927 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Flamewielder wrote...

A more important consideration is the desire expressed by the community to have more squaddie-squaddie interactions/dialogue. If this is important to you, you cannot expect ME2 squaddies to come back as "full" squaddies (i.e. squaddies that will follow Shep throughout ME3) because of mathematically exploding dialogue trees.

Ah... That good old thread... with the poll...

[waxing nostalgic]

93% to 7% unexpected I never thought it would be quite so overwhelminly one sided.

[Femlob]

I'd like to start by awarding AdmiralCheez a well-deserved internets, for making me laugh on more than one occasion. Take a bow, good sir; you've earned it.

The optimist in me hopes for wild things; the realist (or pessimist, if you will) in me says that none of those purported "over 1,000 variables" is going to affect ME3 in any significant way for one simple reason: there has to be an acceptable ending to the story. I don't think the total obliteration of all living beings in the galaxy is acceptable for any but the most twisted minds on this planet.

The stage has been set for Shepard to beat, or assist in beating, the Reapers; and unless BioWare has a quad hitherto not seen in the gaming world, there is no way the ending is going to be anything but the total destruction of everything Reaper. And I don't think they have that quad, since you can't fail the Suicide Mission even if you die.

It seems reasonable enough to assume that some or even all party members from ME2 will return in ME3, in whatever capacity; just don't expect their return to cause any ripples in the waters. Anything based on mortal party members in ME2 could have game-breaking implications in ME3, which is not something I see happening any time soon. Sure, there will be consequences to your actions in ME1 and ME2 - but not of the kind that renders ME3 unplayable.

[nevar00]

It's completely possible to pull off having most of the squadmates return... it would just be a lot of work and some people may complain about missing out on the content... so I don't really think Bioware has the balls to try it.



At the very least I expect Garrus and Tali to return as squadmates again. Otherwise I see this forum imploding.

[CroGamer002]

SmokePants wrote...

I think a common misconception is that nerds are actually smart.

You guys realize that in the unlikely event that anyone comes back, they will be "reset", don't you? They will not pick up where you left off with them. They will behave the same way, regardless of whether you gained or lost their loyalty. And of course, romances have no place in the beginning of these games. They have to be worked toward or else they serve no purpose. So, yeah, don't expect to be able to stick your tongue down anyone's throat from Go.

By asking for these characters to return, you are asking to be pissed off. They will not be as you remember them and they will not behave as you think they should. See: Oghren in Awakening. See: Kashlen on Horizon. See: Liara in her office.

Did you played LotSB?

Also how about something to support your claim?
Also Oghren is poor example since DA:O originally wasn't planned to be importable and Awakening started to be made later, unlike any other DLC from Mass Effect 1&2.

For Ashley and Kaidan is still not over since of possible VS DLC and if not something will happen to VS in ME3. We had it with Liara in LotSB, why not with them too?

And Bioware to ignore ME2 LI is just outright terrible decision.
Both fans and reviewers will pick up hard on that.
What's the point of having import feature if actions you made will be ignored?

[Femlob]

Mesina2 wrote...

Did you played LotSB?

Also how about something to support your claim?
Also Oghren is poor example since DA:O originally wasn't planned to be importable and Awakening started to be made later, unlike any other DLC from Mass Effect 1&2.

For Ashley and Kaidan is still not over since of possible VS DLC and if not something will happen to VS in ME3. We had it with Liara in LotSB, why not with them too?

And Bioware to ignore ME2 LI is just outright terrible decision.
Both fans and reviewers will pick up hard on that.
What's the point of having import feature if actions you made will be ignored?

Hint: people who haven't played ME1, ME2 and any of the DLCs matter, too.

Modifié par Femlob, 17 février 2011 - 05:38 .

[nevar00]

Which is why having the option to start with all of the squadmates alive (or two options, each with a few different ones dead) would easily solve that problem, and make it so no content would be missed. I don't see it happening, but I wish... it's time Bioware actually starts cashing in on these "CONSEQUENCES" they keep raving about. Emails and an extra line of dialogue just aren't cutting it.

Modifié par nevar00, 17 février 2011 - 05:44 .

[Femlob]

nevar00 wrote...

Which is why having the option to start with all of the squadmates alive (or two options, each with a few different ones dead) would easily solve that problem, and make it so no content would be missed. I don't see it happening, but I wish... it's time Bioware actually starts cashing in on these "CONSEQUENCES" they keep raving about. Emails and an extra line of dialogue just aren't cutting it.

They are consequences, so they're technically living up to their part of the deal.

I'll give BioWare the benefit of the doubt, given their history of excellence (one needs to screw up big-time before I start hating on the company that delivered Baldur's Gate), but they have a massive hype to live up to.

[ZeroDotZero]

SmokePants wrote...

By asking for these characters to return, you are asking to be pissed off. They will not be as you remember them and they will not behave as you think they should. See: Oghren in Awakening. See: Kashlen on Horizon. See: Liara in her office.

Oghren was fine in Awakening. His lines were funnier than I remember them being in Origins. The only loose end is if you killed him in Origins, but doing so just results in getting a couple of entertaining pieces of dialogue about how he survived.

They can do squaddie imports fine, by Awakening's example.

[CroGamer002]

Femlob wrote...

Hint: people who haven't played ME1, ME2 and any of the DLCs matter, too.

Simple, those who pick up ME3 and don't import ME2 save will just have to deal with any default choices that Bioware puts( like with ME2) while saves without ME2 DLCs will have default choices and since LotSB didn't had any choice( hostage situation isn't much important) you'll just have it( like with ME1's Bring Down the Sky DLC).

[Femlob]

Mesina2 wrote...

Femlob wrote...

Hint: people who haven't played ME1, ME2 and any of the DLCs matter, too.

Simple, those who pick up ME3 and don't import ME2 save will just have to deal with any default choices that Bioware puts( like with ME2) while saves without ME2 DLCs will have default choices and since LotSB didn't had any choice( hostage situation isn't much important) you'll just have it( like with ME1's Bring Down the Sky DLC).

Fresh players will "just have to deal with" it?

I've never seen the inside of a developer studio in my life, but I'm willing to wager my right arm that alienating a majority of potential customers by saying they'll "just have to deal" with not having played the previous two installments (regardless of whether or not said installments are actually available to them) isn't the most effective strategy to pursue.

[CroGamer002]

Femlob wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Femlob wrote...

Hint: people who haven't played ME1, ME2 and any of the DLCs matter, too.

Simple, those who pick up ME3 and don't import ME2 save will just have to deal with any default choices that Bioware puts( like with ME2) while saves without ME2 DLCs will have default choices and since LotSB didn't had any choice( hostage situation isn't much important) you'll just have it( like with ME1's Bring Down the Sky DLC).

Fresh players will "just have to deal with" it?

I've never seen the inside of a developer studio in my life, but I'm willing to wager my right arm that alienating a majority of potential customers by saying they'll "just have to deal" with not having played the previous two installments (regardless of whether or not said installments are actually available to them) isn't the most effective strategy to pursue.

You do know majority of costumers wll be one who played ME2?


Also they won't be alienated, just they will have to deal with default choices just like anyone who played ME2 without ME1 import( Rachni dead, Wrex dead, Council dead, most of characters in ME1 dead, Udina councilor...) who were little more then half of Mass Effect 2 costumers and didn't cared until they played ME1 after ME2.

[Dean_the_Young]

Potential customers are a dime a hundred thousand, anyone with money.



Likely customers are a much rarer breed, and most of them can reasonably be expected to invest in the beginning of a trilogy.



People who don't know, are also precisely the same people who don't know what they're missing. They're also the people you want to entice into buying the previous games in order to achieve all content. The pokemon franchise has been pulling that trick for ages.

[Femlob]

Mesina2 wrote...

You do know majority of costumers wll be one who played ME2?

Do you have a valid source to back this up? If not, I'll be forced to assume that you're pulling facts out of your ass.

[CroGamer002]

Femlob wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

You do know majority of costumers wll be one who played ME2?

Do you have a valid source to back this up? If not, I'll be forced to assume that you're pulling facts out of your ass.

Geez, I don't know maybe because ME2 got over 150 GOTY reward and might have got attention of many costumers to buy ME2 before ME3.

Also ME2 sold over 2 millions( which is twice as much then ME1) on XBox 360( in first week it sold almost as ME1 in 2 years), over 200 000 on PS3 and it is assumed PC sales are better then XBox 360, at least in pre-orders.

I highly doubt ME3 will be sold a lot more then ME2.

[Wittand25]

Mesina2 wrote...
Also they won't be alienated, just they will have to deal with default choices just like anyone who played ME2 without ME1 import( Rachni dead, Wrex dead, Council dead, most of characters in ME1 dead, Udina councilor...) who were little more then half of Mass Effect 2 costumers and didn't cared until they played ME1 after ME2.

Nobody was alienated because those things do not affect game-play. Playing Me2 without an import did y player not feel like they missed out on something and that they got a whole game. Someone new to the series might actually get interested in the previous games because they liked the game.

On the other hand if the default choices affect game-play or limit access to game significant content like you know squad members. the feeling of a new customer or returning players without a safegame to import would not be: "Awesome game lets purchase it´s predecessor ". It would be more along the lines of  "What a rip off they expect me to get another game and play it for hours just to get all out of this game, ****  them" . And that is not a good way to start a customer-developer relationship, if you plan on selling other games or DLC.

Also the 150 GOTY awards you mention are wrong. The author of that thread seems to miss the point that Game of the Year is usually an award category and counts every reward, even stuff like best character or best soundtrack as game of the year award. ME2 did get many GOTY awards but nowhere near 150 ( I am not even sure that there are that many GOTY awards handed out in a single year).
Anyway the quality of ME2 is not the question here, the quality of ME3 is what is important and it would suffer if the squad returns for various reasons that I and others have pointed out here and I cannot believe that fans of the franchise would want that.

Modifié par Wittand25, 17 février 2011 - 07:22 .

[nevar00]

...hence offer a selection of starting classes each with a different selection of squadmates having survived, if not one with them all.

[Wittand25]

nevar00 wrote...

...hence offer a selection of starting classes each with a different selection of squadmates having survived, if not one with them all.

This does not address all the problems, like balancing the power sets so that all valid imports are playable ( not necessarily with the same difficulty but playable). Creating a lot of content for the returning NPCs without breaking the game if the NPC in question is dead. Spreading available resources even farther amongst the more squad-members (because new ones are inevitable even if the whole team would return) than in ME2 and imo ME2 already suffered from a too big cast. Writing all the NPCs in a way that players who do not know them or have forgotten about them as well as fans who in anticipation of ME3 replay ME2 the week before release can connect with the NPC without neither confusing the first two or boring the third. Addressing that several of the NPCs exist in various forms unloyal/loyal/romanced/replaced by their soulsucking daughter ... .

[nevar00]

You are right, the powers would not be balanced if you, say, killed off all your biotics in ME 2: hence, a CONSEQUENCE of your actions. Obviously there will be a few new people to recruit so it wouldn't be a huge impact but until then you would find yourself at a slight disadvantage due to decisions you made in the second game. The "too big of a cast" thing I can understand but could be worked around, it isn't as if all need to be thrown at you at once. If Bioware wanted to put the effort into bringing all the squadmates back and not overwhelming the player I have full confidence that they would be able to pull it off. ...I just don't think they would.

Modifié par nevar00, 17 février 2011 - 07:45 .

[AkiKishi]

nevar00 wrote...

You are right, the powers would not be balanced if you, say, killed off all your biotics in ME 2: hence, a CONSEQUENCE of your actions. Obviously there will be a few new people to recruit so it wouldn't be a huge impact but until then you would find yourself at a slight disadvantage due to decisions you made in the second game. The "too big of a cast" thing I can understand but could be worked around, it isn't as if all need to be thrown at you at once. If Bioware wanted to put the effort into bringing all the squadmates back and not overwhelming the player I have full confidence that they would be able to pull it off. ...I just don't think they would.

If you never played ME2 how would it be a consequence of your actions ?
I have zero confidence Bioware can pull it off. I may change my mind after playing DAII, or not.

What we do know is that Bioware can make entertaining and interesting squad members from scratch(ME2). That's why I'd rather they did it again in ME3.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 17 février 2011 - 07:55 .

[nevar00]

It wouldn't be, but you wouldn't be potentially importing a file with all of one class dead if you didn't play ME 2 so I don't see your point.

Modifié par nevar00, 17 février 2011 - 07:55 .

[CroGamer002]

Wittand25 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
Also they won't be alienated, just they will have to deal with default choices just like anyone who played ME2 without ME1 import( Rachni dead, Wrex dead, Council dead, most of characters in ME1 dead, Udina councilor...) who were little more then half of Mass Effect 2 costumers and didn't cared until they played ME1 after ME2.

Nobody was alienated because those things do not affect game-play. Playing Me2 without an import did y player not feel like they missed out on something and that they got a whole game. Someone new to the series might actually get interested in the previous games because they liked the game.

On the other hand if the default choices affect game-play or limit access to game significant content like you know squad members. the feeling of a new customer or returning players without a safegame to import would not be: "Awesome game lets purchase it´s predecessor ". It would be more along the lines of  "What a rip off they expect me to get another game and play it for hours just to get all out of this game, ****  them" . And that is not a good way to start a customer-developer relationship, if you plan on selling other games or DLC.

Also the 150 GOTY awards you mention are wrong. The author of that thread seems to miss the point that Game of the Year is usually an award category and counts every reward, even stuff like best character or best soundtrack as game of the year award. ME2 did get many GOTY awards but nowhere near 150 ( I am not even sure that there are that many GOTY awards handed out in a single year).
Anyway the quality of ME2 is not the question here, the quality of ME3 is what is important and it would suffer if the squad returns for various reasons that I and others have pointed out here and I cannot believe that fans of the franchise would want that.

Then having import feature is a waste if decisions in next game won't matter.
Also why punish people who already had former 2 games just because some people didn't bother to play first 2?
Didn't play Mass Effect 2? Why would you care about missing characters if you never got introduced to them properly?




Also for over 150 GOTY rewards.



Oh and BTW if some guy who spend only 60$ on just last game thinks he got cheated over people who spend from 80-120$ on 2 games and people who also spend also even more on just mission DLC's( 24$) can kiss my ass!

Modifié par Mesina2, 17 février 2011 - 08:12 .

[AkiKishi]

nevar00 wrote...

It wouldn't be, but you wouldn't be potentially importing a file with all of one class dead if you didn't play ME 2 so I don't see your point.

We don't know what you would be importing, that's the point. We have no way of knowing what default would be like. Default with all 12 alive, certainly possible.

I'd rather see an ME3 comic so new people can get some background and make some choices of their own.

[nevar00]

Well that would work too. My point is that for those who are just starting a file in ME3, there are different options to take to make sure they don't miss out on any content. They don't need to reduce all the ME 2 squadmates to minor roles just for those who are starting a file in the third game. They have options, and if they took the time and effort it is possible to have all or most of all of the squad mates return to your squad again and still have an engaging plot and characters. I just don't see them doing it, as much as I would like them to... when I definitely became afraid (albeit excited) when I heard of the holiday 2011 release...

And although I'm sure they could come up with an entirely new and awesome cast of characters for the squad, I and many others would rather they keep the characters we have grown to love and focus mainly on the central plot, with maybe a few new faces thrown in there.

Modifié par nevar00, 17 février 2011 - 08:10 .

[AkiKishi]

nevar00 wrote...

Well that would work too. My point is that for those who are just starting a file in ME3, there are different options to take to make sure they don't miss out on any content. They don't need to reduce all the ME 2 squadmates to minor roles just for those who are starting a file in the third game. They have options, and if they took the time and effort it is possible to have all or most of all of the squad mates return to your squad again and still have an engaging plot and characters. I just don't see them doing it, as much as I would like them to... when I definitely became afraid (albeit excited) when I heard of the holiday 2011 release...

And although I'm sure they could come up with an entirely new and awesome cast of characters for the squad, I and many others would rather they keep the characters we have grown to love and focus mainly on the central plot, with maybe a few new faces thrown in there.

I like the ME2 cast but I'd only want them back if I was sure it was done right and seeing what I saw in ME2 I don't think they could pull it off with 12 characters.

[Wittand25]

Mesina2 wrote...
Then having import feature is a waste if decisions in next game won't matter.
Also why punish people who already had former 2 games just because some people didn't bother to play first 2?
Didn't play Mass Effect 2? Why would you care about missing characters if you never got introduced to them properly?
Also for over 150 GOTY rewards.

Do you read anything I and others write ? Or the thread you linked ?

I and others addressed what you wrote several times now. The difference between rewarding old players (good) to punishing new players (bad) was pointed out several times now. The fact that the survival of the ME2 crew-members is more important if they leave, because only non-party members (e.g. Liara and Wrex in ME2;Tali and Garrus between ME1 and ME2) can do important things since the actions of squad-members are limited by the player has also come up. Yet you still write the same questions every time even though they have been answered again and again.

And thanks for linking the awards thread because it proves what I wrote before and I was to lazy to link it myself.