It is. And it could go the other way around too, if you get too paragon and friendly with the aliens Miranda and Jacob leaves the party.darth_lopez wrote...
@Admiral Cheese( whom i Shall now begin to call AC if that is ok)
That suggestion for a garrus sublot is awesome. and totally possible.
A common misconception about squadmates in ME3
Débuté par
Phaedon
, déc. 29 2010 10:45
#601
Posté 15 février 2011 - 04:24
lovgreno
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Retour en haut
#602
Posté 15 février 2011 - 05:03
AdmiralCheez
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That would make me sadface, as Miri and Garrus are the interchangeable devil and angel on my shoulders. (Well, okay, maybe both of them are my shoulder-devils. Jacob can be the angel.) However, it'd make sense. I can see Ashley or Kaidan doing the same, since although they aren't part of Cerberus, they side strongly with humanity. They wouldn't stick around if they felt you weren't doing enough for the sake of good ol' Earth.lovgreno wrote...
It is. And it could go the other way around too, if you get too paragon and friendly with the aliens Miranda and Jacob leaves the party.darth_lopez wrote...
@Admiral Cheese( whom i Shall now begin to call AC if that is ok)
That suggestion for a garrus sublot is awesome. and totally possible.
And yeah, you can call me AC if you want. Or Dilbert. Or Queen Elizabeth.
Anyway, enough sidetracky, topic-derailing blah blah. There really are no good reasons I can think of to not bring back at least some of the ME2 squad.
Too complicated? Simple true-false import mechanism (flags).
Not enough disk space? An all-new squad would take up just as much.
Too expensive? It would take more effort to create entirely new characters.
They can die? CONSEQUENCES, MUTHAF*CKAS.
New players will feel lost? It's surprisingly easy to get new guys up to speed with in-game chit-chat.
Old characters will bring in nothing new? See Garrus rant.
Overcrowding? This is an issue of personal taste, really. I like playing with a full deck.
Meanwhile, the reasons in favor...
CONTINUITY.
FANBASE.
CONSEQUENCES.
DEVELOPER INTEGRITY.
FOR F*CK'S SAKE, IT'S THE LAST GAME IN THE TRILOGY.
As for camoes and part-time squaddies, they'd have to program 'em and bring in the voice actors, anyway, so why the hell not?
Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 15 février 2011 - 05:11 .
#603
Posté 15 février 2011 - 05:43
AkiKishi
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darth_lopez wrote...
You continue to miss the point that ME is a Game and needs balancing as a game. Starting out with Max Powers is not how you balance a game. And there were clearly abilities you gained that gave you an extreme advantage over the NPC ennemies. Would that work for game balance? They'd have to Up the difficulty immensley because idk about you but on hardcore i can blow through the game quickly and with minimal effort. I can't immagine it's substantially more difficult on insane. Casual Shepard becomes an unstoppable dreadnaught by level 8 if you know what your doing if not earlier. By level 14 in normal you are an unstoppable dreadnaught. veteran it's prolly around 18 or 20. so starting out at level 30 in ME 3 with your chosen maxed out super powers would be Unbalanced as bojangles.
From the consistency stand point this is a minor issue at worst easily rectified by the awarding of bonus points for Maxing out in ME 2.
And from the story telling aspect Your class and powers and implementation in ME of those powers is negligible go back and play the game.
@Admiral Cheese( whom i Shall now begin to call AC if that is ok)
That suggestion for a garrus sublot is awesome. and totally possible.
You won't have "max powers" I never suggested you would.
Balance is actually not the big deal people make it out to be. If for example I took Shepards powers from where they are now and added another 5 levels (10 points worth) that's very easy for me to do. I simply make them do more damage and upscale the badguys hps' etc. in the same way.
For example (these are just made up numbers) power X does 200 points at the end of ME2. I add another 4 levels of 20% increase, then cap that with another power split like even more range, like to 6 meters from 3 or add a stun effect to the "heavy" version. You just added another 30 levels to the game without needing to reset Shepard.
That's a piece of cake to do because bad guys already scale with your level anyway. Plus they have already done it in Dragon Age when they upped the cap.
Suddenly becoming level 5 is hardly a minor issue, or they would not have had to spin the ridiculour Lazarus thing around it as justification.
That's partially correct. However you need the powers in order to be able to advance the story. Without them if you can't beat level XX then the story will go no where.
Modifié par BobSmith101, 15 février 2011 - 05:44 .
#604
Posté 15 février 2011 - 05:50
AdmiralCheez
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@BobSmith: Just curious, but WHY does what happens to your level have to be incorporated into the story? Honestly, that whole Lazarus mess could have been avoided if the devs had chosen to separate gameplay from lore for just two seconds.
#605
Posté 15 février 2011 - 06:02
AkiKishi
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AdmiralCheez wrote...
Too complicated? Simple true-false import mechanism (flags).
Not enough disk space? An all-new squad would take up just as much.
Too expensive? It would take more effort to create entirely new characters.
They can die? CONSEQUENCES, MUTHAF*CKAS.
New players will feel lost? It's surprisingly easy to get new guys up to speed with in-game chit-chat.
Old characters will bring in nothing new? See Garrus rant.
Overcrowding? This is an issue of personal taste, really. I like playing with a full deck.
I think you compacted this nicely with your list so..
1.Your overstating the simplicity.It's not a case of just true false.
2.Yes and no... ME2 is initially driven by Miranda and Jacob , agree ? You can't drive the game through characters that may not be there.
3. Returning Voice Actors are more expensive. - Once an actor knows you want them for a specific job the fee goes up (unless you contract them for a series). If you just need "any old actor" they don't have negotiating power.
4. ME3 needs to appeal to people who never played ME1 or ME2 if you need to have played ME2 to play ME3 it's not a game, it's an expansion pack.
5. That would mean all of the character background on the disk for the characters from ME2, plus even more for ME3 to keep them interesting. That's more work thank just making 10 new characters.
6. If you can come up with an example for all 12 you might have more to back up your case.
Advantages of new characters.
1. 100% of the content available to 100% of the purchasers of ME3.
2. No need to worry about who may or may not be alive. It's no good giving Tali a quest for an anti reaper dohicky if she's dead.
3. If any voice actor will do, the cost is cheaper than employing a specfic one.
4. Squad can be tailored to the story in the same way ME2's is.
5. Less need to worry about resets, it's much easier to upscale one character than 12. New characters , new powers.
6. You know that any resource you use on a new character will not be wasted on the "dead".
7. ME3 looks more like a new game and less like an expansion pack.
AdmiralCheez wrote...
@BobSmith: Just curious, but WHY does what happens to your level have to be incorporated into the story? Honestly, that whole Lazarus mess could have been avoided if the devs had chosen to separate gameplay from lore for just two seconds.
Gameplay and lore should compliment each other.
For example. In BG II they wanted to get rid of all your overpowered BG stuff. As a result you end up in prison at the start of the game with no gear. That's a less heavy handed version of the Lazarus project. Had they simply modified your inventory without explanation that would have been stupid.
Modifié par BobSmith101, 15 février 2011 - 06:09 .
#606
Posté 15 février 2011 - 06:42
AdmiralCheez
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[quote]BobSmith101 wrote...
1.Your overstating the simplicity.It's not a case of just true false.[/quote]
See Gibbed save editor.
[quote]2.Yes and no... ME2 is initially driven by Miranda and Jacob , agree ? You can't drive the game through characters that may not be there. [/quote]
No, it wasn't. There just needed to be someone to wake Shep up and tell him/her how to get to the shuttle. Any and all "important" roles can be accomplished by NPCs. The fact
that some of them happen to be squaddies is just a bonus. For example,
Wrex could have been just some dude that tells you where to find Fist,
Liara could have just stayed on the ship and never fought, Tali could
have just given you the evidence and ran, and so on.
As for the fact that they may not be present? Then they could easily fill the role of advisor/commentator/support. The Spock to your Kirk, so to speak. Not necessary for the story, but they help you out and make things personal. Besides, the fact that an important ally may not be there when you need them? GASP! CONSEQUENCES!
[quote]3. Returning Voice Actors are more expensive. - Once an actor knows you want them for a specific job the fee goes up (unless you contract them for a series). If you just need "any old actor" they don't have negotiating power.[/quote]
They hired Martin Sheen. It's safe to say budget is a non-issue. Additionally, we don't know what kind of contracts these actors signed. They could have been sealed for the whole trilogy from day one.
[quote]4. ME3 needs to appeal to people who never played ME1 or ME2 if you need to have played ME2 to play ME3 it's not a game, it's an expansion pack. [/quote]
How would people like Garrus and Miranda not appeal to people who've never played the game before? That's like saying people won't like Han Solo if they never saw A New Hope. He's still pretty badass in Empire and RotJ.
Now, imagine how horrible Return of the King would have been without Legolas, Gimili, Samwise, Merry, and Pippin. Technically, RotK is a "stand-alone" movie/novel, not an "expansion pack," and each of the aforementioned characters could have been removed from the story with little or no consequence. HOWEVER, audiences new and old loved those guys. You don't just rip half the cast out for the final act.
[quote]5. That would mean all of the character background on the disk for the characters from ME2, plus even more for ME3 to keep them interesting. That's more work thank just making 10 new characters.[/quote]
I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Seriously, all it takes is two or three lines of dialogue to explain who a character is. That's a lot easier than creating a whole new character.
[quote]6. If you can come up with an example for all 12 you might have more to back up your case.[/quote]
Is that a dare? *waggles eyebrows*
MORDIN: Science officer. Provides upgrade bonuses and helps you study indoctrination/Reaper engineering. Would side with Garrus if you had to choose between humans and non-humans.
KASUMI: Becomes a liason between you and the Shadow Broker, dropping useful hints here and there. Not necessarily a squaddie.
MIRANDA, JACOB, AND THE VS: Pretty much the same as Garrus, only loyal to humanity.
LIARA: She's the Shadow Broker. Say hello to your new questgiver. Squadmate? Nah. Maybe for a mission or two.
GRUNT: His conversations were never horribly enlightening to begin with, but you're his battlemaster. He fights for you no matter what.
WREX: Busy rallying the krogans, but I have a feeling he'll be there for the final battle.
THANE: If he stays, decides to stick it out to the end. Keeps you tabbed on how things are going with his illness and his son. You might run into a conflict with him if you cause a massive slaughter instead of just killing one man.
SAMARA/MORINTH: Will probably take off, but if they stay, Samara's the only one you'll run into a problem with if you insist on sticking it to her Code.
TALI: She either loves you or hates you at this point, so how she behaves around you depends on your actions in ME2 (if you didn't recruit her, she's assumed dead). Will side with Garrus during the big conflict.
ZAEED: If he sticks around, expect more "and I was the only one who got out alive" stories. He never runs out.
LEGION: A diplomatic representative for the geth. He comes in handy if you wish to make peace between organics and synthetics.
JACK: You might see her begin to "heal" a little, gradually integrating into the crew and perhaps getting along with a few of them. Conflict would arise if you sell out to Cerberus.
I covered Garrus.
[quote]Advantages of new characters.[/quote]
Did I say we shouldn't have them?
[quote]1. 100% of the content available to 100% of the purchasers of ME3. [/quote]
Well, durr. You'll need 'em for the minimal imports and stuff.
[quote]2. No need to worry about who may or may not be alive. It's no good giving Tali a quest for an anti reaper dohicky if she's dead.[/quote]
Naturally. However, attaching certain kind-of-sort-of helpful content to surviving squadmates would emphasize the consequences of getting them killed. This is not unfair because it gives old players a bonus for spending so much money on BW, plus the death of a squaddie results from either bad decision making or intentional removal of content.
[quote]3. If any voice actor will do, the cost is cheaper than employing a specfic one. [/quote]
I covered this above.
[quote]4. Squad can be tailored to the story in the same way ME2's is.[/quote]
You know what'd be really tailored to the story? A team I can trust. The best of the best.
[quote]5. Less need to worry about resets, it's much easier to upscale one character than 12. New characters , new powers.[/quote]
You'll have to explain this one to me. And again, I think your opinion on the whole skill-level thing is bull anyway.
[quote]6. You know that any resource you use on a new character will not be wasted on the "dead". [/quote]
How is it "wasted" if a squadmate is more likely to be alive than dead? That's like saying "Oh, there's only a 90% chance it will rain, so I should throw out this umbrella."
[quote]7. ME3 looks more like a new game and less like an expansion pack.[/quote]
And yet, you want levels and skills to carry over as if it WERE an expansion pack.
SMELLS LIKE HYPOCRISY.
1.Your overstating the simplicity.It's not a case of just true false.[/quote]
See Gibbed save editor.
[quote]2.Yes and no... ME2 is initially driven by Miranda and Jacob , agree ? You can't drive the game through characters that may not be there. [/quote]
No, it wasn't. There just needed to be someone to wake Shep up and tell him/her how to get to the shuttle. Any and all "important" roles can be accomplished by NPCs. The fact
that some of them happen to be squaddies is just a bonus. For example,
Wrex could have been just some dude that tells you where to find Fist,
Liara could have just stayed on the ship and never fought, Tali could
have just given you the evidence and ran, and so on.
As for the fact that they may not be present? Then they could easily fill the role of advisor/commentator/support. The Spock to your Kirk, so to speak. Not necessary for the story, but they help you out and make things personal. Besides, the fact that an important ally may not be there when you need them? GASP! CONSEQUENCES!
[quote]3. Returning Voice Actors are more expensive. - Once an actor knows you want them for a specific job the fee goes up (unless you contract them for a series). If you just need "any old actor" they don't have negotiating power.[/quote]
They hired Martin Sheen. It's safe to say budget is a non-issue. Additionally, we don't know what kind of contracts these actors signed. They could have been sealed for the whole trilogy from day one.
[quote]4. ME3 needs to appeal to people who never played ME1 or ME2 if you need to have played ME2 to play ME3 it's not a game, it's an expansion pack. [/quote]
How would people like Garrus and Miranda not appeal to people who've never played the game before? That's like saying people won't like Han Solo if they never saw A New Hope. He's still pretty badass in Empire and RotJ.
Now, imagine how horrible Return of the King would have been without Legolas, Gimili, Samwise, Merry, and Pippin. Technically, RotK is a "stand-alone" movie/novel, not an "expansion pack," and each of the aforementioned characters could have been removed from the story with little or no consequence. HOWEVER, audiences new and old loved those guys. You don't just rip half the cast out for the final act.
[quote]5. That would mean all of the character background on the disk for the characters from ME2, plus even more for ME3 to keep them interesting. That's more work thank just making 10 new characters.[/quote]
I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Seriously, all it takes is two or three lines of dialogue to explain who a character is. That's a lot easier than creating a whole new character.
[quote]6. If you can come up with an example for all 12 you might have more to back up your case.[/quote]
Is that a dare? *waggles eyebrows*
MORDIN: Science officer. Provides upgrade bonuses and helps you study indoctrination/Reaper engineering. Would side with Garrus if you had to choose between humans and non-humans.
KASUMI: Becomes a liason between you and the Shadow Broker, dropping useful hints here and there. Not necessarily a squaddie.
MIRANDA, JACOB, AND THE VS: Pretty much the same as Garrus, only loyal to humanity.
LIARA: She's the Shadow Broker. Say hello to your new questgiver. Squadmate? Nah. Maybe for a mission or two.
GRUNT: His conversations were never horribly enlightening to begin with, but you're his battlemaster. He fights for you no matter what.
WREX: Busy rallying the krogans, but I have a feeling he'll be there for the final battle.
THANE: If he stays, decides to stick it out to the end. Keeps you tabbed on how things are going with his illness and his son. You might run into a conflict with him if you cause a massive slaughter instead of just killing one man.
SAMARA/MORINTH: Will probably take off, but if they stay, Samara's the only one you'll run into a problem with if you insist on sticking it to her Code.
TALI: She either loves you or hates you at this point, so how she behaves around you depends on your actions in ME2 (if you didn't recruit her, she's assumed dead). Will side with Garrus during the big conflict.
ZAEED: If he sticks around, expect more "and I was the only one who got out alive" stories. He never runs out.
LEGION: A diplomatic representative for the geth. He comes in handy if you wish to make peace between organics and synthetics.
JACK: You might see her begin to "heal" a little, gradually integrating into the crew and perhaps getting along with a few of them. Conflict would arise if you sell out to Cerberus.
I covered Garrus.
[quote]Advantages of new characters.[/quote]
Did I say we shouldn't have them?
[quote]1. 100% of the content available to 100% of the purchasers of ME3. [/quote]
Well, durr. You'll need 'em for the minimal imports and stuff.
[quote]2. No need to worry about who may or may not be alive. It's no good giving Tali a quest for an anti reaper dohicky if she's dead.[/quote]
Naturally. However, attaching certain kind-of-sort-of helpful content to surviving squadmates would emphasize the consequences of getting them killed. This is not unfair because it gives old players a bonus for spending so much money on BW, plus the death of a squaddie results from either bad decision making or intentional removal of content.
[quote]3. If any voice actor will do, the cost is cheaper than employing a specfic one. [/quote]
I covered this above.
[quote]4. Squad can be tailored to the story in the same way ME2's is.[/quote]
You know what'd be really tailored to the story? A team I can trust. The best of the best.
[quote]5. Less need to worry about resets, it's much easier to upscale one character than 12. New characters , new powers.[/quote]
You'll have to explain this one to me. And again, I think your opinion on the whole skill-level thing is bull anyway.
[quote]6. You know that any resource you use on a new character will not be wasted on the "dead". [/quote]
How is it "wasted" if a squadmate is more likely to be alive than dead? That's like saying "Oh, there's only a 90% chance it will rain, so I should throw out this umbrella."
[quote]7. ME3 looks more like a new game and less like an expansion pack.[/quote]
And yet, you want levels and skills to carry over as if it WERE an expansion pack.
SMELLS LIKE HYPOCRISY.
Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 15 février 2011 - 06:43 .
#607
Posté 15 février 2011 - 06:45
AdmiralCheez
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Personally, I think forcing in story elements to explain the ultimate "well, duhs" of gaming is a bit absurd.BobSmith101 wrote...
Gameplay and lore should compliment each other.
For example. In BG II they wanted to get rid of all your overpowered BG stuff. As a result you end up in prison at the start of the game with no gear. That's a less heavy handed version of the Lazarus project. Had they simply modified your inventory without explanation that would have been stupid.
"Shepard, before you go, I should tell you--there's a special chip in your personal computer that allows you to download your memories so we can reboot you on a clone of yourself if you happen to die. We call it quicksaving."
#608
Posté 15 février 2011 - 06:54
Big stupid jellyfish
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I wish people would stop ranting about this being more expensive than that and presenting their opinions as facts if they're not game developers or Bioware employees, really. We don't know much about VAs' contracts, amount of effort, time and money spent on X versus Y, ME3 budget and Bioware's list of priorities.
#609
Posté 15 février 2011 - 06:56
AdmiralCheez
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@Big stupid jellyfish: That's actually one of the points I'm trying to make. Did I fail?
#610
Posté 15 février 2011 - 06:58
AkiKishi
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[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...
[quote]BobSmith101 wrote...
1.Your overstating the simplicity.It's not a case of just true false.[/quote]
See Gibbed save editor.
[quote]2.Yes and no... ME2 is initially driven by Miranda and Jacob , agree ? You can't drive the game through characters that may not be there. [/quote]
No, it wasn't. There just needed to be someone to wake Shep up and tell him/her how to get to the shuttle. Any and all "important" roles can be accomplished by NPCs. The fact
that some of them happen to be squaddies is just a bonus. For example,
Wrex could have been just some dude that tells you where to find Fist,
Liara could have just stayed on the ship and never fought, Tali could
have just given you the evidence and ran, and so on.
As for the fact that they may not be present? Then they could easily fill the role of advisor/commentator/support. The Spock to your Kirk, so to speak. Not necessary for the story, but they help you out and make things personal. Besides, the fact that an important ally may not be there when you need them? GASP! CONSEQUENCES!
[quote]3. Returning Voice Actors are more expensive. - Once an actor knows you want them for a specific job the fee goes up (unless you contract them for a series). If you just need "any old actor" they don't have negotiating power.[/quote]
They hired Martin Sheen. It's safe to say budget is a non-issue. Additionally, we don't know what kind of contracts these actors signed. They could have been sealed for the whole trilogy from day one.
[quote]4. ME3 needs to appeal to people who never played ME1 or ME2 if you need to have played ME2 to play ME3 it's not a game, it's an expansion pack. [/quote]
How would people like Garrus and Miranda not appeal to people who've never played the game before? That's like saying people won't like Han Solo if they never saw A New Hope. He's still pretty badass in Empire and RotJ.
Now, imagine how horrible Return of the King would have been without Legolas, Gimili, Samwise, Merry, and Pippin. Technically, RotK is a "stand-alone" movie/novel, not an "expansion pack," and each of the aforementioned characters could have been removed from the story with little or no consequence. HOWEVER, audiences new and old loved those guys. You don't just rip half the cast out for the final act.
[quote]5. That would mean all of the character background on the disk for the characters from ME2, plus even more for ME3 to keep them interesting. That's more work thank just making 10 new characters.[/quote]
I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Seriously, all it takes is two or three lines of dialogue to explain who a character is. That's a lot easier than creating a whole new character.
[quote]6. If you can come up with an example for all 12 you might have more to back up your case.[/quote]
Is that a dare? *waggles eyebrows*
MORDIN: Science officer. Provides upgrade bonuses and helps you study indoctrination/Reaper engineering. Would side with Garrus if you had to choose between humans and non-humans.
KASUMI: Becomes a liason between you and the Shadow Broker, dropping useful hints here and there. Not necessarily a squaddie.
MIRANDA, JACOB, AND THE VS: Pretty much the same as Garrus, only loyal to humanity.
LIARA: She's the Shadow Broker. Say hello to your new questgiver. Squadmate? Nah. Maybe for a mission or two.
GRUNT: His conversations were never horribly enlightening to begin with, but you're his battlemaster. He fights for you no matter what.
WREX: Busy rallying the krogans, but I have a feeling he'll be there for the final battle.
THANE: If he stays, decides to stick it out to the end. Keeps you tabbed on how things are going with his illness and his son. You might run into a conflict with him if you cause a massive slaughter instead of just killing one man.
SAMARA/MORINTH: Will probably take off, but if they stay, Samara's the only one you'll run into a problem with if you insist on sticking it to her Code.
TALI: She either loves you or hates you at this point, so how she behaves around you depends on your actions in ME2 (if you didn't recruit her, she's assumed dead). Will side with Garrus during the big conflict.
ZAEED: If he sticks around, expect more "and I was the only one who got out alive" stories. He never runs out.
LEGION: A diplomatic representative for the geth. He comes in handy if you wish to make peace between organics and synthetics.
JACK: You might see her begin to "heal" a little, gradually integrating into the crew and perhaps getting along with a few of them. Conflict would arise if you sell out to Cerberus.
I covered Garrus.
[quote]Advantages of new characters.[/quote]
Did I say we shouldn't have them?
[quote]1. 100% of the content available to 100% of the purchasers of ME3. [/quote]
Well, durr. You'll need 'em for the minimal imports and stuff.
[quote]2. No need to worry about who may or may not be alive. It's no good giving Tali a quest for an anti reaper dohicky if she's dead.[/quote]
Naturally. However, attaching certain kind-of-sort-of helpful content to surviving squadmates would emphasize the consequences of getting them killed. This is not unfair because it gives old players a bonus for spending so much money on BW, plus the death of a squaddie results from either bad decision making or intentional removal of content.
[quote]3. If any voice actor will do, the cost is cheaper than employing a specfic one. [/quote]
I covered this above.
[quote]4. Squad can be tailored to the story in the same way ME2's is.[/quote]
You know what'd be really tailored to the story? A team I can trust. The best of the best.
[quote]5. Less need to worry about resets, it's much easier to upscale one character than 12. New characters , new powers.[/quote]
You'll have to explain this one to me. And again, I think your opinion on the whole skill-level thing is bull anyway.
[quote]6. You know that any resource you use on a new character will not be wasted on the "dead". [/quote]
How is it "wasted" if a squadmate is more likely to be alive than dead? That's like saying "Oh, there's only a 90% chance it will rain, so I should throw out this umbrella."
[quote]7. ME3 looks more like a new game and less like an expansion pack.[/quote]
And yet, you want levels and skills to carry over as if it WERE an expansion pack.
SMELLS LIKE HYPOCRISY.
[/quote]
I hate long posts <sigh>
1. Is this refering to the "Wrex" flag ? Because that's a totally different mechanic.
2. Ok think this through. While it's true technically that any NPC will work. If you have 2 specific ones you need to dialogue sets. If if could be any of 12, you need 12 sets of dialogue. See the problem ?
3.If they are DEAD they can't really fill any role beyond that of corpse...
4.What has Martin Sheen done lately ? I have a lot of respect for him as an actor but I'd hardly call him A list anymore.
5. So if all ME2 characters had 2 or 3 lines of dialogue you would know who they are ? Better inform Bioware that they wasted over 100 lines they never needed on each.
6. Start Shepard at level 30 , scale up the powers for another 10 points worth. Add new characters with new powers. While it's quite feasible to scale up everyones powers, it's easier to just have to do one especaily if you need to tweak them.
7. If it's not used it's wasted. Having 4 "dead" characters that are never seen by the player is a waste. If we say 150 lines per character that's 600 wasted lines.
8. Actually I want them to make everything new before the SM I'd have said carry over Tali and Garrus and Legion and Grunt for various reasons. But since they could be dead, not really worth it now.If they want to carry over things I want them the way they were at the end of ME2.
Nothing hypocritical about that.
[quote]BobSmith101 wrote...
1.Your overstating the simplicity.It's not a case of just true false.[/quote]
See Gibbed save editor.
[quote]2.Yes and no... ME2 is initially driven by Miranda and Jacob , agree ? You can't drive the game through characters that may not be there. [/quote]
No, it wasn't. There just needed to be someone to wake Shep up and tell him/her how to get to the shuttle. Any and all "important" roles can be accomplished by NPCs. The fact
that some of them happen to be squaddies is just a bonus. For example,
Wrex could have been just some dude that tells you where to find Fist,
Liara could have just stayed on the ship and never fought, Tali could
have just given you the evidence and ran, and so on.
As for the fact that they may not be present? Then they could easily fill the role of advisor/commentator/support. The Spock to your Kirk, so to speak. Not necessary for the story, but they help you out and make things personal. Besides, the fact that an important ally may not be there when you need them? GASP! CONSEQUENCES!
[quote]3. Returning Voice Actors are more expensive. - Once an actor knows you want them for a specific job the fee goes up (unless you contract them for a series). If you just need "any old actor" they don't have negotiating power.[/quote]
They hired Martin Sheen. It's safe to say budget is a non-issue. Additionally, we don't know what kind of contracts these actors signed. They could have been sealed for the whole trilogy from day one.
[quote]4. ME3 needs to appeal to people who never played ME1 or ME2 if you need to have played ME2 to play ME3 it's not a game, it's an expansion pack. [/quote]
How would people like Garrus and Miranda not appeal to people who've never played the game before? That's like saying people won't like Han Solo if they never saw A New Hope. He's still pretty badass in Empire and RotJ.
Now, imagine how horrible Return of the King would have been without Legolas, Gimili, Samwise, Merry, and Pippin. Technically, RotK is a "stand-alone" movie/novel, not an "expansion pack," and each of the aforementioned characters could have been removed from the story with little or no consequence. HOWEVER, audiences new and old loved those guys. You don't just rip half the cast out for the final act.
[quote]5. That would mean all of the character background on the disk for the characters from ME2, plus even more for ME3 to keep them interesting. That's more work thank just making 10 new characters.[/quote]
I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Seriously, all it takes is two or three lines of dialogue to explain who a character is. That's a lot easier than creating a whole new character.
[quote]6. If you can come up with an example for all 12 you might have more to back up your case.[/quote]
Is that a dare? *waggles eyebrows*
MORDIN: Science officer. Provides upgrade bonuses and helps you study indoctrination/Reaper engineering. Would side with Garrus if you had to choose between humans and non-humans.
KASUMI: Becomes a liason between you and the Shadow Broker, dropping useful hints here and there. Not necessarily a squaddie.
MIRANDA, JACOB, AND THE VS: Pretty much the same as Garrus, only loyal to humanity.
LIARA: She's the Shadow Broker. Say hello to your new questgiver. Squadmate? Nah. Maybe for a mission or two.
GRUNT: His conversations were never horribly enlightening to begin with, but you're his battlemaster. He fights for you no matter what.
WREX: Busy rallying the krogans, but I have a feeling he'll be there for the final battle.
THANE: If he stays, decides to stick it out to the end. Keeps you tabbed on how things are going with his illness and his son. You might run into a conflict with him if you cause a massive slaughter instead of just killing one man.
SAMARA/MORINTH: Will probably take off, but if they stay, Samara's the only one you'll run into a problem with if you insist on sticking it to her Code.
TALI: She either loves you or hates you at this point, so how she behaves around you depends on your actions in ME2 (if you didn't recruit her, she's assumed dead). Will side with Garrus during the big conflict.
ZAEED: If he sticks around, expect more "and I was the only one who got out alive" stories. He never runs out.
LEGION: A diplomatic representative for the geth. He comes in handy if you wish to make peace between organics and synthetics.
JACK: You might see her begin to "heal" a little, gradually integrating into the crew and perhaps getting along with a few of them. Conflict would arise if you sell out to Cerberus.
I covered Garrus.
[quote]Advantages of new characters.[/quote]
Did I say we shouldn't have them?
[quote]1. 100% of the content available to 100% of the purchasers of ME3. [/quote]
Well, durr. You'll need 'em for the minimal imports and stuff.
[quote]2. No need to worry about who may or may not be alive. It's no good giving Tali a quest for an anti reaper dohicky if she's dead.[/quote]
Naturally. However, attaching certain kind-of-sort-of helpful content to surviving squadmates would emphasize the consequences of getting them killed. This is not unfair because it gives old players a bonus for spending so much money on BW, plus the death of a squaddie results from either bad decision making or intentional removal of content.
[quote]3. If any voice actor will do, the cost is cheaper than employing a specfic one. [/quote]
I covered this above.
[quote]4. Squad can be tailored to the story in the same way ME2's is.[/quote]
You know what'd be really tailored to the story? A team I can trust. The best of the best.
[quote]5. Less need to worry about resets, it's much easier to upscale one character than 12. New characters , new powers.[/quote]
You'll have to explain this one to me. And again, I think your opinion on the whole skill-level thing is bull anyway.
[quote]6. You know that any resource you use on a new character will not be wasted on the "dead". [/quote]
How is it "wasted" if a squadmate is more likely to be alive than dead? That's like saying "Oh, there's only a 90% chance it will rain, so I should throw out this umbrella."
[quote]7. ME3 looks more like a new game and less like an expansion pack.[/quote]
And yet, you want levels and skills to carry over as if it WERE an expansion pack.
SMELLS LIKE HYPOCRISY.
[/quote]
I hate long posts <sigh>
1. Is this refering to the "Wrex" flag ? Because that's a totally different mechanic.
2. Ok think this through. While it's true technically that any NPC will work. If you have 2 specific ones you need to dialogue sets. If if could be any of 12, you need 12 sets of dialogue. See the problem ?
3.If they are DEAD they can't really fill any role beyond that of corpse...
4.What has Martin Sheen done lately ? I have a lot of respect for him as an actor but I'd hardly call him A list anymore.
5. So if all ME2 characters had 2 or 3 lines of dialogue you would know who they are ? Better inform Bioware that they wasted over 100 lines they never needed on each.
6. Start Shepard at level 30 , scale up the powers for another 10 points worth. Add new characters with new powers. While it's quite feasible to scale up everyones powers, it's easier to just have to do one especaily if you need to tweak them.
7. If it's not used it's wasted. Having 4 "dead" characters that are never seen by the player is a waste. If we say 150 lines per character that's 600 wasted lines.
8. Actually I want them to make everything new before the SM I'd have said carry over Tali and Garrus and Legion and Grunt for various reasons. But since they could be dead, not really worth it now.If they want to carry over things I want them the way they were at the end of ME2.
Nothing hypocritical about that.
#611
Posté 15 février 2011 - 07:16
Big stupid jellyfish
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AdmiralCheez wrote...
@Big stupid jellyfish: That's actually one of the points I'm trying to make. Did I fail?
Oh no! I agree with you and like your posts - and they are much more constructive and polite than mine, I have to add.
It's just that this 'Bioware would do this/that because it's cheaper' thing is annoying me, and I had to rant; the post wasn't addressed to anyone specifically. Actually, all this 'ME2 squaddies would be just crappy cameos' talk is annoying and done to death, and sometimes I just want to catch Zulu or someone else who's calling ME2 buddies 'zombies' and make a $100 bet or something. I'm willing to place a bet on all six ME2 LIs being recruitable in ME3. (At least six LIs.)
#612
Posté 15 février 2011 - 07:21
AdmiralCheez
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You get pretty tl;dr yourself, my friend.BobSmith101 wrote...
I hate long posts
No, it's the same. A box is either checked or unchecked. That's all there is to it.1. Is this refering to the "Wrex" flag ? Because that's a totally different mechanic.
2. Ok think this through. While it's true technically that any NPC will work. If you have 2 specific ones you need to dialogue sets. If if could be any of 12, you need 12 sets of dialogue. See the problem ?
A person does not have to be a squadmate to move the story forward (Anderson). Conversely, it isn't necessary that a squadmate play a major role in driving the plot (Thane).
Well, you either killed them because you suck at the game or you wanted them gone. You have no one to blame but yourself. Stop trying to punish everyone else for it.3.If they are DEAD they can't really fill any role beyond that of corpse...
They also hired Seth, Yvonne, and Adam Baldwin. They're recruiting all sorts of folks with large fanbases. Ooh, and Clint Mansell's doing the score now! Obviously, they are pulling out all the stops.4.What has Martin Sheen done lately ? I have a lot of respect for him as an actor but I'd hardly call him A list anymore.
STEP ONE: establish that characters have met.5. So if all ME2 characters had 2 or 3 lines of dialogue you would know who they are ? Better inform Bioware that they wasted over 100 lines they never needed on each.
"Shepard, is that you?"
"Tali, what are you doing here?"
STEP TWO: explain what the characters did.
"I suppose I get points for being part of the team that took down Saren."
STEP THREE: drop little tidbits to create a feeling of nostalgia.
"Just like old times!"
"Back on Ilos, we had no idea what the hell we were facing. I think I preferred blind optimism."
Possibly more than three lines, but it'd take a total of thirty seconds or less.
I still have no idea what you are trying to say, but since squaddies share a lot of the same powers as Shepard, with the only exception being Kasumi's Shadow Strike, your argument is invalid.6. Start Shepard at level 30 , scale up the powers for another 10 points worth. Add new characters with new powers. While it's quite feasible to scale up everyones powers, it's easier to just have to do one especaily if you need to tweak them.
Imagine how many lines I waste playing as a female instead of a male, or as a renegade instead of a paragon. Imagine how many lines I waste skipping sidequests and passing up recruitment opportunities. Imagine how many lines I waste passing up free DLC.7. If it's not used it's wasted. Having 4 "dead" characters that are never seen by the player is a waste. If we say 150 lines per character that's 600 wasted lines.
Really confusing wording. Say again?8. Actually I want them to make everything new before the SM I'd have said carry over Tali and Garrus and Legion and Grunt for various reasons. But since they could be dead, not really worth it now.If they want to carry over things I want them the way they were at the end of ME2.
Well, it's a little sad that you're more concerned with losing your Pull Field than you are with losing your entire team.Nothing hypocritical about that.
#613
Posté 15 février 2011 - 07:25
AdmiralCheez
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Awww, I'm flattered!Big stupid jellyfish wrote...
Oh no! I agree with you and like your posts - and they are much more constructive and polite than mine, I have to add.
You and me both. Of course, if I bet against Zulu over all his theories, I'd be rich come the winter of 2011.It's just that this 'Bioware would do this/that because it's cheaper' thing is annoying me, and I had to rant; the post wasn't addressed to anyone specifically. Actually, all this 'ME2 squaddies would be just crappy cameos' talk is annoying and done to death, and sometimes I just want to catch Zulu or someone else who's calling ME2 buddies 'zombies' and make a $100 bet or something. I'm willing to place a bet on all six ME2 LIs being recruitable in ME3. (At least six LIs.)
#614
Posté 15 février 2011 - 07:34
Terraneaux
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AdmiralCheez wrote...
You and me both. Of course, if I bet against Zulu over all his theories, I'd be rich come the winter of 2011.
Hey! I got first dibs!
#615
Posté 15 février 2011 - 07:41
AkiKishi
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[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...
[quote]BobSmith101 wrote...
I hate long posts[/quote]
You get pretty tl;dr yourself, my friend.
[quote]1. Is this refering to the "Wrex" flag ? Because that's a totally different mechanic.[/quote]
No, it's the same. A box is either checked or unchecked. That's all there is to it.
[quote]2. Ok think this through. While it's true technically that any NPC will work. If you have 2 specific ones you need to dialogue sets. If if could be any of 12, you need 12 sets of dialogue. See the problem ?[/quote]
A person does not have to be a squadmate to move the story forward (Anderson). Conversely, it isn't necessary that a squadmate play a major role in driving the plot (Thane).
[quote]3.If they are DEAD they can't really fill any role beyond that of corpse... [/quote]
Well, you either killed them because you suck at the game or you wanted them gone. You have no one to blame but yourself. Stop trying to punish everyone else for it.
[quote]4.What has Martin Sheen done lately ? I have a lot of respect for him as an actor but I'd hardly call him A list anymore.[/quote]
They also hired Seth, Yvonne, and Adam Baldwin. They're recruiting all sorts of folks with large fanbases. Ooh, and Clint Mansell's doing the score now! Obviously, they are pulling out all the stops.
[quote]5. So if all ME2 characters had 2 or 3 lines of dialogue you would know who they are ? Better inform Bioware that they wasted over 100 lines they never needed on each. [/quote]
STEP ONE: establish that characters have met.
"Shepard, is that you?"
"Tali, what are you doing here?"
STEP TWO: explain what the characters did.
"I suppose I get points for being part of the team that took down Saren."
STEP THREE: drop little tidbits to create a feeling of nostalgia.
"Just like old times!"
"Back on Ilos, we had no idea what the hell we were facing. I think I preferred blind optimism."
Possibly more than three lines, but it'd take a total of thirty seconds or less.
[quote]6. Start Shepard at level 30 , scale up the powers for another 10 points worth. Add new characters with new powers. While it's quite feasible to scale up everyones powers, it's easier to just have to do one especaily if you need to tweak them. [/quote]
I still have no idea what you are trying to say, but since squaddies share a lot of the same powers as Shepard, with the only exception being Kasumi's Shadow Strike, your argument is invalid.
[quote]7. If it's not used it's wasted. Having 4 "dead" characters that are never seen by the player is a waste. If we say 150 lines per character that's 600 wasted lines.[/quote]
Imagine how many lines I waste playing as a female instead of a male, or as a renegade instead of a paragon. Imagine how many lines I waste skipping sidequests and passing up recruitment opportunities. Imagine how many lines I waste passing up free DLC.
[quote]8. Actually I want them to make everything new before the SM I'd have said carry over Tali and Garrus and Legion and Grunt for various reasons. But since they could be dead, not really worth it now.If they want to carry over things I want them the way they were at the end of ME2.[/quote]
Really confusing wording. Say again?
[quote]Nothing hypocritical about that. [/quote]
Well, it's a little sad that you're more concerned with losing your Pull Field than you are with losing your entire team.
[/quote]
0.Wrex only has two possible states alive/dead. Grunt has 3 alive/dead/never activated.
"Real shame Grunt died on that mission"
"Who the hell is Grunt" ?
It gets even more complex if you want to evolve relationships.
1.Which means not only do you have to add even more NPCs to cover the possibility , but you reduce them to inconsiquential roles. Where as if you added the traditional 2 person intro team it would cover both.
2.I could easily say the same to you stop trying to punish ME3 players by forcing them to have less content. For the record my squad is 100 % intact. Does not change my view in the slightest.
3.Your forcing a history on the player they were never part of. You could say ME2 did the same Garrus/Tali. But it's very different doing that for 12 characters than 2.
4. I know you were being sarcastic. But that's actually true.
5. Before I knew the possible outcome of the SM I'd have given Garrus/Tali a free pass to ME3 because they have been in the other games. Legion had an interesting story hook as did Grunt. However since any of those could be dead. Can't really make Grunt the key to the genophage cure if he's dead. Can't really have Tali/Legion broker peace if they are dead.
6.My Squad signed up for the suicide mission that implies they were not coming back anyway. That Bioware made the suicide mission a walk in the park mission is a whole other arguement.
[quote]BobSmith101 wrote...
I hate long posts[/quote]
You get pretty tl;dr yourself, my friend.
[quote]1. Is this refering to the "Wrex" flag ? Because that's a totally different mechanic.[/quote]
No, it's the same. A box is either checked or unchecked. That's all there is to it.
[quote]2. Ok think this through. While it's true technically that any NPC will work. If you have 2 specific ones you need to dialogue sets. If if could be any of 12, you need 12 sets of dialogue. See the problem ?[/quote]
A person does not have to be a squadmate to move the story forward (Anderson). Conversely, it isn't necessary that a squadmate play a major role in driving the plot (Thane).
[quote]3.If they are DEAD they can't really fill any role beyond that of corpse... [/quote]
Well, you either killed them because you suck at the game or you wanted them gone. You have no one to blame but yourself. Stop trying to punish everyone else for it.
[quote]4.What has Martin Sheen done lately ? I have a lot of respect for him as an actor but I'd hardly call him A list anymore.[/quote]
They also hired Seth, Yvonne, and Adam Baldwin. They're recruiting all sorts of folks with large fanbases. Ooh, and Clint Mansell's doing the score now! Obviously, they are pulling out all the stops.
[quote]5. So if all ME2 characters had 2 or 3 lines of dialogue you would know who they are ? Better inform Bioware that they wasted over 100 lines they never needed on each. [/quote]
STEP ONE: establish that characters have met.
"Shepard, is that you?"
"Tali, what are you doing here?"
STEP TWO: explain what the characters did.
"I suppose I get points for being part of the team that took down Saren."
STEP THREE: drop little tidbits to create a feeling of nostalgia.
"Just like old times!"
"Back on Ilos, we had no idea what the hell we were facing. I think I preferred blind optimism."
Possibly more than three lines, but it'd take a total of thirty seconds or less.
[quote]6. Start Shepard at level 30 , scale up the powers for another 10 points worth. Add new characters with new powers. While it's quite feasible to scale up everyones powers, it's easier to just have to do one especaily if you need to tweak them. [/quote]
I still have no idea what you are trying to say, but since squaddies share a lot of the same powers as Shepard, with the only exception being Kasumi's Shadow Strike, your argument is invalid.
[quote]7. If it's not used it's wasted. Having 4 "dead" characters that are never seen by the player is a waste. If we say 150 lines per character that's 600 wasted lines.[/quote]
Imagine how many lines I waste playing as a female instead of a male, or as a renegade instead of a paragon. Imagine how many lines I waste skipping sidequests and passing up recruitment opportunities. Imagine how many lines I waste passing up free DLC.
[quote]8. Actually I want them to make everything new before the SM I'd have said carry over Tali and Garrus and Legion and Grunt for various reasons. But since they could be dead, not really worth it now.If they want to carry over things I want them the way they were at the end of ME2.[/quote]
Really confusing wording. Say again?
[quote]Nothing hypocritical about that. [/quote]
Well, it's a little sad that you're more concerned with losing your Pull Field than you are with losing your entire team.
[/quote]
0.Wrex only has two possible states alive/dead. Grunt has 3 alive/dead/never activated.
"Real shame Grunt died on that mission"
"Who the hell is Grunt" ?
It gets even more complex if you want to evolve relationships.
1.Which means not only do you have to add even more NPCs to cover the possibility , but you reduce them to inconsiquential roles. Where as if you added the traditional 2 person intro team it would cover both.
2.I could easily say the same to you stop trying to punish ME3 players by forcing them to have less content. For the record my squad is 100 % intact. Does not change my view in the slightest.
3.Your forcing a history on the player they were never part of. You could say ME2 did the same Garrus/Tali. But it's very different doing that for 12 characters than 2.
4. I know you were being sarcastic. But that's actually true.
5. Before I knew the possible outcome of the SM I'd have given Garrus/Tali a free pass to ME3 because they have been in the other games. Legion had an interesting story hook as did Grunt. However since any of those could be dead. Can't really make Grunt the key to the genophage cure if he's dead. Can't really have Tali/Legion broker peace if they are dead.
6.My Squad signed up for the suicide mission that implies they were not coming back anyway. That Bioware made the suicide mission a walk in the park mission is a whole other arguement.
Modifié par BobSmith101, 15 février 2011 - 07:41 .
#616
Posté 15 février 2011 - 07:48
Wittand25
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You would loose that bet. In fact the Lis are the least likely to return as permanent companions because they are the hardest to write for. It is very hard and usually quite boring to write a relationship as opposed to a romance and all the Li´s would also require non romantic dialog and that is too much an effort to write basically two version of each of them considering they may not be in the import save in the first place.Big stupid jellyfish wrote...
AdmiralCheez wrote...
@Big stupid jellyfish: That's actually one of the points I'm trying to make. Did I fail?
Oh no! I agree with you and like your posts - and they are much more constructive and polite than mine, I have to add.
It's just that this 'Bioware would do this/that because it's cheaper' thing is annoying me, and I had to rant; the post wasn't addressed to anyone specifically. Actually, all this 'ME2 squaddies would be just crappy cameos' talk is annoying and done to death, and sometimes I just want to catch Zulu or someone else who's calling ME2 buddies 'zombies' and make a $100 bet or something. I'm willing to place a bet on all six ME2 LIs being recruitable in ME3. (At least six LIs.)
Without knowing the contract of the VA and other things we can not determine which scenario cost less money to produce. But we do know enough that we can say that any resource will be better invested in a new squad-member that will always be part of ME3 than in one whose very existence depends on the import. Having a new squad is also an opportunity for downsizing the team and so giving the squad-members more screen-time and a better involvement with the story. I also pointed out in another post that if the squad stays the same as in ME2 the suicide mission becomes pointless, because all that squad-members do is standing around on the ship waiting for Sheppard to allow them to follow on a mission. While them leaving and starting to support Sheppard as not recruit-able NPCs allows them to play more important roles in ME3 and does their personalities more justice than just stroking the ego of Sheppard/the player because he is so awesome that they forget their personality, ambitions and own agendas just to be close to this awesomeness.
#617
Posté 15 février 2011 - 07:55
CroGamer002
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Big stupid jellyfish wrote...
It's just that this 'Bioware would do this/that because it's cheaper' thing is annoying me, and I had to rant; the post wasn't addressed to anyone specifically. Actually, all this 'ME2 squaddies would be just crappy cameos' talk is annoying and done to death, and sometimes I just want to catch Zulu or someone else who's calling ME2 buddies 'zombies' and make a $100 bet or something. I'm willing to place a bet on all six ME2 LIs being recruitable in ME3. (At least six LIs.)
I would also add Legion in that bet.:innocent:
#618
Posté 15 février 2011 - 07:56
CroGamer002
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Wittand25 wrote...
You would loose that bet. In fact the Lis are the least likely to return as permanent companions because they are the hardest to write for. It is very hard and usually quite boring to write a relationship as opposed to a romance and all the Li´s would also require non romantic dialog and that is too much an effort to write basically two version of each of them considering they may not be in the import save in the first place.Big stupid jellyfish wrote...
AdmiralCheez wrote...
@Big stupid jellyfish: That's actually one of the points I'm trying to make. Did I fail?
Oh no! I agree with you and like your posts - and they are much more constructive and polite than mine, I have to add.
It's just that this 'Bioware would do this/that because it's cheaper' thing is annoying me, and I had to rant; the post wasn't addressed to anyone specifically. Actually, all this 'ME2 squaddies would be just crappy cameos' talk is annoying and done to death, and sometimes I just want to catch Zulu or someone else who's calling ME2 buddies 'zombies' and make a $100 bet or something. I'm willing to place a bet on all six ME2 LIs being recruitable in ME3. (At least six LIs.)
Without knowing the contract of the VA and other things we can not determine which scenario cost less money to produce. But we do know enough that we can say that any resource will be better invested in a new squad-member that will always be part of ME3 than in one whose very existence depends on the import. Having a new squad is also an opportunity for downsizing the team and so giving the squad-members more screen-time and a better involvement with the story. I also pointed out in another post that if the squad stays the same as in ME2 the suicide mission becomes pointless, because all that squad-members do is standing around on the ship waiting for Sheppard to allow them to follow on a mission. While them leaving and starting to support Sheppard as not recruit-able NPCs allows them to play more important roles in ME3 and does their personalities more justice than just stroking the ego of Sheppard/the player because he is so awesome that they forget their personality, ambitions and own agendas just to be close to this awesomeness.
Are you saying Bioware is lazy to do some apparently hard work?
#619
Posté 15 février 2011 - 08:05
Big stupid jellyfish
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Wittand25 wrote...
You would loose that bet. In fact the Lis are the least likely to return as permanent companions because they are the hardest to write for. It is very hard and usually quite boring to write a relationship as opposed to a romance and all the Li´s would also require non romantic dialog and that is too much an effort to write basically two version of each of them considering they may not be in the import save in the first place.Big stupid jellyfish wrote...
AdmiralCheez wrote...
@Big stupid jellyfish: That's actually one of the points I'm trying to make. Did I fail?
Oh no! I agree with you and like your posts - and they are much more constructive and polite than mine, I have to add.
It's just that this 'Bioware would do this/that because it's cheaper' thing is annoying me, and I had to rant; the post wasn't addressed to anyone specifically. Actually, all this 'ME2 squaddies would be just crappy cameos' talk is annoying and done to death, and sometimes I just want to catch Zulu or someone else who's calling ME2 buddies 'zombies' and make a $100 bet or something. I'm willing to place a bet on all six ME2 LIs being recruitable in ME3. (At least six LIs.)
Without knowing the contract of the VA and other things we can not determine which scenario cost less money to produce. But we do know enough that we can say that any resource will be better invested in a new squad-member that will always be part of ME3 than in one whose very existence depends on the import. Having a new squad is also an opportunity for downsizing the team and so giving the squad-members more screen-time and a better involvement with the story. I also pointed out in another post that if the squad stays the same as in ME2 the suicide mission becomes pointless, because all that squad-members do is standing around on the ship waiting for Sheppard to allow them to follow on a mission. While them leaving and starting to support Sheppard as not recruit-able NPCs allows them to play more important roles in ME3 and does their personalities more justice than just stroking the ego of Sheppard/the player because he is so awesome that they forget their personality, ambitions and own agendas just to be close to this awesomeness.
Let's make a bet, then?
If you're not ok with money bets we can come up with something else.
P.S. If you think that writing established relationships is boring compared to writing progressing romances you're mistaken. From my experience, at least; I've roleplayed and written both.
P.P.S. Who the hell is Sheppard? Main ME character is called Shepard. Well, maybe that's why we have different opinions - you're, in fact, from a parallel universe where there's a guy called Sheppard, but no Shepard. /nitpicking, yes. but really, guys, is it so difficult to remember how to write your character's last name?
#620
Posté 15 février 2011 - 08:05
Wittand25
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Not thinking ahead and taking all the problems into account that arise from the import feature, not factoring in that resources are limited and listening to a bunch of fanboys and then trying to please that minority of fanboys on the other hand is reckless and will almost certainly end with a mediocre product that damages the reputation of the whole franchise.Mesina2 wrote...
Knowing what is doable, thinking about the amount of time/money/effort needed to create a game and then based on the resources available trying to make the best game possible is hardly lazy.Wittand25 wrote...
Are you saying Bioware is lazy to do some apparently hard work?
Modifié par Wittand25, 15 février 2011 - 08:13 .
#621
Posté 15 février 2011 - 08:12
CroGamer002
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Wittand25 wrote...
Knowing what is doable, thinking about the amount of time/money/effort needed to create a game and then based on the resources available trying to make the best game possible is hardly lazy.Mesina2 wrote...
Are you saying Bioware is lazy to do some apparently hard work?
Not thinking ahead and taking all the problems into account that arise from the import feature, not factoring in that resources are limited and listening to a bunch of fanboys and then trying to please that minority of fanboys on the other hand is reckless and will almost certainly end with a mediocre product that damages the reputation of the whole franchise.
Dude, Bioware got over 120 000 000 USD on Mass Effect 2!
That's twice as much then with Mass Effect 1!
I think they have resources.
And you don't have to insult all fanbases for expecting Bioware to do proper continuity in last game of the trilogy with character they're fan.
EDIT#1
Miscalculated gross revenue.
Modifié par Mesina2, 15 février 2011 - 08:13 .
#622
Posté 15 février 2011 - 08:20
Wittand25
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Time, manpower and money is still limited and the first two cannot be increased unlimited, the third one not if they want to make a profit. So the issue to spend the resources in the most effective way is still present.Mesina2 wrote...
Dude, Bioware got over 60 000 000 USD on Mass Effect 2!
That's twice as much then with Mass Effect 1!
I think they have resources.
And you don't have to insult all fanbases for expecting Bioware to do proper continuity in last game of the trilogy with character they're fan.
When did I insult anyone in the post you quoted ? Fanboy is not an insult. I do admit however that I do not have a high opinion on those who claim to be fans but do not really care about the characters unless the characters continue to please their ego and continue to trail behind them no matter how stupid this is from the point of the story, the character of the NPC in question, or the effort needed by Bioware to achieve that goal.
#623
Posté 15 février 2011 - 08:27
CroGamer002
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Wittand25 wrote...
Time, manpower and money is still limited and the first two cannot be increased unlimited, the third one not if they want to make a profit. So the issue to spend the resources in the most effective way is still present.Mesina2 wrote...
Dude, Bioware got over 120 000 000 USD on Mass Effect 2!
That's twice as much then with Mass Effect 1!
I think they have resources.
And you don't have to insult all fanbases for expecting Bioware to do proper continuity in last game of the trilogy with character they're fan.
When did I insult anyone in the post you quoted ? Fanboy is not an insult. I do admit however that I do not have a high opinion on those who claim to be fans but do not really care about the characters unless the characters continue to please their ego and continue to trail behind them no matter how stupid this is from the point of the story, the character of the NPC in question, or the effort needed by Bioware to achieve that goal.
Fanboys are people who will defend someone or something to their last breath no matter how much they're wrong, they will annoy you and make that fanbase really disrespectful.
Most of the time they are also trolls and most often on Youtube.
Most known are in gaming are XBox and Sony fanboys.
Modifié par Mesina2, 15 février 2011 - 08:28 .
#624
Posté 15 février 2011 - 08:29
Big stupid jellyfish
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@Wittand25 So, would you dare to make a bet or not?
If you're sure that ME2 squaddies won't return as squadmates in ME3 you shouldn't be afraid of making it, really.
If you're sure that ME2 squaddies won't return as squadmates in ME3 you shouldn't be afraid of making it, really.
#625
Posté 15 février 2011 - 08:42
Wittand25
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What would the point of a bet with a total stranger on the Internet be ? There is now way to enforce either of us to stick to it if loosing it.Big stupid jellyfish wrote...
@Wittand25 So, would you dare to make a bet or not?
If you're sure that ME2 squaddies won't return as squadmates in ME3 you shouldn't be afraid of making it, really.
And frankly betting that not all of the six ME2 LIs will be permanent companions in ME3 is like betting that the sun will rise tomorrow, it somehow lacks the thrill of possibly loosing.
