have is a very good economical incentive for BW to include them somehow.

[Bamboozalist]

TelexFerra wrote...

The number of squadmate combinations is very difficult to figure out.

First you have to do (12 ncr 2) + (12 ncr 3)........(12 ncr 12)

Then you have to account for squadmate combinations that cannot exist,

The problem is that the number of combinations does not equal the number of possible real outcomes (excluding worthless overlapping outcomes). You only have 24 real outcomes, Bioware only needs to make stuff for 12 of those outcomes, 24 if they really want to go overboard. All the squadmates data, their dialogue, their interactions with other squadmates is solely tied to them being alive. For example Tali being death would have no more impact on anything Tali would relate to than if both Tali and Thane were dead, any conversations between them don't happen the second one of them dies. So no there are not really that many combinations, there are the 12 alive flags which contain all the data and then 12 dead flags which only really count if Bioware makes more than one line of dialogue per character pertaining to a character's death, which they probably wouldn't since it's a waste of money.

[Barquiel]

51ha wrote...

I agree with OP. There are no variables. It's either dead or alive.

dead/alive is more than enough...this is why Mac Walters weeps at night

Q: The big question we had is, "How do you write a story where all the characters from the first game, or a lot of them, could be dead when you start out the second game?"

A: You mean other than pulling out my hair and weeping at night, sort of, "Oh my god, how am I going to do this?" It takes a lot of planning, obviously, but essentially what we did is we looked at it and said, "Yeah we know that some of these guys are going to be dead. How do we account for that?" And the big thing was -- let's take Wrex for example -- we had to limit to some degree the roles that those characters are going to play because we have to say, "OK well they're coming back or they're not."

http://www.joystiq.c...-mass-effect-2/

[hong]

But now they know how to plan a storyline that doesn't require specific characters to be present at key junctures. And they can apply that knowledge going forward.