78 réponses à ce sujet

[Angel-Shinkiro]

Everyday I come to these forums and almost if not everyday I hear people say that they either want a Me1 sense of exploration or that Me2 either had no exploration or was very bad, I just want to know what was either wrong in Me2 or so right in Me1 because in my opinion number 2 had was better.

So what is your feeling about exploration?

[Ahglock]

When just talking about exploration I think they both did it wrong. In ME1 they had big open spaces with nothing worth talking about to find, in ME2 they had a hallway to walk down at the end of which you found a prize(also worth pretty much nothing). Thew hallways at east were a bit more entertaining in that they put more crap in them, but still not much for exploration.



You need the ability to make wrong turns and something to discover in order for there to be good exploration. Neither of the MEs had both.

[Ragnarok521]

The Fallout games have some pretty good exploration. Large, open environments with unique landmarks and points of interest. What makes exploration so fun and rewarding is discovery, finding something new and unique or unexpected.  

Modifié par Ragnarok521, 29 décembre 2010 - 10:49 .

[Dominus]

Something Miyamoto-san described when talking about what inspired Legend of Zelda was the experiences he had in younger years exploring forests and caves - it was capturing the wonder of finding something amazing and new that no one else had probably seen before. Whether it's Bethesda's Elder Scrolls/Fallout, LoZ, AC, or any other variation, combining combat and exploration is a staple in the gaming industry, and for good reason.



"Good exploration" is like I said above - capturing the wonder of finding something unknown and amazing. In regards to how this would apply to ME3? I would personally like to see things that hearken back to ME1, but capture a better sense of variety in environmental design, and a more interesting atmosphere. A lot of the "oh wow" moments I remember from ME1 was seeing earth from landing on the moon, or seeing a meteor shower... I just wish the environments ON the planet were as interesting.

[upsettingshorts]

Something Bioware can't do without abandoning what makes their games good.

[Khayness]

I'd settle with Bring Down the Sky and Overlord-esque exploration.

Long enough to not overstay its welcome and an actual integral part of the story. AND FUN!

[LeonBrass]

exploration that directly links to the main plot! Enough with the meaningless side quest to collect Kr$$$ in order to make/buy more Kr***!

Something worth the trouble.. more like a true quest where we look for Prothean stuff to use against the reapers... and when we find it, it should be some kind of useful item or data not +1 medigel or $

[Encarmine]

^ this



ME1 exploration, 'lets have a moon buggy drive around' 'oh while were at it t make the mointains stupidly steep and everywhere'



'and when they do discover somthing, make it either a threasher mall, a geth trap or the same space hut over and over, thought somtimes make it an underground base'

[Angel-Shinkiro]

Ragnarok521 wrote...

The Fallout games have some pretty good exploration. Large, open environments with unique landmarks and points of interest. What makes exploration so fun and rewarding is discovery, finding something new and unique or unexpected.  

I just started playing Fallout 3 last night and the exploration that it had was what inspired me to make this thread.

[Dominus]

@Angel, Todd Howard and the rest of the dev team really learned a lot from the oblivion project and honed in on it when making fallout 3.



Having nothing but megaton available for fast travel allowed players to essentially wander around and discover for themselves the world around them, rather than teleport to the different cities in Elder Scrolls.



Being able to make your journey truly feel unique and shaped was a godsend to players a-many. It's refreshing to have a topic worth writing about - how long are people going to blabber on about ps3 graphics or some other nonsense? In other words, thanks

[TelexFerra]

More varied environments with more diverse points of interests. I'd like to see lakes and rivers and caves, not just mountain passes.



Why can't there be some planets that are sparsely colonized. There could be a really cool space western feel to a small town/spaceport in the middle of nowhere on a Garden world.

[Angel-Shinkiro]

@Dominus, you are right. Mass Effect's weakest point has probaly been its exploration and one of its strongest points has been its graphics, so I think we should concern ourselves on how to improve the exploration which needs some seious works.



Those anyone know and good space Sci-fi games that have a good exploration systems?

[Googlesaurus]

Good exploration is its own reward.

[a krogan]

Something alone the lines of overlord which i have recently played for the first time.
It made the mission feel more alive going from one play to another but i would of like more places where you could walk around. 

[Dominus]

"Does anyone know any good space Sci-fi games that have a good exploration system?"

Sci-Fi has done very well in the video game history, but it hasn't had the best exploration aspects, at least in most cases. If you're willing to count Starcraft, exploration is certainly an aspect that's in there, but it has a lack of the unknown when you already have what's essentially a box in the corner of the screen saying how big the "playing field" is.

Halo has been more successful in terms of exploration - remember the first moment of landing, grabbing a warthog, and taking it for a spin around an enormous ring of mass destruction? Their level design had a less linear take than something you might find in the original Half Life, Call of Duty, or other franchises that focus more on a specific experience instead of a more open area.

What does this boil down to? Sci-fi still has a lot of potential for exploration, still waiting in seclusion, seemingly untapped in the caverns of possibility. Perhaps someone should take up mining?

Modifié par DominusVita, 30 décembre 2010 - 01:16 .

[habitat 67]

I want a space game with great exploration as much as you guys but expecting it from Bioware for this series at least is kinda like wishing your Palomino was a Clydesdale.



I do think that another Obsidian/Bethesda collaboration could handle a Space open sandbox RPG quite well, if they were interested in such a thing.



Halo doesn't really have more exploration necessarily but it's sure got the epic vista thing down. One thing that I personally wish Mass Effect wold stop doing is adding all those obstructing layers of haze in their vistas. In Halo (and Morrowind/Fallout 3) you can see clearly for what seems like miles and miles and it is awesome. Then you get to actually visit what you see in the distance, even better.

[Bourne Endeavor]

Mass Effect 2's exploration would not have been so painfully monotonous if they had bothered to make the destinations riveting and alive. Traversing the barren waste of a wrecked dreadnought was intriguing but imagine if it has survives and you had to converse not only with the people to locate everyone but with either Joker or your squad to safely extract everyone?

Mass Effect's lifeless planets left little to the imagination however I felt connected when triggering an exchange with Major Kyle and discovering his plight. I was curious behind Lord Darius' motives and ready to lay down the law to those Cerberus scientists. Instead the N7 missions was one long silent run through a barrage of faceless mercs or absolutely nothing happened.

I was also dumbfounded we discovered a beacon/prothen relic in one mission that had no bearing on the plot in any capacity.

In essence while I do not necessarily require exploration to have plot necessity nor should every side mission be some elaborate conversation. It would be nice if even half possessed some substance and for the love of god can said conversation contain a solution that does not require my shooting stuff?

Overlord was a prime excellent of what side quest exploration should be. I offered an example above and than we have similar possibilities like Major Kyle. I would also fancy when traveling upon a planet's surface (because I damn well liked the Mako and doing this) that being ambushed once in a while would spark entertainment and display a sense of life to the planet.

Modifié par Bourne Endeavor, 30 décembre 2010 - 01:33 .

[BiancoAngelo7]

Bourne Endeavor wrote...

Mass Effect 2's exploration would not have been so painfully monotonous if they had bothered to make the destinations riveting and alive. Traversing the barren waste of a wrecked dreadnought was intriguing but imagine if it has survives and you had to converse not only with the people to locate everyone but with either Joker or your squad to safely extract everyone?

Mass Effect's lifeless planets left little to the imagination however I felt connected when triggering an exchange with Major Kyle and discovering his plight. I was curious behind Lord Darius' motives and ready to lay down the law to those Cerberus scientists. Instead the N7 missions was one long silent run through a barrage of faceless mercs or absolutely nothing happened.

I was also dumbfounded we discovered a beacon/prothen relic in one mission that had no bearing on the plot in any capacity.

In essence while I do not necessarily require exploration to have plot necessity nor should every side mission be some elaborate conversation. It would be nice if even half possessed some substance and for the love of god can said conversation contain a solution that does not require my shooting stuff?


Overlord was a prime excellent of what side quest exploration should be. I offered an example above and than we have similar possibilities like Major Kyle. I would also fancy when traveling upon a planet's surface (because I damn well liked the Mako and doing this) that being ambushed once in a while would spark entertainment and display a sense of life to the planet.

This is all true, also:




and then came ME2:




'Nuff said.


If Bioware had kept its promise of improving the vehicle exploration they would not have given us the half-as*ed vehicle missions we got with the Hammerhead.

They would have given us the hammerhead or mako or whatever, and then IMPROVED upon what they did in ME1, instead of trying to first replace it with planet scanning, and then with linear platforming levels with ZERO space exploration. Wherever you go is a lush garden world and if its not, then you stay inside the Hammerhead at all times.

In Me1 we got to go out the Mako, explore look at the AMAZING atmospheric vistas with stars, storms, comets etc.

Bioware has recently STARTED to go back in the right direction with the Overlord dlc, but even there, they still haven't let us exit the frigin hammerhead, have a vast map where we actually have to ARRIVE at where we need to go, not everything within 10 feet, and the atmosphere view is quite horrible.

I mean the skybox and land vista textures were basically huge blocks. Really ugly.

And the irony is that the stupid horrible Hammerhead robot VI voice or whatever actually says "organics may want to observe the pretty view" or something. It made me facepalm. Big time.

Edit:

Conclusion: Main point is, instead of build upon and embrace the amazing graphical spectacles we were treated to in ME1, instead of expand upon and improve planet exploration like they promised, instead of  increasing immersion, instead of giving us more options...they chose not to.

And that is a really really big part of why ME2 is a horrible sequel to ME1, but a good prequel to ME3. Cuz it's all about action, character interaction and story telling. Even though the story is about your squad, and barely anything about the Reapers, and what is about the Reapers is about as well written as my Sunday grocery shopping list. Example: ME2's final boss. Need I say more? I don't think so...

Modifié par BiancoAngelo7, 30 décembre 2010 - 02:51 .

[Ulzeraj]

Dude I totally loved those gourgeous skyboxes on the Mako exploration specially when it involved worlds orbiting a blue or red giant star.

[Schneidend]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...
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and then came ME2:

Except that pic of the Mako is one moment out of about the ten or fifteen minutes that it takes to drive around like a tourist on that planet. I don't consider that good exploration.

ME2, on the other hand, while scanning wasn't terribly exciting, at least if it was a landable planet there would be something to do there besides finding mummified salarians.

[Ragnarok521]

I didn't really mind the long drives. As long as the path to the destination wasn't completely blocked by steep mountains anyway. Gave me time to look around at the gorgeous skyline, contemplate my place in the universe, etc. Also helped reinforce a feeling of isolation and quiet tranquility save for the sounds of a cold blizzard beating against the hull of the Mako or the rumbling beneath the surface of a geologically unstable world. Each planet felt like a different place in the galaxy though that's just me, I can't speak for everyone else.

I feel that ME2 dumped you into the action too quickly in most cases, not enough time to acclimate yourself to the environment.  

Modifié par Ragnarok521, 30 décembre 2010 - 03:12 .

[BiancoAngelo7]

@Schneidend

Go play ME1 again. just do yourself the favor. Go relive all the ambushes, warlords, geth invasions, drug dealers, biotic terrorists, batarian extremists, asteroids falling into planets, fauna and wildlife, prothean ruins, squad banter, mines, vengeful failed terrorists, cerberus cells, thorian infested colonies, soldier bases under attack by the rachni *takes a breath* AND rogue VI's, out of control terran training bases, pirate outposts, turret and sniper fortified bases, mummified salarians, minerals, THRESHER MAWS, medallions, turian insignias, Asari records and last but not least, random loot drops through debris.

Then come back to me and tell me that hopping on one platform to another with the hammerhead is just SO COOoooool. Or that taking you shuttle to one of the ten "N7" missions with your squad on a planet that is just right for them to be safe while wearing their spandex (gasp what a shock...I wonder what we would do if a mission were on a volcano world? <_<) is soooo much more interesting than doing any of the things we did in ME1.

In ME1, we had great, great side quests as far as plot, feeling of immersion and graphics with the skyboxes and galaxy map.

In ME2, instead of building upon and refining these experiences, they cut them out entirely and replaced them with 120 second long "N7" missions.

Just think about that and tell me that you don't see anything wrong with that picture.


We all need to do ourselves a favor and look past the entertaining game that was ME2 and realize that we went from this in ME1:









To this in ME2:




file:///C:/Users/Angel/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-2.pngfile:///C:/Users/Angel/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot-3.png


Great. <_<

It is a sad sad fact, but one that we must face if we are to even HOPE that the devs realize what kind of a huge mistake/omission they made by gutting planet exploration and fix it for ME3.

All I know is that I have bought all the DLC's and played through ME2 in its entirety, and so far, I have not seen a single star, meteor shower, binary stars, NOTHING.

Before ME2 came out, I was expecting to be able to visit worlds where I would see all sorts of stuff in the sky like pulsars, quasars, black holes meteor showers you name it!

Instead the most beautiful map/skybox combo we get is when you go to the Normandy crash site.

There's something wrong with that fact....

Not to mention that it kills immersion, makes you wonder what they did to their graphics department and what kind of prospects there are for ME3.


When you play a game that came out a few years before the sequel and find yourself saying "oh yeah...this is so much better than in the sequel..." that's the red flag that lets you know something is wrong.


Edit: Not to mention the little things like in ME2 we get a ridiculous toy ship so Joker can apparently take up tap dancing, while in ME1 we had an amazingly beautiful and elegant and quick cut scene that was TRULY an interactive fleshed out loading screen of the Normandy in FTL speed to travel between systems.

Little things like that, spoke volumes about the drop in overall attention to detail and quality in exploration and immersion for ME2.

Modifié par BiancoAngelo7, 30 décembre 2010 - 03:39 .

[Dominus]

As fantastic as ME2 was, and is, it's a point well made - the side quests outside of loyalty didn't quite capture the same visual flair and immersive satisfaction...it looks great, but there was something special about specific moments like that in ME1's side questing.



...Mummified salarians? I must've missed a very amusing quest...

[BiancoAngelo7]

DominusVita wrote...

As fantastic as ME2 was, and is, it's a point well made - the side quests outside of loyalty didn't quite capture the same visual flair and immersive satisfaction...it looks great, but there was something special about specific moments like that in ME1's side questing.

...Mummified salarians? I must've missed a very amusing quest...

lol I can imagine Mordin saying something about that if he had been in ME1

[Atmosfear3]

I'm going out on a limb here and say that when most people say "I WANT MORE EXPLORATION", really what they are asking for is for the game to be larger in scope. Who really wants to go around trekking aimlessly on a planet? No, what they want is for the game's world to feel large through the perception of the environments. Overlord DLC did this, as did Lotsb's assaulting the ship sequence.



Exploration without purpose is a waste of time in a video game such as this. Leave that for the MMOs.