927 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaedon]

Mesina2 wrote...

How am I keep missing your awesome threads?

Heheh, thanks Mesina. 

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Glorious thread necro is glorious.

But I think this topic is the biggest "well, durr!" thread ever.  IT is so obvious, in fact, that people need to read it again.

Yeah, the concept is quite simple. And unlike VS/Wrex it does not require extra content.

[KhaysunDei]

Yes, I have actually thought about this "too many variables" thing.  It's both a good and a bad thing that BioWare is allowing such a huge control over what happens to your characters.  I'm kind of worried that Bioware will spend too much time trying to get all these variables in place and not spend enough time in the story depth and character development in the upcoming game.

[Phaedon]

WarlordDavian wrote...

Yes, I have actually thought about this "too many variables" thing.  It's both a good and a bad thing that BioWare is allowing such a huge control over what happens to your characters.  I'm kind of worried that Bioware will spend too much time trying to get all these variables in place and not spend enough time in the story depth and character development in the upcoming game.

You should re-read the thread. Or at least the OP. There are not too 'many' variables. 

[CroGamer002]

Mesina2 wrote...


Zaeed - he done his job and he will try to get Vido and becouse of Reapers try to took over Blue Suns or if you killed Vido just try to take over Blue Suns or if he isn't loyal he would just leave.

Very low possibility to stay but cameo and side quest very possible


Kasumi - she went in hiding if has greybox or just say goodbye and leave if you destroy greybox( she is still loyal if you destroy it)

Very low possibility to stay if she has greybox but cameo or even important quest very possible. Greybox destroyed low possibility to stay and cameo


Samara - went to seek injustice but promises to help in future( Paragon) or just not to kill Shep( Renegade) and/or try to find Morinth if you scared her away in loyalty mission

Very low possibility to stay. Might possible to recruite later and LI if you try romance with her in ME2. Cameo and side quest very possible


Morinth - she just leaves with no goodbye

Extremely low possibility to stay and cameo


Thane - he decides to retire and went back on Hanar homeworld since he will die long before Reapers will come

Low possibility to stay but very possible cameo. For side quest low possibility


Possible to leave:

Tali - got message that she is elected for admiral and say to Shep it would be better if she leaves so he/she can have guarantee Quarian help against Reapers

Got nothing on if she is unloyal and survive( and exiled)
High possibility to stay if not cameo and important side quest are must go!


Grunt - say to Shep that he should get back on Tuchanka to help clan Urdnot

Got nothing if he is unloyal and survive
High possibility to stay if not cameo and important side quest are must go!


Character that wouldn't make sense to leave if didn't die:

Garrus( infiltrator) - no reason to leave loyal or unloyal
Legion( engineer) - no reason to leave loyal or unloyal
Jacob]( sentinel) - no reason to leave loyal or unloyal
Miranda( sentinel) - no reason to leave loyal or unloyal
Jack( adept) - no reason to leave loyal but unloyal questionable
Mordin( engineer and scientist, might not be selectable though) - no reason to leave loyal or unloyal



After that you gain two new squadmates in case that none of them didn't survive and later gain 4 more to have Soldier, Infiltrator, Vanguard, Adept, Sentinel and Engineer( for balance) or get them right away but with good explanation for plot.

[Phaedon]

I doubt that Tali wouldn't be in ME3, Mesina.

[Biotic_Warlock]

Phaedon wrote...

 First of all, please don't get off-topic when posting here, this thread is not to argue about whether or not squaddies will return in ME3, but rather point out a misconception about this subject.

The misconception is the following: ME2 squaddies can't return in ME3 because too many variables would be involved. Sounds logical, doesn't it? Think about it. What kind of variables change if you kill them? Just one. (OK, not just one, I am just saying)
They won't be there as part of your ME3 squad. Think of this as an example:

You can have Grunt stay in his tank for the whole game and Legion deactivated, as well. The only thing that changes is that you don't get to use them as squaddies.

As for an entirely new squad, that doesn't make much sense either. It won't prove to be cheaper for Bioware in any way, and fans are going to be pissed.

Fair point.
Would take a lot of work to include everyone.

[Phaedon]

^ Actually, no. Including everyone would take as much work as ME2, if you lose a character, you lose content.

[Hk47sPappy]

Sorry if it's already been mentioned, I don't want to go on an Archive Binge.

ME2 was about the team, so ME3 doesn't need to be. In ME1 the crew really didn't matter; they were all interchangeable. I assume that in ME3, all surviving squadmates will return. They just won't have any direct impact on the story. That means, as the OP said, a dead squadmate will just not be on the squad. The ME3 crew will work like the ME1 crew.

[CroGamer002]

Phaedon wrote...

I doubt that Tali wouldn't be in ME3, Mesina.

What's the point of having ABC if nobody knows purpose of it?<_<


I believe before Tali might leave but I change my opinion on it but Bioware might be cruel with that one so I don't remove it.

[ZeroDotZero]

Seeing as ME3 Production started before ME2 was finished, the VAs will have stayed on. There is no reason at all for there to be an all-new squad (like in ME2). It would ruin the second game's story completely, because that was all about creating the perfect team. There are only 12 variables involving team survival.

[AkiKishi]

ZeroDotZero wrote...

Seeing as ME3 Production started before ME2 was finished, the VAs will have stayed on. There is no reason at all for there to be an all-new squad (like in ME2). It would ruin the second game's story completely, because that was all about creating the perfect team. There are only 12 variables involving team survival.

It was about creating the perfect team for a suicide mission. But getting 100% survival rate is just so easy.

If ME3 is going to play out like I think , with you collecting allied races. Then one NPC from each Ally most obvious would be a Rachni if you saved them. A lot of the ME2 NPC's could represent their races, as long as they survived that is.

[ZeroDotZero]

BobSmith101 wrote...

ZeroDotZero wrote...

Seeing as ME3 Production started before ME2 was finished, the VAs will have stayed on. There is no reason at all for there to be an all-new squad (like in ME2). It would ruin the second game's story completely, because that was all about creating the perfect team. There are only 12 variables involving team survival.

It was about creating the perfect team for a suicide mission. But getting 100% survival rate is just so easy.

If ME3 is going to play out like I think , with you collecting allied races. Then one NPC from each Ally most obvious would be a Rachni if you saved them. A lot of the ME2 NPC's could represent their races, as long as they survived that is.

It wasn't really about the suicide mission at all, how I see it. It was just about creating the perfect team. All the survivors are there in the cargo hold at the end when Shephard looks at the reaper datapad. They all know what comes next. They won't all be leaving with the knowledge that the reapers will come to harvest the galaxy at any moment.

[Phaedon]

ZeroDotZero wrote...
It wasn't really about the suicide mission at all, how I see it. It was just about creating the perfect team. All the survivors are there in the cargo hold at the end when Shephard looks at the reaper datapad. They all know what comes next. They won't all be leaving with the knowledge that the reapers will come to harvest the galaxy at any moment. 

Exactly.In faaact, that fits the definition of the second act.







Oh and
Mass Effect 2 was the second act of the trilogy.




If someone didn't notice.





Just saying.

Modifié par Phaedon, 13 février 2011 - 10:15 .

[Wittand25]

ZeroDotZero wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

ZeroDotZero wrote...

Seeing as ME3 Production started before ME2 was finished, the VAs will have stayed on. There is no reason at all for there to be an all-new squad (like in ME2). It would ruin the second game's story completely, because that was all about creating the perfect team. There are only 12 variables involving team survival.

It was about creating the perfect team for a suicide mission. But getting 100% survival rate is just so easy.

If ME3 is going to play out like I think , with you collecting allied races. Then one NPC from each Ally most obvious would be a Rachni if you saved them. A lot of the ME2 NPC's could represent their races, as long as they survived that is.

It wasn't really about the suicide mission at all, how I see it. It was just about creating the perfect team. All the survivors are there in the cargo hold at the end when Shephard looks at the reaper datapad. They all know what comes next. They won't all be leaving with the knowledge that the reapers will come to harvest the galaxy at any moment.

Nearly every teammember tells you that they will leave or will likely leave after the suicide mission. Samara cannot stay without breaking her vows regardless what Sheppard did, Tali will go back to the Flotilla regardless what happened during her loyality mission, loyal Thane will want to spend his last days with his son and unloyal Thane has zero reason to stay Similar is true for practically all other team members of ME2. They will leave because staying with Sheppard is for many of them nothing but character destroying fan service.

[CroGamer002]

Wittand25 wrote...

Nearly every teammember tells you that they will leave or will likely leave after the suicide mission. Samara cannot stay without breaking her vows regardless what Sheppard did, Tali will go back to the Flotilla regardless what happened during her loyality mission, loyal Thane will want to spend his last days with his son and unloyal Thane has zero reason to stay Similar is true for practically all other team members of ME2. They will leave because staying with Sheppard is for many of them nothing but character destroying fan service.

Miranda - nothing
Jacob - nothing
Garrus - nothing
Mordin - nothing
Grunt - he may return on Tuchanke but he never said he would go back after Suicide Mission and what if he is unloyal?
Jack - nothing
Tali - she never said that. Also what if you didn't do loyalty mission or exiled?
Thane - I don't recall he saying anything about leaving. Also what if you fail his loyalty?
Samara - I agree, but if you are Paragon she promised help
Morinth - not sure
Legion - nothing

Zaeed - he's a merc. He will leave but he does know about Reapers...
Kasumi - she will disappear for her own good

[Wittand25]

Exactly.In faaact, that fits the definition of the second act.
Oh and
Mass Effect 2 was the second act of the trilogy.
If someone didn't notice.
Just saying.
[/quote]
A trilogy would not even require that the same character is used in all three instalments.
E.g. The films Trois couleurs: Bleu;Trois couleurs: Blanc and Trois couleurs: Rouge by Kieślowski are a trilogy yet they do all feature different main characters and plot-lines. A trilogy is just an work of art that consists of three parts, an ongoing narrative like in the Star wars classics is an option but not a requirement and the Mass Effect games fulfill the requirement for a trilogy by having  the same main character Shepard.

[jeweledleah]

Wittand25 wrote...


Nearly every teammember tells you that they will leave or will likely leave after the suicide mission. Samara cannot stay without breaking her vows regardless what Sheppard did, Tali will go back to the Flotilla regardless what happened during her loyality mission, loyal Thane will want to spend his last days with his son and unloyal Thane has zero reason to stay Similar is true for practically all other team members of ME2. They will leave because staying with Sheppard is for many of them nothing but character destroying fan service.

Samara's personal crusade is finished, however Shepard's lost casue - is not.  Tali vas Normandy ring a bell - Normandy is Tali's home now?  Thane can go either way, but concidering that he views Shepard's mission as his chance to balance the scales, there's a good chance of him staying on (he's doing it gratis, remember?).  same for Mordin.  Miranda and Jacob basicaly switched loyalties from Tim to Shepard, Dr. Chakwas, Garrus and Joker seem to follow Shep regardless, and in Garrus's case - this is his chance to do what he was trying to on Omega, just o na larger scale.  Shepard is Grunt's battlemaster, so Grunt will follow him for that reason alone.  Zaeed and Kasumi will probably leave, as they are pure merc's for hire.  Legion is liason for the Geth and seems to have personal attachment to Shepard.  Jack may or may not leave, but in general, Normandy is the first place she's seen as an equal not just some tool to be used and discarded.

I don't remember a single member of the team telling you that they are leaving after suicide mission, even DLC's don't mention it.

[Pwener2313]

BW bited on more then they can chew. It's only natural that they'll try some cheap escapegoat.

[Wittand25]

Mesina2 wrote...
Miranda - nothing
Jacob - nothing
Garrus - nothing
Mordin - nothing
Grunt - he may return on Tuchanke but he never said he would go back after Suicide Mission and what if he is unloyal?
Jack - nothing
Tali - she never said that. Also what if you didn't do loyalty mission or exiled?
Thane - I don't recall he saying anything about leaving. Also what if you fail his loyalty?
Samara - I agree, but if you are Paragon she promised help
Morinth - not sure
Legion - nothing

Zaeed - he's a merc. He will leave but he does know about Reapers...
Kasumi - she will disappear for her own good

Miranda- she is not the woman who takes orders and is better fitted to help Shepard by leading her own science team
Jacob- will stick with Miranda as bodyguard
Garrus- most likely to stay, but there are ways to write him out if the writers choose to do so
Mordin-  if alive better doing research in a fully equipped facility and not just the Normandy board lab
Grunt-either unloyal or member of clan Urdont, and loyalty to his clan is more important than to his battlemaster, so if clan Urdont calls he will leave.
Jack- unromanced she has little reason to stay, and even romanced she might leave and only return at the end
Tali-ask her about exile and she will tell you that an exiled Quarian can be called back to the Flotilla if needed, and since she is the expert on Geth they will call her back if they try to take back their homeworld
Thane- he clearly regrets his relationship with his son and wants to mend things between them as long as he has time.
Samara- she has her code to follow and flat out tells you that she will only follow your command until the suicide mission is over and might even have to try to kill Shepard after the suicide mission if he commits a crime while she is in the squad
Legion- hard to write out like Garrus but not impossible.

Modifié par Wittand25, 13 février 2011 - 11:01 .

[AkiKishi]

There are so many variables it's basically a mess. It's fine that X will stay with you if you did Y. But if you did not do Y then that leaves a gap. Also any one of the "perfect team" could be dead, or pretty much all of them and that would still be considered a valid outcome.



From the more OOC perspective, we already have background on the ME2 characters, not like you can just invent some new stuff to make up the talky bits. That was probably more important with the design of ME2. But would still be really boring to have nothing new to chat about in ME3.

[Quole]

Honestly, having a SM in the second act seemed incredibly stupid to me.

Modifié par Quole, 14 février 2011 - 12:41 .

[Stupidus]

In reality very few of the Squadmates are even 'the best of the best'.

Garrus for all we know is just a regular Turian armydude-turned-C-sec-turned 'oh hay I wanna follow you and stop Saren' providing no skills other than Turian army training.

Miranda is highly-qualified, so is Jacob but they're noting elite.

Thane is highly-skilled as an assasin and was sought-out as such.

Zaeed is highly-skilled and was sought-out.

Grunt is just an Okeer replacement, but he's probably the best Krogan alive.

Legion is a unique Geth platform and is highly qualified.

Samara is a Justicar. Whether that makes her stronger than Asari Commandos is undetermined but I'd assume so.

Jack is the strongest Human Biotic and is a mainstay for the team. Probably one of the best squadmates so stick around.

Kasumi? Skilled thief, but nothing valuable.

Tali is just another Quarian who has a lot of tech expertise but isn't a strong soldier like everyone else.

Mordin is weak; his whole purpose of being recruited was his science expertise against the Collectors but that's it, which is why it's so easy for him to die on the SM.

------

Point being, this isn't even a really good team. It's more like a bunch of misfits who each have something to contribute are coming along with you.

Modifié par Stupidus, 14 février 2011 - 12:58 .

[James2912]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

What i honestly see hapenning with ME3 is, your squadmates die, you lose content. I personally have absolutely no problem with this.

I agree!

[Pwener2313]

Stupidus wrote...

Point being, this isn't even a really good team. It's more like a bunch of misfits who each have something to contribute are coming along with you.

You forgot Shepard: Most dangerous bastard in space.

Modifié par Pwener2313, 14 février 2011 - 01:05 .

[jeweledleah]

Tali is one of the best techs on flotilla, possibly the best.
Mordin is a genius scientist, don't forget - he was the one who let re-development of genophage.
Samara IS an asari commando in a nutshell, she's just one the follows a very specific code.
Jack is strongest "human" biotic, whether she's strongest biotic period - that is still questionable.
Grunt is best Krogan genetically, but he lacks experience - he IS merely a replacement. has potential, but needs to be developed.
Miranda is one of the few people to have actually seen TIM face to face and from what we know, she used to be one of his best operatives.
Jacob is very good, but he was mostly added for sympathetic and stabilizing influence (plus Miranda could keep an eye on his "not trusting TIM" self - 2 birds with one stone)
Garrus was one of the potential spectres. he didn't wash out originally, he left because of the pressure from his father. he was also one of the best C-sec investigators before he left. lastly - he held off 3 combined merc forces on his lonesome. he's almost as good as shepard, possibly AS good as shepard.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 14 février 2011 - 01:06 .