927 réponses à ce sujet

[Wittand25]

Having all of them back as full squad-mates would be too expensive, because all the VO needed for optional and not easily accessible contend. It would also be harder to write for existing companions because they already have a backstory and a history with Sheppard that needs to be taken into account.
And there are variables every one of them has at least three options dead/unrecruited; not loyal but alive; loyal and alive,several of them like Samara and the LIs have even more. Addressing all of them and having them all as fully developed companions would use up a lot of time and money while having less pay off as these forums would suggest. Do not forget that the average player cares far less about particular characters than the average Bioware community member.
If the squad-mates of ME2 return in ME3 it will be like Wrex in ME2 or maybe even like Liara in LotSB giving a player with an ME2 import additional and/or different dialogue as reward without crippling the experience of a player who did not bother to import or did not even play ME2.

Modifié par Wittand25, 29 décembre 2010 - 01:34 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Here's another common misconception about squadmates: they signed on to stop the reapers.



Heh, no, they didn't. No more than Wrex or Ash/Kaidan did in ME1.

And BioWare has already shown that they're willing to "****** off fans" of specific characters if those characters don't fit into their story.



Yes, BioWare has shown instances of characters being optional. Legion, Grunt, Samara/Morinth/Thane/Tali. And look how that went. None of them are important to the actual story, with a possible exception of Tali for being on Freedom's Progress.

Grunt/Thane/Legion are completely inconsequential bar losing a couple conversations and a mission. Samara and Morinth is a prime example of how lazy BioWare can be with optional content, since Morinth uses the same character model and voice as Samara in the majority of instances.



So, if the ME2 squad returns, they will all be just as meaningless, or flavor squaddies if you will, as Grunt, Legion, or Morinth. And people will be pissed about that too.

Unless you want BioWare to make some of them key squaddies and have replacement characters for those who are dead that's the way it has to be. And how are they going to decide who comes back? Surely they won't bring back some of the love interests and not the others, and all those things like LI status and character resolution would have to be accounted for, which adds a LOT more variables than just "Is it dead? Y/N"

[JockBuster]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
Here's another common misconception about squadmates: they signed on to stop the reapers.
Heh, no, they didn't. No more than Wrex or Ash/Kaidan did in ME1.
And BioWare has already shown that they're willing to "****** off fans" of specific characters if those characters don't fit into their story.
Yes, BioWare has shown instances of characters being optional. Legion, Grunt, Samara/Morinth/Thane/Tali. And look how that went. None of them are important to the actual story, with a possible exception of Tali for being on Freedom's Progress.

If you didn't write the story then how do you know who is/is not important? Tali in ME1, "I want to find a Geth working alone by itself (ie Legion)."

Grunt/Thane/Legion are completely inconsequential bar losing a couple conversations and a mission. Samara and Morinth is a prime example of how lazy BioWare can be with optional content, since Morinth uses the same character model and voice as Samara in the majority of instances.

Grunt & Legion are "completely inconsequential," I think not, but we'll have to see what BW has in store for us in ME3. Old saw, "you made your bed now sleep in it." "Your decisions in ME1 & ME2 can/WILL have dire consequences in ME3" and "dead is DEAD" (CH).

So, if the ME2 squad returns, they will all be just as meaningless, or flavor squaddies if you will, as Grunt, Legion, or Morinth. And people will be pissed about that too.
Unless you want BioWare to make some of them key squaddies and have replacement characters for those who are dead that's the way it has to be. And how are they going to decide who comes back? Surely they won't bring back some of the love interests and not the others, and all those things like LI status and character resolution would have to be accounted for, which adds a LOT more variables than just "Is it dead? Y/N"

ME1 fight Saren, the Heretics & the Reapers ... "This story is just begining." Wrex
ME2 recruit a squad to fight the Collectors who are working for the Reapers. Of the 12, some might return IF you kept them alive during the SM. If they are dead then they will NOT be in YOUR ME3 squad, and if you killed off/did not recruit nor activate one (or more) someone, THAT may have dire consequences for your ME3 game.
Missions in ME3 ... forging alliances for the final (end of Shepadr's) story EPIC battle.
Rachani, Quarians, Geth, Krogan, Salarians, Turians, Asari, Council, Alliance, etc
ME3 teaser vid of Big Ben ... another bridge DLC? or part of ME3? "Who knows?" BW knows and they are NOT telling.

Modifié par JockBuster, 29 décembre 2010 - 02:11 .

[Phaedon]

Barquiel wrote...
dead/alive is more than enough...this is why Mac Walters weeps at night

Q: The big question we had is, "How do you write a story where all the characters from the first game, or a lot of them, could be dead when you start out the second game?"

A: You mean other than pulling out my hair and weeping at night, sort of, "Oh my god, how am I going to do this?" It takes a lot of planning, obviously, but essentially what we did is we looked at it and said, "Yeah we know that some of these guys are going to be dead. How do we account for that?" And the big thing was -- let's take Wrex for example -- we had to limit to some degree the roles that those characters are going to play because we have to say, "OK well they're coming back or they're not."

http://www.joystiq.c...-mass-effect-2/

But Wrex played an 'important' role in ME2, there is a possibility that he is the ruler of Tuchanka, so you have a full conversation with him, or with Wreav. The way I read this, Mac was like 'Damn, if we give Wrex a greater role, we will have to give Wreav too'. If Thane dies for example, in ME2, you don't have to worry about replacing Kolyat with him. But no, when it comes to the variable mechanism,there is no question about it, ME2 uses them as yes/no flags, so it's technically possible.

[Phaedon]

Wittand25 wrote...

Having all of them back as full squad-mates would be too expensive, because all the VO needed for optional and not easily accessible contend. It would also be harder to write for existing companions because they already have a backstory and a history with Sheppard that needs to be taken into account.

Wait, that's exactly what I am saying. Hiring new voice actors for new characters will not be less expensive, ME2's voice actors aren't that expensive.

And there are variables every one of them has at least three options dead/unrecruited; not loyal but alive; loyal and alive,several of them like Samara and the LIs have even more. Addressing all of them and having them all as fully developed companions would use up a lot of time and money while having less pay off as these forums would suggest. Do not forget that the average player cares far less about particular characters than the average Bioware community member.

How is that different than having Liara/VS as your LI? I really, can't see how adding a few extra conversation options can be considered as expensive.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

JockBuster wrote...
If you didn't write the story then how do you know who is/is not important? Tali in ME1, "I want to find a Geth working alone by itself (ie Legion)."
Grunt & Legion are "completely inconsequential," I think not, but we'll have to see what BW has in store for us in ME3. Old saw, "you made your bed now sleep in it." "Your decisions in ME1 & ME2 can/WILL have dire consequences in ME3" and "dead is DEAD" (CH).

I'm talking about ME2. Grunt and Legion are completely inconsequential to ME2, meaning that the story really doesn't change with their recruitment; you still go to the base and you can still succeed in accomplishing your mission. Grunt and Legion add nothing that is vital to the story of ME2.
And, going one step further, the fact that both Grunt and Legion can be dead at the end of ME2 is proof that they can not be vital to ME3's storyline.  BioWare isn't going to make it so that people who killed off these characters can not "win" in ME3.  The only chance of Legion or Grunt being vital is if they retcon the death of said character, which is a possibility with Legion, since it's just a faceless collection of robots.

ME1 fight Saren, the Heretics & the Reapers ... "This story is just begining." WrexME2 recruit a squad to fight the Collectors who are working for the Reapers. Of the 12, some might return IF you kept them alive during the SM. If they are dead then they will NOT be in YOUR ME3 squad, and if you killed off/did not recruit nor activate one (or more) someone, THAT may have dire consequences for your ME3 game.Missions in ME3 ... uniting allies for the final (end of Shepadr's) storyRachani, Quarians, Geth, Krogan, Salarians, Turians, Asari, Council, Alliance, etc
ME3 teaser vid of Big Ben ... another bridge DLC? or part of ME3? "Who knows?" BW knows and they are NOT telling.

ME3 will be another stand-alone game.  It will need to be completable by all players with any combination of choices from ME1 and ME2.  Those choices and their consequences will be B plot at best, and completely inconsequential to the A plot.

[Phaedon]

Wait, how do you decide how a character is vital or not. Ofcourse no character will be important enough that forces you to lose the game if he dies.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Phaedon wrote...
Wait, that's exactly what I am saying. Hiring new voice actors for new characters will not be less expensive, ME2's voice actors aren't that expensive.

I believe VA expense is calculated by number of lines.

Therefore having an entirely new squad (and new VA's for them), and having said squad be universal to everyone who plays the game is a lot more cost effective than having a crap-ton of completely optional dialogue lines for the hypothetical returning, possibly dead, squad of ME2.

The only way it would be the same level of cost efficiency (or better) is to have the squadmates in vastly reduced roles with much, much less dialogue, and methinks people won't want that.

[Phaedon]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
I believe VA expense is calculated by number of lines.

Therefore having an entirely new squad (and new VA's for them), and having said squad be universal to everyone who plays the game is a lot more cost effective than having a crap-ton of completely optional dialogue lines for the hypothetical returning, possibly dead, squad of ME2.

The only way it would be the same level of cost efficiency (or better) is to have the squadmates in vastly reduced roles with much, much less dialogue, and methinks people won't want that.

So, you are saying that in the end, it's better to have 10 new squadmates than 5-10 old squadmates. I think not. First of all, voice acting is much less expensive than other parts of the production, and therefore, by that logic, it would be better to have as less voice actors as possible. Do you know how many voice actors -most of them unnecessery- existed in ME2? Combine that with lack of fan service and it doesn't turn out to be a profit.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Phaedon wrote...
Wait, how do you decide how a character is vital or not. Ofcourse no character will be important enough that forces you to lose the game if he dies.

A vital character will play a vital role to the A plot. In ME1 Liara is absolutely essential to stopping Saren as she is the only one who can figure out where Ilos is.  As such, she can not die or be avoided, and from the looks of LotSB, she will continue to be essential (though that is an assumption, and her ME3 status is really irrelevant to the discussion anyways).
Since all of the ME2 squad is potentially dead, none of them can be vital to the plot of ME3 like Liara was in ME1.  Any vital plot point will need to be carried out by another NPC or aprty member, and making that NPC/party member role fulfillable by a dead character will make it a generic plot point fulfillable by nearly anyone.
From the perspective of cost and writing, it is easier to make the vital party members or NPC's new characters that are universal, or those that are guaranteed to be alive. Sure, some of the ME2 squaddies can return, but they'd be of lesser value to the A plot by default, and ME3 should be almost entirely about the A plot.  New squaddies just make more sense, and with that in mind how can you determine which of the ME2 squaddies to bring back?  The LI's would likely be an all or nothing deal, so it would seem that characters like Legion, Grunt, Mordin, Samara, or Thane (the pure B plotters) have the best chance of returning because there are fewer variables.

[cachx]

Christina Norman's reelevant tweets (All done in the last few days).

"I don't think it is a spoiler to say that fans who let their team die in me2 will feel the consequences in me3"

"Yes. RT @SirUlrichVL @truffle so I take it if I only have zaeed, kasumi and joker alive. That shep is in for a rough ride in ME3? :)"

"you don't need a "perfect" (no deaths) playthrough for me3"

Modifié par cachx, 29 décembre 2010 - 02:47 .

[Elite Midget]

Ummm... You're trying to make to sound like it's only either alive or ead. Which is false because even 'if' they're alive many say that they 'will' still leave you. Than there's the thing about all those E-mails we get that explain why they all will leave you if they don't die.

Of course all these 'variables' don't matter before the eyes of the fanboys that demand an unfair Squaddie Advantage in ME3 because they were the better babysitter than other Fans.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 29 décembre 2010 - 02:35 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Phaedon wrote...
So, you are saying that in the end, it's better to have 10 new squadmates than 5-10 old squadmates. I think not. First of all, voice acting is much less expensive than other parts of the production, and therefore, by that logic, it would be better to have as less voice actors as possible. Do you know how many voice actors -most of them unnecessery- existed in ME2? Combine that with lack of fan service and it doesn't turn out to be a profit.

When talking about DA:Awakening, David Gaider said that party members are some of the most resource-intensive features of these type of games.  He said this in response to why the old party (save Oghren) wasn't returning. So keep that in mind; it's more than just monetary cost.
I'm not saying anything about specific numbers. I'm assuming that ME3 will have the same number of potential squaddies regardless of whether or not it is an entirely new squad, an entirely a ME2/ME1 squad, or a mixture of the two.
I will start by saying the second option is really impossible.  That would mean someone could enter ME3 with only, what, 4 squaddies at most? Kasumi, Morinth, Liara, and Kaidan? I would love to see BioWare do that, but it just isn't likely. XD

Okay, so odds are it will either be a fully new squad or a hodgepodge of new and old.  If we are purely talking about cost then the most cost-effective way to write your dialogue is to reduce the non-essential lines (and the dead people of ME2 are, pure and simply, non-essential).  So say we have 8 squaddies, 3 of whom are essential to the A plot like Liara in ME1 or Mordin in ME2.  It would make the most sense to have these "essential" squaddies be new squaddies.  Otherwise they'd have to record the same "essential lines" for multiple, potentially dead, squaddies, AND they'd have to reduce that essential role to something generic that can be fulfilled by anyone.
It's do-able, but the problem arrives when you think about the other squad positions.  If we have 5 squad slots left, who do they go to? Again, the most resource-savvy option is to make a new character for those spots that everyone who plays ME3, regardless of their history with ME1 or ME2, has the same access to.  Yes, some of them can, and maybe will, be filled by returning characters, but think of the dialogue and other resources.

If they all have character-specific dialogue trees (which I'm asusming everyone wants), then you're tacking on a lot more lines, all of which are completely optional.  How many lines does the average party member have? A lot more than cameos, that's for sure, and that's ignoring the other resources involved in making them fully-functional combat members (Christina Norman said making Liara playable for LotSB was a pain).

So, financially (both monetary and human resources) it would be better to have a static ME3 squad that's potentially the same for everyone, and spend less money and resources on the non-essential ME2 crowd by giving them cameos.  Because with a cameo BioWare can still say they are giving the characters "importance" and satisfy some of their fans (nobody ever loves something universally) and not have to spend a ton of resources on 12+ optional squadmembers.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 29 décembre 2010 - 02:44 .

[MajesticJazz]

In terms of keeping things fresh, Bioware will create an entirely new squad for ME3. From ME1, the Virmire Survivor has a high chance of being a ME3 squadmate. As for ME2 squadmates, I really could careless. To me, the only one I connected with was Mordin and Legion. The rest just seem like they were written for the second game with no real "arc" for the future like ME1 team had.



And again, I rather have a new slew of squadmates for a new experience and to scope out new and potential love interest.

[hawat333]

On the other hand, you don't take it into calculation that it makes desingning the new game a pain in the butt.

Not because of the variables, but because... For example if you plan a big battle which involves all the squadmembers (in a similar sense like the SM)- the plan can be foiled by a Shepard who has only two members alive.



That was just an example but I think you get what I mean. I could list several more where it does matter how many people you have alive/imported.

[hong]

None of the squadmembers in ME2 are "essential" except for Mordin. I fail to see what the point is of this "essentialness" argument. They could easily reuse everybody from ME2, and have one or two new party members to fill the "essential" spots.

[Elite Midget]

Yet it would be a pain to compensate every single variable and scenerio for every story event that takes place. It would end up being a needlesssly stressful thing since they can just avoid all that drama by making a new Squad that doesn't need to have to be considered by all the variables from the last games.

[cachx]

What is a squadmate? A miserable little pile of secrets dialogue!

+3 or 4 one-on-one dialogues on the normandy (more if you're a LI).
+2 or 3 lines per mission.
+Extra lines under specific circumstances.
+other 2 or 3 lines for squad banter (or in the case of ME2, "ambient triggered dialogue").

Is kinda obvious that returning characters won't have a big impact on the main storyline, but they'll get a moment to shine. For example, Tali might get extra lines when dealing with the Migrant Fleet, Legion with the geth (if they're even in the game if you don't get Legion alive), Miranda with the Illusive Man, Garrus with C-Sec, Grunt on Tuchanka, etc...

[Big stupid jellyfish]

Just my two cents:



The statistics revealed lately, though questionable, states that only 14% of squadmates die during the mission on average. So 86% of squadmates are alive on average. That's not even 50/50 (either recruited or not, either dead or alive). It should basically mean there's a 86% chance that a squaddie is alive in an imported game and the player would get his or her content.



...That or I didn't get what the mysterious phrase '14% die in the end-game, on average' means.



As for variables like "was loyal in ME2/was not loyal"... In ME1 we were able to shape Garrus in some way. Was it reflected in ME2? Yes -- in a couple of dialogue lines.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

It really doesn't matter what percentage of squadmates die on average unless BioWare is planning to retcon some peoples' games (which would be a horrible thing to do in a game series they've said was about our choices and their consequences shaping the world).



So BioWare is going to have to entertain my only Morinth and Kasumi playthrough. And making me play through ME3 with only 2 squaddies is not going to be feasible unless squaddies in general are drastically reduced in dialogue and overall worth.

[Phaedon]

Elite Midget wrote...

Ummm... You're trying to make to sound like it's only either alive or ead. Which is false because even 'if' they're alive many say that they 'will' still leave you. Than there's the thing about all those E-mails we get that explain why they all will leave you if they don't die.

Of course all these 'variables' don't matter before the eyes of the fanboys that demand an unfair Squaddie Advantage in ME3 because they were the better babysitter than other Fans.

OK, I don't want to repeat this again, but I'll be saying this for the last time:

Variables sound cool to use, but they are nothing at all, just flags, some times they are equal to a number and some times to true or false. The main variable would be the one that checks if a character is dead or alive. If this variable is true or false, then it would be the 'switch' to several actions. It would be very easy for Bioware to turn a variable off, and suddenly 50 e-mails would be sent. But that's the point. It is technically possible for Bioware to turn the Garrus survival variable off. That would result in him not being around, an e-mail, and changing the reaction of some random batarian that you meet in Omega. Bioware can turn the LI variable on, and if the survival variable is on as well, then some actions would be done etc. The rest is like not activating Legion, so don't say that it's not technically possible, because it is.

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
When talking about DA:Awakening, David Gaider said that party members are some of the most resource-intensive features of these type of games.  He said this in response to why the old party (save Oghren) wasn't returning. So keep that in mind; it's more than just monetary cost.
I'm not saying anything about specific numbers. I'm assuming that ME3 will have the same number of potential squaddies regardless of whether or not it is an entirely new squad, an entirely a ME2/ME1 squad, or a mixture of the two.
I will start by saying the second option is really impossible.  That would mean someone could enter ME3 with only, what, 4 squaddies at most? Kasumi, Morinth, Liara, and Kaidan? I would love to see BioWare do that, but it just isn't likely. XD

How is it not? You have to try to kill almost all of your squaddies, and you still get, as you said yourself, 4+ squadmates.

Okay, so odds are it will either be a fully new squad or a hodgepodge of new and old.  If we are purely talking about cost then the most cost-effective way to write your dialogue is to reduce the non-essential lines (and the dead people of ME2 are, pure and simply, non-essential).  So say we have 8 squaddies, 3 of whom are essential to the A plot like Liara in ME1 or Mordin in ME2.  It would make the most sense to have these "essential" squaddies be new squaddies.  Otherwise they'd have to record the same "essential lines" for multiple, potentially dead, squaddies, AND they'd have to reduce that essential role to something generic that can be fulfilled by anyone.

Wait, let's say that in ME1 you decide to bring Wrex and Kaidan with you when you speak to Sovereign instead of Liara and Ashley, they'll drop the essential line as well, it's not something that hasn't be done before.

It's do-able, but the problem arrives when you think about the other squad positions.  If we have 5 squad slots left, who do they go to? Again, the most resource-savvy option is to make a new character for those spots that everyone who plays ME3, regardless of their history with ME1 or ME2, has the same access to.  Yes, some of them can, and maybe will, be filled by returning characters, but think of the dialogue and other resources.

If they all have character-specific dialogue trees (which I'm asusming everyone wants), then you're tacking on a lot more lines, all of which are completely optional.  How many lines does the average party member have? A lot more than cameos, that's for sure, and that's ignoring the other resources involved in making them fully-functional combat members (Christina Norman said making Liara playable for LotSB was a pain)

So, financially (both monetary and human resources) it would be better to have a static ME3 squad that's potentially the same for everyone, and spend less money and resources on the non-essential ME2 crowd by giving them cameos.  Because with a cameo BioWare can still say they are giving the characters "importance" and satisfy some of their fans (nobody ever loves something universally) and not have to spend a ton of resources on 12+ optional squadmembers.

But again, a few lines not being used doesn't mean anything, why do you base it on that? Do you seriously expect Bioware to say 'Look, it's possible that Mordin can die, so his lines are optional. You know what, just skip the whole character.' Again, it's not resource savvy to use new voice actors, none of which the fans will recognize.

Modifié par Phaedon, 29 décembre 2010 - 03:21 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Phaedon wrote...
How is it not? You have to try to kill almost all of your squaddies, and you still get, as you said yourself, 4+ squadmates.

People keep saying this... It doesn't make sense.  If you're a casual gamer you're probably not going to play all the sidequests (including loyalty missions), and you may well not find all the Normandy upgrades. In order to save everyone you almost have to actively be trying to complete the game at 100%.
Even those who only lose 1 or 2 squadmembers are almost the same situation as those who actively got 10 people killed.  Because those 2 squadmates could have been anyone. BioWare has to account for every permutation and combination of surviving members, and that's a lot of work.  If they were to make them squaddies then that's a lot of hard work and resources potentially wasted.
And BioWare has never wasted resources on that scale.  Look at Morinth. She's a joke; she may as well not exist at all.  And if BioWare were to make all the killable squaddies into ME3 squaddies then I would be inclined to think they'd all end up like Morinth in the amount of content they actually have (which is pathetic).

Wait, let's say that in ME1 you decide to bring Wrex and Kaidan with you when you speak to Sovereign instead of Liara and Ashley, they'll drop the essential line as well, it's not something that hasn't be done before.

No, by essential I was referring to lines similar to Liara's talks about Ilos or the vision on the Normandy.  Yes, when you're on a mission then certain lines are sayable by any of your squaddies, but those are usually only one or two sentences, whereas Liara explaining the vision and finding the conduit is more involved, especially since her knowledge of it is actually a character trait.
Those throwaway lines from your party are never that involved.

But again, a few lines not being used doesn't mean anything, why do you base it on that? Do you seriously expect Bioware to say 'Look, it's possible that Mordin can die, so his lines are optional. You know what, just skip the whole character.' Again, it's not resource savvy to use new voice actors, none of which the fans will recognize.

I'm basing this on the idea of them being squadmates. That means 3-4 conversations on the Normandy each plus added mission lines, plus potential romance lines, plus character development (personal mission) lines.  And then add on top of that the resources involved in making them combat-ready, trying to give them and Shepard skills that will allow for a balanced party, and trying to give them a role that feels like more than pure fan service (which BioWare came pretty close to failing already with Garrus and Tali in ME2 <-personal opinion), and it's much, much easier and more efficient to make a new party and give the ME2 squad Wrex cameos.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 29 décembre 2010 - 03:35 .

[Phaedon]

People keep saying this... It doesn't make sense. If you're a casual gamer you're probably not going to play all the sidequests (including loyalty missions), and you may well not find all the Normandy upgrades. In order to save everyone you almost have to actively be trying to complete the game at 100%.

Even those who only lose 1 or 2 squadmembers are almost the same situation as those who actively got 10 people killed. Because those 2 squadmates could have been anyone. BioWare has to account for every permutation and combination of surviving members, and that's a lot of work. If they were to make them squaddies then that's a lot of hard work and resources potentially wasted.

And BioWare has never wasted resources on that scale. Look at Morinth. She's a joke; she may as well not exist at all. And if BioWare were to make all the killable squaddies into ME3 squaddies then I would be inclined to think they'd all end up like Morinth in the amount of content they actually have (which is pathetic).

I am not saying that you have to save everyone, but having everyone but 2 squaddies killed requires effort.

No, by essential I was referring to lines similar to Liara's talks about Ilos or the vision on the Normandy. Yes, when you're on a mission then certain lines are sayable by any of your squaddies, but those are usually only one or two sentences, whereas Liara explaining the vision and finding the conduit is more involved, especially since her knowledge of it is actually a character trait.

Those throwaway lines from your party are never that involved.

But who says that there will be essential dialogue?

I'm basing this on the idea of them being squadmates. That means 3-4 conversations on the Normandy each plus added mission lines, plus potential romance lines, plus character development (personal mission) lines. And then add on top of that the resources involved in making them combat-ready, trying to give them and Shepard skills that will allow for a balanced party, and trying to give them a role that feels like more than pure fan service (which BioWare came pretty close to failing already with Garrus and Tali in ME2 <-personal opinion), and it's much, much easier and more efficient to make a new party and give the ME2 squad Wrex cameos.

But that doesn't cost that much, and makes no sense story-wise. At least we agree that it's possible.

[Elite Midget]

So basically...



You want Bioware to retcon out everything that isn't 'Alive' or 'Dead'? Cuz that's exactly what it sounds like you're saying. If that's the case I doubt Bioware will retcon anything to appease the vocal crowd especially since they will have a much grander time with new Squaddies instead of compensateing those that can't lead the dead rest in peace.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Phaedon wrote...
I am not saying that you have to save everyone, but having everyone but 2 squaddies killed requires effort.

And all I'm saying is that BioWare will have to put about the same effort in to accomodate those who killed 2 as they would for those who killed 10.
Because anyone can die in ME2. They still have to program and create the possibilities for someone having ten deaths unless they flat-out retcon certain character deaths.

But who says that there will be essential dialogue?

There has to be essential dialogue or there is no story.  The issue is whether or not said dialogue is given to ME2 people.  And logically it wouldn't be wise to have the plot hinging on any character that may be dead.  All I'm really saying is that it makes the ME2 squaddies much les useful in accomplishing the task of telling ME3's story. The ME2 goons can not be the keepers of any vital lore and ahve to specifically be written as extras (which is a lot of work when they're squaddies and not just cameos).

But that doesn't cost that much, and makes no sense story-wise. At least we agree that it's possible.

I will add, though, that I will be completely blown away and shocked if BioWare brings back even a quarter of the ME2 squad as actual squaddies.  Honestly I expect only one, and I think Legion has the flat-out best chance of that, since it's just a robotic platform comprised of and controlled by thousands other robot AI.