927 réponses à ce sujet

[Uszi]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Squad with no reason to leave :
Miranda,Jacob,Legion,Tali and Garrus

Thats it i'm happy.

Legion *needs* to leave at some point to reintegrate with his geth network.  And as much as we might love him, I wouldn't say he develops such a strong emotional connection with shephard that he decides to isolate himself from the rest of the geth -- He says multiple times how awesome he thinks sharing all of your thoughts and stuff is.

Tali could be written out, imho, but Bioware wouldn't do that because they understand that Talimancers would revolt.

The rest I agree with.  Jacob, Miranda and Garrus literally have no where else to go.

[Volband]

Now why should Tali be written out? I understand that the Talimancerism (omg:d) annoys the hell out of the people, but you shouldn't let it blind you that much to say things like that. (Or if you simply hate a character, that doesn't mean he/she is utterly useless...)

Especially because it's quite obvious how she can be an important asset in dealing with the Migrant Fleet.

Modifié par Volband, 30 décembre 2010 - 12:29 .

[habitat 67]

Volband I like and agree with everything you just said.

[SojournerN7]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Squad with no reason to leave :
Miranda,Jacob,Legion,Tali and Garrus

Thats it i'm happy.

I generally agree. I would substitute Legion for the Virmire Survivor however, save that your last conversation with them was generally positive. Everyone else either has other things to do or has died.

[commanderdad10]

After reading most of these post, I find most of you think that the minimum number of squad members that can survive the game with is 2. This is in fact incorrect. I played the game once specifically trying to get Shepard and every squad mate (including Zaeed, Kasumi, Grunt, & Legion) killed. Well, I didn't quite make it. I hadn't counted on the endurance and resourcefulness of a certain bounty hunter and I ended the game with just me and and Zaeed. One surviving squad member.

Modifié par commanderdad10, 30 décembre 2010 - 12:34 .

[GodWood]

All I need:

Jack, Garrus, Mordin, Grunt and Zaeed.



Any one else is free to go.

[habitat 67]

Uszi wrote...

Legion *needs* to leave at some point to reintegrate with his geth network.  And as much as we might love him, I wouldn't say he develops such a strong emotional connection with shephard that he decides to isolate himself from the rest of the geth -- He says multiple times how awesome he thinks sharing all of your thoughts and stuff is.

Hmm, I think Legion had a little crush on Shep with the whole armor thing and he communicates wit the Geth network just fine while onboard the ship. Plus, I consider him to still be in the process of evaluating Quarians through Tali on a first hand basis which is a huge Geth deal.

[lovgreno]

Mr.House wrote...

Everyone look at Wrex.



See him? What happen to him in ME2? Oh ya he was given a cameo and a interchangeable character so he can still be important to the overall plot, the point is this tho, he could die and did not come back. That's one character, you really expect Bioware to bring back 10 plus 2 dlc characters back?

The cameo treatment they gave the VS and Wrex gave BioWare a lot of bad press so it would make sense that they would try to avoid doing the same misstake again. Especialy as it's rather easily done with one alive/dead flag for the save from ME2 and simply refreshing a old proven very popular character. Making new characters from scratch that may become the new Jacob (I personaly think he is okay though and would welcome Jacobs return in ME3)means more job with less marketing potential and the risk of failing with the fans.

[ReiSilver]

actually... I think NPCing 10 squad mates would be a lot more work then actually having them sitting on the ship being squad mates. Think about it; we get three individual areas where we meet Liara, Wrex and the VS, all three had certain important things they were doing, if Wrex isn't there his role as NPC is so important they need a new character to fill his spot. By contrast squad mates don't affect the larger game much at all, they make comments on things but these comments have had zero impact on the game. For example Garrus and Tali being there when you meet Kaidan/Ashley; they make a comment, the VS recognises them but it doesn't change how the scene plays out. When a squadie makes a comment to the player that comment is interchangeable with every other squad mate. It seems like far less work to keep the ME2 squadies on the ship rather then create entire scenes for them to be NPCs and spending the time trying to think what they're doing or what will happen if they're dead. Add to that you're bringing in voice actors either way, just in the case of NPC you're paying them to be there for a short time and then bringing in ALL NEW voice actors that you also have to pay that are doing the same amount of work that the voice actors for the ME2 squad would be doing, or even more since new characters need introductions. As opposed to the old voice actors doing a lot more work but not having to hire new guys for the 'new squad' and news guys to fill the ME2 squad's npc slots

[Gojiroth]

Mr.House wrote...

Everyone look at Wrex.



See him? What happen to him in ME2? Oh ya he was given a cameo and a interchangeable character so he can still be important to the overall plot, the point is this tho, he could die and did not come back. That's one character, you really expect Bioware to bring back 10 plus 2 dlc characters back?

The Devs said (someone else on this thread may be able to give a link) that the reason that ME1 characters had such a small role was because they wanted to make sure that all of the characters that survived (including Wrex, even though he could have died) ME1 survived to ME3 to fulfill the roles meant to be given unto them in the end. I don't think it's a matter of resources at all. But yes, I do agree that it was a little frustrating for the characters to be cut out

[kill_switch_423]

So, the "Nay" argument is that having content that exists in the game being held back from players who had their team die means that said content is wasted. I have to add my disagreement to this idea.... It's not wasted because most players are getting the majority of it. I'd like to see some reward for playing through ME1/2 with "Perfect" endings in ME3. If my ME3 experience is the same as someone who barely survived the SM, then I'd feel as if who died at the end of ME2 didn't matter, and that those who half-assed ME2 suffer no consequence for letting people under their command die while I simultaneously get no "reward."



ME3 should be the game wherein we see the consequences of our actions throughout the series.

[Ulzeraj]

The real question is "why?". "Why the sequel has to be handicaped because of some freako managed to get all but 2 random dlc mercenary coadjuvants killed?"

[Googlesaurus]

Uszi wrote...

Legion *needs* to leave at some point to reintegrate with his geth network.  And as much as we might love him, I wouldn't say he develops such a strong emotional connection with shephard that he decides to isolate himself from the rest of the geth -- He says multiple times how awesome he thinks sharing all of your thoughts and stuff is.

Legion was made so he doesn't have to return to the network. 

[Cyberfrog81]

commanderdad10 wrote...

After reading most of these post, I find most of you think that the minimum number of squad members that can survive the game with is 2. This is in fact incorrect. I played the game once specifically trying to get Shepard and every squad mate (including Zaeed, Kasumi, Grunt, & Legion) killed. Well, I didn't quite make it. I hadn't counted on the endurance and resourcefulness of a certain bounty hunter and I ended the game with just me and and Zaeed. One surviving squad member.

Screenshot or it didn't happen.

[-D-C-D-]

I'm sorry, and I know this is going to sound incredibly ignorant, but I seriously hope that the game does become a lot harder to play for people who got their squad depleted as much as possible. People who physically work to screw up their playthrough as much as possible should not be accommodated for by Bioware. It's completely unfair on people who tried hard to get into ME3 with as perfect a profile as possible(including playing through ME1). I personally want Bioware working as hard as possible and putting maximum effort into rewarding people who tried to play positively and constructively rather than waste resources on those who ruined their playthroughs just to be able to continue to fly this ridiculous "everyone's game is different" banner.



There is a point where the line has to be drawn, and I think that's it.

[kill_switch_423]

-D-C-D- wrote...

I personally want Bioware working as hard as possible and putting maximum effort into rewarding people who tried to play positively and constructively rather than waste resources on those who ruined their playthroughs just to be able to continue to fly this ridiculous "everyone's game is different" banner.

There is a point where the line has to be drawn, and I think that's it.

Thing is,  if we do end up getting everyone who survives in ME3,then it furthers the  "Everyone's gameis different" ideal.  Which is a good thing.


Also, agreed.

[-D-C-D-]

Yeah, I think I was a bit too general on the "everyone's game is different" idea. I love that. I just really don't want Bioware being pressured into changing the game for people who actually worked against themselves, just to see what will happen, in order to continue to be able to say that the game is personal for everyone. It's not really fair.



Also, I agree with the OP, and really hope for as many in the ME2 squad to return as possible.

[PrinceLionheart]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Squad with no reason to leave :
Miranda,Jacob,Legion,Tali and Garrus

Tali and Legion could both report back to the Quarian Fleet and the Geth respectively.

When it comes to ME2 my stance is still firmly that they will not be playable. I can see them as guest party members like how Liara was in Lair of the Shadow Broker, but no they will not play a central role in the main plot.  Jacob, Miranda, Garrus, Thane, Jack, and Tali all have good shots at play more lengthy roles since they're romantic interests, but everyone else is simply getting cameos.

And really using the "Bioware wouldn't dare angry the fans" is a poorly constructed argument. 

[lovgreno]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

And really using the "Bioware wouldn't dare angry the fans" is a poorly constructed argument. 

How so?
Giving the fans what they want is what the entertainment industry is all about. This is especialy true when it comes to a franchise wich runs over several sequels like ME. Characters you recognise from before is perhaps the best marketing device ever for sequels.

[Bamboozalist]

Wittand25 wrote...
My point is that allowing all squad-members to return would require Bioware to create lots of content that many players do not have access to.Have the default safe an everybody survives scenario and making ME2 a totally pointless exercise because everyone who did not bother to play it gets a better starting position than most who import.

Once again 84% of squadmates survive the suicide mission so no, they are not making content that many people don't have access to, they're making content that the majority of people have access to. Bioware is keeping track of those statistics for a reason. On those statistics that's 8-9 of 10 or 10 of 12 squadmates surviving as a default which is not perfect so imports are not punished since it's based on the average for ME2 and if someone is only importing they're importing a hell of a lot more than the squad.

I don't know why you think so many people lose their team in ME2, they simply don't, sorry. Bioware made it so you have to actively make the blatantly wrong choices to get your team killed and between Kelly constantly bugging people about how X wants to talk to them and the fact that even the most casual speed run can get out with ~6 squadmates no one is being punished because guess what, if someone is importing a gimped squad, they want it.

So sorry, it's not content that many people won't have access to.

[flem1]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
Since all of the ME2 squad is potentially dead, none of them can be vital to the plot of ME3 like Liara was in ME1.  Any vital plot point will need to be carried out by another NPC or aprty member, and making that NPC/party member role fulfillable by a dead character will make it a generic plot point fulfillable by nearly anyone.
From the perspective of cost and writing, it is easier to make the vital party members or NPC's new characters that are universal, or those that are guaranteed to be alive. Sure, some of the ME2 squaddies can return, but they'd be of lesser value to the A plot by default, and ME3 should be almost entirely about the A plot.  New squaddies just make more sense,

Correct assumptions, totally incorrect conclusion.

The A plot of ME3 is the Reapers, and big resources/allied groups to fight a huge war.

NOT a squad for a commando strike.

So loyalty, personal stories are irrelevant.  However, they'll still be around to shoot stuff for you -- and advance any romance.  And Legion, Tali (and Kal'Reegar), and Wrex -- all killable -- will almost certainly have a huge impact on the degree and difficulty of success in acquiring certain allies, as well as their effectiveness.

New squadmates make no sense because the necessary introductions and background fill-in to keep them interesting are now *a total waste of time*.  Have to stick to the main plot -- talk to leaders of fleets and organizations, not individuals who can travel with you.

Modifié par flem1, 30 décembre 2010 - 04:46 .

[flem1]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

It's easier and more efficient to have a brand new party that every single player is exposed to, regardless of their prior game decisions or whether or not they're importing.

Wrong.  Wasting story time on more recruitment is hugely inefficient.

[xarthas2]

In fact, I think is a very interesting question how exactly plan Bioware to "reward" high sucess in the suicide mission. If they reward us in any way. I think the most popular idea is the Dragon Age Model ... [MINOR DA SPOILER!!!!]...  in addition at your choices (i.e. favour the Quarian - Geth peace) you are going to gain allies against the bad guys during ME3, and that task would be easier with the proper survivor (i.e. Tali with the Quarians). ...[END OF THE SPOILER]. But there are many other ways you can be rewarded.

The infamous twitt (from leading developer Chistina Norman: "Yes. RT @SirUlrichVL @truffle so I take it if I only have zaeed, kasumi and joker alive. That shep is in for a rough ride in ME3?") has supported the idea of some kind of survivor-based-reward, but i think that again this is highly speculative. I was reading some of the info Norman posted about ME2, and I have realized that she is in charge of the the more gaiming part of the developing (defining the clasess, the powers, that kind of stuff). So the twitt could be just related with this topic: if your survivors dont complement your Shepard, or you havent a good squad combination against Geth, ie, you are gonna suffer at some point.

Another toughts related with the thread...


1. Other interesting thing i have learned today from Norman writings (regarding Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC) is that the Liara character was as hard to create (if not more) as any other permanent squadmate in ME2. Although at least in part this was related with the Stasis Biotic Power, it made me wonder if the back-as-1-mission-squadmate is a really likely possibility for the ME2 team. I mean, i think that everyone prefers the permanent squadmate over the 1-mission-squad mate, so...

2. People tend to think that loyality status of each surviving character is gonna be one of the variables if ME2 squadmates are back in ME3. Im not so sure. I mean, I think that after the suicide mission you have gained some respect of any squad survivor (loyal or not). If that is the case, the variable-issue-nightmare-in-the-ME2-squad-is-back scenario could be smaller.

3. Although i would be pleased if i coud use my old ME2 squad in ME3, i recognize some truth in the "rival" arguments. I mean, it is true that if you dont activate Legion in ME2 you miss a lot of stuff, but it doesnt depend on a ME1 decission/fact. If Jack died in your ME2, your are not to be able to play the character in ME3

4 Anyone belives that the ME2 LIs are the most likely characters to return as squadmates in ME3? I mean, i think that Bioware is going to avoid asymetric situation where some ME2 LIs returns as squadmates and other dont(even if that implies to sacrify a better story) because thats the kind of thing that is gonna get mad some people. So all or none of them is my bet.

Modifié par xarthas2, 30 décembre 2010 - 05:14 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Yeah sure, just look the ME2 comebacks of Garrus and Tali:


Garrus:

I tried go for spectre again, didn't work out, so here I am.
=OR=
I tried go to back to C-Sec, didn't work out, so here I am.



Tali:

You gave me those Geth files, lol!
=OR=
[nothing]

That's great continuity, character development and what not.