232 réponses à ce sujet

[CandidCarnage]

@Firky
Aveline's concept art, the DA2 destiny trailer, and the newest trailer, where you see a white haired female soldier at 0:22 seconds with the same appearance again.

Edit: Also, I'd criticise Fenris and co in the same way, if the men were afflicted with the same problem. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on whether your cup is half empty or half full, they seem to have been designed differently. Their features are larger and seem to differ more from character to character (with regards to collation-- feature placement).

Modifié par CandidCarnage, 29 décembre 2010 - 12:12 .

[ankuu]

CandidCarnage wrote...

@Firky
Aveline's concept art, the DA2 destiny trailer, and the newest trailer, where you see a white haired female soldier at 0:22 seconds with the same appearance again.

Edit: Also, I'd criticise Fenris and co in the same way, if the men were afflicted with the same problem. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on whether your cup is half empty or half full, they seem to have been designed differently. Their features are larger and seem to differ more from character to character (with regards to collation-- feature placement).

Well Fenris and Varric are the only ones not "affected" by the chin problem you talk about. But Fenris has been announced quite recently (so from a better development stage) and Varric has gone thru a lot of changes to look how he looks. Carver (which is a man) has the chin problem but the pictures with him date back from a early stage so he might look a bit different now...

And it might depend on the angle too...FHawke looked like she had a huge chin in some pics but in others she looked perfectly normal. And i believe they are from close builts (if not the same).



[img]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:m_KRG0s58SSx9M:http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee369/SteGab1979/Fer%20de%20internets/mrs_Hawke.png&t=1[/img]

Modifié par ankuu, 29 décembre 2010 - 01:36 .

[Maria Caliban]

yukidama wrote...

Why does Aveline have to be made "prettier"? Meh.

Pretty face remodels annoy me, but what disturbs me is that many times 'pretty' means 'this grown woman now looks like a teenager.'

[Leonia]

Seagloom wrote...

This is something I could never relate to. I prefer taking characters as they come; imperfections and all. Changing them to fit one's ideal vision of beauty always felt strange. It is why I never bother with the redesigned mod for Origins. Making NPCs prettier is nice and all, but I see no reason for everyone to look like a runway model. It is not only unrealistic, but also boring.

That Aveline does not fit a typically modern conception of beauty is great in my eyes. How often do we see female characters like her as opposed to the wannabe starlet? Isabela complaints make even less sense. She looks fine in gameplay screenshots and has a stereotypically huge chest and bottom going already.

Hear, hear!

Just keep in mind we haven't seen screenshots from the latest build of the game yet so.. things will probably change a little bit.

Modifié par leonia42, 29 décembre 2010 - 02:26 .

[errant_knight]

Well, I think all the characters look odd--male and female. The OP isn't wrong that there's something strange about the proprtions of the in-game models, but it's not a female prettiness thing, because the males are also affected. It's just slightly less noticable because their larger facial features obscure it a bit more. I expect well have the same problem in the character creator.

[DA Trap Star]

I think Aveline is just fine, but Isabella's chin is definitely too big.

[uuuhcantthinkofaname]

ankuu wrote...

CandidCarnage wrote...

@Firky
Aveline's concept art, the DA2 destiny trailer, and the newest trailer, where you see a white haired female soldier at 0:22 seconds with the same appearance again.

Edit: Also, I'd criticise Fenris and co in the same way, if the men were afflicted with the same problem. Fortunately or unfortunately depending on whether your cup is half empty or half full, they seem to have been designed differently. Their features are larger and seem to differ more from character to character (with regards to collation-- feature placement).

Well Fenris and Varric are the only ones not "affected" by the chin problem you talk about. But Fenris has been announced quite recently (so from a better development stage) and Varric has gone thru a lot of changes to look how he looks. Carver (which is a man) has the chin problem but the pictures with him date back from a early stage so he might look a bit different now...

And it might depend on the angle too...FHawke looked like she had a huge chin in some pics but in others she looked perfectly normal. And i believe they are from close builts (if not the same).

I've always wondered what purpose that chest peice is meant to serve?
Is it like the hardcore guys version of a bib? does it catch crumbs?

[tmp7704]

Seagloom wrote...

This is something I could never relate to. I prefer taking characters as they come; imperfections and all. Changing them to fit one's ideal vision of beauty always felt strange. It is why I never bother with the redesigned mod for Origins. Making NPCs prettier is nice and all, but I see no reason for everyone to look like a runway model. It is not only unrealistic, but also boring.

There's different kinds of imperfections, though. One is something that can be considered intended "flaw" in the looks of character. But there's also flaws which are result of nothing else but technical errors or the artist's shortcomings, or simple mistakes.

As example of the latter consider the skin tones used for the dark skinned characters in DAO. They weren't exactly great, and so they are supposedly reworked/improved in DA2. Or some of the female characters which were given makeup intended for light skinned character but as the characters are dark skinned it results in some horrible blending of the eyeshadow and such.

Correcting this latter type of errors has little to do with "ideal vision of beauty", it's just fixing game bugs and improving it, like it's done in all other areas.

[YoziMaiden]

Hey, hey, don't be hating on butch girls.

[GodWood]

I personally want more realistic 'flaws' and imperfections.

If theres one thing thats immersion breaking its having every female companion look like a model.

[Seagloom]

tmp7704 wrote...
There's different kinds of imperfections, though. One is something that can be considered intended "flaw" in the looks of character. But there's also flaws which are result of nothing else but technical errors or the artist's shortcomings, or simple mistakes.

As example of the latter consider the skin tones used for the dark skinned characters in DAO. They weren't exactly great, and so they are supposedly reworked/improved in DA2. Or some of the female characters which were given makeup intended for light skinned character but as the characters are dark skinned it results in some horrible blending of the eyeshadow and such.

Correcting this latter type of errors has little to do with "ideal vision of beauty", it's just fixing game bugs and improving it, like it's done in all other areas.

Perhaps that may be the case with a small number of ancillary characters in Origins, but CandidCarnage's subjective argument is focused on flaws he sees with the portrayal of two specific female characters--not a technical shortcoming or artist's quirk.

Note that in his/her recent post male characters are excluded on the basis they were designed differently in a way that is not similarly displeasing. Also note that Bethany is conspicuously absent from critique when the original argument was that female DA2 characters are poorly designed and need to be corrected. If it was truly a question of artistic style, would not similar flaws crop up with other characters? At a minimum, should we not see the same criticism extended to Bethany, Cassandra, Flemeth, and Momma Hawke? What other conclusion am I expected to reach when Aveline and Isabela--the two characters most often lambasted on the basis of their appearance, are zeroed in on as representatives for all revealed DA2 women?

I am told the argument is artistic shortcomings, but what I am presented with between the lines is another story--hence my previous posts.

Modifié par Seagloom, 29 décembre 2010 - 05:15 .

[RavenStorm]

  Catherine Zeta Jones Exotic? She's Welsh ie: Native Briton and Irish correct? Meaning that many people also living in places like North and South America share similiar ancestory.

  Having said that: Penelope Cruz  is from Spain correct? We now know that people from what is now Eire, Scoti land, and Britannia come from the Iberian peninsula. 

  But though I don't have a problem with the way the characters look currently. I wouldn't mind if others looked like Jones & Cruz. (OT: Bioware please make an rpg based off Of Boudica and cast Jones as the lead)

Modifié par RavenStorm, 29 décembre 2010 - 05:28 .

[SandyWB]

I can't say that I've completely made my mind up either way, but I definately think there's merit to what the OP is saying.

About Isabella... In this thread Darkhour posted a revamp that I think illustrates quite well how Isabella's face could be improved.
http://img841.images.../newisabela.jpg

It's not about her being ugly in the original build, but her face not being porportionate to her head. The chin does seem too large, the lips a bit too small and the cheeks a bit too full cosidering her head and the rest of her body. It might be that some people don't see a problem with it, but I believe the revamp looks a whole lot more realistic. The original face just looks like the facial features have gravitated a bit too much toward the centre of the face, making the cheeks and chin stand out.

Aveline on the other hand. I don't think we've seen enough good pictures of her to really decide if she looks good or not. I said good, not pretty. Not asking for her to look like a modell mind you, but at lest you shouldn't cringe when you see a companion. Unless that's the desired effect of course (Spirit of Justice anyone?). Her concept art doesn't do her justice I'd wager. She looks like a warrior and that's cool, but in my mind she looks a bit too buch in the concept art... Like neanderthal butch. The screenshots however, make her look much better, so I'm not really worried about her.

So yeah, I don't think it's fair to start making accusations that the OP wants all female characters to look like models. There is something offputting about Isabella's face, and I don't think it was intentional from the developer's side to give her a unique look. I think especially if we're talking about love-interests there's nothing wrong with wanting them to actually look appealing. In the end it's the personality you remember and love, but looks are always a plus, just like in real life.

[Anarya]

I agree about the across-the-board facial proportion issues in the game, but it seems to be better in more recent materials so I'm not sure if it's been adjusted or what. I hope so.



But I think Aveline and Isabela are pretty as they are (though I would've given Isabela a stronger eyebrow personally). And besides, we haven't really gotten to know them yet. Personality influences your perception of other peoples' appearances anyway.

[Dave of Canada]

I tend to dislike redesigns, though that's just me. Can't ever play with the Leliana / Morrigan / Alistair / ect mods that change how they look, it always makes them look like they are eighteen or came off a catwalk.

[solstickan]

I really don't see anything wrong with Aveline. I love that she is muscular and isn't girly. Quite refreshing to see these days.

And I used to think Isabela's chin was disproportionately big, but seeing her in action has changed my mind. I think she looks perfectly fine. You're all putting too much focus on a picture of her from an awkward angle.

[SandyWB]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I tend to dislike redesigns, though that's just me. Can't ever play with the Leliana / Morrigan / Alistair / ect mods that change how they look, it always makes them look like they are eighteen or came off a catwalk.

Oh I agree, never would I change the looks of any of the companions in Origins, althought I think I downloaded a mod that toned down Morrigan's eyeshadow or made it more subtle at the edges at a later playthrough. Always kept the facial features, hairstyle, eyecolor and haircolor though. Wouldn't be the same if I changed it after the first playthrough. That's why I'm hoping Isabella and Aveline look good from the get-go.

[PrinceOfFallout13]

have you people met real life girls? some of them are like aveline and isabela



others are fat some skinny some have man jaws others have good proportions and changing them because they dont fit some mold is unhetical imo is a slap to the art designer and to real women who look like them i fear for the world when i hear people complain about others physical appearence

[GodWood]

Isabela from a less unflattering angle.







Ignore the blood.

[Ryzaki]

Personally I love redesigns...heck I think I redesigned every PC in DA with the exception of probably Duncan and Anora.



That said I'm shallow and if I'm playing a fantasy game and I don't want to be thinking how ugh someone looks. If Isabela can fight in that outfit everyone on the squad can look like a runway model.

[Anarya]

Dave of Canada wrote...

I tend to dislike redesigns, though that's just me. Can't ever play with the Leliana / Morrigan / Alistair / ect mods that change how they look, it always makes them look like they are eighteen or came off a catwalk.

I agree. There are some great redesigns out there but I don't like to change their appearances because it's part of who they are. I don't redesign people I know in real life, and the illusion that your companions are real people is appealing to me, so I like to keep them the way they are. The one exception is Alistair. I gave him longer hair and more stubble later on in my game because I thought it made sense after a year or two on the road, and was also reflective of his maturation as a character. 

[Anarya]

GodWood wrote...

Isabela from a less unflattering angle.



Ignore the blood.

I think she looks really good here and I'm no longer seeing the proportion issues I noticed earlier. Though I'd still make her eyebrows about 1.5-2x as thick as they are here. Not bushy, just not as thin.

[SandyWB]

have you people met real life girls? some of them are like aveline and isabela

others are fat some skinny some have man jaws others have good proportions and changing them because they dont fit some mold is unhetical imo is a slap to the art designer and to real women who look like them i fear for the world when i hear people complain about others physical appearence

Oh please, I'm so tired of this argument. Yes, we've met real girls. Some of us are even married/have girlfriends, so please, none of that "Have you people met real women?" It's just silly to throw that around.

And yes, obviously people look different, some have more prominent facial features than others. That's not saying we want 'ordinary' people in games or movies. It's all about fantasy, leaving the realm of the normal world for a while. Love interests should look good, not saying they should look like models, but they should at least be good looking. Either way, I don't think that people are complaining that Isabela looks ugly per say, it's more about her face looking disproportionate due to the things I stated in my previous post. It might just be the angle, but still, that shot of her doesn't make her look natural.

GodWood wrote...

Isabela from a less unflattering angle.



Ignore the blood.

That's more like it. Here Isabela's face looks a whole lot more proportionate. I hope this is what she looks like in the final game.

[Winter Wraith]

The OP is correct that Isabela did show a rather odd skull structure in that her features were too high on her face for a normal skull. The more recent shots show that to have been fixed. Isabela has changed quite significantly so I suspect most of the companions will undergo some changes as they are finalised.

uuuhcantthinkofaname wrote...
I've always wondered what purpose that chest peice is meant to serve?
Is it like the hardcore guys version of a bib? does it catch crumbs?

It is to make images of Hawke kissing Isabela as awkward as possible.

Modifié par Winter Wraith, 29 décembre 2010 - 06:42 .